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***Official 2014 World Cup Thread*** (1 Viewer)

Didn't mean to re-start the Donovan stuff. We were discussing the overall thoughts on JK. IMO, the whole situation makes him look bad. Obviously we won last night and have a chance to do well, but he still handled it the wrong way.

I've never been some huge Donovan fan. I thought it was weak of him to stay in MLS for basically his whole career and I thought his sabbatical during qualifying was ridiculous. Never been into his whole "its so hard to be a soccer player" act.

But I still think it was bush league of JK to bring him into camp and then unceremoniously cut him on a Wednesday afternoon under the ridiculous premise that Brad Davis and Julian Green were better players.
Davis and especially Green are likely to make the team better in 2018. Sometimes you have to offer the supremely talented player a spot on the bus when he has other options. I'm not sure why this is lost on you.Jurgen is playing the long game here as well and it's very smart to do.
Davis? He's 33 and OLDER than Donovan. He might make the commentary from the booth better in 2018, but that's as close to the field as he's going to get.
Ugh sorry. Was thinking of the kid who scored last night. Brain dead today.Edit: I know he doesn't play the same position as LD but I thought tlef was making a rant on young players.

 
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Not sure about soccer protocol, but if Germany wins next match, any chance they field a total B squad vs US in 3rd game?
If they have 6 points they'll sit four or five guys. Anyone with a card, dinged up, or slightly winded from the first two games.
Doesn't some of this depend on how many points the U.S. has, and what happens in Group H? I would imagine that the advancing teams would prefer to avoid Belgium, which seems like the only top team in that group. If it looks like Belgium is going to win Group H, then I have to think Germany would prefer to win Group G and face South Korea/Russia/Algeria. Not that the Germans are scared of Belgium, but it still seems like the right play to try to win against the U.S. and get an easier first game in the knockout round.
Winning Group G also allows you to avoid Argentina in the qtr finals and instead get (IIRC) either the group E winner (France/Switzerland) or Bosnia

 
Only thing worse than these soccer players like Dempsey rolling around holding their face and holding the game up are these boxers that take a left hook to the chin and lay on the ground like they are dead waiting for the ref to count to 10.
Dempsey's reasonable reaction to having his nose broken only amplifies how awful some of the theatrics are that the 'haters' complain about. You're making their point for them.

 
Not sure about soccer protocol, but if Germany wins next match, any chance they field a total B squad vs US in 3rd game?
If they have 6 points they'll sit four or five guys. Anyone with a card, dinged up, or slightly winded from the first two games.
Doesn't some of this depend on how many points the U.S. has, and what happens in Group H? I would imagine that the advancing teams would prefer to avoid Belgium, which seems like the only top team in that group. If it looks like Belgium is going to win Group H, then I have to think Germany would prefer to win Group G and face South Korea/Russia/Algeria. Not that the Germans are scared of Belgium, but it still seems like the right play to try to win against the U.S. and get an easier first game in the knockout round.
Winning Group G also allows you to avoid Argentina in the qtr finals and instead get (IIRC) either the group E winner (France/Switzerland) or Bosnia
I've got no faith in the "Germany B side" scenario. They absolutely need to win the group, and won't rest until that is beyond doubt. Further, their B side is far superior to anything the US can put on the field, but those players will be rested and hungry to prove themselves.

 
Re: Dempsey ninja face kick - was there a reasonable argument that was a high boot that deserved a yellow? Seemed very reckless to me without much footballing purpose.

 
that game was awesome!!!!

i was REALLY concerned for a long time

on Donovan. I am not nearly smart enough to debate the decision, but to me having him as an analyst was awkward. He is not mr personality, and knowing he wants to be there and thinks he should be there, and that many agree, gives the whole thing a very strange chemistry

not a big fan at all, i kind of wish they'd reevaluate and not go to him anymore

 
Just curious, when is the right time to cut the last 7 players?

