QB Shedeur Sanders, CLE (4 Viewers)

[Snotbubbles]

I have to ask - if he wasn't Deion's son, and the only thing we knew about him was game film we could watch, would he have been drafted? I heard someone compare him to Lebron's son, and they said Bronny sucks and only made it to the NBA because of his father. Is this the same case?

You might be right, but the one trait for Sanders I like is his accuracty. Unfortunately his game has a lot of warts in other areas. Off the field stuff aside for Sanders, someone like Malik Willis has more upaide long term in my opinion. I thiink eventually Willis could be a late fantasy bloomer on a different team down the road. I don't see that with Sanders.

I like Sanders better than Dillon Gabriel as a prospect. He was definitely a draftable player.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

anything football related?

Doing stupid stuff that might get him cut from his football team seems football-related.

No no, I'm not saying this stuff isn't relevant. Just... is there anything actually about football and how he is performing so far, etc. And it's rhetorical really.

So far the on-field reports have been the flavor of off-season fluff, best shape of his life, making all the throws, looking off (3rd string) LBs, etc.

Nothing concrete that I’ve seen so far. The off-field stuff certainly may make that irrelevant.

 

[JohnnyU]

I have to ask - if he wasn't Deion's son, and the only thing we knew about him was game film we could watch, would he have been drafted? I heard someone compare him to Lebron's son, and they said Bronny sucks and only made it to the NBA because of his father. Is this the same case?

You might be right, but the one trait for Sanders I like is his accuracty. Unfortunately his game has a lot of warts in other areas. Off the field stuff aside for Sanders, someone like Malik Willis has more upaide long term in my opinion. I thiink eventually Willis could be a late fantasy bloomer on a different team down the road. I don't see that with Sanders.

I like Sanders better than Dillon Gabriel as a prospect. He was definitely a draftable player.

Not a very high bar imo.

 

[-OZ-]

Do you honestly think this was the first time Lamar did this? Do you believe he was the only guy in that room of grown men who speeds?

Do you believe there’s any other commonality between these two?

 

[Chaka]

Do you honestly think this was the first time Lamar did this? Do you believe he was the only guy in that room of grown men who speeds?

Do you believe there’s any other commonality between these two?

Lots.

ETA: just to speed up the conversation. They both had two really good/great final seasons in college on mostly poor to middling teams. And they both fell in the draft for non football reasons.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Do you honestly think this was the first time Lamar did this? Do you believe he was the only guy in that room of grown men who speeds?

Do you believe there’s any other commonality between these two?

Lots.

ETA: just to speed up the conversation. They both had two really good/great final seasons in college on mostly poor to middling teams. And they both fell in the draft for non football reasons.

Curious to hear why you think Jackson fell in the draft.

 

[Chaka]

Do you honestly think this was the first time Lamar did this? Do you believe he was the only guy in that room of grown men who speeds?

Do you believe there’s any other commonality between these two?

Lots.

ETA: just to speed up the conversation. They both had two really good/great final seasons in college on mostly poor to middling teams. And they both fell in the draft for non football reasons.

Curious to hear why you think Jackson fell in the draft.

Clearly it wasn't because he couldn't play football.

ETA: Just so you don't think I'm being coy, it likely had a lot to do with his self representation.

ETA 2: I do wonder how much further he would have slipped if his dad was named Prime Time.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Do you honestly think this was the first time Lamar did this? Do you believe he was the only guy in that room of grown men who speeds?

Do you believe there’s any other commonality between these two?

Lots.

ETA: just to speed up the conversation. They both had two really good/great final seasons in college on mostly poor to middling teams. And they both fell in the draft for non football reasons.

Curious to hear why you think Jackson fell in the draft.

Clearly it wasn't because he couldn't play football.

ETA: Just so you don't think I'm being coy, it likely had a lot to do with his self representation.

ETA 2: I do wonder how much further he would have slipped if his dad was named Prime Time.

Do you see Sanders as capable a QB or as legit a prospect as LJax?

 

[Chaka]

Do you honestly think this was the first time Lamar did this? Do you believe he was the only guy in that room of grown men who speeds?

Do you believe there’s any other commonality between these two?

Lots.

ETA: just to speed up the conversation. They both had two really good/great final seasons in college on mostly poor to middling teams. And they both fell in the draft for non football reasons.

Curious to hear why you think Jackson fell in the draft.

Clearly it wasn't because he couldn't play football.

