***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (2 Viewers)

[Henry Ford]

That's what everyone thinks right now, because there's no opponent yet.  And the Republicans are busily trying to vilify every candidate the Democrats have, which is exactly why trump was digging up Biden dirt in the first place. 

But by election time, this will be another "lesser of two evils" election.  If it's Warren, they'll hammer the pocahontas thing, but they'll be telling every story they can about how she'll destroy the economy and the taxes and businesses leaving in droves and crying socialism and liberal baby killing, gun stealing, business hating anti americanism.

They've laid the groundwork with their base but when the people who stand to lose money in a wealth tax and the businesses that stand to lose money to regulation start attacking her it will be "look i don't like trump as a person but look at the economy, do you want to see what happens when Warren holds the purse strings", totally ignoring things like the debt we've gone into to fund tax cuts under trump. 

Precisely. 

 

[jon_mx]

Jesus you’re such a victim. Get over yourself. 

The hypocrisy is crazy in here.   The whole thing started over a post where this forum was crying about being victims of 5 to 6 posters.  That was the root cause of all of this.  

 

[timschochet]

Do you recommend the book you’re reading?

It’s a little dry. There’s probably a better narrative out there. 

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I’m not sure why the 2nd whistleblower is such a big deal. He claims to have 1st hand knowledge. But Trump has already confirmed everything the 1st whistleblower accused him of. I thought we were already past the “is it true?” stage. What am I missing here?

Potentially a big deal if the verbatim transcript is substantially different in some way from the memorandum of telephone conversation.

 

[timschochet]

That's what everyone thinks right now, because there's no opponent yet.  And the Republicans are busily trying to vilify every candidate the Democrats have, which is exactly why trump was digging up Biden dirt in the first place. 

But by election time, this will be another "lesser of two evils" election.  If it's Warren, they'll hammer the pocahontas thing, but they'll be telling every story they can about how she'll destroy the economy and the taxes and businesses leaving in droves and crying socialism and liberal baby killing, gun stealing, business hating anti americanism.

They've laid the groundwork with their base but when the people who stand to lose money in a wealth tax and the businesses that stand to lose money to regulation start attacking her it will be "look i don't like trump as a person but look at the economy, do you want to see what happens when Warren holds the purse strings", totally ignoring things like the debt we've gone into to fund tax cuts under trump. 

You have laid out, in precise terms, the reason I would prefer Warren not be the candidate. 

 

[The Commish]

The thing that had already been investigated and put to rest...ok.  So, what's your view on his approach to Biden and his son then?

I think Trump is hoping Biden and his son acted corruptly.  

I asked what you thought about his approach....you know, asking a foreign country to investigate him/them and not going through the proper channels of having his DOJ open the investigation.  I don't really care what Trump's hopes are.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Perhaps the problem is that @jon_mx is a female. That would explain the over-emotional, confusing and irrational logic. If we think of jon as a woman, maybe we can better understand what she keeps saying. 

Come on, dude.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

Come on, dude.

I just don’t care anymore. It’s so tiring. 

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

1. About a year into his imprisonment. But it took another decade for the public to realize it. 

2. Yes, but remember there was no social media, no television, and the newspapers of the time in France, led by Le Figaro, were strongly conservative (and anti-Semitic as well.) So there was not much chance the public would get the truth. It took a famous letter by a well known novelist to turn things around. 

I like this talk quite a bit, which gives a brief summary of the story.

 

[Amused to Death]

you're directly contradicting boots, who says that a transcript has been released.  who am I to believe?  maurile or boots......boots or maurile.......who knows?

@boots11234 & @Don't Noonan have claimed the full transcript has been released. I'm sure they're both looking for the link.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The hypocrisy is crazy in here.   The whole thing started over a post where this forum was crying about being victims of 5 to 6 posters.  That was the root cause of all of this.  

The forum wasn't crying.

 

[jon_mx]

I asked what you thought about his approach....you know, asking a foreign country to investigate him/them and not going through the proper channels of having his DOJ open the investigation.  I don't really care what Trump's hopes are.

Unless it was truly tied to foreign aid, I have very little issue with it.  It was something that went on in a foreign country.  If there was wrong-doing, it should be exposed.  Trump is grasping and is probably delusional, but what is new.  

