"Mass Casualty Event" in Las Vegas (1 Viewer)

[Widbil83]

Police have dramatically changed their account of how the Las Vegas massacre began on Oct. 1, revealing Monday that the gunman shot a hotel security guard six minutes before opening fire on a country music concert — raising new questions about why police weren’t able to pinpoint the gunman’s location sooner.

Officials had previously said that gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, Nev., shot Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos after Paddock had unleashed his deadly volley at the Route 91 Harvest Festival, an assault that began at 10:05 p.m. and left 58 people dead, with hundreds more injured.

They had credited Campos, who was shot in the leg, with stopping the 10-minute assault on the concert crowd by turning the gunman’s attention to the hotel hallway, where Campos was checking an alert for an open door in another guest’s room.

But Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday that Paddock shot Campos before his mass shooting — at 9:59 p.m. — and they now didn’t know why Paddock stopped his attack on the crowd.

Paddock, who had placed security cameras outside his room, shot Campos through the door of his suite, which was outfitted with a camera to survey the hallway, as was a room service cart parked outside. Police said Paddock fired 200 rounds into the hallway.

Investigators previously said that the security guard was shot after Paddock had already spent 10 minutes firing into the crowd of concertgoers gathered below the hotel.

In a timeline released last week, investigators said Paddock had stopped firing at the concert across the street at 10:15 p.m., and the first police officers arrived on the floor at 10:17 p.m. and encountered the wounded Campos at 10:18 p.m., who directed the officers to Paddock’s suite.

Police were not in a hurry to enter Paddock’s suite because the security guard’s arrival had halted the shooting, police implied in previously describing the timeline. Paddock had killed himself by the time officers entered the room, they said.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story.html

Somebody a few posts up touched on how the security guard who supposedly stopped the shooting was actually shot 6 minutes before the shooting now.  

 

[Henry Ford]

I agree that the lack of general information leaking is very, very odd. Not sure what it means ... might fast-forward six months and learn that investigators had to keep super-mum because they were following certain kinds of leads that would be easily compromised by the usual level of info leakage.

I also find the doubled claim that ISIS made to be really unusual, too. I understand that they've claimed some incidents in the past that they really weren't a part of, but IIRC it was always at least when a Muslim committed the act. This is the first time I can recall ISIS trying to claim home-grown American "crazy", as it were. Makes me think that while any association with ISIS would be oblique and probably indirect, it's not something that can dismissed out of hand.

They did the same thing with Jessie Javier Carlos in Manila, who was also neither Muslim nor a member of ISIS. 

 

[tommyboy]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story.html

Somebody a few posts up touched on how the security guard who supposedly stopped the shooting was actually shot 6 minutes before the shooting now.  

That makes no sense. No mention of shots fired reported in the hotel. No chatter on the police scanners that are published. The guard had a radio so assuming this is true which I doubt, 16 minutes go by before cops show up and shortly after paddock offs himself.  Why would he do that if he planned to escape?  Why would Campos not call cops/main security immediately after being shot? Why would it take 16 more minutes to get some more security/cops up the elevator which was working just fine? 

Either the sheriff made a gaffe or this whole story is based on BS

 

[parasaurolophus]

In the Steve Wynn interview, he said that a do not disturb sign on the door for 3 days should have triggered a response. Pure speculation still, but it is at least somewhat possible they have measures in place most people never see. The guard might not even be instructed to do anything about the door if he hears normal voices inside the room. 

I dont believe this. I go to vegas 10 times a year and we often just put the do not disturb sign on the whole trip. 

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I dont believe this. I go to vegas 10 times a year and we often just put the do not disturb sign on the whole trip. 

In this particular case--I totally agree with you.  Even if he had the "do not disturb" sign up--the dude ordered room service during his stay.  It wasn't like the dude checked in, put the do not disturb sign up and disappeared to the point where the hotel would be worried about his safety or whereabouts.  

 

[RokNRole]

Surprised anyone is buying the " official story".

We all know how well that has served us in the past.

 

[bagger]

That makes no sense. No mention of shots fired reported in the hotel. No chatter on the police scanners that are published. The guard had a radio so assuming this is true which I doubt, 16 minutes go by before cops show up and shortly after paddock offs himself.  Why would he do that if he planned to escape?  Why would Campos not call cops/main security immediately after being shot? Why would it take 16 more minutes to get some more security/cops up the elevator which was working just fine? 

