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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (2 Viewers)

Ranethe said:
Nice to hear anecdotal accounts of support of Trumpism declining. Haven’t seen that around me in WNY. I’ve seen 5 blue “Trump 2020” flags within 5 minutes driving from where I live, 2 of which are relatively new. A few of these houses couple the Trump flags with confederate flags. And of course, I’ve mentioned it several times, the Big Red Pickup with the giant confederate flag mounted in the bed, that drives by my house several times a day. I always know it’s coming when I’m in the front yard, the flag is so big you can hear it flapping in the wind long before it passes.
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I'm sure those Union soldiers from western New York would be so proud of the Confederate battle flags.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
The senate was chosen for a reason and the Court specifically not chosen.

Have you never read the Federalist Papers?
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I have not, and I know very little about this subject. That thought was offered from the top of my uneducated head. I would be delighted if you could unpack the reasoning for me. 

 
Tucker Carlson is being gutted, viciously attacked on social media right now. 

Carlson as been as nativist, nationalist, isolationist as the most die hard Trump supporter. And he has dipped his toe into sheer racism at times as well. But one hint of blasphemy and you are banished from the island. 

 
timschochet said:
He should be. But he isn’t yet. 

Of the 100 Senators who will be deciding the President’s fate, in the supposed form of jurors, there’s not a single one of them that would avoid being excused from a regular jury for cause. THAT’S the flaw in the impeachment process. If I were rewriting the Constitution, perhaps it would be better to have the Supreme Court review the evidence and, once the House impeached Trump, decide on his innocence or guilt. The Supreme Court certainly is not free of liberal vs conservative bias, but it would be less so than the Senate. 
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Impeachment is a political, not a legal, process. That would defeat the purpose.

 
timschochet said:
Tucker Carlson is being gutted, viciously attacked on social media right now. 

Carlson as been as nativist, nationalist, isolationist as the most die hard Trump supporter. And he has dipped his toe into sheer racism at times as well. But one hint of blasphemy and you are banished from the island. 
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It's hardly blasphemy, it's a defense as it concedes wrongdoing but insists that it is not grounds for impeachment. That's the hilarious thing, Carlson is being excoriated nonetheless.

 
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

I’m hearing that the Great People of Utah are considering their vote for their Pompous Senator, Mitt Romney, to be a big mistake. I agree! He is a fool who is playing right into the hands of the Do Nothing Democrats! #IMPEACHMITTROMNEY

:popcorn:

 
Skoo said:
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

I’m hearing that the Great People of Utah are considering their vote for their Pompous Senator, Mitt Romney, to be a big mistake. I agree! He is a fool who is playing right into the hands of the Do Nothing Democrats! #IMPEACHMITTROMNEY

:popcorn:
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He’s not doing this to destroy Romney. At least that’s not the main reason IMO. I don’t think he cares about Romney. He wants to warn other Republicans: this is what happens when you cross me. Stay in line or else. 

 
timschochet said:
He should be. But he isn’t yet. 

Of the 100 Senators who will be deciding the President’s fate, in the supposed form of jurors, there’s not a single one of them that would avoid being excused from a regular jury for cause. THAT’S the flaw in the impeachment process. If I were rewriting the Constitution, perhaps it would be better to have the Supreme Court review the evidence and, once the House impeached Trump, decide on his innocence or guilt. The Supreme Court certainly is not free of liberal vs conservative bias, but it would be less so than the Senate. 
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The constitutional hitch - since 1974 but now and moving forward - for everyone, all parties and all stripes - is that there are two obstacles to finding a president has committed a crime through any kind of process (even assuming we could do what you describe):

  1. The 1974 and 1999 DOJ Memos stating that a president cannot be indicted. Mueller reaffirmed this - though with zero analysis - in his report, though he also cited the Constitution itself. 
  2. The Trump wrinkle of politicizing the OLC office to generate opinions that effectively prevent the President from being investigated. Executive privilege is widened to everything the president touches. Even the underlying evidence of the Mueller investigation has not been released to Congress. It is all encompassing and unitary-authoritarian. So the system is manipulated.
The only thing the USSC could possibly be asked to do is to somehow rule on those two things when they arise. The Mueller report aftermath would have been the perfect vehicle for doing that, but the Dems kept their gonads in a drawer. This is a second chance to show the fortitude necessary to push these points or else the precedents set could be extremely dangerous, and see Bananafish's article further up for more on that.

 
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Amazingly the one guy to kinda sorta keep his nose clean in this swamp of an administration shows up in the Ukraine misadventure.

Perry pressed Ukraine on corruption, energy company changes

The energy secretary's role in pushing the president's message in Kiev was more extensive than publicly known...

...Among other changes, Perry pushed for Ukraine’s state-owned natural gas company Naftogaz to expand its board to include Americans, two people familiar with the matter said. Two long-time energy executives based in Perry’s home state of Texas were among those under consideration for that role, one source familiar with the administration’s dealings with the company said.

Energy Department spokeswoman Shaylyn Hynes said Perry had advised that the board be expanded. She was not immediately able to comment on whether Perry had suggested names to fill new seats.

...Perry, who POLITICO reported is expected to resign next month, attended Zelensky's May inauguration in Kiev in place of Vice President Mike Pence. In addition, he was one of the administration’s "three amigos" on Ukrainian policy, along with Kurt Volker, the U.S. special representative for the Ukraine conflict, and Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, as Sondland described their relationship in a July broadcast interview.