ETA: Just so you don't think I'm being coy, it likely had a lot to do with his self representation.

ETA 2: I do wonder how much further he would have slipped if his dad was named Prime Time.

Do you see Sanders as capable a QB or as legit a prospect as LJax?

Did you see LJax that way in 2018?

Hell, some people didn't view him that way two years ago during his contract negotiations. (FTR: I disagreed with them vehemently).

FTR: I don't really remember if I viewed Lamar as a franchise QB in 2018, let alone a two time MVP. I am virtually certain I view Shedeur an order of magnitude better as a passer than I did Lamar. Remember, Lamar was a 57% passer coming out of Louisville. IIRC most people viewed him as, at best, another Michael Vick. All wheels and not much else.

 

[TheWinz]

Did you see LJax that way in 2018?

Hell, some people didn't view him that way two years ago during his contract negotiations. (FTR: I disagreed with them vehemently).

FTR: I don't really remember if I viewed Lamar as a franchise QB in 2018, let alone a two time MVP. I am virtually certain I view Shedeur an order of magnitude better as a passer than I did Lamar. Remember, Lamar was a 57% passer coming out of Louisville. IIRC most people viewed him as, at best, another Michael Vick. All wheels and not much else.

Want to know what people thought of him? It's very simple. Just visit his thread and read the first 217 posts before he got drafted.

Thread 'QB Lamar Jackson, BAL'

Sep 17, 2016

Making people look stupid.  Currently wiping his behind with the #2 team in the nation, FSU.

Hightlights:  

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/9/9/12868612/lamar-jackson-louisville-quarterback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omMcVIi4aQs

True Sophomore.  See you in 2018, kid.  

• massraider
• Replies: 5,829
• Forum: The Shark Pool (NFL Talk)

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Do you honestly think this was the first time Lamar did this? Do you believe he was the only guy in that room of grown men who speeds?

Do you believe there’s any other commonality between these two?

Lots.

ETA: just to speed up the conversation. They both had two really good/great final seasons in college on mostly poor to middling teams. And they both fell in the draft for non football reasons.

Curious to hear why you think Jackson fell in the draft.

Clearly it wasn't because he couldn't play football.

ETA: Just so you don't think I'm being coy, it likely had a lot to do with his self representation.

ETA 2: I do wonder how much further he would have slipped if his dad was named Prime Time.

Do you see Sanders as capable a QB or as legit a prospect as LJax?

Did you see LJax that way in 2018?

Hell, some people didn't view him that way two years ago during his contract negotiations. (FTR: I disagreed with them vehemently).

FTR: I don't really remember if I viewed Lamar as a franchise QB in 2018, let alone a two time MVP. I am virtually certain I view Shedeur an order of magnitude better as a passer than I did Lamar. Remember, Lamar was a 57% passer coming out of Louisville. IIRC most people viewed him as, at best, another Michael Vick. All wheels and not much else.

I asked a pretty straightforward question. An answer with a question is a choice?

I see you later gave it a shot - so you see Sanders as better than LJax was coming into the league?

I’m not sure I agree.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Do you honestly think this was the first time Lamar did this? Do you believe he was the only guy in that room of grown men who speeds?

Do you believe there’s any other commonality between these two?

Lots.

ETA: just to speed up the conversation. They both had two really good/great final seasons in college on mostly poor to middling teams. And they both fell in the draft for non football reasons.

Curious to hear why you think Jackson fell in the draft.

Clearly it wasn't because he couldn't play football.

ETA: Just so you don't think I'm being coy, it likely had a lot to do with his self representation.

ETA 2: I do wonder how much further he would have slipped if his dad was named Prime Time.

It was because a lot of people thought he couldn't play QB, not because of his representation. Guys (a lot of guys) like Lombardi saying he should be a RB or WR.

Remember that Baltimore traded back into the 1st round to get Jackson.

 

[-OZ-]

FTR: I don't really remember if I viewed Lamar as a franchise QB in 2018, let alone a two time MVP. I am virtually certain I view Shedeur an order of magnitude better as a passer than I did Lamar. Remember, Lamar was a 57% passer coming out of Louisville. IIRC most people viewed him as, at best, another Michael Vick. All wheels and not much else.

And they both fell in the draft for non football reasons.

I’m not sure we can really say Lamar “fell” in the draft. At least not much. Looking back at his draft profile, his accuracy was knocking him down into the 2nd on some boards. Ultra athletic but inaccurate passer, boom bust type. Some teams weren’t willing to try to develop him.

