Non-horrible Sandusky thread to discuss PSU sanctions (2 Viewers)

[Ministry of Pain]

My new favorite thread, way to go Premier.

 

[CrossEyed]

So, no death penalty, but they are going to be housed on death row and taken into the chamber once a week for 5 years and hooked up but not injected just to make a point.

A point that desperately needed to be made, IMO.

Does this satisfy your bloodlust?

This isn't about me. But based on your posts here I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

Wow, someone posted something negative about IB? Yeah, this place is swirling the ####ter.

Apparently you missed the rest of the conversation.

 

[beer 302]

I hadn't put two and two together, but vacating the wins removes JoePa's status as the all time winningest coach. Wow.

Yeah this seems to me like not keeping score. Everyone knows who won we are just pretending. Same thing here.

Not at all, this is how you sanction a dead guy. Very significant.

So who won the 2010 Ohio State-Penn State game?

Nobody, L-L

 

[Maude]

I think the fact PSU has already agreed to the sanctions should quiet the "absurd" snarky comments. To my mind there's really no penalty too severe, and the only reason I've heard against laying down the hammer was that it would create undue harm to the existing student athletes. By letting them leave without NCAA restriction and/or maintaining their scholarships without playing, I think the NCAA has effectively addressed that concern.

I'm not sure I quite understand vacating the wins -- but I've never understood going back and removing wins. Everyone remembers the games as they happened, and it's not like those changes are going to have an impact on the kids who played in the games or the career trajectories of the coaches involved.

Strongly disagree. PSU fans are furious with those who knew and were silent...many are even coming around to blast Paterno. Sanctions like this punish every person, every fan, every alum when in the end, only a HANDFUL of people knew and kept silent.

People need heros...people need role models to look up to. Paterno was held up by EVERYONE...not just PSU...as a hero and role model. It is unreasonable unconscionable to punish every person associated with PSU because of the illegal actions of a few....and it's even more so to do so in this way when those actions provided minimal assistance to the football program.

I understand the outrage...but this punishment is over the top absurd. It's punishing the wrong (#($& people.

No it isn't.

 

[koby925]

BTW, schools who take PSU transfers can go over their scholarship limit to accommodate them. They really went out of their way to not punish current players any more than necessary.

Good move

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Big Ten Conference presser at 11 AM est

 

[CrossEyed]

Big Ten Conference presser at 11 AM est

Yeah, don't think that they might not add some additional sanctions on top of this. Maybe no tv or no tv money?

 

[roadkill1292]

I'm not sure I quite understand vacating the wins -- but I've never understood going back and removing wins.

I think this is the biggest slap in the face to the Penn Stage program and Joe Pa's legacy. Even if the NCAA gave Penn State the death penalty, and said they could never play football again, at least there "legendary coach" had the most wins in NCAA history. Now his legacy is tarnished and the Penn Stage fans cannot say this anymore. It's part of erasing the paintings and tearing down the statue. It is destroying the legacy of a once great coach.

People who think this kind of stuff is important are dumb.

 

[Arizona Ron]

BTW, schools who take PSU transfers can go over their scholarship limit to accommodate them. They really went out of their way to not punish current players any more than necessary.

Good move

I didn't see this. This was my concern but it seems they've already handled it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

How are these in any way absurd? If anything, these are wholly and completely inadequate and the NCAA really chickened out here.USC got basically 3 years of probation (3 years of reduced scholarships, 2 year post season ban) for putting an athlete's parents up in a nice house. 11 years of covering up child rape so you could go on making money is worth one more year than that? What a joke.

USC violated NCAA rules and therefore got punished by the NCAA. PSU did not actually violate any NCAA rules. That's why some of us think it's absurd that they're facing NCAA sanctions.

This needed to be something that scared all universities into realizing that football isn't more important than doing what's right.

Having senior administrators serve prison time doesn't accomplish this?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I would like to see Penn State vacate the 1986 season as well.

 

[wadegarrett]

So who won the 2010 Ohio State-Penn State game?

If this is your concern, you're part of the problem. Who cares?

Settle down Reverend. Just a lighthearted jab at the NCAA.

 

[GeauxTigers]

So what would keep a wealthy booster from paying for football scholarships until the sanctions are over. So basically Penn State just received a 4 year bowl ban. Wins? Who gives a #### about them? Paternity family? Whoopdeedo!

Pretty sure you can't have privately funded athletic scholarships.

That doesn't mean they don't happen. If a great athlete wants to go to PSU but they don't have the scholarship for him, something tells me he will have his school paid for in the form of anonymous cash in his mailbox.