 

[jon_mx]

The forum wasn't crying.

There were 34 likes to a post suggesting 5-6 people should be banned.   There was a ton of whining in that post and s ton of people supporting it.  

 

[dkp993]

Perhaps the problem is that @jon_mx is a female. That would explain the over-emotional, confusing and irrational logic. If we think of jon as a woman, maybe we can better understand what she keeps saying. 

This will not go over well.....

 

[JbizzleMan]

 

[moleculo]

There were 34 likes to a post suggesting 5-6 people should be banned.   There was a ton of whining in that post and s ton of people supporting it.  

I don't think I gave a like to that post, but if I did, it would have been calling you out for cherry picking and backing it up...not for suggesting anyone be banned.

ETA: I did not mark it as liked.  I should have for not just the cherry-picking call-out but also the excellent Atlantic article about Poland.

 

[sho nuff]

Its almost as if a long post had more to it than just one thing..

 

[BigJim®]

Good morning. Some thoughts: 

1. I’m not sure why the 2nd whistleblower is such a big deal. He claims to have 1st hand knowledge. But Trump has already confirmed everything the 1st whistleblower accused him of. I thought we were already past the “is it true?” stage. What am I missing here?

I think it can be important if it removes the dumb 2nd hand/no evidence of QPQ, and if it brings in new evidence/people who should testify. Most are already there, but I don't think the president has confirmed these issues. His defense has been more centered around "I can ask a foreign country to address corruption." 

Now the IRS whistleblower re: a non-legal/tradition of auditing financials, that should be left to the side. It's just going to give legs to "they'll attack me for everything" 

 

[Tom Skerritt]

This will not go over well.....

jon is the one of the whiniest, hyperbolic, hypocritical victims on this board. I’m just tired of it, and I’m calling it out. The non-trumpers are a majority here, and the ever-trumpers just can’t handle it. Perhaps there is a legitimate reason it’s a majority. But jon et al continue to play the victim. It’s exhausting. 

 

[dkp993]

There were 34 likes to a post suggesting 5-6 people should be banned.   There was a ton of whining in that post and s ton of people supporting it.  

Jon to be fair that was a substantial post.  There is a lot in there for someone to like that could have nothing to do with the banning comment.  I almost liked it but ultimately didn’t because of that comment but many others might not have been as judicious in the giving out of the likes as I was in that moment.

 

[dkp993]

jon is the one of the whiniest, hyperbolic, hypocritical victims on this board. I’m just tired of it, and I’m calling it out. The non-trumpers are a majority here, and the ever-trumpers just can’t handle it. Perhaps there is a legitimate reason it’s a majority. But jon et al continue to play the victim. It’s exhausting. 

Not sure I disagree with much of this but the then calling him a “women” because he acts that way is not a good look.  A person can be all of those things and still very much be a male.   

 

[Tom Skerritt]

Not sure I disagree with much of this but the then calling him a “women” because he acts that way is not a good look.  A person can be all of those things and still very much be a male.   

Like I said, I just don’t care about being nice anymore. No disrespect to women, but the behavior is indicative of high levels of estrogen. I’m just saying. 

 

[Lutherman2112]

I skip A LOT of pages and must have missed the long post...can someone link to it?

 

[Tom Skerritt]

Narcissistic martyrs thrive on the negative attention which fuels their victim mentality and justifies their behavior. Don't give them the satisfaction.

I don’t disagree with you, but ignoring it has no effect either. So I am simply trying a different approach. And I just don’t care. 

 

[jon_mx]

Jon to be fair that was a substantial post.  There is a lot in there for someone to like that could have nothing to do with the banning comment.  I almost liked it but ultimately didn’t because of that comment but many others might not have been as judicious in the giving out of the likes as I was in that moment.

This is the 'substantial post' which characterized trump supporters, me or other posters here:  

"whoring out our greatness to Russia, China and Saudi Arabia"

"no interest in truth or integrity, posts simply to generate a reaction and pollute the waters with misinformation and distraction."

"The harm done to our nation is either intentional..."

"Being immune to appeals to truth and patriotism"

"they delight in mocking folks who take such things seriously."