His game isn't a natural fit for the NFL and will require development, but Jackson has game-changing athleticism and playmaking skills.
Draft Projection
Rounds 1-2
NFL Comparison
Michael Vick

Overview​

Evaluating Jackson against the NFL standards for the position will cause him to come up short. However, he has rare speed and athleticism and can single-handedly win games. Jackson's accuracy is clearly spotty and teams must decide the level of accuracy they are willing to live with relative to his ability to create explosive plays. Jackson may need to operate in an offense ready to integrate RPOs (run/pass options) along with heavy play-action

VERDICT​

Jackson is a bigger, more physical and vastly more accomplished version of Michael Vick who may be the most athletically talented QB prospect in the league’s history. Vick, of course, went #1 overall in 2001. So why no top-of-draft hype for Jackson this time around? I think it boils down to two things NFL executives have learned about QBs of this style since the 2001 draft: they don’t have long term durability and they don’t win Super Bowls. Building around a player like this is a high risk proposition that will require a lot of patience and a carefully crafted offensive scheme built around his strengths. However, the overall upside and once-in-a-generation athleticism make Jackson far too tantalizing to realistically escape the first round.

PROSPECT COMP​

Michael Vick

GRADE​

LATE FIRST

could be a fine WR
QB4
QB5

Sanders, for his warts, was/is an accurate passer. But that and “confidence” seem to be all he has going for him. Almost the opposite of Lamar.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I give him a bit of a pass for this one instance since, as you pointed out, he’s now a two-time MVP and clearly has the goods.

Really looking for that college aged kid with known idiotic tendencies when they came into the league and still turned into Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, etc.

Lamar was going into his second season; he didn't even have one full NFL season or a single MVP at the time he filmed HIMSELF speeding. He wasn't an established vet at the time back before the 2019 season.
He CLEARLY did NOT have the goods and no-one had him pegged to be a two-time MVP when he did that.
He TURNED INTO LAMAR JACKSON that very season. Literally what you asked for.

 

[massraider]

I think he fails, but not because of all this other stuff. I like when young athletes do something young and stupid, and the Shark Pool demonstrates what a bunch of little old ladies post here.

I think he fails for SEVERAL reasons: He doesn't have a special arm, he has a terrible tendency to go backwards when things go wrong, he doesn't offer much as a runner, because his father is such a pain the the nuts, Shedeur fell further in the draft than he should have. Thus, the team has less invested. It's easier to move on from the 5th round QB than the 2nd round QB. Also, he went to the Browns, and until they prove otherwise, I assume this is a bad place for young QBs to develop.

It's a lot of negatives, nothing to do with speeding.

 

[SayWhat?]

I don’t think it has to do with **just** speeding either, it’s the culmination of all these issues. The (2x) speeding is just another check box on the list of things that may not necessarily be negatives which prevent him from succeeding, but definitely another red flag on his resume that’s heading in a terrible direction over the past few months.

 

[massraider]

I don’t think it has to do with **just** speeding either, it’s the culmination of all these issues. The (2x) speeding is just another check box on the list of things that may not necessarily be negatives which prevent him from succeeding, but definitely another red flag on his resume that’s heading in a terrible direction over the past few months.

Completely agree with that. One more warning sign.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don’t think it has to do with **just** speeding either, it’s the culmination of all these issues. The (2x) speeding is just another check box on the list of things that may not necessarily be negatives which prevent him from succeeding, but definitely another red flag on his resume that’s heading in a terrible direction over the past few months.

Completely agree with that. One more warning sign.

Skipping court is worse than speeding, IMHO.

 

[TheWinz]

I don’t think it has to do with **just** speeding either, it’s the culmination of all these issues. The (2x) speeding is just another check box on the list of things that may not necessarily be negatives which prevent him from succeeding, but definitely another red flag on his resume that’s heading in a terrible direction over the past few months.

Completely agree with that. One more warning sign.

Skipping court is worse than speeding, IMHO.

Agreed. Speeding is stupid but fun and everyone does it. But to ignore the law means you think you are above it.