LOL...you really think Penn State will try something like this after all that is going on here? If they got caught, they would definitely get the death penalty. I'm thinking Penn State will be the cleanest program in the country for the foreseeable future.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

All those wins forfeited, that would mean that Bobby Bowden moves ahead of Paterno for all time wins, right?

 

[renesauz]

Long time PSU fans and Alum are hurt too, guys.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

All those wins forfeited, that would mean that Bobby Bowden moves ahead of Paterno for all time wins, right?

Welcome to two pages ago.

 

[roadkill1292]

All those wins forfeited, that would mean that Bobby Bowden moves ahead of Paterno for all time wins, right?

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Sure Penn State will have a few terrible seasons, but at least they'll get a high pick in the draft.

 

[GeauxTigers]

So who won the 2010 Ohio State-Penn State game?

If this is your concern, you're part of the problem. Who cares?

For a Christian, you sure do have alot of anger built up inside of you and are not forgiving. Penn State is trying to change and become a better program and give money to charity for abused kids from the money they make from football.

 

[Jason Wood]

The argument that this punishment hurts many others and, thus, shouldn't be allowed holds zero water for me. Why? Because any punishment has similar consequences. When the NCAA levies major sanctions on other programs, it hurts the entire university, its student body, and the alumni. That's the nature of committing a punishable act, it has consequences that extend beyond your own person. Don't blame the NCAA for punishing others, blame Paterno and the other school power brokers -- THEY were the ones who caused this. How is that lost on people?

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

All those wins forfeited, that would mean that Bobby Bowden moves ahead of Paterno for all time wins, right?

 

[Arizona Ron]

Sure Penn State will have a few terrible seasons, but at least they'll get a high pick in the draft.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I was listening to this on the radio so not sure who made this comment but basically he said if Penn State had been more collaborative/open during the past year we would not be here today. So basically the timing (announced now and not later) and severity of the penalties is because Penn State has not been cooperating with the NCAA instead of what they were being penalized for?

 

[koby925]

Taking away wins keeps the focus on Joepa and his tranished legacy rather than keeping the focus where it should be.

 

[Maude]

All those wins forfeited, that would mean that Bobby Bowden moves ahead of Paterno for all time wins, right?

Welcome to two pages ago.

Pizza math wizard... takes him a little longer to grasp the obvious.

 

[BigJohn]

So who won the 2010 Ohio State-Penn State game?

They'll give it to Indiana.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

USC violated NCAA rules and therefore got punished by the NCAA. PSU did not actually violate any NCAA rules. That's why some of us think it's absurd that they're facing NCAA sanctions.

Assuming that the NCAA president and the other guy didn't lie - Every Division 1 member (at least) of the NCAA disagrees with you.

 

[Fat Nick]

I'm not sure I quite understand vacating the wins -- but I've never understood going back and removing wins.

I've never understood this for matters beyond cheating. If you use performance enhancing drugs, OK, fine, maybe you wouldn't have won the game. If you payed recruits, OK, fine, maybe you wouldn't have won the game...but for things like this, gambling, etc...it's an off the field issue. I don't get the removal of wins. It's just sort of the NCAA's way of rewriting their own record books. And before everyone jumps on this post, NO, I'm not saying that enabling a child molester is on par with gambling. I'm saying that there is a difference between on the field, competition altering infractions, and off the field morality issues that have no direct impact on the outcome of a sporting event.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Assuming there is a lot of pride by Penn State alumni and wanting to rebuild the program as fast as possible, seems there will be a lot of academic scholarships established by alumni for students excelling in athletics?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

... Penn State is trying to change and become a better program ...

Which is why they aren't disputing any of this. The current group received high praise several times during the press conference.

 

[Arizona Ron]

Taking away wins keeps the focus on Joepa and his tranished legacy rather than keeping the focus where it should be.

You're kidding, right?

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

So which Division 1 coaches are already in Pennsylvania trying to steal away scholarship players?

 

[Slapdash]

Vacating wins is the dumbest punishment in the NCAA's arsenal IMO. Everyone knows who won those games.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

loss of those scholarships>>>>>>>>>>death penalty imo

they are fd for a good 10 years now (at least).

 

[timschochet]

Christo, who is a lawyer, has made the assertion that had Penn State chosen to challenge this in court, they would have won, since he is confident that the NCAA does not have the legal power to invoke sanctions in this instance.

Curious as to whether anyone agrees with this.

 

[Maude]

Vacating wins is the dumbest punishment in the NCAA's arsenal IMO. Everyone knows who won those games.

Seriously??? You can't see the point of this?

 

[Godsbrother]

Am I the only one that thinks the punishment was fair?