"bad-faithers"

"I argued that trying to treat this disease"

"treat the infection" 

@jon_mx blending this tactic in with his usual martyr-shtick

"purposefully distort the truth and intend to mislead",

"you can't trust that people believe what they're saying"

"I'd argue we'd be better off with none of them."

"There's only 5 or 6 and we all know who they are. All they bring to the table is garbage."

The last part was a complete and overly lengthy mischaracterization of the motives I had about posting a definition of 'defraud'.   There was way too much crap in it to consider it substantial.  The rhetoric throughout the entire post was absolutely horrible.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

This thought strikes me often. What's the endgame? That whoring out our greatness to Russia, China and Saudi Arabia then asking them to investigate the "traitors...probably registered Democrats" back home who still think that's a crime has become a mainstream political philosophy worthy of debate is heartbreakingly sad. One can only hope that adding "OVVned the LiBS" to the Pledge of Allegiance will make our children's future that much brighter 

Last weekend, I made several long posts trying to prove that, here and in the country at large, we are struggling to grapple with this peculiar breed of EverTrumpian who, having no interest in truth or integrity, posts simply to generate a reaction and pollute the waters with misinformation and distraction. The harm done to our nation is either intentional or, at the very least, irrelevant. Being immune to appeals to truth and patriotism, they delight in mocking folks who take such things seriously. The mods have a particularly tough time, as, unlike over-the-top insults and bad words, it's much harder to build a case against bad faith. And then they have to discipline those who, out of frustration, cross the line in lashing out at the bad-faithers because, well, those are the rules. It's the ultimate triple-lindy for the EverTrumper: banishment of the adversary, bonus points from their brood, and the structure, created to support good faith and meritorious arguments, has been turned on the very people fighting to save it and thus becomes further ricketier. Over time, the tone goes further and further downhill as good discussion becomes harder to find and good posters leave rather than put up with the exasperation. I argued that trying to treat this disease with the tools created to treat traditional line-stepping was ineffective and helped to normalize their behavior, but I have to admit I don't have an alternative that seems particularly promising. Until then we just have to fight them with the truth and show the few left in power trying to treat the infection that they aren't alone.

When I saw @jon_mx blending this tactic in with his usual martyr-shtick, it raised an eyebrow as, rightly or wrongly, I'd assumed he'd managed to retain a whisp of appreciation for right and wrong. When I asked him about it he proclaimed his innocence and returned to the tired lecture on his own devotion to facts and logic, our lack of the same, and the further deterioration of "this place" into a cess-pool. I was still skeptical, but it sounded like the jon I used to know.

I haven't been here much this week, but it seems that while the noose has continued to tighten,  the claims of "not a crime!" have only gotten louder as they are stretched to apply to evermore blatant and egregious abuses. The argument that systematic abuse of the powers granted to the Executive branch was so preposterous and beyond the powers of imagination of our forefathers that laws against such a grievous threat to our nation had never been codified seemed preposterous to me, but I'm no lawyer so I accepted that assessment on faith. Well, that was dumb.

I knew at some point the law and precedent had been bandied about, so I endeavored to find that part of the thread to ensure I'd understood it correctly. Well, who should appear but our old friend "Facts and Logic" Jon to set me straight! Praise the Lord, as without him around to drain the cesspool we'd all drown in liberal tears.

Wait a second...see the "Hass, 216 U.S. at 479-480." right at the top? Now, I'm no lawyer,  but I'm pretty sure that's a citation and citations go at the end of things. And that "." looks suspiciously like a period. Hmmm.

Now, had the law began and ended with the part he quoted, perhaps his argument would hold water. But when "facts and logic" turn into lies of omission, I'd posit that the truth probably isn't on your side. If you include the lines immediately before and after jon's "cherry-picked" quote from  the Department of Justice's definition of Conspiracy to Defraud the United States you're left with a decidedly different opinion of what is and isn't a crime (Robert Barr must not have gotten around to this part yet).

Now while I've had my share of warning points and bannings, I have to admit the rules keep this place from becoming a sewer like 99% of the other places on the internet that allow comments. I would argue that posts like @jon_mx 's here,  that purposefully distort the truth and intend to mislead, are infinitely worse than a bad word or two and directly attack what makes a message board healthy: good faith posting. If you can't trust that people believe what they're saying, what's the point of listening?