Either the sheriff made a gaffe or this whole story is based on BS

Ok Columbo.

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

I would think shooting the security guard would have at least caused a few calls to the front desk.  The shooter could have just opened the door with a gun to his face, and shot him quietly inside the room.  Paddock must not have known if he was armed.

 

[T J]

In the Steve Wynn interview, he said that a do not disturb sign on the door for 3 days should have triggered a response. Pure speculation still, but it is at least somewhat possible they have measures in place most people never see. The guard might not even be instructed to do anything about the door if he hears normal voices inside the room. 

Regardless how long I'm in a room, one of the first things I do is put the do not disturb sign on the door. I just don't want anyone in my room and having access to my stuff. 

 

[soothsayer]

I am not a tinfoil hat guy but a question comes to mind...how is it possible that Paddock can fire 200+ rounds through a standard hotel room door and that door remains intact?

 

[KCitons]

I am not guy but a question comes to mind...how is it possible that Paddock can fire 200+ rounds through a standard hotel room door and that door remains intact?

All the bullets went through the same hole?

 

[Billy Bats]

I am not guy but a question comes to mind...how is it possible that Paddock can fire 200+ rounds through a standard hotel room door and that door remains intact?

I’ve seen a layout of that suite where the second room is actually an adjoining room with its own entrance if not rented along with the corner suite. Maybe he shot him through the other door if that was the setup?  

Here’s the possible layout I seen.

 

[jplvr]

I am not guy but a question comes to mind...how is it possible that Paddock can fire 200+ rounds through a standard hotel room door and that door remains intact?

So there are 2 doors to that room.  One door, miracle I know, doesn't look to have any bullet holes in it.  The other door, only a fifth of which is left, has a few bullet holes in it.  So the only door with any bullet holes in any picture is mostly missing, and you're wondering where the extra bullet holes are?

 

[jplvr]

I’ve seen a layout of that suite where the second room is actually an adjoining room with its own entrance if not rented along with the corner suite. Maybe he shot him through the other door if that was the setup?  

Here’s the possible layout I seen.

That door had the cart in front of it and had no bullet holes.

The strange part about that room is there's an Aussie guy who claims he was staying in room 32-134, which you can clearly see in the picture with the cart.  I think he's just mistaken, personally.

 

[beer 30]

With the revision of the timeline it makes me think we have no idea wtf happened other than 58 people lost their lives and almost 600 were injured.

 

[jamny]

Has anyone seen an interview with the security guard yet?

 

[The General]

I was on sabbatical during this horrific event. Not reading 28 pages.

Please tell me the conspiracy crowd is leaving this alone.

 

[IC FBGCav]

couple things.   yes its disgusting and inhuman  and I haven't begun to stop grieving over it

however:   1) we're lucky he was not good with guns.  Could have easily killed hundreds.   Guy fired of 2000-3000 rounds in 10 minutes and landed about 2% or so.  This could have been much much worse.

2) buying 33 guns in a year is a pretty big red flag for me

3) his GF seems to know next to nothing which I find hard to believe.    Doesn't add up

4) thank goodness the guard and LE showed up fairly quickly and apparently forced his hand and made him off himself.   Given an hour or so uninterrupted, could have done far more damage.

5) if you believe in hell, and I do,  thank goodness he's rotting there currently.    Good riddance

Why would the devil hate this guy?  He's his #1 fan don't you think?

 

[El Floppo]

I was on sabbatical during this horrific event. Not reading 28 pages.

