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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (2 Viewers)

bostonfred said:
The Daily Mail is reporting that kushner gave MBS the green light to arrest Khashoggi, Turkey knew, and Erdogan used that as blackmail to get trump to pull troops out. 

If this is true, impeachment and removal can't wait.  Our commander in chief being compromised and making military decisions for his personal gain is the nightmare scenario. 

But even if it's not true, the president actually withheld military aid from a country for personal gain. 

"It's just Ukraine" is a horrifying argument to begin with.  But if this is true then who knows how many other mysteries will be solved when we find out what trump got in return for selling out our country. This is a guy who just privations to withhold aid from a state while it's on fire. Is that because he disagrees with their politics?  
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Wouldn’t be shocked if this was true. Always suspected that he was blackmailed into doing it, but expected it to be something about his properties in Turkey.

But if this story has legs, I think there’s a legit chance they vote to remove him. He’s toxic and will only get worse if he survives this and gets another 4 years.

 
Sinn Fein said:
lol - I was reading somewhere else that he eschews the known Australia strategy for the only slightly lesser-known South America strategy.
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I’d counter with the North America gambit. Game Set Match.  Come on Pete going to need better if I can trust you with the nuke codes.

 
Biff84 said:
Wouldn’t be shocked if this was true. Always suspected that he was blackmailed into doing it, but expected it to be something about his properties in Turkey.

But if this story has legs, I think there’s a legit chance they vote to remove him. He’s toxic and will only get worse if he survives this and gets another 4 years.
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My God if they aquit on impeachment that gives him the absolute green light to GO BONKERS. Like....ALL THE WAY MORE BONKERS THAN EVEN NOW. Like start watching what you say because they'll come for you BONKERS.  

 
Jackstraw said:
My God if they aquit on impeachment that gives him the absolute green light to GO BONKERS. Like....ALL THE WAY MORE BONKERS THAN EVEN NOW. Like start watching what you say because they'll come for you BONKERS.  
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Unfortunately that’s the most likely scenario. When someone thinks they are above the law, the last thing you want to do is prove them right.

 
bostonfred said:
It's not just an accusation, it's the allegation that one of the whistleblowers came forward with this.  If this is true, and if they have evidence, it's enormous. 
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If it's true, and they have evidence, it'll be among the biggest scandals in American political history.

But it just sounds too far out there right now.

 
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adonis said:
If it's true, and they have evidence, it'll be among the biggest scandals in American political history.

But it just sounds too far out there right now.
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Agreed but it’s not unusual. 

In the history of this forum, every time there is a real scandal involving a President or some other major political figure, there are always rumors or unfounded stories about a deeper, even more serious scandal, and quite often it is the latter scandal that receives the greater amount of discussion. This “hidden” scandal almost always turns out to be worthless, and when that is determined it gives the defenders of the politician  added ammunition against the original scandal. 

 
Testimony is being released:

Washington, DC – Today, Rep. Adam B. Schiff, the Chairman of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Rep. Eliot L. Engel, the Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Affairs, and Rep. Carolyn Maloney, the Acting Chairwoman of the Committee on Oversight and Reform, released the transcripts of former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie “Masha” Yovanovitch and former Senior Advisor to the Secretary of State Ambassador P. Michael McKinley.

Yovanovitch

ETA: McKinley

 
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John Blutarsky said:
All that matters is to see what happens in 2020.
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Totally agree. All that matters is what happens in 6 states really, and President Trump (despite all the smears, fear mongering and phony outrage) is hold up amazing in the New York Times new poll. 

