QB Shedeur Sanders, CLE (1 Viewer)

[Faust]

Esiason: Multiple owners told their teams to take Shedeur Sanders off the board

 

[N Zone]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think Flacco starts the season but what's the argument for keeping Pickett?

They're not competing for anything this year.

Notably they decided not to pick up Pickett's fifth year option.

We could flip this around and say that unless Sanders wows you at camp right away, what's the argument for keeping a 5th round QB around?

He had a completion percentage ranking him first in all of college football, for one. Turned around two programs, for two. 3. Hight TD:INT.
He's going to wow! Have you watched him play?

 

[RC94]

I'm not going to go through several pages to find out, but has anyone posted the original Eli thread from 2004? Here it is: https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/manning-family-asks-sd-not-to-draft-eli.77081/

Good get.

Four pages.

Four.

Thank you. The forum is more active now.

Maybe it also has something to do with how Deion and Shedeur constantly intentionaly seek out attention vs. how the Mannings behaved at the time.

 

[Faust]

The elephant in Shedeur Sanders’ draft room

Andscape roundtable: What’s next for Shedeur Sanders?

 

[Faust]

Browns draft pick Shedeur Sanders has his CFL rights claimed by Toronto

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

To me, it makes the most sense to have Watson, Pickett, Gabriel as your 3 and put Sanders and/or Flacco on your practice squad

 

[Donnybrook]

https://x.com/Reallytheitgirl/status/1916612294491914710/photo/1

 

[-OZ-]

To me, it makes the most sense to have Watson, Pickett, Gabriel as your 3 and put Sanders and/or Flacco on your practice squad

There’s no chance Flacco goes on the practice squad.

 

[WDIK2]

Maybe some of the, "Why are people mean to the Sanders family when the Mannings got a total pass?" was a little misguided when we look at what was actually said.

Four pages. Three actually. The fourth page is a few posts two years later.

All the posts were made in April 22, 2004 and then it was done.

We're on page 20 here.

Now put the Sanders situation in 2004 and the Manning situation in 2025. How many pages do you estimate for each? So much of this is driven by current "media".

It's first name Dillon last name Gabriel.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

So Flacco is their best QB now?

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm not going to go through several pages to find out, but has anyone posted the original Eli thread from 2004? Here it is: https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/manning-family-asks-sd-not-to-draft-eli.77081/

Good get.

Four pages.

Four.

Thank you. The forum is more active now.

Maybe it also has something to do with how Deion and Shedeur constantly intentionaly seek out attention vs. how the Mannings behaved at the time.

Stop throwing facts in here...

 

[-OZ-]

I think this represents the difference in how we talk about these things.

Shedeur was likely never a top five pick so there is no point in framing it that way. By the time draft date rolled around most people knew he might slide out of the first round.

The questions start at the Jaxon Dart pick. There was enough chatter pre draft that it wasn't entirely a surprise that he was the second QB taken.

Shough? Milroe? Dillon?!?!?!?

We don't need a breakdown of their relative merits, we know them. Shedeur's film is easily on par with all those guys.

This isn't about Sanders getting "publicity", this is about the fact he has more public presence than, I think, any draft pick, ever.

I’m not sure where you’re drawing the line between publicity and public presence.

I like what was said in a different podcast - the draft is ultimately about risk assessment (and reward). The reward for sanders compared to the risk is far worse than milroe or the others, at least in the mind of the decision makers. Fwiw, I’d have taken him before Dillon, but I’m not running a franchise or dealing with Deion.

You seem upset that the NFL decision makers didn’t find the risk / reward with Sanders worth taking until the fifth. It’s notable that the team that did hasn’t shown to be great judges here when it comes to QBs and are perhaps a bit desperate.

To be sure, it could work out. But what does this working out look like to you? IMO it’s competent game management with a lot of drama. Not something I’m interested in for my team (granted, competence hasn’t been the titans way these last few years).

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly

Let me flip this around and ask you what specifically has Shedeur Sanders done on the field to be expected to be drafted so highly. Because those of us saying he didn't deserve it based on play are backed up by 32 NFL GMs and those saying he should have been picked in the 1st or 2nd are backed up by Mel Kiper.

Not just Mel Kiper, c'mon man, are we gonna keep it real or just make up any ole facts that help shape the narrative?
Kiper was not alone

When Dianna Russini started the talk circuit on Draft Day 1 and said he wasn't going to be drafted in the 1st, there wasn't a mainstream voice that said he wasn't going 1st round
Not Colin, not SAS, not NFLN...let's be real here. Nobody was discussing Sanders being drafted Rd 5 on Day 3

-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders


Nothing personal LL, like your takes

Nothing personal taken. We're all just talking football and it's a fun conversation about a very polarizing player.

Here's my point though. Is anyone able to give me their personal analysis on him? I gave mine multiple times and i think in another thread pre draft i said the same to you. Did i think he was a 5th? No way. I thought based on play he was a 3rd, but perhaps there was potential to be a 2 since on paper it's a down year. What happened was that he was a 3rd round talent penalized to the 5th due to attitude. I mean he was drafted in the 5th so this is far from a hot take. Manning's don't act like that and displayed much better on field play, so I'm not sure that's a great comparison. I wasn't a fan of Elway or Eli refusing to play for certain teams either though.

