Well, since all it did was generate loss after loss, I can tell you what it means. Jack ####.
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QB Jameis Winston, NYG (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter massraider
- Start date
Capella
Footballguy
You’ll have to ask them. I’m not privy to their metrics. I imagine highest percentage of highest graded throws makes it quite unlikely he has the highest percentage of lowest grades throws. That wouldn’t make a lot of sense.
I’m guessing there is more of a correlation between having the very worst defense in the league and losing but that’s just me.
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Is he supposed to play defense too? They gave up the most yards in the league last year.
rockaction
Footballguy
Cross-post from another thread: I noticed he plays the Bears Week 4. You think mgmt. wants a rusty Winston against that front? He's sitting a game.
Chaka
Footballguy
Sure it would it all depends on what the percentages are. 50% could lead both positively-graded and negatively-graded throws. And if there are additional categories, e.g. neutrally-graded throws, then it becomes even more possible.
Nolan Ryan led the majors in strikeouts and walks in the same season six times. In three of those seasons he also led the league in batters hit and in one of them he led the league in shutouts. But he never led the league in wins, mostly because as you said (paraphrasing) having a bad team around you probably correlates to losing.
Obligatory Nolan Ryan link.
Capella
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
The Bears look really tough up front right now. And in the secondary. Amukamara jumped a Wilson throw on Monday that was sick, and while the Bears fans on the board were complaining about the other corner -- Fuller, I believe, he had coverage all night. Took an incredible catch and throw to beat them. Bucs have their offensive work cut out for them.
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
I, for one, am not giving up on him. He seems like a bonehead in like, a social kind of way maybe, but you can't argue with his numbers so far in his career. You can't do that well and not be a student of the game. I still think it's more likely he becomes a star than he flames out.
Capella
Footballguy
Yes. I feel gross defending him when you think about the off the field stuff but he was quite good last year and should tear it up with these weapons when he hits the field this year. I’m pretty certain it will be week 6 after the bye.
I agree. The Bears could kill Fitz this weekend. I think Winston is a QB1 the rest of the year. Trying to figure out when to pull the trigger. Picked him up last week but dropped him for Aaron Jones. My 96 team league has 8 copies of him available so I think I can wait until Sunday of week 5 and pick him up.
TZMarkie
Footballguy
I started Fitzpatrick in 3 of 3 redraft leagues this week, and I am extremely nervous going forward. In 2 I have Russell Wilson, but in the 3rd (coincidentally my biggest $$$ league) I have Fitzpatrick and ONLY Fitzpatrick.
I am very seriously debating picking up Baker Mayfield (Yeah I got balls) and also snagging Winston to go on the bench.
It wouldn't shock me in the slightest, if Fitzpatrick gets pulled at halftime this week and they roll out Winston. (cue the onslaught of pissed Fitzpatrick owners on this board if that happens)
My finger is hovering over the trigger as we speak in my league. (truly open waiver wire where we can make moves at any time)
My one week roller coaster of Fitzmagic was fun, but I think the coaster is making the last turn and is about to stop.
TZM
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I think people are forgetting that he was QB#5 down the stretch last year on a ppg basis. By going ppg, Wentz and Rodgers were still in front of him so injuries aren't swaying the numbers in his favor. Due to the piss poor year the Bucs had, I thinking people are forgetting how good his fantasy stats were. He was also injured during some of his mid-year starts so his year long total and ppg stats are artificially skewed down.
BigJonE300
Footballguy
I am so torn right now. I'm in a 16-team PPR league with a roster cap of 2-QBs. We have a practice squad to deal with bye weeks, injuries and suspensions which has allowed me to carry both Winston and Fitz. Now that Winson has been reinstated I have to cut one of them loose. This is excruciating, I couldn't cut it as an NFL GM/coach. Fitz should be starting in my opinion.
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BigJonE300
Footballguy
TZMarkie
Footballguy
Just an update to my last post, and @BassNBrew 's post after mine.
