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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (7 Viewers)

timschochet said:
Tactical question: everybody knows this is going to end in a day or so. Trump wants it done by tomorrow so that he can have a triumphant State of the Union address on Tuesday. Schumer could maybe spoil that with parliamentary tricks, which would serve no purpose other than to delay things into next week. But while this would infuriate Trump, it would also be unfair to Sanders, Warren, and Klobuchar (and if Biden were to win Iowa you can be sure the conspiracy theorists will jump on it and accuse Schumer of deliberately trying to keep Bernie in Washington.) 

So what should Chuck do? 
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Use every parliamentary tool he has.

 
timschochet said:
@Ditkaless Wonders let me clarify my last question: 

If your view of Donald Trump is equal to mine (essentially that a second term could be an existential threat to the United States) and you live in a battleground state, and you believe that your vote for an independent or not voting at all could possibly help Trump win that state, then I believe you owe a duty to the country to cast your vote for the Democrat whoever that is. But otherwise no duty whatsoever. 
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1974 the country thoroughly rebuked the GOP, and in 1992 the country penalized Bush Sr. for Iran Contra. Hopefully something similar happens here.

 
Juxtatarot said:
You guys often lump Sanders and Warren together, but it seems lots of people view them differently.  When I look at favorability polls, Sanders always rates higher.  People just like him more than Warren.  Voters don't just react to placement on the political spectrum. 
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I hate to say this but a lot of that is sexism. 

Both are idealists. Both are arrogant. Both are very condescending to those that disagree with them. Both speak in almost schoolmarmish tones. Both have made assertions about their personal history that are questionable at best, dishonest at worst. 

But our society says these attributes are generally more acceptable in a man than in a woman. We tend to dislike women more who display these attributes. 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I have been toying for some time with the thought of casting my first vote for a Democrat for President ever in my lifetime if mayor Pete got the nomination.   do not know that I would, but I have given it serious thought and I believe that I might.  Any of the other candidates get nominated and I will vote third party once again. 
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Actually Klobuchar, Mayor Pete have appealed to me but I like what I see from Bloomberg. He has the funds and the b$$#s to go toe to toe with Trump. Would be my first vote for a Democratic Presidential candidate and I am old enough to have placed my first vote for Ford in 76’. I would likely vote for Sanders or Warren but considering the fact I now see the Senate possibly up for grabs for Democrats so it would be a vote with reservations. 

 
lazyike said:
Actually Klobuchar, Mayor Pete have appealed to me but I like what I see from Bloomberg. He has the funds and the b$$#s to go toe to toe with Trump. Would be my first vote for a Democratic Presidential candidate and I am old enough to have placed my first vote for Ford in 76’. I would likely vote for Sanders or Warren but considering the fact I now see the Senate possibly up for grabs for Democrats so it would be a vote with reservations. 
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It appears we are contemporaries.

 
JuniorNB said:
Personally, I do not think the Dems have it in the bag. I think it's probably going to be pretty tough to beat him. He has the benefit of a good economy (he can thank Obama) plus foreign countries helping him again. Possibly even corrupting the voting system.  But when you see the level of corruption going through the entire Republican party, enabling him to be above the law and rule like a dictator, I simply have to believe there's a price for that. I guess I'm a naive optimist, but I have to go through life believing that evil gets punished and goodness wins out in the end or I would jump off a bridge. 
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The Dow closed out Wednesday’s action, following the signing of the first phase of a multi-staged trade pact between China and the U.S., up 0.3% to 29,030.22, a gain of 90.55 points.

Thanks Obama.....

 
timschochet said:
I hate to say this but a lot of that is sexism. 

Both are idealists. Both are arrogant. Both are very condescending to those that disagree with them. Both speak in almost schoolmarmish tones. Both have made assertions about their personal history that are questionable at best, dishonest at worst. 