So can you give a personal analysis to back up his first round grade? Or anyone else for that matter. The media takes were proven wrong, so what's the bull case that this guy is a franchise QB?

I read his scouting report. I've watched some tape. not as much as I'd like but some.

his scouting report actually reads a lot like Dak Prescotts did when he turned pro. Dak was a 4th round pick.

that said at the time he turned pro I felt he should have been drafted at least a round earlier and I thought (at that time) he Cowboys potentially got a deal.

that aside, I think this kid throws a bit better than Dak did at this point in his career. But Dak was better running the ball.

Personally I felt that this guy (based on talent) was likely a 2nd round pick who may creep into round 1. Then some of this off field hype, dad saying there were teams he wouldnt play for etc. etc. and I figured he might drop.

what I did not think was that hed drop into round 5. I figured he'd be a day 2 pick. possibly early day 3 if things went badly...... Clearly things went far worse than I could have anticipated. I wasnt surprised to see him fall out of round 2. even falling out of round 3 wasnt too much of a stretch. but after that, My belief is that there is something that is NOT talent related that caused him to fall further than that.

Has anyone made any comments in here about the look on the front office and coaches faces when this pick was announced?
It did not appear like there were a lot of high 5s going on and it does beg the question if Jimmy Haslam made a direct order to the front office in the 5th round
Wreckless Speculation on MoP's part I know but I wonder if something came from above
Why would they take Gabriel in the 3rd if they were taking Sanders at a certain point they just couldn't pass?
Was Sanders que'd up on any other Teams must pick later in the 5th or 6th/7th rounds? I haven't heard anything like that yet but I figure that info will leak

I saw this too. The guy (GM?) sitting next to Stefanski couldn't look less impressed. I had the same thoughts you do.

MOP, I don't know that I would call it WRECKLESS speculation that Haslam made this call.

I heard the same thing on a couple of radio shows today. Someone even said he thought the reason Gabriel was drafted in the 3rd was simply to dissuade Haslam from insisting on Sanders.

Wreckless Speculation is another DLS reference

Let me explain for the viewers at home, I'm terrible at assuming people will get a joke about a show they've never seen
It's a littlle homegrown medley on DLS featuring Dan's father who is in his 80s and has a very thick Cuban accent and called "Papi" of course

TikTok - Make Your Day

MoP loves Wreckless Speculation and I say it like that so folks know I am not 100% serious about it and use this to allow for wiggle room on my side

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Maybe some of the, "Why are people mean to the Sanders family when the Mannings got a total pass?" was a little misguided when we look at what was actually said.

Four pages. Three actually. The fourth page is a few posts two years later.

All the posts were made in April 22, 2004 and then it was done.

We're on page 20 here.

Now put the Sanders situation in 2004 and the Manning situation in 2025. How many pages do you estimate for each? So much of this is driven by current "media".

It's first name Dillon last name Gabriel.

The media is getting a pass and they shouldn't
They wouldn't shut up about SS today, I barely heard a word about most of the 1st round and 2nd round picks but I heard plenty about Sanders

-And I still don't really know what the story is, all we truly heard is Brian Daboll and why the Giants were passing on him and traded up for Dart
I want to discuss that quote or tidbit from McShay in my next post...actually we can do it here

@RandyDB asked me a good question about teams trying to trip up Sanders which I don't particularly like and not sure I even believe they did this BUT...

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/brian-daboll-breaks-silence-on-shedeur-sanders-pre-draft-interview-after-concerning-reports-emerge

“Shedeur didn't have a great interview with Brian Daboll in a private visit," McShay said on Thursday. "An install package came in. Preparation wasn’t there for it. [He] got called out on it. Didn’t like that. Brian didn’t appreciate him not liking it.”

-Here is an idea...maybe Brian Daboll, just maybe you're "install package" STINKS!!!
You did lead the G-Men to a whopping 3-14 record did you not? You're an OC still trying to make it as a HC and you're lucky they didn't fire you last year
When did Daboll become the expert on Quarterbacks entering the NFL? I haven't seen a lot of quality throws coming out of his offense or the Giants since he arrived

 

[travdogg]

To me, it makes the most sense to have Watson, Pickett, Gabriel as your 3 and put Sanders and/or Flacco on your practice squad

I would think Watson is either IR or PUP and doesn't count against the roster spots. I think its most likely he's IR and never takes another snap for them.

If it were me, I'd get rid of Flacco, and hope one of the young guys shows something, and if they don't, you likely sucked and have 2 1sts next year to get your guy. But if one looks good, ideally Sanders I'd argue, then maybe you stick with him at QB and have 2 1sts to add surrounding talent next year, and a QB on a day 3 rookie deal.

To me its Sanders/Pickett/Gabriel in order of likelihood of panning out. I think Gabriel has a great mind, but seems more like a KOC, or Kellen Moore type, where he's more future QB coach/OC than NFL QB, he's simply at a physical disadvantage.

 

[Chaka]

Maybe some of the, "Why are people mean to the Sanders family when the Mannings got a total pass?" was a little misguided when we look at what was actually said.