I don't know that I'd support banning him (at least not before he's had a chance to reply), but if anything deserves the hammer it's stuff like this. It attacks and degrades the very heart of what makes this place special and  is an insult to what @Joe 8ryant has done for us and is trying to keep alive. I know trying to keep this place ideologically balanced, but if you have to turn a blind eye to stuff like this I'd argue we'd be better off with none of them. The one's who's motives are clear I mean. There's only 5 or 6 and we all know who they are. All they bring to the table is garbage.

Back to the law, now that we know what it actually says, I'd say there's a veritable cornucopia of actions taken by Trump and the rest of the StupidWatergate Crew that this would apply to, including burying Whistleblower Reports from Intelligence Officers about the President's conduct, deep-sixing a Criminal Referral by the General Counsel of the CIA regrding the same, hiding the transcript of that conduct on a server reserved for the most sensitive National Security Secrets, recruiting non-government employees to subvert the State Department, then fired the Ambassador to Ukraine when Giuliani complained, meanwhile, a second whistle blower called foul on the Treasury Department for manipulating Trump's tax returns and refusing to turn them over as required by law, and Trump's complaints about second-hand information have a third whistle blower mulling coming forward with more detailed, firsthand report.

Let me remind you that Trump can de-classify anything he wants and there's nothing we can do about it. I'd forgotten that he extended that power to Barr several weeks ago. How much do you think the stuff on that top-secret server are worth? At least several dozen Trump Towers.

I could go on for pages with this stuff. There's alarm bells going off and red lights flashing everywhere. When is enough enough?

I can already hear the cries of "Fake News", so let me remind you that the Mueller Report confirmed every shred of the MSM's reporting on Trump and Russia (except for Mueller objected to BuzzFeed's reporting that Trump "ordered" Cohen to lie to Congress because Trump used coded language, you know, like a criminal). Of course, the Mueller Report also details dozens of times Trump lied about Russia and Russians and 10 ways in which he obstructed justice, yet this supposedly exonerates the President and embarrasses Democrats for bringing it up.

Trump got people to believe the real news was fake news so he could fill them with his "Real News" that was actually fake. It worked so well he's trying it again, and the people he duped are proud of it and happy to help (talk about embarrassing).

Trump got people to believe the United States was run by the "Deep State", so he got rid of (most of) the real government and installed his own Deep State. And people cheered. What a hero. I've never been so proud.

Yesterday, Trump quietly gave Poland Most Favored Immigration status. Why, you ask? Read this excellent Atlantic article from a year ago on what's been going on over there and you'll know why.  If you replaced Warsaw with Washington you'd swear it was written about America today.

Now we know the endgame our children will inherit.

This was the post with 34 “likes”. 

 

[BigJim®]

That's what everyone thinks right now, because there's no opponent yet.  And the Republicans are busily trying to vilify every candidate the Democrats have, which is exactly why trump was digging up Biden dirt in the first place. 

But by election time, this will be another "lesser of two evils" election.  If it's Warren, they'll hammer the pocahontas thing, but they'll be telling every story they can about how she'll destroy the economy and the taxes and businesses leaving in droves and crying socialism and liberal baby killing, gun stealing, business hating anti americanism.

They've laid the groundwork with their base but when the people who stand to lose money in a wealth tax and the businesses that stand to lose money to regulation start attacking her it will be "look i don't like trump as a person but look at the economy, do you want to see what happens when Warren holds the purse strings", totally ignoring things like the debt we've gone into to fund tax cuts under trump. 

I think this is fair, but on the flip side let's not forget 2018 where health care was the most important topic for voters, and Republicans remain obstructionists despite "It will be easy" claims by Trump, and "we're not taking away pre-existing conditions" claims that fell flat with voters. They did nothing the first two years, and don't seem to have reacted at all to 2018. I don't think adding corruption and defending the indefensible is going to help. As a right leaning moderate, I've given up hope of fiscal conservatism, and I guess I'd rather new voices pushing for healthcare/environment solutions than get behind reinvigorate coal and walls.

JMHO, but one possible upside of all of this is I think voters will be extremely wary of any charges Trump makes on his opponents. I think the veil of his M.O. (no untruth is beneath him, and was probably purchased info) has been lifted.  

 

[Amused to Death]

Could there be more than two? Or is he just admitting to the two?