Please tell me the conspiracy crowd is leaving this alone.

sure.... the conspiracy crowd is leaving this alone.*

*

Spoiler

but... this guy travelled to places- even the middle east. add that to owning guns, and dunno... would be hard NOT to come to the conclusion that there are larger forces at work here. who the hell travels AND owns guns?! 


plus... nobody's taken fingerprints from the guns yet or at least reported it- so it's likely that means he had accomplices. 

speaking of accomplices- how did he die? suicide? no way. VERY likely a team of covert ops people killed him elsewhere while manning all the guns themselves and then dumped his body there. it stands to reason.

speaking of reason... you see those curtains!?? they were blowing outside the windows? common sign-call of ISIS agents.

speaking of ISIS agents... two windows got shot out!! no way one guy could do that. 

so...

travelled, owned guns, had a big room with curtains that blow outside... and was a highroller making money playing video poker?! IMPOSSIBLE THAT THERE"S NOT MORE THAT MEETS THE EYE HERE. ANYBODY COULD/SHOULD SEE IT. THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL.

and speaking of wall!... how could he shoot 200 rounds through the...

my brain hurts just typing this. it hurts and is sad just typing this crap.

 

[Tiger Fan]

Has anyone seen an interview with the security guard yet?

I think he's hiding behind union lawyers

 

[jamny]

Although it looks like the security guard now didn't force Paddock to shoot himself, he still probably saved a lot of live by forcing him to rush the start of the massacre and not having as much time to setup.

 

[falguy]

Two things I can't wrap my head around from the latest altered timeline.

Lombardo also revised the date on which police believe Paddock checked into Mandalay Bay. While initially they said he had checked in on Sept. 28, three days before the shooting, they now believe he checked in on Sept. 25.

"They now believe"? How could that not know for certain? You check in a hotel and it's in their system. How could you have "believed" it was a different day 3 days later? Did he check in under an assumed name? (not his gf)?

11:20 p.m.: Officers enter the room. They see Paddock on the ground and a second door that could not be accessed from their position.

11:27 p.m.: A second breach is set off, allowing officers to enter the second room. Officers quickly realize there is no one else in the rooms and announce over the radio that the suspect is down.

Why wouldn't they be able to just walk into the adjoining room? He had broken a window in there, no? Did he be sure to lock the door and throw away the key before offing himself? Why wouldn't the door be wide open?

 

[ArbyMelt]

Two things I can't wrap my head around from the latest altered timeline.

Lombardo also revised the date on which police believe Paddock checked into Mandalay Bay. While initially they said he had checked in on Sept. 28, three days before the shooting, they now believe he checked in on Sept. 25.

"They now believe"? How could that not know for certain? You check in a hotel and it's in their system. How could you have "believed" it was a different day 3 days later? Did he check in under an assumed name? (not his gf)?

11:20 p.m.: Officers enter the room. They see Paddock on the ground and a second door that could not be accessed from their position.

11:27 p.m.: A second breach is set off, allowing officers to enter the second room. Officers quickly realize there is no one else in the rooms and announce over the radio that the suspect is down.

Why wouldn't they be able to just walk into the adjoining room? He had broken a window in there, no? Did he be sure to lock the door and throw away the key before offing himself? Why wouldn't the door be wide open?

There was a screenshot from an employee of the Mandalay Bay reservation system showing 9/25, as well as a room service order showing the earlier date. That was out there 3-4 days ago. Its almost like the FBI doesn't want anyone to know he checked in earlier for some reason. But they got exposed on it, so admitted it. 

 

[Doug B]

I agree that the lack of general information leaking is very, very odd. Not sure what it means ... might fast-forward six months and learn that investigators had to keep super-mum because they were following certain kinds of leads that would be easily compromised by the usual level of info leakage.

I also find the doubled claim that ISIS made to be really unusual, too. I understand that they've claimed some incidents in the past that they really weren't a part of, but IIRC it was always at least when a Muslim committed the act. This is the first time I can recall ISIS trying to claim home-grown American "crazy", as it were. Makes me think that while any association with ISIS would be oblique and probably indirect, it's not something that can dismissed out of hand.

They did the same thing with Jessie Javier Carlos in Manila, who was also neither Muslim nor a member of ISIS. 

Here's a good article (NPR transcript) about what ISIS is up to when they take responsibility for mass killings.
 

MCEVERS: So first, just tell us, what did the Amaq News Agency - that's the ISIS news outlet - actually say about the Vegas attack?

CALLIMACHI: They called the shooter a soldier of the Islamic State, which is their typical lingo for anybody who carries out an act in their name. And they said that he was responding to calls to target the coalition. It suggests that it's an inspired attack as opposed to one that is directed by the group from Iraq or Syria.

MCEVERS: Did they have any evidence to support the claim?