Four pages. Three actually. The fourth page is a few posts two years later.

All the posts were made in April 22, 2004 and then it was done.

We're on page 20 here.

Now put the Sanders situation in 2004 and the Manning situation in 2025. How many pages do you estimate for each? So much of this is driven by current "media".

It's first name Dillon last name Gabriel.

LOL yeah, that's what I said. I used the Chinese tradition of putting the last name first.

Yup, that's definitely what I did.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

Is watson still hurt?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think this represents the difference in how we talk about these things.

Shedeur was likely never a top five pick so there is no point in framing it that way. By the time draft date rolled around most people knew he might slide out of the first round.

The questions start at the Jaxon Dart pick. There was enough chatter pre draft that it wasn't entirely a surprise that he was the second QB taken.

Shough? Milroe? Dillon?!?!?!?

We don't need a breakdown of their relative merits, we know them. Shedeur's film is easily on par with all those guys.

This isn't about Sanders getting "publicity", this is about the fact he has more public presence than, I think, any draft pick, ever.

I’m not sure where you’re drawing the line between publicity and public presence.

I like what was said in a different podcast - the draft is ultimately about risk assessment (and reward). The reward for sanders compared to the risk is far worse than milroe or the others, at least in the mind of the decision makers. Fwiw, I’d have taken him before Dillon, but I’m not running a franchise or dealing with Deion.

You seem upset that the NFL decision makers didn’t find the risk / reward with Sanders worth taking until the fifth. It’s notable that the team that did hasn’t shown to be great judges here when it comes to QBs and are perhaps a bit desperate.

To be sure, it could work out. But what does this working out look like to you? IMO it’s competent game management with a lot of drama. Not something I’m interested in for my team (granted, competence hasn’t been the titans way these last few years).

"Dealing with Deion"
-That's what is underneath a lot of this I think, it's not Shedeuer as much as it is dealing with his father.
But what does that mean? If Deion is good enough to graduate from Jackson St as a HC after working his way up thru high school football as I recall and then moving up to Div I with Colorado, Sanders wins a lot of these portal transfers so in ways he is a successful recruiter, he gets paid by Aflac-an Insurance company and they have no issues putting him next to Saban in their commercials. I understand his ways are not for everyone, I've never heard Deion mentioned for his play calling abilities or ways he outthinks other head coaches, he's more of a CEO type

I didn't hear enough chatter about Deion possibly failing his son, you didn't hear that very often on the talk circuit today

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Is watson still hurt?

Achilles torn twice, once during rehab

 

[Chaka]

I think this represents the difference in how we talk about these things.

Shedeur was likely never a top five pick so there is no point in framing it that way. By the time draft date rolled around most people knew he might slide out of the first round.

The questions start at the Jaxon Dart pick. There was enough chatter pre draft that it wasn't entirely a surprise that he was the second QB taken.

Shough? Milroe? Dillon?!?!?!?

We don't need a breakdown of their relative merits, we know them. Shedeur's film is easily on par with all those guys.

This isn't about Sanders getting "publicity", this is about the fact he has more public presence than, I think, any draft pick, ever.

I’m not sure where you’re drawing the line between publicity and public presence.

I like what was said in a different podcast - the draft is ultimately about risk assessment (and reward). The reward for sanders compared to the risk is far worse than milroe or the others, at least in the mind of the decision makers. Fwiw, I’d have taken him before Dillon, but I’m not running a franchise or dealing with Deion.

You seem upset that the NFL decision makers didn’t find the risk / reward with Sanders worth taking until the fifth. It’s notable that the team that did hasn’t shown to be great judges here when it comes to QBs and are perhaps a bit desperate.

To be sure, it could work out. But what does this working out look like to you? IMO it’s competent game management with a lot of drama. Not something I’m interested in for my team (granted, competence hasn’t been the titans way these last few years).

Not at all upset. Let me be clear, as a Raider fan I was worried about ending up with him in Las Vegas.

I spoke about that regularly in the Raiders thread.

I didn't want to deal with that circus either.

But I certainly believe, from a pure football perspective he is a better prospect than Milroe, Dart, Shogh and whatever that dudes name is from Oregon.

And my point is simply that his fall had very little to do with what happened in the field.

Around the third round is when I started think it was worth the risk of distraction. I started hoping the Raiders would take him with one of their picks at 98 & 99. But I understand why they didn't draft him. I understand why the Steelers didn't either (I expect Rodgers to sign there eventually and I think they do too).

In the fifth round, I think the Browns got an absolute steal. I imagine they're bitter they wasted a third on that Oregon dude.

 

[N Zone]

Is watson still hurt?

He had a setback during recovery in that he reinjured his Achilles tendon. He's not expected to be healthy enough to play in 2025 or most of 2025.