True story - I was a passenger in my late 30's and my 60-something father-in-law was speeding. Doing something like 65 in a 40. Cops pulls us over, writes him a ticket. My father-in-law accepts the ticket begrudgingly, says some sarcastic remark, then speeds away. Cops pull us over 15 seconds later and writes him another ticket for speeding. I wanted to laugh at him for being a prick to the cop.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I have to ask - if he wasn't Deion's son, and the only thing we knew about him was game film we could watch, would he have been drafted? I heard someone compare him to Lebron's son, and they said Bronny sucks and only made it to the NBA because of his father. Is this the same case?

You might be right, but the one trait for Sanders I like is his accuracty. Unfortunately his game has a lot of warts in other areas. Off the field stuff aside for Sanders, someone like Malik Willis has more upaide long term in my opinion. I thiink eventually Willis could be a late fantasy bloomer on a different team down the road. I don't see that with Sanders.

I like Sanders better than Dillon Gabriel as a prospect. He was definitely a draftable player.

Not a very high bar imo.

Probably have him on the same tier as Jaxson Dart, right below Cam Ward. Didn't love any of the QBs in this draft, but I was hoping the Eagles took a shot on Sanders right before Cleveland moved up. Think he can have a nice career as a backup and be a passable starter in an emergency, a la Nick Foles.

 

[JohnnyU]

I have to ask - if he wasn't Deion's son, and the only thing we knew about him was game film we could watch, would he have been drafted? I heard someone compare him to Lebron's son, and they said Bronny sucks and only made it to the NBA because of his father. Is this the same case?

You might be right, but the one trait for Sanders I like is his accuracty. Unfortunately his game has a lot of warts in other areas. Off the field stuff aside for Sanders, someone like Malik Willis has more upaide long term in my opinion. I thiink eventually Willis could be a late fantasy bloomer on a different team down the road. I don't see that with Sanders.

I like Sanders better than Dillon Gabriel as a prospect. He was definitely a draftable player.

Not a very high bar imo.

Probably have him on the same tier as Jaxson Dart, right below Cam Ward. Didn't love any of the QBs in this draft, but I was hoping the Eagles took a shot on Sanders right before Cleveland moved up. Think he can have a nice career as a backup and be a passable starter in an emergency, a la Nick Foles.

I suppose that’s not asking too much.

 

[Bri]

Shedeur and Ward both held workouts in Miami at near the same days.

There is almost no reporting of Sheduer's.

I find this fascinating.
In two months, zero games played, only shorts, no camp yet.

We were debating Sheduer or Ward and there were a lot of people on either side just a short time ago.

 

[Penguin]

Gabriel is not an NFL starter, Sheduer will start week 10 after Cleveland's week 9 bye at the latest

 

[Faust]

Colorado Buffaloes football legend Shedeur Sanders’ status on Browns clarified amid CFL’s Toronto Argonauts adding him to negotiation list

 

[Helaire-ious]

Not helping himself with the speeding nonsense

 

[warpig33]

Not helping himself with the speeding nonsense

Agreed. I ain't gonna knock him for speeding, he's young, we've all been there. But NOT appearing in court is not a good sign. I'm sure the coach/staff think the same.

 

[ProstheticRGK]

I think this thread is testament to why he slid so far in the draft. 26 pages for a 5th Round QB?

Does he have the skill set to be a starting NFL QB? Possibly. I don’t think so, but a lot of people think he does. Will he be a top-tier talent at QB? Likely not, IMO.

Does he garner a lot of scrutiny and press coverage? Absolutely. He is a huge “brand” just because of his last name. His own personality and reported immaturity only add fuel to that fire.

Is he worth taking a flier on in the 5th Round? I guess. If you’re the Browns.

 

[rockaction]

Is he worth taking a flier on in the 5th Round? I guess. If you’re the Browns.

If you're nearly anyone, IMO. If you have an established starter, he gets time to develop in a low-pressure situatioin. If you don't have one, you ought be moving heaven and earth to get one.

eta* and he is not helping himself with any legal problems—minor as they might be.

 

[darksideofoz]

Is he worth taking a flier on in the 5th Round? I guess. If you’re the Browns.

If you're nearly anyone, IMO. If you have an established starter, he gets time to develop in a low-pressure situatioin. If you don't have one, you ought be moving heaven and earth to get one.

eta* and not helping himself with any legal problems minor as they might be.

He went mid rd 2 in my rookie draft this last week. Before Shough.

I took Gabriel at 6.03.

10 team, start 2 QB salary cap dynasty.

 

[rockaction]

Is he worth taking a flier on in the 5th Round? I guess. If you’re the Browns.