CALLIMACHI: No. But the thing to keep in mind is contrary to public perception, ISIS has now made dozens and dozens of such claims in the West and the majority of them have turned out to be true.

MCEVERS: Have there been any instances when they've made a claim like this and it's turned out to be false?

CALLIMACHI: There have been a couple. Specifically in the last six months, I'd say, there have been two. One was a few weeks ago. It was a claim that they had placed a bomb at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris. It turned out to be false. And the second one was a claim for an attack at a casino in Manila in the Philippines which was earlier in the summer. Both of those have turned out to not be true.

MCEVERS: So why then would ISIS make such a false claim?

CALLIMACHI: We don't know for sure. What's clear in their messaging is ISIS is really bearing down on this claim on Las Vegas. They didn't just make it on the Amaq News Agency. They then made it on Nashir, which is one of their official channels. They put out a celebratory video that showed clips from the press conference that followed the carnage in Las Vegas. So they're really hyping it as if this is them. And that's where many of the analysts and people like myself who are studying this group are somewhat confused. It's unlike them to insist to this extent on something that they are not linked to. And yet up to now everything points to this not being an ISIS attack.

MCEVERS: Right. And let's talk about why everything points to this not being an ISIS attack, right? I mean, this man, Stephen Paddock, he was 64 years old. I mean, he's not your typical ISIS soldier, right?

CALLIMACHI: Right. When I woke up yesterday morning and I saw that ISIS had claimed it I, you know, assumed that this was going to be a younger man who had a history of radicalization. As soon as I learned that he was 64, white male, basically a retiree, my own sense of skepticism went up. If this man turns out to have done this on behalf of ISIS, he would literally be the oldest ISIS recruit in America by nearly a decade.

MCEVERS: If this turns out to not be an ISIS-related attack in any way, does that signal something about ISIS, that this is a group that's desperate?

CALLIMACHI: I think it would, you know, blow a very big hole in their credibility with people like me, people that have been watching them carefully for years now...

MCEVERS: Right, with their own supporters, not just with people like you and other terrorism watchers.

CALLIMACHI: This is the interesting part. So already you can see on their channels - I saw it last night and early this morning - they're trying to paint the pushback from the FBI as the American government leading a cover-up and the media is complicit in that.

But that said, the cracks are also starting to show because last night I was - shared a chat between several ISIS members. And one ISIS follower went into the chat room and very earnestly, you know, just said to them, is there any proof that this guy was, you know, a soldier of the Islamic State? How can we be sure? And the moderator of that chat room snaps back. And he said, well, if you don't believe the Muslims, then you might as well go and try to open his heart yourself.

 

[the moops]

There was a screenshot from an employee of the Mandalay Bay reservation system showing 9/25, as well as a room service order showing the earlier date. That was out there 3-4 days ago. Its almost like the FBI doesn't want anyone to know he checked in earlier for some reason. But they got exposed on it, so admitted it. 

 

[Wingnut]

Well this just makes less and less sense as time goes on.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Why wouldn't they be able to just walk into the adjoining room? He had broken a window in there, no? Did he be sure to lock the door and throw away the key before offing himself? Why wouldn't the door be wide open?

Maybe he left that room via hallway and entered other room with a key

 

[Billy Bats]

That door had the cart in front of it and had no bullet holes.

Just looked up the pic, hadn’t seen it before. So yeah that kills my thought. They said over 200 rounds strafed the hallway, they all go through the keyhole? Wish we could see pics of the damaged walls if he didn’t fire through a door. With the rounds he was firing he had to have blasted the walls out pretty good. 

 

[jplvr]

Just looked up the pic, hadn’t seen it before. So yeah that kills my thought. They said over 200 rounds strafed the hallway, they all go through the keyhole? Wish we could see pics of the damaged walls if he didn’t fire through a door. With the rounds he was firing he had to have blasted the walls out pretty good. 

It's hard to believe that with the double doors shown in one pick, the one which had the rifle on the floor with the bipod, that no bullets went through the door which wasn't blown apart.  Still, police blew the door with bullet holes, and from the camera angle, the other door was relatively in tact.  But we do know there were bullet holes in the left door, and that's the one where about 4/5 of it is missing.  Also, the sheriff didn't count every bullet hole in the door, and there's a chance he got the number wrong in some fashion.