Andrew P. Bakaj

@AndrewBakaj

IC WHISTLEBLOWER UPDATE: I can confirm that my firm and my team represent multiple whistleblowers in connection to the underlying August 12, 2019, disclosure to the Intelligence Community Inspector General. No further comment at this time.

 

[[scooter]]

Narcissistic martyrs thrive on the negative attention which fuels their victim mentality and justifies their behavior. Don't give them the satisfaction.

I don’t disagree with you, but ignoring it has no effect either. So I am simply trying a different approach. And I just don’t care. 

What "effect" do you think you could possibly achieve? Nothing that you do will prevent unbalanced or disturbed people from posting here, or from changing their ways. The best you can hope for is to not allow their idiosyncrasies to affect your own behavior.

Been that way since day one.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

What "effect" do you think you could possibly achieve? Nothing that you do will prevent unbalanced or disturbed people from posting here, or from changing their ways. The best you can hope for is to not allow their idiosyncrasies to affect your own behavior.

Been that way since day one.

Agreed. Just punching back a little. That’s all. Democrats could probably do a little more punching back instead of taking it all of the time. 

 

[Tom Skerritt]

But you are.

Lighten up Francis. 

 

[msommer]

@jon_mx blending this tactic in with his usual martyr-shtick

This one sounds spot on actually.

 

[Mario Kart]

I would hope that 99% of the population can agree that the 2020 election is important, however, the 2018 election turned out to be great for our country because it stalled whatever the Republicans had cooked up. Since the Republican Senate refuses, for about 9 years now, to do much of anything for the citizenry, the best result for 2020 is for some Progressive movement forward. And, I say "Progressive" lightly because anything proposed to help The People will be looked at as Progressive. The Right has moved the meter so far to the right that anything, even things Reagan would be for, are looked at as Progressive.

 

[timschochet]

I think it can be important if it removes the dumb 2nd hand/no evidence of QPQ, 

After listening to Rich Lowry (National Review) on Meet the Press this morning, I’ve changed my mind. I think you’re on to something here. 

The main argument of the “reasonable Republican” is now: what Trump did by asking about Biden (not about Crowdstrike) was bad and stupid, but so long as there’s no quid pro quo it does not rise to the level of impeachable offense, especially not with an election coming up: leave it to the public to decide. 

I think they stick with this unless and until  there is CLEAR first hand evidence of a quid pro quo. Which they will do everything they can to deny. 

 

[KCitons]

Lighten up Francis. 

Dont you mean Frances?

 

[Gr00vus]

Seems like this...

This is the 'substantial post' which characterized trump supporters, me or other posters here:  

"whoring out our greatness to Russia, China and Saudi Arabia"

"no interest in truth or integrity, posts simply to generate a reaction and pollute the waters with misinformation and distraction."

"The harm done to our nation is either intentional..."

"Being immune to appeals to truth and patriotism"

"they delight in mocking folks who take such things seriously."

"bad-faithers"

"I argued that trying to treat this disease"

"treat the infection" 

@jon_mx blending this tactic in with his usual martyr-shtick

"purposefully distort the truth and intend to mislead",

"you can't trust that people believe what they're saying"

"I'd argue we'd be better off with none of them."

"There's only 5 or 6 and we all know who they are. All they bring to the table is garbage."

The last part was a complete and overly lengthy mischaracterization of the motives I had about posting a definition of 'defraud'.   There was way too much crap in it to consider it substantial.  The rhetoric throughout the entire post was absolutely horrible.

...is an example of the editing of someone else's post...

This thought strikes me often. What's the endgame? That whoring out our greatness to Russia, China and Saudi Arabia then asking them to investigate the "traitors...probably registered Democrats" back home who still think that's a crime has become a mainstream political philosophy worthy of debate is heartbreakingly sad. One can only hope that adding "OVVned the LiBS" to the Pledge of Allegiance will make our children's future that much brighter 