As for the timing, the lockerroom issues that Floppo alluded to, may have played a role, I had heard that some of the practice sessions were starting to get contentious, as nerves were high from people competing for the 23 spots - no specifics that it related to LD, just a notion that it played a role in the timing to make the cuts when they did.

I don't see cutting Donovan as any kind of stain on Klinsmann. I understand those who thought Donovan should be on this team, but I trust JK to make those tough calls. Given the formation and tactics we are using, Donovan was not going to be a great fit on this team. JK was right to exclude him from the wide midfield role, that position is more defensive than offensive, and does not play to Donovan's strengths. I think JK wants the ball to go through Bradley as the playmaker, and not use a wide midfielder for that role. I could see a case where the US should play Bradley in the Beckerman role, and LD could have played up top, but Klinsmann sees it differently and clearly wants Bradley up top putting pressure on the ball looking to create the turnover, and quick counter attack - can't say he is wrong, nor would I say that Donovan can fill that role as well as Bradley can right now.

Once you remove the midfield positions, you are left with the forward positions, and realistically you are talking about a backup to Dempsey, who came into camp as the captain, and on great form. So, we are getting bent out of shape because Klinsmann did not keep a backup who would not play absent a significant injury?

I'd also like to give credit to Dempsey, Howard, Bradley and the rest of the players on the team. At the time of the cuts, and the inclusion of some surprise players, there was conversation, mostly media driven, about how these decisions would play on the team. I don't doubt that the players did not agree with all of the decisions, but this team is so much more professional and mature than the '98 team, which also faced some team chemistry questions, that it is like night and day. I think the team leaders and the other players deserve credit for accepting the decisions and focusing on the task at hand, with the players on hand.
This. Hell even with the Altidore injury, Donovan wouldn't be on the field. I said it when he was cut but after seeing how gassed guys were yesterday, there's no way he could go 90 and the only possible sub that would make any sense would be for Jones if we were chasing a goal. Once Jürgen rightly decided on the diamond (granted his distribution was subpar yesterday, but there was so much "right" that Beckerman did yesterday...his understanding of time/space/tactics is one of the few world class skillsets we have on the roster), there's really not a place for Donovan.

 
Re: Dempsey ninja face kick - was there a reasonable argument that was a high boot that deserved a yellow? Seemed very reckless to me without much footballing purpose.
I looked at it like a high stick in hockey -- it's up to you to control your foot (stick), and no matter how it happens if you catch someone in the face while they're standing you should be carded.

 
Without getting wading too far into the Klinsy debate, I'll just offer a few thoughts.

1. I don't believe for a second that Green only got his spot as a quid pro quo. I think Klinsmann wanted him on the team more than Donovan. Green, despite looking over his head in games, has drawn fouls (and should have drawn a penalty). He doesn't make as good a soccer decisions as Donovan, but in 2014, he's better running at defenders, which is a skill set few American players have. Both Green and Davis provide specific, late game skill sets that Donovan doesn't. Donovan is a better all-around player than either, but Donovan is also behind Zusi and Bedoya in that competition. Because his legs aren't what they were, he was also given the chance to compete with Bacon and Wondo for striker's spots. In 2014, Bacon is just better and Wondo is a pure poacher that the US lacks (and really the only other hold-up option when Jozy is hurt).

2. I think Klinsmann has a broad tactical vision that I mostly support. He wants attacking play from his fullbacks. He wants to compress the field and play a high line if possible. With that said, I don't think it matters if he's not an X's and O's guy so long as he has someone on his staff who is. When that guy was Martin Vazquez, fans were right to be worried. That guy is now Berti Vogts. Between him and Andy Herzog, the staff has plenty of tactical proficiency.

3. There are a lot of intangibles involved in being a good manager, but one that Klinsmann has in spades is guts. The guy makes the tough decisions. He doesn't apologize for them. He doesn't let what he's said in the past stop him from making the right decision in the present. And if he comes across as a bit of con artist or liar, so be it. He's pragmatic.

