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***OFFICIAL The Leftovers, New HBO show Thread *** (1 Viewer)

I can believe Nora's story just because I don't have a compelling reason not to. Without some real evidence, it's as good a story as any.

I loved the show, the acting, the weirdness. However, I'm disappointed that in the end there was no explanation for how or why the departures happened. Maybe I missed it because it wasn't obvious enough for me.

 
her egg sandwich looked really good
It did, but her method of eating it was moronic. Holding it that vertical when biting into it so the egg pours onto the plate, and doesn't pool within the sandwich? Come on. Where's the realism?

 
It did, but her method of eating it was moronic. Holding it that vertical when biting into it so the egg pours onto the plate, and doesn't pool within the sandwich? Come on. Where's the realism?
That pouris what made it look so good. But yeah

 
This is where I'm at.  It was a coping mechanism for her. Matt knew and kept her secret till his death. 
They made a point of having us hear him say that he'd tell people whatever she wanted him to tell them.  Also, that technology fails constantly around her, the fact that Kevin would have "believed" her whether he really did or not in hopes of rekindling their romance, etc.  There are plenty of things to grab onto if you want to take the "Nora story was BS" standpoint.

 
Nora didn't depart.  But the Nora in the parallel world did.  But to where?

I guess it doesn't matter.  She never crossed over anyway.  Just told Kevin that.
I think a lot of people are thinking that the departed from each world went to the other world. But that couldn't be the case because then there would be 2 of each person who departed in whichever world they went to. I don't think that is supposed to be the case, so I think the departed from each world went someplace besides the parallel world. It that's true, and Nora really did cross over, then the kids and husband she saw weren't really hers. Under those circumstances, not trying to insert herself into their world makes sense, especially since they appeared to be happy.

I don't believe she did cross over, because the last second we saw of her in the event chamber she seemed to be gasping for air above the water line and possibly on the verge of screaming. If she wanted to proceed with the cross over she was supposed to hold her breath. I guess she could have been taking her last gasp of air in preparation of holding her breath but that wasn't my impression. That quick cut reminded me of the last second of the Sopranos finale. Imagine if they would have ended finale last night at exactly that point. :shock:

 
If they showed it, viewers would infer her story was the truth. We didn't see Nora submerged in the machine. We also spent half the episode thinking Kevin was some sort of amnesiac. She could have been BS'ing.

Then again, Kevin died and came back a bunch of times. Maybe she did go to the other side and come back.
I never got the sense that anything she said wasn't exactly how it happened.  It pretty much had to because she had to go somewhere in the machine or Matt and everyone would have seen her or all lied to cover it up.  Either way, I thought it would have been better if they spent the time following her timeline in with "the others", while showing the current timeline with how they dealt with her leaving and ultimately moved on, except for Kevin who at the end would have found her for her to tell that story.

 
Did you notice throughout the season all the technology that malfunctioned around Nora?  Not a shocker that it wouldnt work. 
i am ok with a story going away from being plot-driven and rather trying to tell about the experience.

Not ok with writers making up random super powers for people on a show that are never really articulated. 

 
I think a lot of people are thinking that the departed from each world went to the other world. But that couldn't be the case because then there would be 2 of each person who departed in whichever world they went to. I don't think that is supposed to be the case, so I think the departed from each world went someplace besides the parallel world. It that's true, and Nora really did cross over, then the kids and husband she saw weren't really hers. Under those circumstances, not trying to insert herself into their world makes sense, especially since they appeared to be happy.

I don't believe she did cross over, because the last second we saw of her in the event chamber she seemed to be gasping for air above the water line and possibly on the verge of screaming. If she wanted to proceed with the cross over she was supposed to hold her breath. I guess she could have been taking her last gasp of air in preparation of holding her breath but that wasn't my impression. That quick cut reminded me of the last second of the Sopranos finale. Imagine if they would have ended finale last night at exactly that point. :shock:
yeah- that first paragraph doesn't make any sense. they explained it pretty explicitly... a small percentage of the world disappeared. if you take Nora's story as true... they went to a parallel world where it was the remaining large percentage that disappeared. there are no duplicates, just two identical worlds that house the two groups of people.

second paragraph- it's purposefully ambiguous, which is the best part. maybe she bailed out last second... and is lying to kevin about the there and back story. maybe she went through with it and it's true. maybe she went through with it and it was all bs/didn't work- and she made up the story for kevin. 