If you're nearly anyone, IMO. If you have an established starter, he gets time to develop in a low-pressure situatioin. If you don't have one, you ought be moving heaven and earth to get one.

eta* and not helping himself with any legal problems minor as they might be.

He went mid rd 2 in my rookie draft this last week. Before Shough.

I took Gabriel at 6.03.

10 team, start 2 QB salary cap dynasty.

Interesting. I was talking about the fifth round of the NFL draft, which is where he went. I assumed Prosthetic RGK was referring to the Browns' placement when he was selected.

Interesting also that he went before Shough in your rookie draft. Good data point. Sanders went at 3.10 in ours (1QB, IDP twelve-team league) and Shough went 4.01. I think I would have reversed both of those if I were picking, but I'm not a QB expert. I always say that if I were a QB expert then they'd be paying me upwards of twenty million in finder's fees because nobody has any sort of idea what these guys will become.

Well, we do know that lower-round draft picks don't pan out until Tom Brady or Brock Purdy comes along. Then they do. GOAT in the sixth. Mr. Irrelevant the 100 million dollar signing guarantee. That's something else.

Got me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[TripItUp]

I'm sure Shadeur could not care less if he's released by the Browns. Plenty of other, better organizations that will scoop up Shadeur immediately IMHO.

Indianapolis or New Orleans would be foolish not to roster him IMHO. (as an example)

 

[Ilov80s]

I'm sure Shadeur could not care less if he's released by the Browns. Plenty of other, better organizations that will scoop up Shadeur immediately IMHO.

Indianapolis or New Orleans would be foolish not to roster him IMHO. (as an example)

Maybe but those teams had several chamces to scoop him up in the NFL draft and chose to pass.

 

[Kiddnets]

I'm sure Shadeur could not care less if he's released by the Browns. Plenty of other, better organizations that will scoop up Shadeur immediately IMHO.

Indianapolis or New Orleans would be foolish not to roster him IMHO. (as an example)

Maybe but those teams had several chamces to scoop him up in the NFL draft and chose to pass.

good point - if teams didnt want to spend a late draft pick on him then if he's cut lose who knows how much interest he garners - I still think he sticks in Cleveland and gets a shot late in the season after bye

 

[TripItUp]

Maybe but those teams had several chamces to scoop him up in the NFL draft and chose to pass.

So you don't think he'd get picked up?

Let's get this on the record so I can victory lap when/if he does.

My larger point is that it's unlikely he's going to Canada.

 

[Ilov80s]

Maybe but those teams had several chamces to scoop him up in the NFL draft and chose to pass.

So you don't think he'd get picked up?

Let's get this on the record so I can victory lap when/if he does.

My larger point is that there it's unlikely he's going to Canada.

Assuming the Browns do choose to let him go/try the practice squad, I would imagine someone signs him but it probably doesn't last long there either. What is the track record for 5th round QBs who can't make the roster? Remove his name and just look at the facts of the situation. It's all signaling the NFL mangement doesn't think he belongs.

Obviously at this point, it is a lot of speculation. He might have a great camp and easily land a spot.

 

[Bri]

This angle of discussion I've been seeing on X is that if he gets cut that's a gift because he can go anywhere he wants then.

Their GM will hold him til at least the trade deadline if not longer. He is cheapish and high ceiling and GMs don't just cut players like that.

Also it would be where is a spot available not wherever he wants.

 

[Chaka]

I think the narrative that Shedeur fell in the draft purely based upon on field ability is naive.

All the "He backpedals too much" or "Holds onto the ball too long" stuff is minor relative to everything he does really well on the field.

You don't just cut a QB with his upside.

 

[Joe Schmo]

I think the narrative that Shedeur fell in the draft purely based upon on field ability is naive.

All the "He backpedals too much" or "Holds onto the ball too long" stuff is minor relative to everything he does really well on the field.

You don't just cut a QB with his upside.

Agreed. If Anthony Richardson gets decent rope then Sanders sure as heck deserves a long look.

 

[Chaka]

I think the narrative that Shedeur fell in the draft purely based upon on field ability is naive.

All the "He backpedals too much" or "Holds onto the ball too long" stuff is minor relative to everything he does really well on the field.

You don't just cut a QB with his upside.

Agreed. If Anthony Richardson gets decent rope then Sanders sure as heck deserves a long look.

Richardson for sure. Daniel Jones, Justin Fields, 138 year old (FACT) Aaron Rodgers, Sam Darnold etc.