 
Only thing worse than these soccer players like Dempsey rolling around holding their face and holding the game up are these boxers that take a left hook to the chin and lay on the ground like they are dead waiting for the ref to count to 10.
Dempsey's reasonable reaction to having his nose broken only amplifies how awful some of the theatrics are that the 'haters' complain about. You're making their point for them.
The "haters" are 50% correct.

 
Joe Bryant said:
:lmao:

Very unlikely but I'll take +120 odds thanks.
:lmao:

J
No takers. Care to step up or counter it?

Apparently everyone agrees with me.
Agrees with you that the US is more likely to advance than not advance?

Or agrees with you that "more likely to advance than not advance" is the same thing as "very unlikely".
I already explained above that "very unlikely" was my opinion before I checked the line. I was surprised that the US is favored to advance. I still think it's unlikely the US advances and I offered a line better than the books. :shrug: Hit it or counter me. Otherwise, I am the only one who's stepped up to the plate to put my money where my mouth is.

 
btw... I've said it for years- Thomas Muller is a diving, embellishing ####tard. Pepe had every right to get in his face after that bull#### "oh my nose" theatrics when Pepe barely grazed his chin. of course there's "getting in his face" and 'getting in his face'.

But dammit- I hate the guy, but his hold-up play was unreal yesterday. He won and held every ball that came anywhere near him, particularly those in the air. Nobody else in the game does that as well as he showed yesterday. A huge reason, IMO, for their win- along with his slop goals (which most definitely count too).

And maybe I'm alone- but I thought Portugal looked good the first 10-20 minutes. The soft PK (IMO) and obviously Pepe sending off completely unraveled them. But given the first 20 minutes, I thought this was going to be a real battle. What might have been.... and unfortunately, what most likely will be for the US and Ghana if they don't get their tactics right.

 
Not sure about soccer protocol, but if Germany wins next match, any chance they field a total B squad vs US in 3rd game?
If they have 6 points they'll sit four or five guys. Anyone with a card, dinged up, or slightly winded from the first two games.
Doesn't some of this depend on how many points the U.S. has, and what happens in Group H? I would imagine that the advancing teams would prefer to avoid Belgium, which seems like the only top team in that group. If it looks like Belgium is going to win Group H, then I have to think Germany would prefer to win Group G and face South Korea/Russia/Algeria. Not that the Germans are scared of Belgium, but it still seems like the right play to try to win against the U.S. and get an easier first game in the knockout round.
Winning Group G also allows you to avoid Argentina in the qtr finals and instead get (IIRC) either the group E winner (France/Switzerland) or Bosnia
I've got no faith in the "Germany B side" scenario. They absolutely need to win the group, and won't rest until that is beyond doubt. Further, their B side is far superior to anything the US can put on the field, but those players will be rested and hungry to prove themselves.
I don't see the German B side happening either but there will be replacements.

Why do you feel they absolutely have to win the group? I don't think either Belgium or Russia scare them in the second round. Are you thinking they are trying to avoid an Argentina in the quarter finals vs a getting a France?

 
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So I watched the games with a bunch of my college team alums. Saw my teammate who is now an exec with the NY Cosmos. I asked him what he thought about Landon being left off the team. He said that what he'd heard is that is was a locker-room/ team-chemistry thing- which is something (he says) isn't new for LD.

I had assumed it was a clash of culture/personalities between him and JK.
So no takers on this? Or was this already old news?

I hadn't heard that LD was a "cancer" or a problem in the locker-room or had issues with teammates, but my buddy said that was the inside word on the pro level.

 
btw... I've said it for years- Thomas Muller is a diving, embellishing ####tard. Pepe had every right to get in his face after that bull#### "oh my nose" theatrics when Pepe barely grazed his chin. of course there's "getting in his face" and 'getting in his face'.
Now imagine it was Ronaldo....this thread would have been 10 pages longer all because of the "diving sissy boy" posts :lol:

 
I don't think either Belgium or Russia scare them in the second round.
I thought Belgium was generally recognized as significantly better than Russia (and South Korea and Algeria). If that's not correct, then winning the group probably isn't that important.
Belgium is very talented, but inexperienced at this level. Russia is a bit "unknown" since they are the only team to have every player playing in their domestic league.