I outright dropped Fitz in all leagues, and in the one necessary league, I snagged Winston for my bench (and Mayfield as a streamer). As noted above, I don't like anything about Fitz and this Chicago defense.
I can't help but believe Fitz is starting to show his "true colors" and the reasons why he has been a journeyman QB. He looked great at times in weeks 1-2, but the patented Fitz meltdown was happening this week. I can't help but think if it starts again this week, we will see Winston at the half or at some point.
I feel like we can get Winston (FOR FREE) now before the possible blow up occurs, or we can cut him down the road and stream if needed.
Little to no risk now for streamers, but act while you can still get him free. (where you still have a spot/or appropriate)
TZM
I outright dropped Fitz in all leagues, and in the one necessary league, I snagged Winston for my bench (and Mayfield as a streamer). As noted above, I don't like anything about Fitz and this Chicago defense.
I can't help but believe Fitz is starting to show his "true colors" and the reasons why he has been a journeyman QB. He looked great at times in weeks 1-2, but the patented Fitz meltdown was happening this week. I can't help but think if it starts again this week, we will see Winston at the half or at some point.
I feel like we can get Winston (FOR FREE) now before the possible blow up occurs, or we can cut him down the road and stream if needed.
Little to no risk now for streamers, but act while you can still get him free. (where you still have a spot/or appropriate)
TZM
habsfan
Footballguy
I picked him and Trubisky up this morning to replace JimmyG and Tyrod because, why not? I think it's sound logic they go back to Winston at some point due to a combination of who Fitz generally is and the decisions they have to make. Fantasy wise Winston has been good to great but he has shown some "true colours" of his own at times that he needs to get past. I'm not convinced he hasn't reached that "he is who he is" apex of his development...Just an update to my last post, and @BassNBrew 's post after mine.
I outright dropped Fitz in all leagues, and in the one necessary league, I snagged Winston for my bench (and Mayfield as a streamer). As noted above, I don't like anything about Fitz and this Chicago defense.
I can't help but believe Fitz is starting to show his "true colors" and the reasons why he has been a journeyman QB. He looked great at times in weeks 1-2, but the patented Fitz meltdown was happening this week. I can't help but think if it starts again this week, we will see Winston at the half or at some point.
I feel like we can get Winston (FOR FREE) now before the possible blow up occurs, or we can cut him down the road and stream if needed.
Little to no risk now for streamers, but act while you can still get him free. (where you still have a spot/or appropriate)
TZM
NeverEnough
Footballguy
2 of the 3 INTs were not his fault, though...Just an update to my last post, and @BassNBrew 's post after mine.
I outright dropped Fitz in all leagues, and in the one necessary league, I snagged Winston for my bench (and Mayfield as a streamer). As noted above, I don't like anything about Fitz and this Chicago defense.
I can't help but believe Fitz is starting to show his "true colors" and the reasons why he has been a journeyman QB. He looked great at times in weeks 1-2, but the patented Fitz meltdown was happening this week. I can't help but think if it starts again this week, we will see Winston at the half or at some point.
I feel like we can get Winston (FOR FREE) now before the possible blow up occurs, or we can cut him down the road and stream if needed.
Little to no risk now for streamers, but act while you can still get him free. (where you still have a spot/or appropriate)
TZM
I can't imagine them going away from Fitzpatrick at the moment. Despite the three interceptions in week three, he's still leading the best offense in the league. If it were Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers coming back from suspension, sure you sit Fitz down. But for an average-at-best guy like Winston? Why would you mess with the success they're having?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
can you elaborate? what constituted a meltdown?
Was it the part where two of his INTs were not his fault?
Or was it the part where he lead his team back down 3 scores to give them a chance to win?
I guess I was watching a different game than you. I didnt see a meltdown. unless all you're doing is looking at the box score
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
People struggle to separate the off field and on field with him. He's not a good guy. At least he wasn't as recently as 2016. However, his numbers have been quite good taking everything into consideration.
I'm not advocating benching Fitzpatrick. I think he's earned the right to continue to start. The Bucs could have never dreamed of their season beginning this way. Everyone had them buried at 0-3.