 
I never got the sense that anything she said wasn't exactly how it happened.  It pretty much had to because she had to go somewhere in the machine or Matt and everyone would have seen her or all lied to cover it up.  Either way, I thought it would have been better if they spent the time following her timeline in with "the others", while showing the current timeline with how they dealt with her leaving and ultimately moved on, except for Kevin who at the end would have found her for her to tell that story.
We never saw the machine tested on anyone but Nora. We don't know that it works at all. We don't even know if Nora went through with it or called it off. The only people watching were Matt and the two scientists. So if she called it off, or if the machine doesn't work, what's the cover up? Matt already agreed to say whatever Nora wanted, and the scientists aren't going to tell everyone their machine doesn't work.

I don't think she went through with it, and I see her story as allegorical, basically a reverse "grass is greener on the other side." Her story was about a parallel world where 98 percent of the people disappeared, where everything was the same except that society's normal functions were severely limited due to there not being enough people to fill the necessary jobs to keep things going (i.e., pilots to fly passenger planes). The loss was tremendous. But in this story, the people closest to her, her family, found a way to move on. Her kids were happy. Her husband found someone else. After the Departure, Nora's livelihood was to investigate claims of whether someone actually departed, a job that a lot of times had her tearing down people dealing with loss. But she never truly dealt with her own loss. The machine gave her a chance to deal with that loss, to tell herself that there was a place where her family was able to move on without her, even though the world as they knew it, had, in a certain way, ended. Perhaps as penance or maybe in some kind of weird solidarity, she decided to live the same way -- in a remote part of the world, alone, in a rural area, where she doesn't even seem to own a car or have any real means of communicating with anyone, except by talking face to face or going to the roadside pay phone. The whole series was about how the world would deal with loss on a massive scale, but what it comes down to is how each individual deals with his/her own loss on a personal level. Kevin's last words to her in the hotel room were "maybe you should go be with them," her kids, but what she really wanted was just to know they're OK, and the hope, for her, was that the machine would give her the answer, that her kids really were OK. But if the machine didn't work, that hope would be destroyed, so she didn't go through with it. Her faith becomes what she hoped would have happened, which became what she believed would have happened, and it's the story she tells Kevin.

 
We never saw the machine tested on anyone but Nora. We don't know that it works at all. We don't even know if Nora went through with it or called it off. The only people watching were Matt and the two scientists. So if she called it off, or if the machine doesn't work, what's the cover up? Matt already agreed to say whatever Nora wanted, and the scientists aren't going to tell everyone their machine doesn't work.

I don't think she went through with it, and I see her story as allegorical, basically a reverse "grass is greener on the other side." Her story was about a parallel world where 98 percent of the people disappeared, where everything was the same except that society's normal functions were severely limited due to there not being enough people to fill the necessary jobs to keep things going (i.e., pilots to fly passenger planes). The loss was tremendous. But in this story, the people closest to her, her family, found a way to move on. Her kids were happy. Her husband found someone else. After the Departure, Nora's livelihood was to investigate claims of whether someone actually departed, a job that a lot of times had her tearing down people dealing with loss. But she never truly dealt with her own loss. The machine gave her a chance to deal with that loss, to tell herself that there was a place where her family was able to move on without her, even though the world as they knew it, had, in a certain way, ended. Perhaps as penance or maybe in some kind of weird solidarity, she decided to live the same way -- in a remote part of the world, alone, in a rural area, where she doesn't even seem to own a car or have any real means of communicating with anyone, except by talking face to face or going to the roadside pay phone. The whole series was about how the world would deal with loss on a massive scale, but what it comes down to is how each individual deals with his/her own loss on a personal level. Kevin's last words to her in the hotel room were "maybe you should go be with them," her kids, but what she really wanted was just to know they're OK, and the hope, for her, was that the machine would give her the answer, that her kids really were OK. But if the machine didn't work, that hope would be destroyed, so she didn't go through with it. Her faith becomes what she hoped would have happened, which became what she believed would have happened, and it's the story she tells Kevin.
Best post of the thread. #### maybe of any tv thread here. 

 
I think the most obvious case for "Nora was lying" is one that I think Sepinwall mentioned, although I don't remember for sure.  If the physicist built a machine to allow people to travel from one realm to the other and had the know-how to send people back to the original realm (as he did with Nora), why would he wait until Nora asked him to do it?  Who wouldn't reunite stranded children with grieving parents if they had the ability to do so?

That could have just been sloppy writing, but that seems unlikely, especially since they could have papered it over with another couple sentences of exposition (something about how he was came to realize that the two realities were a part of a larger grand design and he only agreed to send Nora back because unlike the Departed people she'd come over voluntarily or whatever). So that leaves me concluding that the writers intended the story to be Nora's, not theirs.

 
It seems like Lindelof is talking about whether what Nora said was a lie quite a bit.  Almost begging the audience to perceive this to be the true ending?