Browns' Watson tears Achilles again, has surgery

Cleveland Browns QB Deshaun Watson underwent surgery Thursday after tearing his Achilles for a second time, the team announced, adding that Watson "will likely miss significant time during the 2025 season."

www.espn.com

 

[Bracie Smathers]

If it were me, I'd get rid of Flacco

Can't get rid of Flacco.
He is the only vet QB in the room to tutor the young guys. He knows Stefanski's offense.
Kenny is not that guy.
Najee Harris Says Steelers 'Didn’t Know Anything on Offense,' Team Had No 'Identity'
The Pittsburgh Steelers' offensive struggles and problems have been well-documented...
... Najee Harris provided his thoughts on the matters ...
...“We just didn’t know anything on offense, really. We didn't have any identity. We had a young guy coming in at quarterback. I was young. The team was young. I really didn’t have nobody to almost learn from on the offensive side. ...
You need at least ONE veteran QB to help the room.
Kenny has one game in his NFL career where he's thrown for more than 1 TD.
Kenny has one game in his NFL career where he's thrown for more than 300 yards.
Joe isn't going to get cut.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Maybe some of the, "Why are people mean to the Sanders family when the Mannings got a total pass?"

Eli was a better prospect and the Mannings GOT what they demanded.
Decades by go.
Social media enters into the mix and kids are brought up different.
Sanders' fam is heavy vested in social media.
Sanders are black.
Mannings are white the last time I looked.
Racism does exist and social media means everyone can chime in.
I'd say there is enough chemistry for many people to come to whatever conclusions their Internet will allow, and it allows it all so let's just get it out there.
Many African Americans TRULY believe there was/is a racist component in all of this. I doubt the owners colluded, but I unfortunately have heard enough that Shedeur fell because he wasn't good at football.
We shall see.

I wonder why all those racist black coaches and GM's passed on him multiple times.

And to look at Cleveland, it looks like ownership stepped in and ruled for this move based on the draft room cam.

 

[Smack Tripper]

If it were me, I'd get rid of Flacco

Can't get rid of Flacco.
He is the only vet QB in the room to tutor the young guys. He knows Stefanski's offense.
Kenny is not that guy.
Najee Harris Says Steelers 'Didn’t Know Anything on Offense,' Team Had No 'Identity'
The Pittsburgh Steelers' offensive struggles and problems have been well-documented...
... Najee Harris provided his thoughts on the matters ...
...“We just didn’t know anything on offense, really. We didn't have any identity. We had a young guy coming in at quarterback. I was young. The team was young. I really didn’t have nobody to almost learn from on the offensive side. ...
You need at least ONE veteran QB to help the room.
Kenny has one game in his NFL career where he's thrown for more than 1 TD.
Kenny has one game in his NFL career where he's thrown for more than 300 yards.
Joe isn't going to get cut.

Kenny probably stinks but I wouldn't put too much stock in any Matt Canada offense

I'm giving Sanders the same leash for playing under Pat Shurmur

Retread stiffs that keep falling up.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Did the LEGENDARY play set he built at the house cost him a round?

When you compare him and this situation with Eli, that's all part of the equation too.

What a doozy

 

[Ghost Rider]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think Flacco starts the season but what's the argument for keeping Pickett?

They're not competing for anything this year.

Notably they decided not to pick up Pickett's fifth year option.

We could flip this around and say that unless Sanders wows you at camp right away, what's the argument for keeping a 5th round QB around?

He had a completion percentage ranking him first in all of college football, for one. Turned around two programs, for two. 3. Hight TD:INT.
He's going to wow! Have you watched him play?

Of course. He looks like one of many QBs who was good in college, but won't amount to much in the NFL (and the list of QBs in that box is LONG). Factor in all of the nonsense that comes with him and it's easy to see why not a single NFL team thought he was worth drafting in the early rounds.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

I'm not going to go through several pages to find out, but has anyone posted the original Eli thread from 2004? Here it is: https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/manning-family-asks-sd-not-to-draft-eli.77081/

Good get.

Four pages.

Four.

Thank you. The forum is more active now.

Maybe it also has something to do with how Deion and Shedeur constantly intentionaly seek out attention vs. how the Mannings behaved at the time.

Stop throwing facts in here...

right? Oh wait, not even close to factual. Back in 2004 there was espn, am radio and there was print media. No iphones, no twitter, no instagram/social media, facebook had barely rolled out. Very different times

 

[renesauz]

Maybe some of the, "Why are people mean to the Sanders family when the Mannings got a total pass?"

Eli was a better prospect and the Mannings GOT what they demanded.
Decades by go.
Social media enters into the mix and kids are brought up different.
Sanders' fam is heavy vested in social media.
Sanders are black.
Mannings are white the last time I looked.
Racism does exist and social media means everyone can chime in.
I'd say there is enough chemistry for many people to come to whatever conclusions their Internet will allow, and it allows it all so let's just get it out there.
Many African Americans TRULY believe there was/is a racist component in all of this. I doubt the owners colluded, but I unfortunately have heard enough that Shedeur fell because he wasn't good at football.
We shall see.

I wonder why all those racist black coaches and GM's passed on him multiple times.

And to look at Cleveland, it looks like ownership stepped in and ruled for this move based on the draft room cam.

The idea that this had anything to do with racism is disturbing, and patently ridiculously false

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think this represents the difference in how we talk about these things.

Shedeur was likely never a top five pick so there is no point in framing it that way. By the time draft date rolled around most people knew he might slide out of the first round.