Bloomberg) -- Donald Trump is competitive in head-to-head match ups with top Democrats in six key battleground states, according to a new set of New York Times/Siena College polls. Across Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida, Arizona and North Carolina -- the six states that Trump won most narrowly in 2016 -- the president trails Joe Biden by an average of two percentage points among registered voters -- within the margin of error.
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https://news.yahoo.com/only-biden-tops-trump-battleground-113503041.html

 
The Commish said:
Did you guys discuss the whistleblower reaching out via attorneys to do a direct 1:1 with them via written questions and answers?  I'm puzzled as to why the GOP would reject that.  What is their excuse, er defense, for that decision?  Sorry...wasn't around a ton this weekend and wasn't really keeping up with the current events.
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You can't grandstand or insult said whistleblower if he/she is just answering written questions.

 
sn0mm1s said:
You can't grandstand or insult said whistleblower if he/she is just answering written questions.
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Which is exactly what the Dems wanted with what has now proven to be a bogus Russian investigation.

 
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TripItUp said:
Which is exactly what the Dems wanted with what has now proven to be a bogus Russian investigation.
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 Dems didn't really get to do anything during the Russia investigation. Mueller had nothing to do with the Dems and House and Senate were Republican controlled. Also, I would hardly say the investigation was bogus - from all I have read it was spineless and with no teeth. 

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
Sinn Fein said:
Former Amb. Yovanovitch testified that when she asked Sondland for advice, he recommended that if she wanted to save her job, she should tweet out her support or praise for Trump.
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Signs of a cult 

4. Seeking inappropriate loyalty to their leaders
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This also appears in authoritarian regimes and third world tinpot dictatorships.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I guess that's confusing part. You're saying nothing about the testimony itself, which is what's at issue here. IMO I'd think you would look at the testimony to evaluate the worthiness of the investigation.
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That certainly seems how normal things are done.

Credible allegations of wrondgoing. Merits an investigation.  Investigation produces evidence or a lack thereof.  Maybe results of investigation lead to further legal proceedings.

At the end of it, you evaluate an investigations merit.

It seems Trump and his PR folks want us to evaluate the merits of an investigation based on the word of the subject of the investigation.

 
TripItUp said:
Which is exactly what the Dems wanted with what has now proven to be a bogus Russian investigation.
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Would you mind connecting the dots between this whistleblower approach and the Russia investigation please?  Not sure I am following.  They seem to be completely different from one another in just about every conceivable way other than our POTUS being involved in both.  Thanks.

 
The Commish said:
Would you mind connecting the dots between this whistleblower approach and the Russia investigation please?  Not sure I am following.  They seem to be completely different from one another in just about every conceivable way other than our POTUS being involved in both.  Thanks.
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In both investigations, Trump came out hard and early against the investigations.  Calling them unfounded, saying he was being persecuted.

In both cases, supporters of his seem more than willing to take his word for it before any evidence is gathered, and to suspect anyone providing information or evidence of being part of the deep state, or never-trumpers, or an angry democrat.

Trump successfully seems to convince many of his supporters that he's continually the victim of biased people trying to take him down unfairly.  No matter how reputable the folks are, no matter their GOP bonafides, no matter their war-hero status, no matter their long commitment to our country, no matter their own personal reputations they're putting on the line, no matter if it's a single person or our entire intelligence community.  For many Trump supporters, the entire world of truth revolves around Trump.

 
The General said:
I’d counter with the North America gambit. Game Set Match.  Come on Pete going to need better if I can trust you with the nuke codes.
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As always it kinda depends on where your pieces get set initially but North America is definitely the tops in my book. 

 
Heard a great analogy over the weekend about the whistleblower.

Maybe posted before, but the whistleblower is like somebody calling 911 to report a crime. Or a bank manager pressing the silent alarm button with the bank robbers in the bank.

Once the police get there and see the crime is in process, who called is irrelevant. Sane with the whistleblower,  they called about the crime and the crime has been corabetted(sp) by other witnesses

 
Shimon Prokupecz@ShimonPro · 3m

This is very important in trying to understand why corrupt Ukrainians were pushing to remove Yovanovitch. She wasn’t doing what they wanted. Potentially a larger conspiracy here that has been broadly touched in the SDNY indictment of Giuliani’s associates.

https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1191425003633418246

I wonder what would happen if Biden reached out to Zelenskyy, and asked if Ukraine could start an investigation into Giuliani and Trump for potential corruption.  :popcorn:

 
Also in the transcripts are references to Giuliani's acquaintances possibly promoting illegal/shady business opportunities.