But neither IMO are a Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Holland etc that you have to avoid in the second round at all costs.

 
I don't think either Belgium or Russia scare them in the second round.
I thought Belgium was generally recognized as significantly better than Russia (and South Korea and Algeria). If that's not correct, then winning the group probably isn't that important.
what I've seen of Russia scares the #### out of me- ruthless on attack and organized on defense. But they don't have the recognized players playing in big leagues that the Belgians do.

and they most certainly don't have :fro:

 
So I watched the games with a bunch of my college team alums. Saw my teammate who is now an exec with the NY Cosmos. I asked him what he thought about Landon being left off the team. He said that what he'd heard is that is was a locker-room/ team-chemistry thing- which is something (he says) isn't new for LD.

I had assumed it was a clash of culture/personalities between him and JK.
So no takers on this? Or was this already old news?

I hadn't heard that LD was a "cancer" or a problem in the locker-room or had issues with teammates, but my buddy said that was the inside word on the pro level.
The only problem I ever heard over the years with Landon was with Beckham in the early days. Never heard even a hint of a bad word said about him by other players

 
So I watched the games with a bunch of my college team alums. Saw my teammate who is now an exec with the NY Cosmos. I asked him what he thought about Landon being left off the team. He said that what he'd heard is that is was a locker-room/ team-chemistry thing- which is something (he says) isn't new for LD.

I had assumed it was a clash of culture/personalities between him and JK.
So no takers on this? Or was this already old news?

I hadn't heard that LD was a "cancer" or a problem in the locker-room or had issues with teammates, but my buddy said that was the inside word on the pro level.
With social media nowadays and all the insiders popping off on there, this would have come out sooner imo. not too many things stay behind the scenes anymore

 
btw... I've said it for years- Thomas Muller is a diving, embellishing ####tard. Pepe had every right to get in his face after that bull#### "oh my nose" theatrics when Pepe barely grazed his chin. of course there's "getting in his face" and 'getting in his face'.
Now imagine it was Ronaldo....this thread would have been 10 pages longer all because of the "diving sissy boy" posts :lol:
It's Pepe, nobody is going to feel sorry for him (unless his team releases a doctored video).

 
btw... I've said it for years- Thomas Muller is a diving, embellishing ####tard. Pepe had every right to get in his face after that bull#### "oh my nose" theatrics when Pepe barely grazed his chin. of course there's "getting in his face" and 'getting in his face'.
Now imagine it was Ronaldo....this thread would have been 10 pages longer all because of the "diving sissy boy" posts :lol:
too true.

that Muller nonsense is the worst. and it seems like what gets most of the non-fan's panties the most bunched.... and I can't disagree. "diving" is much more nebulous, IMO- there aren't that many obvious no-contact dives in games, but there are a lot of guys riding tackles and/or going down with minimal contact to draw the foul (don't basketball players and Wider Receivers do this too?).

and again IMO, Ronaldo dives less than he's given credit for. He's getting kicked from minute 0 to minute 93- sometimes to avoid getting kicked, he's going to go down in a way that looks like a dive.

 
So I watched the games with a bunch of my college team alums. Saw my teammate who is now an exec with the NY Cosmos. I asked him what he thought about Landon being left off the team. He said that what he'd heard is that is was a locker-room/ team-chemistry thing- which is something (he says) isn't new for LD.

I had assumed it was a clash of culture/personalities between him and JK.
So no takers on this? Or was this already old news?