The questions start at the Jaxon Dart pick. There was enough chatter pre draft that it wasn't entirely a surprise that he was the second QB taken.

Shough? Milroe? Dillon?!?!?!?

We don't need a breakdown of their relative merits, we know them. Shedeur's film is easily on par with all those guys.

This isn't about Sanders getting "publicity", this is about the fact he has more public presence than, I think, any draft pick, ever.

I’m not sure where you’re drawing the line between publicity and public presence.

I like what was said in a different podcast - the draft is ultimately about risk assessment (and reward). The reward for sanders compared to the risk is far worse than milroe or the others, at least in the mind of the decision makers. Fwiw, I’d have taken him before Dillon, but I’m not running a franchise or dealing with Deion.

You seem upset that the NFL decision makers didn’t find the risk / reward with Sanders worth taking until the fifth. It’s notable that the team that did hasn’t shown to be great judges here when it comes to QBs and are perhaps a bit desperate.

To be sure, it could work out. But what does this working out look like to you? IMO it’s competent game management with a lot of drama. Not something I’m interested in for my team (granted, competence hasn’t been the titans way these last few years).

Not at all upset. Let me be clear, as a Raider fan I was worried about ending up with him in Las Vegas.

I spoke about that regularly in the Raiders thread.

I didn't want to deal with that circus either.

But I certainly believe, from a pure football perspective he is a better prospect than Milroe, Dart, Shogh and whatever that dudes name is from Oregon.

And my point is simply that his fall had very little to do with what happened in the field.

Around the third round is when I started think it was worth the risk of distraction. I started hoping the Raiders would take him with one of their picks at 98 & 99. But I understand why they didn't draft him. I understand why the Steelers didn't either (I expect Rodgers to sign there eventually and I think they do too).

In the fifth round, I think the Browns got an absolute steal. I imagine they're bitter they wasted a third on that Oregon dude.

I can tell you I was all too eager on Saturday at Pick #116 for the Miami Dolphins to take him, it felt like the right price for the kind of upside he could potentially bring
- I do not think the Browns are a good place for him to develop as a Quarterback based on the team's track history and I admit I could be wrong

Have we learned anything by watching Baker Mayfield who was seen as underachieving there and also didn't seem to impress anyone in Carolina?
He ends up with Sean McVay and starts one MNF game as I recall and the next thing you know he's the starting QB for Tampa

NFL owners ordered ‘entitled’ Shedeur Sanders be taken off draft boards: Boomer Esiason

Shedeur Sanders apparently isn’t the only person who “torpedoed” his NFL draft chances.

nypost.com

I don't know for sure if this is real news but it has Boomer's name on it so I have to assume it's true
I've never heard of such visceral hostility towards an incoming player that was predicted to be a Top 5 pick on over 90% of the sites, TV shows, media heads

 

[Chaka]

I think this represents the difference in how we talk about these things.

Shedeur was likely never a top five pick so there is no point in framing it that way. By the time draft date rolled around most people knew he might slide out of the first round.

The questions start at the Jaxon Dart pick. There was enough chatter pre draft that it wasn't entirely a surprise that he was the second QB taken.

Shough? Milroe? Dillon?!?!?!?

We don't need a breakdown of their relative merits, we know them. Shedeur's film is easily on par with all those guys.

This isn't about Sanders getting "publicity", this is about the fact he has more public presence than, I think, any draft pick, ever.

I’m not sure where you’re drawing the line between publicity and public presence.

I like what was said in a different podcast - the draft is ultimately about risk assessment (and reward). The reward for sanders compared to the risk is far worse than milroe or the others, at least in the mind of the decision makers. Fwiw, I’d have taken him before Dillon, but I’m not running a franchise or dealing with Deion.

You seem upset that the NFL decision makers didn’t find the risk / reward with Sanders worth taking until the fifth. It’s notable that the team that did hasn’t shown to be great judges here when it comes to QBs and are perhaps a bit desperate.

To be sure, it could work out. But what does this working out look like to you? IMO it’s competent game management with a lot of drama. Not something I’m interested in for my team (granted, competence hasn’t been the titans way these last few years).

Not at all upset. Let me be clear, as a Raider fan I was worried about ending up with him in Las Vegas.

I spoke about that regularly in the Raiders thread.

I didn't want to deal with that circus either.

But I certainly believe, from a pure football perspective he is a better prospect than Milroe, Dart, Shogh and whatever that dudes name is from Oregon.

And my point is simply that his fall had very little to do with what happened in the field.

Around the third round is when I started think it was worth the risk of distraction. I started hoping the Raiders would take him with one of their picks at 98 & 99. But I understand why they didn't draft him. I understand why the Steelers didn't either (I expect Rodgers to sign there eventually and I think they do too).

In the fifth round, I think the Browns got an absolute steal. I imagine they're bitter they wasted a third on that Oregon dude.