 

[netnalp]

Will they remain in The Big Ten or get replaced by a competitive team?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The argument that this punishment hurts many others and, thus, shouldn't be allowed holds zero water for me. Why? Because any punishment has similar consequences. When the NCAA levies major sanctions on other programs, it hurts the entire university, its student body, and the alumni. That's the nature of committing a punishable act, it has consequences that extend beyond your own person. Don't blame the NCAA for punishing others, blame Paterno and the other school power brokers -- THEY were the ones who caused this. How is that lost on people?

I have tried to feel some compassion for the players on the team who had nothing to do with this, players over the last 20 years who had zero to do with this, I am glad the university is going to allow the players to leave that want to go and also allowing other universities to go over the number of scholarships to help the players. The $60M fine...the Univ of Miami works on $100m endowments as do a lot of others. Miami has repeated that process several times over the years, they have raised so much money...and Miami does not have near the number of graduates that Penn State has, not near the number of alumni, so when you hear $60m, it's a lot of money but the University won't go under from that type of fine, not even close.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Am I the only one that thinks the punishment was fair?

no

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Christo, who is a lawyer, has made the assertion that had Penn State chosen to challenge this in court, they would have won, since he is confident that the NCAA does not have the legal power to invoke sanctions in this instance.Curious as to whether anyone agrees with this.

I don't believe Penn State is going to fight over any of the sanctions, it's not in their best interest right now.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Does vacating games affect performance based contracts for the coaching staff or I guess it may depend on the actual contract terms?

 

[timschochet]

Don't know if this was mentioned, but vacate is not the same as forfeit. So this does not change the win total for other teams. Nobody won those games.

 

[Jason Wood]

As I understand it both the NCAA Executive Committee and Division I Board of Directors granted Mark Emmert authority to act in this manner, unanimously.

Doesn't sound like Emmert is overstepping his bounds to me.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Christo, who is a lawyer, has made the assertion that had Penn State chosen to challenge this in court, they would have won, since he is confident that the NCAA does not have the legal power to invoke sanctions in this instance.

Curious as to whether anyone agrees with this.

I don't believe Penn State is going to fight over any of the sanctions, it's not in their best interest right now.

Thanks for the input (psssssssssssssssssssst< they already signed a consent decree. There is no question they aren't fighting it).

 

[timschochet]

Christo, who is a lawyer, has made the assertion that had Penn State chosen to challenge this in court, they would have won, since he is confident that the NCAA does not have the legal power to invoke sanctions in this instance.Curious as to whether anyone agrees with this.

I don't believe Penn State is going to fight over any of the sanctions, it's not in their best interest right now.

Of course they won't. But that wasn't the point of my question. Is what the NCAA doing here actually legal?

 

[pantherclub]

Poor christo

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Christo, who is a lawyer, has made the assertion that had Penn State chosen to challenge this in court, they would have won, since he is confident that the NCAA does not have the legal power to invoke sanctions in this instance.Curious as to whether anyone agrees with this.

Have you read the article from The Atlantic about the NCAA? It's fascinating, and long. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/8643/

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Christo, who is a lawyer, has made the assertion that had Penn State chosen to challenge this in court, they would have won, since he is confident that the NCAA does not have the legal power to invoke sanctions in this instance.Curious as to whether anyone agrees with this.

I agree. However Penn State couldn't possibly challenge it and worked with the NCAA on structuring these sanctions. This was more of a mediated settlement than a ruling.

 

[renesauz]

The argument that this punishment hurts many others and, thus, shouldn't be allowed holds zero water for me. Why? Because any punishment has similar consequences. When the NCAA levies major sanctions on other programs, it hurts the entire university, its student body, and the alumni. That's the nature of committing a punishable act, it has consequences that extend beyond your own person. Don't blame the NCAA for punishing others, blame Paterno and the other school power brokers -- THEY were the ones who caused this. How is that lost on people?

Because at least in other cases the punishments are directly related to CHEATING. As horrible as this was, it wasn't cheating. It's debateable how much it even helped the program. It helped Joepa's legacy...and if JoePa lied...i have no problem castrating him for this...but it didn't help the program.If Paterno and officials at PSU had done the right thing at the right time...it would have blown over very quickly. There would have been no impact on the prgram...who would hold them personally responsible for this sicko??? At worst...they lose a recruit or two that year. So....talk about how hiding this helped the program are ridiculous. It helped Paterno..NOT the program.Punish Paterno. Punish the people who knew and said nothing. Hang them all. The legions of fans and alum shouldn't be punished for looking up to Paterno, especially when not one single other blemish has ever been found on his record. NOT ONE. The whole nation looked up to Paterno.Make no mistake...this punishes the innocent.