QB Shedeur Sanders, CLE (7 Viewers)

[3C's]

Steelers imo are one of the top organizations in all of American sports and typically pick in the back half of the draft. So here's a prospect basically gifted to them not once, not twice, but three times at a position of need

Did REGRETS over Kenny Pickett lead the Steelers to pass on Shedeur Sanders? | First Take
the Steelers' regret over drafting Kenny Pickett in 2022 may have directly influenced their decision to pass on Colorado Buffaloes standout QB Shedeur Sanders

Regretted a 1st round pick so much they removed another "1st round pick" from their board all together. Seems plausible.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders

I seem to remember a lot of talk of "Daddy" Manning pulling strings for Eli. A lot of talk. I know it was a topic of conversation several times where I worked.

Maybe there has been a shift in the "media" since 2004?

I seem to recall it like you describe it

 

[pinkstapler]

Steelers imo are one of the top organizations in all of American sports and typically pick in the back half of the draft. So here's a prospect basically gifted to them not once, not twice, but three times at a position of need

Did REGRETS over Kenny Pickett lead the Steelers to pass on Shedeur Sanders? | First Take
the Steelers' regret over drafting Kenny Pickett in 2022 may have directly influenced their decision to pass on Colorado Buffaloes standout QB Shedeur Sanders

In the first round I 100% agree. And maybe even third round it still plays. But passing on him again in the fourth...

I said prior to the draft, the Steelers are one of the few organizations that have a solid history of handling headcases and dealing with drama. But that doesn't mean they'd want to either if they can avoid it. I think they are already end of the road with Pickens, don't think they wanted to sign up for the Shedeur show. And if he acted in the Steelers interview the same way reports have been and still are leaking about him acting in the others; Tomlin may be a players coach, but I don't imagine he's keen on getting disrespected either.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I want to make myself very clear because it could seem like I am trying to stoke the racism fires and that is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!
I do not think race played a factor in any of this.
I do think there is a disconnect between Baby Boomers and Gen Z, these new players entering the NFL
Some of these noobs already have more money than they will earn on their rookie contracts
100,000+ TikTok and YT, that's all these kids care about now is how to be an Influencer on social media

-I think what we see is possibly the bubbling up of some of that.
-I read that coaches or organizations purposely injected mistakes into Sanders interviews to see if Shedeur would catch them...count me in the group that DOESN"T LIKE THIS
-Did the NFL do that type of reverse questioning for very one of the QBs drafted?
-An anonymous NFL Coach said before the Draft there aren't many "Robert DeNiro" types in the draft or best of the best types and to me that shows how old that coach is
DeNiro is 81 and well past his prime, the inability to relate to some of these younger players entering the league has to be weighed in as a factor

What does Stephen Ross, one of the oldest owners now in the NFL, what does he know about football? If he didn't get it at 60 or 70, now he's 80+, what help is Ross in a War Room?

 

[dgreen]

I'm not going to go through several pages to find out, but has anyone posted the original Eli thread from 2004? Here it is: https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/manning-family-asks-sd-not-to-draft-eli.77081/

 

[Joe Bryant]

-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders

For me, I think the answer is is less about Archie and Deion and more about Eli and Shedeur.

If Sheduer had gone to Cleveland in the first round after Deion had said the Browns were one of the select teams Shedeur would play for, the situation would have been the same as it was for Eli and Archie. Rookie QB had the cards and used them to get what he wanted.

The "story" here is Deion talked up Shedeur as having the cards when the reality is he did not have the cards.

A guy pulls a power move and it works is one thing.

A guy pulls a power move and he falls to the 3rd round is another. That's the story as I see it.

 

[pinkstapler]

I want to make myself very clear because it could seem like I am trying to stoke the racism fires and that is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE
I do not think race played a factor in any of this.
I do think there is a disconnect between Baby Boomers and Gen Z, these new players entering the NFL
Some of these noobs already have more money than they will earn on their rookie contracts

Will dip out of the non-football Sander's stuff after this but let me meet you half way here.

Kids now have it harder than I did growing up, least IMO. Sure, some things were harder then. Few if any kids are getting shoved in lockers or beat up anymore. But they are getting blasted on social media. If I peed my pants in school the whole school might know by the end of the week. Now, kids in a district 30 miles away would know before my pants dried. Sander's definitely has had more public scrutiny that Eli, or probably anyone from earlier generations has had. But I think scrutiny from the league and the teams drafting these guys has stayed much more level. Again, I'm sure it's increased a bit, but mainly because so much of people's lives now have a digital footprint. Thank the lord there isn't a digital record of what 17 year old me thought about the world.

And, this is where I think people's viewpoints will start to vary more, but I feel (and it seems I'm not alone here), Sheduer (and Deion) did themselves 0 favors here. Not only did they not try to stay lowkey, they went the complete opposite direction and just about every decision, interview, tweet, etc. was seemingly to garner more attention. So, while from a macro view I can feel some empathy for kids today and what they have to go through past generations never did; it's hard to have that same empathy for someone who spent the majority of his time in college and the pre draft process actively seeking this attention out, even in negative ways.

The fact reports started leaking as soon as the combine about his negative attitude and demeanor (and had to get attacked by people like Josina Anderson slapping the race card on it), and are still coming out about him playing card games, taking phone calls, giving attitude to coaching staffs during his literal job interviews... sorry. I'm not going to be able to muster up a whole lot of compassion for this kid right now. I think he got a taste of what the youngins would call FAAFO these days. I keep reading "what about these other guys with criminal charges!"; what about personal responsibility? What about the world is fair? I'm sure everyone you work with that gets paid more must be because they are smarter and harder working than you? Or maybe they just kiss butt better. Maybe they know how to "play the game". Maybe they just hound their bosses for raises more often.