Last weekend, I made several long posts trying to prove that, here and in the country at large, we are struggling to grapple with this peculiar breed of EverTrumpian who, having no interest in truth or integrity, posts simply to generate a reaction and pollute the waters with misinformation and distraction. The harm done to our nation is either intentional or, at the very least, irrelevant. Being immune to appeals to truth and patriotism, they delight in mocking folks who take such things seriously. The mods have a particularly tough time, as, unlike over-the-top insults and bad words, it's much harder to build a case against bad faith. And then they have to discipline those who, out of frustration, cross the line in lashing out at the bad-faithers because, well, those are the rules. It's the ultimate triple-lindy for the EverTrumper: banishment of the adversary, bonus points from their brood, and the structure, created to support good faith and meritorious arguments, has been turned on the very people fighting to save it and thus becomes further ricketier. Over time, the tone goes further and further downhill as good discussion becomes harder to find and good posters leave rather than put up with the exasperation. I argued that trying to treat this disease with the tools created to treat traditional line-stepping was ineffective and helped to normalize their behavior, but I have to admit I don't have an alternative that seems particularly promising. Until then we just have to fight them with the truth and show the few left in power trying to treat the infection that they aren't alone.

When I saw @jon_mx blending this tactic in with his usual martyr-shtick, it raised an eyebrow as, rightly or wrongly, I'd assumed he'd managed to retain a whisp of appreciation for right and wrong. When I asked him about it he proclaimed his innocence and returned to the tired lecture on his own devotion to facts and logic, our lack of the same, and the further deterioration of "this place" into a cess-pool. I was still skeptical, but it sounded like the jon I used to know.

I haven't been here much this week, but it seems that while the noose has continued to tighten,  the claims of "not a crime!" have only gotten louder as they are stretched to apply to evermore blatant and egregious abuses. The argument that systematic abuse of the powers granted to the Executive branch was so preposterous and beyond the powers of imagination of our forefathers that laws against such a grievous threat to our nation had never been codified seemed preposterous to me, but I'm no lawyer so I accepted that assessment on faith. Well, that was dumb.

I knew at some point the law and precedent had been bandied about, so I endeavored to find that part of the thread to ensure I'd understood it correctly. Well, who should appear but our old friend "Facts and Logic" Jon to set me straight! Praise the Lord, as without him around to drain the cesspool we'd all drown in liberal tears.

Wait a second...see the "Hass, 216 U.S. at 479-480." right at the top? Now, I'm no lawyer,  but I'm pretty sure that's a citation and citations go at the end of things. And that "." looks suspiciously like a period. Hmmm.

Now, had the law began and ended with the part he quoted, perhaps his argument would hold water. But when "facts and logic" turn into lies of omission, I'd posit that the truth probably isn't on your side. If you include the lines immediately before and after jon's "cherry-picked" quote from  the Department of Justice's definition of Conspiracy to Defraud the United States you're left with a decidedly different opinion of what is and isn't a crime (Robert Barr must not have gotten around to this part yet).

Now while I've had my share of warning points and bannings, I have to admit the rules keep this place from becoming a sewer like 99% of the other places on the internet that allow comments. I would argue that posts like @jon_mx 's here,  that purposefully distort the truth and intend to mislead, are infinitely worse than a bad word or two and directly attack what makes a message board healthy: good faith posting. If you can't trust that people believe what they're saying, what's the point of listening?

I don't know that I'd support banning him (at least not before he's had a chance to reply), but if anything deserves the hammer it's stuff like this. It attacks and degrades the very heart of what makes this place special and  is an insult to what @Joe 8ryant has done for us and is trying to keep alive. I know trying to keep this place ideologically balanced, but if you have to turn a blind eye to stuff like this I'd argue we'd be better off with none of them. The one's who's motives are clear I mean. There's only 5 or 6 and we all know who they are. All they bring to the table is garbage.

Back to the law, now that we know what it actually says, I'd say there's a veritable cornucopia of actions taken by Trump and the rest of the StupidWatergate Crew that this would apply to, including burying Whistleblower Reports from Intelligence Officers about the President's conduct, deep-sixing a Criminal Referral by the General Counsel of the CIA regrding the same, hiding the transcript of that conduct on a server reserved for the most sensitive National Security Secrets, recruiting non-government employees to subvert the State Department, then fired the Ambassador to Ukraine when Giuliani complained, meanwhile, a second whistle blower called foul on the Treasury Department for manipulating Trump's tax returns and refusing to turn them over as required by law, and Trump's complaints about second-hand information have a third whistle blower mulling coming forward with more detailed, firsthand report.