...

Among Perry's numerous visits with Zelenksy and other Ukraine officials in the past year was a dinner with Zelensky, Trump’s son-law-Jared Kushner and other officials in June, according to a government photo taken by the U.S. of the event. The two met again the following month with Polish government officials to sign the energy cooperation agreement, according to news releases.

Perry also attended the bilateral meeting with Zelenksy and Trump in New York on Sept. 25, a DOE spokesperson confirmed.

The message from Perry to Zelensky, according to one person familiar with the discussions, was: "You've got to take steps on your anti-corruption efforts.”

Perry also called for shaking up Naftogaz to help it cut its reliance on energy supplies from Russia and open itself up for more investment from the U.S., people familiar with the discussions told POLITICO.

Specifically, Perry pushed Naftogaz to expand its supervisory board — a three-person entity that now includes Amos Hochstein, a former Biden aide and State Department energy official currently working for the U.S. liquefied natural gas company Tellurian. The other two members are Bruno Lescoeur, a former executive in charge of international affairs at the French energy company Engie, and Clare Spottiswoode, director of London-based advisory Gas Strategies. ...
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- I wouldn't be surprised if in his role as the New Manafort that Giuliani was representing one of Burisma's competitors, remains to be seen though.

 
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Skoo said:
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

I’m hearing that the Great People of Utah are considering their vote for their Pompous Senator, Mitt Romney, to be a big mistake. I agree! He is a fool who is playing right into the hands of the Do Nothing Democrats! #IMPEACHMITTROMNEY

:popcorn:
Click to expand...
Trump calling someone else “pompous” is great schtick.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It's hardly blasphemy, it's a defense as it concedes wrongdoing but insists that it is not grounds for impeachment. That's the hilarious thing, Carlson is being excoriated nonetheless.
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Classic signs of cult behavior 

Absolute  authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

The group/leader is always right.

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Ned
boots11234 said:
So the real question is when he is not impeached what then are the Democrats going to do?  Who are they going to run against him?  
 

it’s obvious they cannot beat him at the polls. 
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Pro tip: that cart goes behind the horse, not in front of it. Trump is being given all the proverbial rope in the world, and he's nearly tying the knot himself at this point.

 
timschochet said:
Tucker Carlson is being gutted, viciously attacked on social media right now. 

Carlson as been as nativist, nationalist, isolationist as the most die hard Trump supporter. And he has dipped his toe into sheer racism at times as well. But one hint of blasphemy and you are banished from the island. 
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It's right out of the Jacobin diaries.

 
Rirruto said:
Serious question: has Romney done anything besides being "troubled" or "appalled"? I kind of thought he was giving the same lip service that most other reasonable elected Republicans have since Paul Ryan during the campaign.

It seems weird for Trump to attack Romney here. Especially, since Mitt is on a list of about one or two people who could make an actual challenge to Trump during the primaries. I'm not sure Mitt would win, but he could damage the party in the primary if he decided he wanted to In a way that William Weld really can't.
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Romney would get curb stomped by Trump if he tried to run against him. Judging by the ~90% approval rates Trump gets in polls from self described Republicans and conservatives he as completely as possible represents the values of his base.

OTOH of all the GOP Senators is the most insulated against retribution from Trump. I suppose criticism from Trump could hurt his fund raising but Romney can self fund and it appears that the Mormons in Utahless  toleration for the moral catastrophe of Trump than red state, fundamentalist, YEC, Christians that make up such a large portion of the GOP.  If Romney choses to run for re-election I can't imagine him losing no matter how many mean tweets Trump sends his way.

Still, when the time comes to act I'd bet that he rolls over and does Trump's bidding.  Same goes with every other GOP pol that expresses "serious concern". It's only fodder for the TV cameras so that they get undeserved credit for being something other than partisan hacks. 

 
boots11234 said:
Please name one part of my statement that is incorrect. 
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How about four?

1. "he's a RINO"
 (FALSE. Romney's ideology is closer to classic Republicanism than many of today's pro-Trump politicians.)

2. he wants people to like him
 (This is a Catch-22 for you. Because if the claim is really true, then you're tacitly admitting that the majority of the country opposes Trump.)

3. he's a carpetbagger
 (FALSE. This claim is not only ignorant of Romney's history, but ignorant of the very concept of what "carpetbaggers" were all about.)

4. he's a loser
 (DEBATABLE. He's 2-2 in general elections and 6-3 in all major elections including primaries.)

 
timschochet said:
He’s not doing this to destroy Romney. At least that’s not the main reason IMO. I don’t think he cares about Romney. He wants to warn other Republicans: this is what happens when you cross me. Stay in line or else. 
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They'd have to be pretty dumb to not already know this.

No matter how loyal, no matter what they've sacrificed for him, Trump has never hesitated to throw anyone and everyone under the bus at the first sign of them not groveling to his will. 

 
Devin Nunes is dumb

https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/rep-devin-nunes-makes-the-case-for-trumps-impeachment-during-botched-interview/

Nunes indicated that he would take issue with Trump and Giuliani if they purposely tried to pressure Ukraine, or other foreign governments, to unearth opposition research on Biden for political purposes. “If a president just randomly was parachuting his personal attorney down into countries where he thought he could get some dirt on political opponents … that might be questionable,” he said, but added, “That’s not what this is.”

The problem here, however, is that Trump and Giuliani are both accused of doing exactly what Nunes has described above.
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