 
I think the most obvious case for "Nora was lying" is one that I think Sepinwall mentioned, although I don't remember for sure.  If the physicist built a machine to allow people to travel from one realm to the other and had the know-how to send people back to the original realm (as he did with Nora), why would he wait until Nora asked him to do it?  Who wouldn't reunite stranded children with grieving parents if they had the ability to do so?

That could have just been sloppy writing, but that seems unlikely, especially since they could have papered it over with another couple sentences of exposition (something about how he was came to realize that the two realities were a part of a larger grand design and he only agreed to send Nora back because unlike the Departed people she'd come over voluntarily or whatever). So that leaves me concluding that the writers intended the story to be Nora's, not theirs.
I already forgot - did he invent this machine with interdimensional travel in mind, or was it his idea/tech that they built upon?  I guess I figured that since he went with the departed that he didn't actually build the thing, he just had the idea and it took Nora coming to him to realize what it could do. 

 
I already forgot - did he invent this machine with interdimensional travel in mind, or was it his idea/tech that they built upon?  I guess I figured that since he went with the departed that he didn't actually build the thing, he just had the idea and it took Nora coming to him to realize what it could do. 
Good question, I don't remember much of the narrative detail about he physicist.  Anyone?

 
Now that is how you end a show.  I would put this above Sopranos just based on the ending.  There were no goofy side plots, great acting through and through and they tied everything up without forcing it.

My only question:  In the second to last episode how did Kevin stop the rain?  Or was the flood just a storyline that wasnt real?  Did the nukes in the other universe have anything to do with it?

Overall a fantastic series, 3 seasons should be the staple now of shows.  Please stop running good shows into the ground.  Get in, tell your story, finish it without getting lazy.  (looking at you Bloodline)

 
My only question:  In the second to last episode how did Kevin stop the rain?  Or was the flood just a storyline that wasnt real?  Did the nukes in the other universe have anything to do with it?
it rained... and then stopped. no flood. his dad said as much.

 
it rained... and then stopped. no flood. his dad said as much.
I got that but does that mean his dad was wrong or that Kevin stopped it in the other reality by destroying that world?  I think the assassin Kevin said something to the effect of "lets not come back here again"

 
I got that but does that mean his dad was wrong or that Kevin stopped it in the other reality by destroying that world?  I think the assassin Kevin said something to the effect of "lets not come back here again"
I took it as- the flood was never happening.

but yeah- there's definitely room to see it as Kevin affecting change somehow. 

 
We never saw the machine tested on anyone but Nora. We don't know that it works at all. We don't even know if Nora went through with it or called it off. The only people watching were Matt and the two scientists. So if she called it off, or if the machine doesn't work, what's the cover up? Matt already agreed to say whatever Nora wanted, and the scientists aren't going to tell everyone their machine doesn't work.

I don't think she went through with it, and I see her story as allegorical, basically a reverse "grass is greener on the other side." Her story was about a parallel world where 98 percent of the people disappeared, where everything was the same except that society's normal functions were severely limited due to there not being enough people to fill the necessary jobs to keep things going (i.e., pilots to fly passenger planes). The loss was tremendous. But in this story, the people closest to her, her family, found a way to move on. Her kids were happy. Her husband found someone else. After the Departure, Nora's livelihood was to investigate claims of whether someone actually departed, a job that a lot of times had her tearing down people dealing with loss. But she never truly dealt with her own loss. The machine gave her a chance to deal with that loss, to tell herself that there was a place where her family was able to move on without her, even though the world as they knew it, had, in a certain way, ended. Perhaps as penance or maybe in some kind of weird solidarity, she decided to live the same way -- in a remote part of the world, alone, in a rural area, where she doesn't even seem to own a car or have any real means of communicating with anyone, except by talking face to face or going to the roadside pay phone. The whole series was about how the world would deal with loss on a massive scale, but what it comes down to is how each individual deals with his/her own loss on a personal level. Kevin's last words to her in the hotel room were "maybe you should go be with them," her kids, but what she really wanted was just to know they're OK, and the hope, for her, was that the machine would give her the answer, that her kids really were OK. But if the machine didn't work, that hope would be destroyed, so she didn't go through with it. Her faith becomes what she hoped would have happened, which became what she believed would have happened, and it's the story she tells Kevin.
So we really think these scientists would have the ability to shut off the machine like that. More for me, why would they? With all Nora went through, why allow people who sign up this, learn all about it, then leave. 

I was was curious when they highlighted all the people that have went through with this and there is no indication they are anywhere on the earth after the procedure. So do they all die and Dump the "fossils" in the ocean?