I can tell you I was all too eager on Saturday at Pick #116 for the Miami Dolphins to take him, it felt like the right price for the kind of upside he could potentially bring
- I do not think the Browns are a good place for him to develop as a Quarterback based on the team's track history and I admit I could be wrong

Have we learned anything by watching Baker Mayfield who was seen as underachieving there and also didn't seem to impress anyone in Carolina?
He ends up with Sean McVay and starts one MNF game as I recall and the next thing you know he's the starting QB for Tampa

NFL owners ordered ‘entitled’ Shedeur Sanders be taken off draft boards: Boomer Esiason

Shedeur Sanders apparently isn’t the only person who “torpedoed” his NFL draft chances.

nypost.com

I don't know for sure if this is real news but it has Boomer's name on it so I have to assume it's true
I've never heard of such visceral hostility towards an incoming player that was predicted to be a Top 5 pick on over 90% of the sites, TV shows, media heads

It was a Thursday night game after being released from Carolina the Rams signed him literally two days before starting him against my ####### Raiders.

Two days!

Nope, not still bitter about that in the least.

Nope, all good here.

 

[Bri]

https://x.com/RossTuckerPod/status/1916853285215969437/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1916853285215969437&currentTweetUser=RossTuckerPod

Cosell on Gabriel

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly

Let me flip this around and ask you what specifically has Shedeur Sanders done on the field to be expected to be drafted so highly.

Same question for Dart, Shough, Milroe & Dillon.

Sanders's tape is easily on par with any of those guys. He was also under a much bigger microscope than any of those guys.

Mostly agree. I think they were all 3rd/4th round talents in a higher rated QB class, maybe second if you're desperate and as I've stated before it's my opinion that Sanders was penalized two rounds based on attitude. Which is also why i think it was a justified place to take him.

I guess the difference in our questions is that I'm not suggesting any of them are first rounders and why I asked what Sanders has done on the field to warrant the lofty draft rankings he was getting.

I didn't watch every Jackson St game, or every Colorado game, but i saw as many as possible. I heard all about him as a prospect and wanted to see him play. Truth is i was left unimpressed for reasons I've mentioned a few times in this thread and the draft thread. Ward was in a class of his own in this draft, I was higher on Milroe than Sanders as a prospect, had Dart on par, wasn't familiar enough with Shough, and in no way should Gabriel have been drafted before any of them (I like Ewers and Howard more than him also).

I don't hate Sanders as a prospect, i just hated the pre draft ranking and said it before the draft. He looked like a third rounder to me all along and that's what happened. I'm not saying he's bad, just overhyped into something he isn't. There's still been very little analysis that I've seen about his play in here and that's where the third round grade comes in, the fifth round selection is from all the things we are talking about here though.

Ofcourse non football related factors influenced where he was selected, but it wasn't a travesty of justice. Third round talent taken in the fifth which I don't think was unjustified at all.

 

[-OZ-]

is a better prospect than Milroe,

On the field, sanders is a safer prospect than milroe, but I don’t think he’s necessarily better. Milroe has a chance to be great, albeit that’s a small chance.

 

[daveR]

is a better prospect than Milroe,

On the field, sanders is a safer prospect than milroe, but I don’t think he’s necessarily better. Milroe has a chance to be great, albeit that’s a small chance.

IMO, Milroe has the potential to evolve into Lamar Jackson, who himself evolved. It's a rare occurrence, but it happened once...

 

[3C's]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think Flacco starts the season but what's the argument for keeping Pickett?

They're not competing for anything this year.

Notably they decided not to pick up Pickett's fifth year option.

We could flip this around and say that unless Sanders wows you at camp right away, what's the argument for keeping a 5th round QB around?

He had a completion percentage ranking him first in all of college football, for one. Turned around two programs, for two. 3. Hight TD:INT.
He's going to wow! Have you watched him play?

His completion percentage was smoke and mirrors. Tons of completions at or behind the line of scrimmage.

Ex-Steelers star explains why Shedeur Sanders won't succeed in NFL: 'He ain't going to put fear in anybody'

Why did Sanders fall in the draft? This breakdown of his play might explain it

www.cbssports.com

Charting Shedeur Sanders: What numbers say about star’s 2025 NFL Draft outlook

Cam Ward looks like QB1 in this class, which puts Shedeur Sanders at QB2. Does his game make him worthy of that billing?

www.nytimes.com

In case access of the NYT article is difficult (some of the critiques and the summary):
Before we dive into the charting numbers, I’ll be honest: I struggle with Sanders on film. His arm is just okay, and he is not a dynamic athlete. Size isn’t a plus for him, either. Sanders’ game is built more on ball placement and decision-making (which we’ll get into), rather than overwhelming physical traits. There aren’t many first-round picks like that in recent history, and even fewer who have worked out.
Sanders’ overall accuracy numbers, for instance, are kind of cheesed. Sanders isn’t exactly inaccurate to any particular area of the field, but his accuracy rate is boosted by an absurd amount of screens and other throws behind the line of scrimmage. Just over 27 percent of Sanders’ charted throws were behind the line of scrimmage
Some of the nitty-gritty distinctions within Sanders’ accuracy numbers are alarming, as well. For example, 11.2 percent of Sanders’ throws required an unnecessary adjustment by the wide receiver in order to be caught. (Anywhere between 4-7 percent is a “normal” range when looking at my data from previous draft classes, while 8-9 percent tends to be at the high end of the spectrum; it’s incredibly rare to see anything above 10 percent).
His 41.7 percent accuracy into tight windows is firmly average.
Sanders also posted a paltry 59.7 percent success rate versus man coverage.
Realistically, Sanders is a quarterback prospect who can execute an offense but not elevate one. There’s nothing wrong with that. Plenty of quarterbacks spend a decade in the NFL with that kind of skill set, ranging from fringe cases, such as Jacoby Brissett, to long-term starters, such as Kirk Cousins.
But that’s also not typically the caliber of quarterback that goes in the first round. Quarterbacks like that are saved for picks 33-100

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think Flacco starts the season but what's the argument for keeping Pickett?