I hadn't heard that LD was a "cancer" or a problem in the locker-room or had issues with teammates, but my buddy said that was the inside word on the pro level.
With social media nowadays and all the insiders popping off on there, this would have come out sooner imo. not too many things stay behind the scenes anymore
Yeah... kinda what I figured too- but he was drunkenly adamant about it. :shrug:

Dunno- seemed interesting and thought I'd share. It still seemed like JK didn't like his apparently blase attitude about playign for the team- even if, as I assume, that attitude is more a perceived reflection of LD's monotone personality, than whether LD actually really wanted to be there. I'm sure he did, and I'm sure he would have given his left nut for the team, even if he sounded like he didn't completely care.

 
Seeing some unconfirmed tweets that last nights game drew a 7.1 overnight rating on espn
Multiple people are reporting this now. Two important items here: This does not include Univision and this is the highest of ANY round ever on ESPN (the final is always on ABC).

The final viewership numbers should be very interesting.

bill hofheimer ‏@bhofheimer_espn 20m

.@ussoccer opener nets 7.0 overnight rtg, the highest rated #WorldCup overnight on record on ESPN (any round). #USAvGHA #USMNT
 
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So I watched the games with a bunch of my college team alums. Saw my teammate who is now an exec with the NY Cosmos. I asked him what he thought about Landon being left off the team. He said that what he'd heard is that is was a locker-room/ team-chemistry thing- which is something (he says) isn't new for LD.

I had assumed it was a clash of culture/personalities between him and JK.
So no takers on this? Or was this already old news?

I hadn't heard that LD was a "cancer" or a problem in the locker-room or had issues with teammates, but my buddy said that was the inside word on the pro level.
I don't think I had heard this - but can't say that I am overly surprised - just watching him last night, he strikes me as more of a loner than a hang-out-with-the-fellas kind of guy. :shrug: Maybe he was the source of the anti-german sentiment that Twellman and Lalas like to spout from time-to-time.

 
Seeing some unconfirmed tweets that last nights game drew a 7.1 overnight rating on espn
Multiple people are reporting this now. Two important items here: This does not include Univision and this is the highest of ANY round ever on ESPN (the final is always on ABC).

The final viewership numbers should be very interesting.

bill hofheimer ‏@bhofheimer_espn 20m

.@ussoccer opener nets 7.0 overnight rtg, the highest rated #WorldCup overnight on record on ESPN (any round). #USAvGHA #USMNT
:thumbup: great news, even if short-lived. These numbers will be surpassed on Sunday.

 
Seeing some unconfirmed tweets that last nights game drew a 7.1 overnight rating on espn
Multiple people are reporting this now. Two important items here: This does not include Univision and this is the highest of ANY round ever on ESPN (the final is always on ABC).

The final viewership numbers should be very interesting.

bill hofheimer ‏@bhofheimer_espn 20m

.@ussoccer opener nets 7.0 overnight rtg, the highest rated #WorldCup overnight on record on ESPN (any round). #USAvGHA #USMNT
btw, further evidence of how far the sport and this event has come.... every paper in NYC had it as their cover story.

when the US shocked the world by beating Portugal's dream-team in 02 (a much more dramatic win- huge upset), I am fairly certain it barely blipped the sports pages.

eta: I think the same is true for the US beating Colombia in 94, back when soccer coverage was more a "human interest" story than "sports" story.

 
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So I watched the games with a bunch of my college team alums. Saw my teammate who is now an exec with the NY Cosmos. I asked him what he thought about Landon being left off the team. He said that what he'd heard is that is was a locker-room/ team-chemistry thing- which is something (he says) isn't new for LD.

I had assumed it was a clash of culture/personalities between him and JK.
So no takers on this? Or was this already old news?