Some people, not that I've seen it here, are also worried about when he did the firing in the hallway.  There's an analysis of the taxi driver video where a guy breaks down the audio while also using Google 3D to approximate her position during filming.  He's analyzing gun shots, obvious echoes, and at that time, an "echo" which had no gunfire.  Well, now that we know he had a reason to shoot into the hallway from the beginning, the "echo" with no gunfire is possibly the sound of him turning around to strafe the hallway.  I've also wondered why people were only counting 60 shots here and 80 shots there from videos at the concert, considering this guy had 100 round magazines.  Now, besides gun jams, it's at least reasonable to assume he would fire at the crowd and then into the hallway as well.  For all he knew, his clock started when the guard got shot, expecting police to come looking for him first.  It was 20 minutes later that he offed himself because we know that when cops first arrived and saw the guard, they no longer heard gunfire.

To a question above, I think it's at least plausible that the door between 134 and 135 closed behind him at some point with an autolocking door.  Along with him dying slowly, it's one of my biggest hopes.

 

[culdeus]

I'm totally lost now.  I don't really have the energy to re-sort all this new stuff out.  

I trust in the FBI to act in good faith and work to close this case out as much as can be done given the scope here.

:scope:

 

[Donkey Derp]

Take it for what it's worth, but a guy on a city-data forum said they had a similar thing last year when a 30 year old CA felon was caught with a rifle and drilling through the glass in early 2016.

He created a thread about the MB security union back in 2016 and it's not Reddit or 4chan which makes it more likely he is telling the truth imo

 

[Weebs210]

I'm so confused about the time line now.

 

[tommyboy]

Makes zero sense

 

[eoMMan]

How can this not be al kida?

 

[Donkey Derp]

Now the MB owner is disputing the timeline.  wtf

 

[GoBirds]

This is disturbing, feels like they don’t want to disclose how poorly it was handled. Hope I’m wrong but if a security guard is shot police need to be on the way ASAP. Just isn’t adding up. 

 

[jplvr]

This is disturbing, feels like they don’t want to disclose how poorly it was handled. Hope I’m wrong but if a security guard is shot police need to be on the way ASAP. Just isn’t adding up. 

Just some timeline stuff:

Before 9:59, we now know the security guard, Campos was called to the floor to check on the stairwell door which was secured shut by Paddock.  He called (radioed, I don't know) maintenance, who started to come down to the 32nd floor.  He then heard drilling and approached Paddock's room in some fashion.

9:59, Campos was shot.  We don't know if it was with one shot, like the revolver, or a volley from one of the ARs down the hall.

Between 9:59 and 10x (I'm guessing right at 10:05, when Paddock started firing on the crowd), the maintenance worker arrived to the 32nd floor, never hearing nor hearing of a gunshot to this point.  He walked 1/3 of the way down the hall before he found Campos, already shot, and Campos alerted him to take cover.

10:XX? Before he could take cover, Paddock started firing.  At first no shots were coming into the hallway, but then they did.  The maintenance worker took cover, "something" hit him in the back, but he wasn't shot, and he waited out a "relentless" volley.  When the shooting stopped, he collected Campos and they took cover back towards the elevators and away from the room before Paddock started firing again.

10:17 The firing stopped

10:19 cops show up and they start clearing the floor.

----

I've just been arguing with some people about this earlier in the day, and that's the best timeline I have for things we don't have exact time stamps for.  What we don't know is whether or not Campos still had his radio or phone after he got shot.  We know he called maintenance before being shot.  We know he took shelter in a doorway of the hall after getting shot.  We don't really know if he radioed anyone in between or after reaching safety.  The only released recording there is of a "shots fired" report from that hallway is the maintenance guy's call which definitively happened after 10:05.  Did Campos lose his phone or radio?  Did he have to call dispatch for the hotel who then informed the maintenance guy, or did the maintenance guy hear Campos over a radio himself, alerting him to go to the 32nd floor?  If the latter, I'm guessing Campos lost his radio after being shot and while scrambling to the safety of a doorway.

These are two articles which helped me out today.