Let me remind you that Trump can de-classify anything he wants and there's nothing we can do about it. I'd forgotten that he extended that power to Barr several weeks ago. How much do you think the stuff on that top-secret server are worth? At least several dozen Trump Towers.

I could go on for pages with this stuff. There's alarm bells going off and red lights flashing everywhere. When is enough enough?

I can already hear the cries of "Fake News", so let me remind you that the Mueller Report confirmed every shred of the MSM's reporting on Trump and Russia (except for Mueller objected to BuzzFeed's reporting that Trump "ordered" Cohen to lie to Congress because Trump used coded language, you know, like a criminal). Of course, the Mueller Report also details dozens of times Trump lied about Russia and Russians and 10 ways in which he obstructed justice, yet this supposedly exonerates the President and embarrasses Democrats for bringing it up.

Trump got people to believe the real news was fake news so he could fill them with his "Real News" that was actually fake. It worked so well he's trying it again, and the people he duped are proud of it and happy to help (talk about embarrassing).

Trump got people to believe the United States was run by the "Deep State", so he got rid of (most of) the real government and installed his own Deep State. And people cheered. What a hero. I've never been so proud.

Yesterday, Trump quietly gave Poland Most Favored Immigration status. Why, you ask? Read this excellent Atlantic article from a year ago on what's been going on over there and you'll know why.  If you replaced Warsaw with Washington you'd swear it was written about America today.

Now we know the endgame our children will inherit.

...in an attempt to paint the original poster in a bad light by removing the context of and mischaracterizing the entirety of their post.

I'm pretty sure we're not supposed to do stuff like that around here, but a @FBG Moderator can correct that assumption if I'm wrong on it.

What I'm certain of is that you, @jon_mx, doing that is a stark example of exactly why so many people have a problem with your posting style. It's not mainly the content of your posts, it's the predominantly aggravating way you conduct yourself. This is a perfect example of that. You make cogent points often enough. I just wish you'd present them without all the other histrionics which usually accompany them. Maybe take a moment to self reflect and see if an adjustment to the way you convey your messages is in order, for all our sakes.

 

[Christo]

Cover up?  If the full transcipt was revealed how can you say it was a cover up?

Seriously? There's no such thing as a full transcript. There wasn't an objective court reporter there taking down everything word-for-word. People beholden to Trump put together a "rough transcript."

 

[Sheriff Bart]

The forum wasn't crying.

I need a little, a little more, than a one night stand. 

 

[Sinn Fein]

Somewhat related - but this is something I missed earlier this week:

A federal judge has ordered the White House to preserve a wide range of evidence about President Donald Trump’s dealings with foreign leaders, including his interactions related to Ukraine that have fueled an impeachment investigation in the House.

U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson issued the order Thursday, directing that White House officials not destroy records of “meetings, phone calls, and other communications with foreign leaders.”

The judge’s order also appears to specifically address reports that the Trump White House set up a special system to limit access to certain records of presidential conversations with foreign leaders.

Jackson, an appointee of President Barack Obama, instructed the White House to preserve “all records of efforts by White House or other executive branch officials to return, ‘claw back,’ ’lock down’ or recall White House records” about dealings with foreign officials.

The order came in a lawsuit filed in May by the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, as well as two history-focused organizations: the National Security Archive and the Society for the History of American Foreign Relations. The suit alleged that the White House was failing to maintain and putting at risk records of presidential actions required to be documented by the Presidential Records Act.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/05/judge-trump-records-foreign-leaders-031255

The last I had heard of this story was pre-Order where it seemed Judge Jackson was satisfied with DOJ's assurances in court.  It seems she wanted a little more assurance - and while laws already require Trump and the White House to maintain and preserve these records - the order puts a little more bite into the requirement.

 

[zoonation]

That's what everyone thinks right now, because there's no opponent yet.  And the Republicans are busily trying to vilify every candidate the Democrats have, which is exactly why trump was digging up Biden dirt in the first place. 

But by election time, this will be another "lesser of two evils" election.  If it's Warren, they'll hammer the pocahontas thing, but they'll be telling every story they can about how she'll destroy the economy and the taxes and businesses leaving in droves and crying socialism and liberal baby killing, gun stealing, business hating anti americanism.