I just wonder if Jameis could have done the same thing with these weapons, improved protection, the play caller change, and a defense that has actually managed to get a few stops these first 3 games.
GoBirds
Footballguy
The pick 6 in his own territory was awful. We've seen this movie with the Bills, Jets, and whoever else he played for.........if you want to cap out at 7-9 9-7 range he's your guy.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
It was a brutal first half. The pick 6 and the one he threw over Evans were his fault. It was zone and Evans sat down like he was supposed to. Fitz didn't read the coverage properly. He also took a sack in field goal range. I guess you can't blame him for the tipped ball, but he still tried to gunslinger sidearm it around a 300 pound DE.
He brought them back, but much of their deficit was because of his first half play. That and Conte being a pansy.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yes, it was pretty bad, but does that constitute a melt down? That's quite the over-reaction IMO
Big Fitz fan here, but he was in meltdown mode.
https://www.steelers.com/video/highlight-edmunds-makes-first-career-int
https://www.steelers.com/video/highlight-dupree-s-pick-six
And while the other was batted as I recall, you don't throw straight into a DLineman's extended arm.
I think it does. Halftime came at the right time for him. Very impressive second half.
Doesn't matter, Mack is going to break him in half the way the line played and Winston will be mopping up the pieces.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
The pressure of being in the national spotlight and on MNF at the same time got to him in that first half in my opinion. He looked nervous to me.
Let's go hypothetical for a moment here. If Winston's suspension was only two games and Fitz throws 3 interceptions in full tilt mode on Monday Night Football, does Tampa Bay make the switch at halftime?
I think they would have.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
People keep saying that but the one he threw side-armed into the pass rusher's arms that was tipped could be argued to be his fault and I tend to think the overthrow of Evans was also his fault. So I could easily say 2 of the 3 or 3 of 3 were his fault.
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He's finished as QB12, QB11 and would have been QB8 if you prorate his 13 games in 2017 out to 16.
I get that he's not sexy, and he's more than a bit of an #######. But he's been productive and valuable in fantasy.
I'm talking NFL, not fantasy. Just a middle of the pack guy. That's my point. Why would you bench one of the hottest QBs in the league for someone who's never been more than average? I'm not saying that Fitz will keep it up or that Winston won't take(and deserve) the job back at some point. But Fitz is playing better on this three game run than Winston ever has. Why change?
habsfan
Footballguy
Absolutely agree. I'm just saying that through the lens as "real football" being a leading indicator of fantasy football, he's at the tipping point of becoming a "journeyman" himself.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
FTR I do believe Winston comes in at some point, I just was surprised people felt that Fitzpatrick had a bad game last week... he over came adversity and looked pretty solid in that second half. A lot of QBs have done the same.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I think you may be correct here minus the strike through, I wouldn't' call it that but it's not worth debating.
Guy almost threw 30 TDs 2 years ago. He's got a big arm. I honestly think he has potential to be a top 10 QB in this offense. If Fitzpatrick can look this good, imagine a QB who is "average at best."
Get in now while you can. People scoffed at the mention of TB being a great offense just 1 month ago in the Barber thread... now they still haven't learned their lesson and now they are scoffing at the possibility of Winston being a legitimate fantasy QB.
I do believe Fitzpatrick will lose his job at some point. And when he does, Winston is going to be a huge pick up for many leagues. I'm just hoping to get through a couple injuries and byes until I can pick him up after week 5.
habsfan
Footballguy
Lots have folded up like a cheap suitcase too, which he did not. If anything this likely bolsters his confidence.
This ties into the perception that NFL wins define a QB's "greatness". The Bucs have been complete ####e on the field for pretty much Winston's entire tenure. Full disclosure, I don't follow the team very closely, so if you were to tell me that he looks like trash more often than he looks like a winner, I couldn't argue it.
From a fantasy stats perspective, I see someone who looks like a tremendous buy low opportunity.
doeseatplace
Footballguy
I'm struggling to understand why people just don't get this. He passed for 325+ yds and/or 3 TDs in 7 of 11 full, healthy games last year, with a less experienced receiving corps and a similarly putrid running game.