A guy from the Sheriff's department contributed to this story, and it breaks down why Campos was there and that he went to Paddock's doorway to check out drilling noises.

https://knpr.org/knpr/2017-10/questions-still-abound-more-week-after-las-vegas-shooting

This has the interview NBC did with the maintenance guy, along with a write up:

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/las-vegas-shooting-hotel-worker-narrowly-escaped-gunman-s-rampage-n809726

 

[jplvr]

Now the MB owner is disputing the timeline.  wtf

And yeah, there's this, but lawsuits have started to be filed.  I didn't look to see if any of them implicated Mandalay Bay, but if people think that they had a radio call of shots fired 6 minutes before the police knew, then they might have some 'splainin to do.  I think it's possible they didn't hear from either Campos or the maintenance guy, Schuck, until after 10:05, when Paddock had already started firing into the crowd.  The only gunshot anyone on the floor may have heard is the one which hit Campos, and there has been at least one report which suggested that was a single shot or at least not a huge barrage from a full, 100 clip AR.

Edit: Yeah, of course Mandalay Bay is a defendant:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/11/us/las-vegas-shooting-lawsuit/index.html

 

[jamny]

What was the estimated time when Paddock broke the glass? Was the first round of shooting that we hear on the video the shots at Campos and the maintenance guy or at the crowd? Would you have been able to hear the shooting in the hallway from the event if the glass was already broken?

 

[tommyboy]

story went from unbelievably horrible to just plain strange

 

[dschuler]

He also screwed metal plates on the stairwells to block them.  Haven’t seen a picture yet, no video evidence, no one heard him do it, no one noticed it.  

 

[need2know]

He also screwed metal plates on the stairwells to block them.  Haven’t seen a picture yet, no video evidence, no one heard him do it, no one noticed it.  

How did he get big metal plates in the hotel?

 

[Henry Ford]

How did he get big metal plates in the hotel?

Why would they have to be big?

 

[need2know]

Why would they have to be big?

Yeah Good point

 

[Joe T]

Why would they have to be metal???

 

[jplvr]

Why would they have to be metal???

What if they never tell us?

 

[parasaurolophus]

Situation just went from bad to worse. We dont even know exactly what happened yet and lawsuits are filed. Wonder if they needed stanchions for all the attorneys lining up at the hospitals. 

 

[dschuler]

Why would they have to be metal???

Even ABC news says it was metal.  The first press conference reporters asked if it was wielded with metal plates because of how much resistance there was in opening the doors as they couldn’t break them open like a lock on a door.  They ended up prying it opening with likely a crow bar.

I’m telling you, the story is just now changing because of lawsuits.  Too much technology in Las Vegas to get these BS answers.  

Another question is the timeline still does not make any sense.  By all reports, he fires 200 rounds through room door when the security guard was supposedly at the door and hits him one time out of 200!  Yet, the second suite door they keep showing images of does not have one hole in it, which is possible if fired at close range; however, takes me back to the guard was only hit one time in the leg from close range from shots that were likely fired at center mass height. Next, this all now occurred 6 minutes prior to the assault on the crowd. Even with a couple minutes to get 911 dispatch on the phone, police did not arrive on 32nd floor for 12 minutes after shooting on crowd started.  This means 18 minutes after first shots fired on security guard, at which point the gunman had apparently already committed suicide?  And still not any surveillance video of him entering casino with enough bags to have carried his arsenal up to his room, and not one bellhop has come forward to say they helped him with all these bags?

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Well, the lawsuits may bring light to a lot of the information that is being withheld?   Seems that the casino may have wanted to get a headstart on paying some of the hospital bills if needed to stop the lawsuits from starting.  I bet a lot of these people don't have insurance and can't even imagine how high their medical bills will end up costing.  

 

[dschuler]

In the Steve Wynn interview, he said that a do not disturb sign on the door for 3 days should have triggered a response. Pure speculation still, but it is at least somewhat possible they have measures in place most people never see. The guard might not even be instructed to do anything about the door if he hears normal voices inside the room. 

Actually Steve Wynn said 12 hours should have triggered an investigation. This is a suite, not just a room and a nice one at that.  Lots of money and revenue tied into these, they don’t leave them vacate even with a do not disturb. 

About 2:35 into video