But our society says these attributes are generally more acceptable in a man than in a woman. We tend to dislike women more who display these attributes. 
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After we reform the US electoral system and get D1 football and basketball players their fair share of the loot, the next target of we SJWers is the American patriarchy.

@fatguyinalittlecoat, I'll be bringing this up at Wednesday's meeting.

 
House Managers making hay with Cipillone claiming they were hiding the facts when he himself was in the room with Bolton and is doing his best to hide that conversation.  With any other judge or jury this would be huge.

 
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Murkowski is just giving Roberts cover. 
 

He’s taking heat for it, but I thought Rubio’s statement was OK. With the caveat that refusing to vote for a “partisan impeachment” is some world class question begging. 

 
timschochet said:
I hate to say this but a lot of that is sexism. 

Both are idealists. Both are arrogant. Both are very condescending to those that disagree with them. Both speak in almost schoolmarmish tones. Both have made assertions about their personal history that are questionable at best, dishonest at worst. 

But our society says these attributes are generally more acceptable in a man than in a woman. We tend to dislike women more who display these attributes. 
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Sexism likely is part of it but I think there is a lot more to it.  Many people think Bernie is more honest than Warren, for example.  

Regardless, though, my original point remains.  I think Bernie has a much better chance to beat Trump than Warren.  Bernie is also polling well head-to-head vs. Trump in the swing states. Better than Warren.  Looks at Wisconsin and Michigan, for example:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/wi/wisconsin_trump_vs_warren-6852.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/wi/wisconsin_trump_vs_sanders-6850.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_sanders-6768.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_warren-6769.html

 
Juxtatarot said:
You guys often lump Sanders and Warren together, but it seems lots of people view them differently.  When I look at favorability polls, Sanders always rates higher.  People just like him more than Warren.  Voters don't just react to placement on the political spectrum. 
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I lump them together because of their plans for healthcare. Eliminating private insurance is a losing platform in the general election. 

 
TheMagus said:
I can't seem to find it definitively anywhere in 2015 news articles, but I am fairly certain that on the trip where Biden made this ultimatum, he was with a bipartisan delegation from Congress, including Senator Ron Johnson (R).
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I believe this is correct.  I'm interested in trying to understand why people think these are similar enough for a 1:1 comparison.

 
Between the Russian investigation and now the impeachment debacle, Its like watching the nerdy kid (democrats) tryout for the baseball team, where he continually swings and misses. You are sitting in the bleachers praying to God to let him just get a piece of it, a foul ball...anything, but nope swing and a miss over and over again. Agonizing for everyone involved.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Because the Democrats have to nominate an actual candidate to run against Trump, and the people most likely be nominated are terrible.  It's like our political parties completely lost the ability to select reasonable candidates.
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I agreed in 2016 but there’s still several that don’t fall in to the terrible camp, IMO.  You can disagree with their policies but this is more business as usual POTUS candidates (at least the more central ones).

I should note that I find all of them to be non-horrible but I get the concerns of someone like you about Bernie and Warren.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Between the Russian investigation and now the impeachment debacle, Its like watching the nerdy kid (democrats) tryout for the baseball team, where he continually swings and misses. You are sitting in the bleachers praying to God to let him just get a piece of it, a foul ball...anything, but nope swing and a miss over and over again. Agonizing for everyone involved.
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It's more like they are crushing it 400 feet so the fences get moved back to 800 feet. 

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Not an attack an analogy
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But the analogy is they're smart kids who can't play baseball and they keep swinging and missing. I agree, the Trump ideology is about sheer power. It was about a republic and a Constitution, where learning and principle matter - but as you put it the proper analogy is that the Dems have just been overpowered, is that right?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
But the analogy is they're smart kids who can't play baseball and they keep swinging and missing. I agree, the Trump ideology is about sheer power. It was about a republic and a Constitution, where learning and principle matter - but as you put it the proper analogy is that the Dems have just been overpowered, is that right?
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I would say socially inept. But yes the expression Might Makes Right was coined for a reason

 
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