They're not competing for anything this year.

Notably they decided not to pick up Pickett's fifth year option.

We could flip this around and say that unless Sanders wows you at camp right away, what's the argument for keeping a 5th round QB around?

He had a completion percentage ranking him first in all of college football, for one. Turned around two programs, for two. 3. Hight TD:INT.
He's going to wow! Have you watched him play?

His completion percentage was smoke and mirrors. Tons of completions at or behind the line of scrimmage.

Ex-Steelers star explains why Shedeur Sanders won't succeed in NFL: 'He ain't going to put fear in anybody'

Why did Sanders fall in the draft? This breakdown of his play might explain it

www.cbssports.com

Charting Shedeur Sanders: What numbers say about star’s 2025 NFL Draft outlook

Cam Ward looks like QB1 in this class, which puts Shedeur Sanders at QB2. Does his game make him worthy of that billing?

www.nytimes.com

In case access of the NYT article is difficult (some of the critiques and the summary):
Before we dive into the charting numbers, I’ll be honest: I struggle with Sanders on film. His arm is just okay, and he is not a dynamic athlete. Size isn’t a plus for him, either. Sanders’ game is built more on ball placement and decision-making (which we’ll get into), rather than overwhelming physical traits. There aren’t many first-round picks like that in recent history, and even fewer who have worked out.
Sanders’ overall accuracy numbers, for instance, are kind of cheesed. Sanders isn’t exactly inaccurate to any particular area of the field, but his accuracy rate is boosted by an absurd amount of screens and other throws behind the line of scrimmage. Just over 27 percent of Sanders’ charted throws were behind the line of scrimmage
Some of the nitty-gritty distinctions within Sanders’ accuracy numbers are alarming, as well. For example, 11.2 percent of Sanders’ throws required an unnecessary adjustment by the wide receiver in order to be caught. (Anywhere between 4-7 percent is a “normal” range when looking at my data from previous draft classes, while 8-9 percent tends to be at the high end of the spectrum; it’s incredibly rare to see anything above 10 percent).
His 41.7 percent accuracy into tight windows is firmly average.
Sanders also posted a paltry 59.7 percent success rate versus man coverage.
Realistically, Sanders is a quarterback prospect who can execute an offense but not elevate one. There’s nothing wrong with that. Plenty of quarterbacks spend a decade in the NFL with that kind of skill set, ranging from fringe cases, such as Jacoby Brissett, to long-term starters, such as Kirk Cousins.
But that’s also not typically the caliber of quarterback that goes in the first round. Quarterbacks like that are saved for picks 33-100

This is what I'm talking about. Excellent analysis and really gets to the heart of why things went the way they did draft weekend.

 

[Major]

I imagine they're bitter they wasted a third on that Oregon dude.

I'm convinced they drafted Gabriel earlier than expected so they didn't have to deal with Haslam badgering them to take SS. Then when he was available in the 5th he made them. Doesn't sound like an ideal QB situation and/or draft strategy.

 

[3C's]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think Flacco starts the season but what's the argument for keeping Pickett?

They're not competing for anything this year.

Notably they decided not to pick up Pickett's fifth year option.

The argument for Pickett is 30 games played (25 starts) in the NFL versus 0 for Gabriel and Sanders. It's highly unlikely they go into the season with 1 guy who's had NFL experience.

 

[3C's]

I imagine they're bitter they wasted a third on that Oregon dude.

I'm convinced they drafted Gabriel earlier than expected so they didn't have to deal with Haslam urging them to take SS. Then when he was available in the 5th he made them. Doesn't sound like an ideal QB situation and/or draft strategy.

Sounds like Sanders was entirely a Haslam pick.

Kevin Stefanski & Browns Front Office Unhappy With Jimmy Haslam’s Role in Shedeur Sanders Draft – Report

Muted reactions from the Browns draft room hint at tension over Shedeur Sanders' selection, with Jimmy Haslam's influence raising eyebrows.

www.essentiallysports.com

 

[TomServo]

I am going to plant my little flag here that says Oregon dude > Flacco > Deion's kid when it is all said and done. I saw nothing from CU last year that would indicate Shadeur will beat anyone out.

 

[3C's]

I am going to plant my little flag here that says Oregon dude > Flacco > Deion's kid when it is all said and done. I saw nothing from CU last year that would indicate Shadeur will beat anyone out.

Feels like if Gabriel was a few inches taller he goes in the 1st round.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm not going to go through several pages to find out, but has anyone posted the original Eli thread from 2004? Here it is: https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/manning-family-asks-sd-not-to-draft-eli.77081/

Good get.