Koetter is making the right call sticking with the hot hand over a player who hasn't been with the team for three weeks, but there is no reason to believe this offense is going to crap if a QB switch is made
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TripItUp
Footballguy
Fitz was the least pressured QB in weeks 1 and 2. The steelers knew that, went after him and all of a sudden Fitz looks normal again.
The Bears will do the same this week, eat Fitz for lunch and Winston is your starter in week 6 because he's better against the pass rush than Fitz and it's not close.
Plan accordingly. I would be selling high on Ftiz if there are any suckers out there.
The Bears will do the same this week, eat Fitz for lunch and Winston is your starter in week 6 because he's better against the pass rush than Fitz and it's not close.
Plan accordingly. I would be selling high on Ftiz if there are any suckers out there.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
Dodds early rankings has Fitz 3rd, not sure why, I don't want to risk a halftime swap this game... that being said, he wins this game, he has some rope for a few more games...
TripItUp
Footballguy
Fitzpatrick can have a big fantasy game and still have a bad real football game.
The Bears are going to send the house and that could result in some long TDs, similar to the Steelers game. I wouldn't rank Fitz #3 but there is definitely an avenue for him to put up a big fantasy game...particularly if the Bucs pass blocking can withstand Mack and company. One thing is for certain, the Bucs will not be running on the Bears, that only leaves the pass.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
If a switch is made this offense will get better IMO.
I don't understand why people aren't just falling over themselves to buy this offense (especially Winston) either. I feel incredibly validated being correct on this (because we all know we are wrong more often than right), but it surprises me that there are still doubters out there.
Winston gets a lot of hate, but that's more directed toward Winston the human being, and people just let that over flow into Winston the football player. He has potential to finish the season with 30 TDs in 12 games
psychobillies
Footballguy
I won't be surprised if Winston gets back in at some point. My concern isn't that he's a bad person, it's that he's just a strange guy who may not be well liked by his team mates. I'll never forget the faces of his teammates when he was doing that weird W eating bit. Obviously, he's super talented, but his leadership is questionable at best and seems forced at times. That may very well be a factor in the coaches decision to stick with Fitz as long as they can. The team seems to like him more.Dr. Dan said:
habsfan
Footballguy
The other thing is simply can his game be "polished up" any further?
It's a cliche but this looks like one of those infamous "We have two quarterbacks" situations and we all know what the rest of that old saying is. It's okay that Fitz is ultimately not the guy but it's a different problem if Winston isn't.
btemp
Footballguy
I would be shocked if Winston isn't starting at some point this season for a couple reasons.
1) Fitz is playing at an unsustainable pace both generally and given his career arc. We saw that in the 1st half of the Steelers game with two bizarre INTs.
2) The team needs to know what they have in Winston so they're strongly incentivized to play him with the final year of his deal next year.
Winston, like Fitz, looked excellent in the preseason (albeit sometimes against no. 2s). He looked like peak Winston from last year when for a few games Winston was on fire - making the right reads, not doing boneheaded things.
But Winston has been the same player since his 2nd year at FSU. He hasn't significantly improved (relative to competition) since his freshman year. He's flashed at times, the question is: is this the year he becomes reliable? I don't know. It's a really, really weird season (see Fitzpatrick, Ryan).
1) Fitz is playing at an unsustainable pace both generally and given his career arc. We saw that in the 1st half of the Steelers game with two bizarre INTs.
2) The team needs to know what they have in Winston so they're strongly incentivized to play him with the final year of his deal next year.
Winston, like Fitz, looked excellent in the preseason (albeit sometimes against no. 2s). He looked like peak Winston from last year when for a few games Winston was on fire - making the right reads, not doing boneheaded things.
But Winston has been the same player since his 2nd year at FSU. He hasn't significantly improved (relative to competition) since his freshman year. He's flashed at times, the question is: is this the year he becomes reliable? I don't know. It's a really, really weird season (see Fitzpatrick, Ryan).
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