They've laid the groundwork with their base but when the people who stand to lose money in a wealth tax and the businesses that stand to lose money to regulation start attacking her it will be "look i don't like trump as a person but look at the economy, do you want to see what happens when Warren holds the purse strings", totally ignoring things like the debt we've gone into to fund tax cuts under trump. 

Great post.  This is my biggest worry right here.   I still think that the Dems can flip enough people to squeeze out a win.  But polls will not tell us anything in advance because the people who do exactly what BF says would never admit it.   

 

[krista4]

Like I said, I just don’t care about being nice anymore. No disrespect to women, but the behavior is indicative of high levels of estrogen. I’m just saying. 

But you are.

Yep.  "No offense but..." statements are inevitably followed by something offensive, similar to "I'm not racist but..." statements.  While I agree that jon's martyr stuff can be tiresome (and I say that as someone who appreciates jon's substantive postings), this is not "punching back."  It's flailing about wildly, might I even say over-emotionally.

This thread, like most in this forum, would be 1000% better if it were about the subject at hand rather than about other posters.  Sorry to contribute to the derailment here.

 

[timschochet]

Yep.  "No offense but..." statements are inevitably followed by something offensive, similar to "I'm not racist but..." statements.  While I agree that jon's martyr stuff is tiresome (and I say that as someone who appreciates jon's substantive postings), this is not "punching back."  It's flailing about wildly, might I even say over-emotionally.

This thread, like most in this forum, would be 1000% better if it were about the subject at hand rather than about other posters.  Sorry to contribute to the derailment here.

You didn’t. Excellent post. 

 

[adonis]

Right now people who “don’t support Donald Trump” choose between him and “not him” in their own minds. 

In an election, they choose between him and an actual candidate. 

I didn’t support Hillary Clinton as a candidate, but I certainly voted for her over Trump.  There will be people who do the same rather than vote for Bernie or Biden or Warren or Buttigieg or Harris.  I’m interested to see where the dividing line is. 

I sadly suspect the most convincing democratic offering for those folks would be a Biden option.

 

[adonis]

The forum wasn't crying.

Stigmata?

 

[The Commish]

Yep.  "No offense but..." statements are inevitably followed by something offensive, similar to "I'm not racist but..." statements.  While I agree that jon's martyr stuff can be tiresome (and I say that as someone who appreciates jon's substantive postings), this is not "punching back."  It's flailing about wildly, might I even say over-emotionally.

This thread, like most in this forum, would be 1000% better if it were about the subject at hand rather than about other posters.  Sorry to contribute to the derailment here.

I am done responding to some people here.  Nothing beneficial ever comes of it as they are dug in, hellbent to man the fort with respect to their own perception.  The sort of person who doesn't think they have a part in the problems and/or sort of person who intentionally mischaracterizes posts to fit a narrative simply aren't worth the time.  

 

[adonis]

Chem trail, Alt-R, sen Ron Johnson totally lost it on meet the press.  Pretty sure he may try hiding in Antarctica soon to evade the deep state.

Was on CNN saying he has no faith in the FBI or CIA. 

Along with our POTUS who is enlisting foreign governments to undermine the findings of our intelligence community, while also attempting to have investigations opened into their political opposition.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is America in 2019.

 

[McJose]

Yep.  "No offense but..." statements are inevitably followed by something offensive, similar to "I'm not racist but..." statements.  While I agree that jon's martyr stuff can be tiresome (and I say that as someone who appreciates jon's substantive postings), this is not "punching back."  It's flailing about wildly, might I even say over-emotionally.

This thread, like most in this forum, would be 1000% better if it were about the subject at hand rather than about other posters.  Sorry to contribute to the derailment here.

What’s your 29th favorite Beatle song featuring piano?

 

[jon_mx]

I am done responding to some people here.  Nothing beneficial ever comes of it as they are dug in, hellbent to man the fort with respect to their own perception.  The sort of person who doesn't think they have a part in the problems and/or sort of person who intentionally mischaracterizes posts to fit a narrative simply aren't worth the time.  

Is this a post about other posters where you giving a "good posting" to a post saying how much better this forum would be without postings about other posters?  

 

[McJose]

IS THIS POST ABOUT ME!?!?!?

 

[adonis]

What’s your 29th favorite Beatle song featuring piano?

Revolution #9?