Four pages.

Four.

Thank you. The forum is more active now.

Maybe it also has something to do with how Deion and Shedeur constantly intentionaly seek out attention vs. how the Mannings behaved at the time.

Stop throwing facts in here...

right? Oh wait, not even close to factual. Back in 2004 there was espn, am radio and there was print media. No iphones, no twitter, no instagram/social media, facebook had barely rolled out. Very different times

I think people were able to seek out attention before 2004.

But yes, social media of course amplified things. Will be interesting to see if Arch Manning is as good as some think and how he navigates the possible future transition to the NFL.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I have a little hesitation thinking that Joe Flacco will be a good mentor to rookie QBs after watching how he acted/preformed when the Ravens drafted Lamar Jackson. I like Flacco and he won a ton of games for Baltimore, but his actions then were not that of a team player.

Now, there's been a ton of water under the bridge since then so maybe he's everyone's favorite uncle nowadays and will teach those guys.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

I'm not going to go through several pages to find out, but has anyone posted the original Eli thread from 2004? Here it is: https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/manning-family-asks-sd-not-to-draft-eli.77081/

Good get.

Four pages.

Four.

Thank you. The forum is more active now.

Maybe it also has something to do with how Deion and Shedeur constantly intentionaly seek out attention vs. how the Mannings behaved at the time.

Stop throwing facts in here...

right? Oh wait, not even close to factual. Back in 2004 there was espn, am radio and there was print media. No iphones, no twitter, no instagram/social media, facebook had barely rolled out. Very different times

I think people were able to seek out attention before 2004.

But yes, social media of course amplified things. Will be interesting to see if Arch Manning is as good as some think and how he navigates the possible future transition to the NFL.

Arch is going to be interesting to watch, both as a player and a brand. Play this right and you're looking at a billion dollar entity. I have faith the Manning's and their team understand what to do and what not to do on and off the field. If nothing else the Sanders case was a lesson in how not to handle the transition to the NFL. It's a new world and front offices also need to grow and adapt with it, but the expectation of a player being football first and coachable isn't going away.

 

[Faust]

Brett Kollmann
After some thought, I think part of the issue for the Shedeur Sanders camp is that they didn’t hire an agent. An agent’s job is to give the client an accurate range of where they are projected to go so they know how to navigate the process.

Shedeur approached the process like a lock for the top 5 because that’s what the Sanders family honestly thought he was going to be. And unfortunately, they didn’t have anyone in their circle willing to tell them otherwise.

If he went into it knowing teams had day two grades on him, who knows…he may have done things differently. That’s why agents are important.

https://x.com/brettkollmann/status/1917091574481301504?s=61

 

[Chaka]

is a better prospect than Milroe,

On the field, sanders is a safer prospect than milroe, but I don’t think he’s necessarily better. Milroe has a chance to be great, albeit that’s a small chance.

IMO, Milroe has the potential to evolve into Lamar Jackson, who himself evolved. It's a rare occurrence, but it happened once...

You shouldn't tell me he can't evolve, Johnny. My mother told me he can't evolve once. Once!

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I have a little hesitation thinking that Joe Flacco will be a good mentor to rookie QBs after watching how he acted/preformed when the Ravens drafted Lamar Jackson.

When the Ravens drafted Lamar Joe was an entrenched starting QB with a Super Bowl ring. He wasn't a 40-year-old journeyman QB on his 2nd tour at a team who signed him as a FA when he was literally sitting on his couch late in a season when every single QB got injured. He wasn't and isn't in demand as a starter and he knows it. He gets what's expected of him and signed on with that understanding.

 

[Chaka]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think Flacco starts the season but what's the argument for keeping Pickett?

They're not competing for anything this year.

Notably they decided not to pick up Pickett's fifth year option.

The argument for Pickett is 30 games played (25 starts) in the NFL versus 0 for Gabriel and Sanders. It's highly unlikely they go into the season with 1 guy who's had NFL experience.

Sure, but to what end? Do you think they're honestly competing for something this year?

As a Raider fan I can tell you that going into a season with Minshew and O'Connell the only hope I had going into the season was for the highest draft pick possible.

And I don't know it for a fact but I know it's true that the players knew it too.

I would have been thrilled to have Shedeur as an option after the season officially went sideways. Less so for QB Oregon.

What Shedeur and the other one bring to the table, on top of hope for the future, which shouldn't be discounted, is that Pickett represents very little potential trade value.

I see Pickett as offering the least RoI on the roster.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I have a little hesitation thinking that Joe Flacco will be a good mentor to rookie QBs after watching how he acted/preformed when the Ravens drafted Lamar Jackson.

When the Ravens drafted Lamar Joe was an entrenched starting QB with a Super Bowl ring. He wasn't a 40-year-old journeyman QB on his 2nd tour at a team who signed him as a FA when he was literally sitting on his couch late in a season when every single QB got injured. He wasn't and isn't in demand as a starter and he knows it. He gets what's expected of him and signed on with that understanding.

You snipped the rest of my post which gave caveats given the passed time, but ok.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Who Will Be The Browns Week 1 QB? https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/who-will-be-the-browns-2025-week-1-starting-qb.816136/