 
Ted Lieu @tedlieu · Oct 8

Congress can impeach for Obstruction. But that still doesn't allow us to compel witnesses & documents for the trial. We have the power of inherent contempt, which includes fines & jail. That would give us a chance at compliance.

I remain baffled why we still don't use it.

Nods approvingly.

 
Nahal Toosi‏Verified account @nahaltoosi

P. 117: Yovanovitch was told Pompeo or aide would call “Mr. Hannity on FOX News to say, you know, what is going on? I mean, do you have proof of these kinds of allegations or not? & if you have proof, you know, telI me, and if not, stop. & I understand that that call was made.”

10:39 AM - 4 Nov 2019
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- eta - Basically, our Sec. of State and his staff had no idea why Yovanovitch was being attacked or where it was coming from.... so they called Sean Hannity to find out.

 
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I should add - I think the :tinfoilhat:  crowd will be out in force by the end of the month.

There does seem to be a "loosely" coordinated attempt to bring a lot of heat on Trump at the exact same moment:

1.  Releasing transcripts

2.  Holding Open hearings

3.  "Anonymous" book published by mid November

4.  Trump accuser files suit for Defamation

5.  Circuit court rules Trump accountants must turn over Taxes

6.  Court rules DOJ must release grand jury testimony to Congress.

7.  Other "stuff" being leaked - that true, or not, is going to play on the public perception of Trump and his administration.

 
I was thinking about this today - I don't like the Dem's plan on Obstruction of Congress - by simply moving on without any effort to compel attendance and document production.

But, I will accept there is a narrow path here for the Dems to make the case stick - if they have compelling testimony from the peripheral witnesses.  They could put pubic pressure on witnesses to rebut the fact witnesses, or leave their version of facts as the de facto truth.  The danger with that approach is still going into a public hearing without "knowing" how a witness will respond, and I think that is not a great strategy.  You would prefer to have them locked into some story - via deposition or documents, long before the public hearing.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I was thinking about this today - I don't like the Dem's plan on Obstruction of Congress - by simply moving on without any effort to compel attendance and document production.

But, I will accept there is a narrow path here for the Dems to make the case stick - if they have compelling testimony from the peripheral witnesses.  They could put pubic pressure on witnesses to rebut the fact witnesses, or leave their version of facts as the de facto truth.  The danger with that approach is still going into a public hearing without "knowing" how a witness will respond, and I think that is not a great strategy.  You would prefer to have them locked into some story - via deposition or documents, long before the public hearing.
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Yep.  Hopefully they have examiners who are on their respective games because this situation isn't ideal. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
I should add - I think the :tinfoilhat:  crowd will be out in force by the end of the month.

There does seem to be a "loosely" coordinated attempt to bring a lot of heat on Trump at the exact same moment:

1.  Releasing transcripts

2.  Holding Open hearings

3.  "Anonymous" book published by mid November

4.  Trump accuser files suit for Defamation

5.  Circuit court rules Trump accountants must turn over Taxes

6.  Court rules DOJ must release grand jury testimony to Congress.

7.  Other "stuff" being leaked - that true, or not, is going to play on the public perception of Trump and his administration.
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Isn't this sort of like a normal Monday in the Trump years?

 
Trump is polling at 55% disapproval on 538's aggregator.  Other than the Trump shutdown (right before he surrendered) that's the highest it's been since February 2018.  Still don't think the drop means much until it gets to ~58%, but worth watching.

 
Sinn Fein said:
BREAKING: Republicans consider moving Jim Jordan to House Intelligence Committee https://cbsn.ws/2WGwTES

Also Breaking: Republicans just realized Nunes has been beat down by a fake cow.
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If Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy were to temporarily assign Jordan to the Intelligence Committee, he would have to make room for him by removing a current member. The move would also undermine Devin Nunes, the committee's top Republican. McCarthy has sole discretion over Intelligence Committee assignments.
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Odd stuff.

 
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