 
I got that but does that mean his dad was wrong or that Kevin stopped it in the other reality by destroying that world?  I think the assassin Kevin said something to the effect of "lets not come back here again"
So for fans of this series, would you be ok with the idea that Kevin was able to go and stop a flood? Seems like horrendous story telling to me to try and paint the emotion of this series with allowing Kevin his magic powers. 

 
Stopped watching after EP 1.  Do they ever explain why the 2% of the population disappeared?  If so, I'll probably give it a watch.

Not looking for a spoiler, just whether or not they satisfactorily answered the question.

Thanks!

 
Stopped watching after EP 1.  Do they ever explain why the 2% of the population disappeared?  If so, I'll probably give it a watch.

Not looking for a spoiler, just whether or not they satisfactorily answered the question.

Thanks!
if that's all you're after- it's not answered.

the rest of us are obviously pretty gang-buster* about the show though... but not because it needed that particular answer.

*oh right... except for tanner. he's meh about it. surprisingly.

 
I got that but does that mean his dad was wrong or that Kevin stopped it in the other reality by destroying that world?  I think the assassin Kevin said something to the effect of "lets not come back here again"
I don't think what Kevin did in his "afterlife" had any effect on anything else. The point about not going back there again was that Kevin would run away from his problems by "dying" and visiting the other place because, like Nora, he didn't know how to deal with life. He came to the conclusion he needed to face things head on instead of running away, so he nuked the other place to keep himself from being able to go back there. But at that point, he had already ran out on Nora after their fight, and he spent the ensuing years looking for her.

 
if that's all you're after- it's not answered.

the rest of us are obviously pretty gang-buster* about the show though... but not because it needed that particular answer.

*oh right... except for tanner. he's meh about it. surprisingly.
Thanks for the spoiler-free response.  There wasn't anything that grabbed me with the pilot (I kind of actively disliked it), so I'll pass.  Thanks again

 
Thanks for the spoiler-free response.  There wasn't anything that grabbed me with the pilot (I kind of actively disliked it), so I'll pass.  Thanks again
fwiw- the opening season took me and some others in here a bit of work to get through... but it got better as it progressed. S2 and 3 were top shelf.

 
fwiw- the opening season took me and some others in here a bit of work to get through... but it got better as it progressed. S2 and 3 were top shelf.
Yeah, there's a lot of people whose opinions I trust (you included) that absolutely get giddy when discussing the show (Sepinwall too)....and this wouldn't be the first show that started slow and built speed. 

 
So we really think these scientists would have the ability to shut off the machine like that. More for me, why would they? With all Nora went through, why allow people who sign up this, learn all about it, then leave. 

I was was curious when they highlighted all the people that have went through with this and there is no indication they are anywhere on the earth after the procedure. So do they all die and Dump the "fossils" in the ocean?
If Nora went around saying, "Scientists made a machine that can send a person to wherever the departed went, but I didn't go through with it, and, in fact, I don't even know where these scientists are right now or how they even constructed this machine," do you think she'd be believable?

I think the only relevant question regarding the machine is whether Nora went through with it. It's a question of faith.

 
"It makes for a better story" regarding the doves is akin to Nora's "story" about crossing over.

Allowed Kevin to move on from the hotel room.

 
As a non-believer, this was a series I always thought could lose me in the end, but I enjoyed the ride. I compare it to Battlestar Galactica in this regard. As happened with Battlestar Galactica, I pretty much expected that the ending of The Leftovers would take away from what I thought of the series overall. But that wasn't the case. The ending enhanced my view of the series, which was really an allegory for the loss we all experience with people disappearing from our lives, and how we deal with this loss or the inevitability that it's coming. Six Feet Under is a good comparison.

 
Stopped watching after EP 1.  Do they ever explain why the 2% of the population disappeared?  If so, I'll probably give it a watch.

Not looking for a spoiler, just whether or not they satisfactorily answered the question.
I'm only at season 1 episode 3, but plan to continue watching. I don't care if I find out why, I care about how the stories are told. Judging from this thread I'll be enjoying it more and more as I go through the seasons.

edited to add: I don't care about spoilers, I'll forget most or all of them before watching.

 
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The bravest girl on Earth did/said what she needed to in order to survive.

Ultimately, it gave her a chance at some happiness.

.

 
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I never got the sense that anything she said wasn't exactly how it happened.  It pretty much had to because she had to go somewhere in the machine or Matt and everyone would have seen her or all lied to cover it up.  Either way, I thought it would have been better if they spent the time following her timeline in with "the others", while showing the current timeline with how they dealt with her leaving and ultimately moved on, except for Kevin who at the end would have found her for her to tell that story.
Ya, me neither. I don't get why people think she lied. Nora said she doesn't lie and she was emphatic about that. She always seemed to be a straight shooter. I think folks are reading too much into it.

 

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