I hadn't heard that LD was a "cancer" or a problem in the locker-room or had issues with teammates, but my buddy said that was the inside word on the pro level.
I don't think I had heard this - but can't say that I am overly surprised - just watching him last night, he strikes me as more of a loner than a hang-out-with-the-fellas kind of guy. :shrug: Maybe he was the source of the anti-german sentiment that Twellman and Lalas like to spout from time-to-time.
If you'll remember Grant Wahl's book about Beckham in LA, there was a lot written about things that Beckham did that apparently rubbed Landon the wrong way. And I remember thinking how easily it could have been solved by Landon actually sacking up and talking to Beckham instead of being an an obvious source to Wahl. And that seemed to be Beckham's reaction. Like, "Jesus Christ, you couldn't just say something instead of throwing me under the bus in print?"

In any case, Landon Donovan doesn't need to defend his career to me. He's the greatest USMNT player of all time. But he does strike me, at times, as kind of passive aggressive.

 
So I watched the games with a bunch of my college team alums. Saw my teammate who is now an exec with the NY Cosmos. I asked him what he thought about Landon being left off the team. He said that what he'd heard is that is was a locker-room/ team-chemistry thing- which is something (he says) isn't new for LD.

I had assumed it was a clash of culture/personalities between him and JK.
So no takers on this? Or was this already old news?

I hadn't heard that LD was a "cancer" or a problem in the locker-room or had issues with teammates, but my buddy said that was the inside word on the pro level.
I don't think I had heard this - but can't say that I am overly surprised - just watching him last night, he strikes me as more of a loner than a hang-out-with-the-fellas kind of guy. :shrug: Maybe he was the source of the anti-german sentiment that Twellman and Lalas like to spout from time-to-time.
If you'll remember Grant Wahl's book about Beckham in LA, there was a lot written about things that Beckham did that apparently rubbed Landon the wrong way. And I remember thinking how easily it could have been solved by Landon actually sacking up and talking to Beckham instead of being an an obvious source to Wahl. And that seemed to be Beckham's reaction. Like, "Jesus Christ, you couldn't just say something instead of throwing me under the bus in print?"

In any case, Landon Donovan doesn't need to defend his career to me. He's the greatest USMNT player of all time. But he does strike me, at times, as kind of passive aggressive.
I grew up in CA (granted, N not S) and LD reminds me of... hell- just about everybody I grew up with. There was a prevailing attitude that being blase and disinterested was the preferred emotional state; I remember being essentially heckled because I cared so much about my sport. LD obviously cares or he wouldn't be where he is, but I keep thinking that the perception of him- especially among the more teutonically inclined out there- is that he doesn't. That was my only point- other than passing along the locker-room thing.

And yeah- best ever without a doubt.

 
Some of these commercials Landon is doing now are very passive-aggressive IMO. On an EA sports commercial singing "I am not I am not I am not going to Brazil" -- that's just weird.

 
I see the NBA Finals averaged a 9.3 rating over the five games.

Any chance the US game surpasses it when the Spanish-language channels are included?

 
So whever posted that Ghana news link about the game- thanks! I love that kind of stuff... always interested to see what the opposing country's media thinks of the games.

That said, they complained that the game rested on Ghana marking mistakes that led to US goals. Sure. But the same could be said about the Ghana goal, where the US player lost a step marking the guy who ended up scoring, allowing him to get goal-side.

 
So whever posted that Ghana news link about the game- thanks! I love that kind of stuff... always interested to see what the opposing country's media thinks of the games.

That said, they complained that the game rested on Ghana marking mistakes that led to US goals. Sure. But the same could be said about the Ghana goal, where the US player lost a step marking the guy who ended up scoring, allowing him to get goal-side.
Hey Floppo... I missed that and we're moving fast in this thread... could you repost?

 
Optimism:

Men in Blazers@MenInBlazers
FollowOn evidence of first 45, it will be Germany getting second place in Group G behind US #VonTrapps #SizeTheDay #Courage

:lol:
Todays follow-up:

Michael Davies @embassydavies
On reflection, yesterday was a day completely sized.

:lmao:
These guys have been over the top on Watch ESPN. I'm sure their schtick is not everyone's cuppa, but for me its been must-watch stuff over the past month or so.

 

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