Sander's has an opportunity to make this whole debacle the brief first chapter of a what could be a best selling book. And realistically, it shouldn't be that hard. Gabriel is his only real competition to being potentially the best QB Cleveland has had in a decade +. But nepotism isn't driving the bus anymore. He's can't throw his line under the bus like college. He can't change the OC calls on the line and blame them when the play busts. He can't refuse to shake hands with someone over a twitter beef. He can't rely on Dad to carry the load and clean up the mess. It's likely to be the hardest he's ever had to work in his life to this point doing things which he's never had to do. Because, especially being QB, it's a lot more than on the field stuff that paves the path to his success. It's knowing your place, being a good teammate, putting the weight and blame on your own shoulders, listening to coaches even when you disagree, doing things even if you don't think it's the right thing to do. IMO, that'll all be ten times harder for him than beating out a 40 year old Flacco, because its seemingly stuff he hasn't put a whole lot of effort into up to this point.

But very possible for him. And if I picked one family member to have in my ear of his whole crew, it'd be Shilo. That kid did and said just about everything right through all this, and probably should get more credit for it. Hope he finds success with the Bucs. He "fired" his dad and hired an actual agent, so that's already a head start.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm not going to go through several pages to find out, but has anyone posted the original Eli thread from 2004? Here it is: https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/manning-family-asks-sd-not-to-draft-eli.77081/

Thank you.

Maybe some of the, "Why are people mean to the Sanders family when the Mannings got a total pass?" was a little misguided when we look at what was actually said.

First post:

I hate when players think they are above the system before they have proven anything AT ALL . . . just another reason for me not to like this kid.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Woof . Browns are obviously desperate for a long term QB but wonder how long this kid will stick. Even as a developmental practice squad QB. No one's going to tolerate a developmental practice squad QB taken in the 5th round that won't listen.

There's going to be a quick hook for him. He's competing for a roster/practice squad spot. Is he going to compete? Who knows if he realizes it.

Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer reports Browns QB Shedeur Sanders didn’t catch “mistakes intentionally planted” in an install during pre-draft evaluations.
The draft slide heard around the world ended when the Browns traded up to select Sanders with the No. 144 overall pick in the draft. While there have been multiple attempts to justify and/or criticize the slide, Breer touches on two instances that took place between Sanders and evaluators during the pre-draft process that may have worked against him. The first was an interception a team replayed for him in Indianapolis that Sanders “didn’t take blame for.” Breer goes on to say that “as they dove deeper into it, and how it might relate to the NFL level, Sanders simply concluded that he and the staff he was talking to might not be a match.” In another visit, Breer reports Sanders didn’t pick up on intentionally planted mistakes in an install, and when called on it “the resulting exchange wasn’t pretty.” Regardless of why he fell, Sanders is now a Day 3 pick who will need to impress in more ways than one as he looks to carve out his path in the NFL.
40m ago
Source: Sports Illustrate

Thank you. That's a great find from Breer.

As much as some folks seem to want to make it about things other than football, it seems to me like companies part of a multi billion dollar organization seemed to make business decisions based on how well they think these young men will be able to perform the job.

 

[Joe Bryant]

And for the really important thing - how Sanders performs at this level, this could wind up being the best thing that ever happened to him.

He's on a team with a clear path to a starting QB job. With a passionate fan base and an offensive minded head coach.

If there were concerns about his ego, this experience is likely great for curing that.

And now he can get to work on playing football.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Keeping it on Football here
The Cleveland QB Room as it stands right now...

Kenny Pickett - $2.6M Guaranteed - Drafted in the middle of the 1st Rd just 3 years ago in '22 and this is his 3rd NFL team already? It's going well for him.

Joe Flacco - $3M Guaranteed - Reports were he signed an $11M 1 yr deal but I find no evidence of that, they can release him and simply be out $3M to have him lead camp all summer.

Dillon Gabriel - 3rd Rd Rookie contract, not sure how much guaranteed he gets but Pickett is on Yr 4 of his rookie deal, doubt Gabriel collects much upfront cash here

Shedeuer Sanders - 5th Rd Rookie contract, stands to make even less than Gabriel. How long will Dillon and Shedeuer be teammates in Cleveland?

DeShaun Watson - $46M in salary, still seems to carry a lot of dead weight against the cap if they part ways with him

Who is the starter Week 1 for the Browns?
Who is the starter Week 8 for the Browns?

 

[Ray_T]

What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly

Let me flip this around and ask you what specifically has Shedeur Sanders done on the field to be expected to be drafted so highly. Because those of us saying he didn't deserve it based on play are backed up by 32 NFL GMs and those saying he should have been picked in the 1st or 2nd are backed up by Mel Kiper.

Not just Mel Kiper, c'mon man, are we gonna keep it real or just make up any ole facts that help shape the narrative?
Kiper was not alone

When Dianna Russini started the talk circuit on Draft Day 1 and said he wasn't going to be drafted in the 1st, there wasn't a mainstream voice that said he wasn't going 1st round
Not Colin, not SAS, not NFLN...let's be real here. Nobody was discussing Sanders being drafted Rd 5 on Day 3

-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders


Nothing personal LL, like your takes

Nothing personal taken. We're all just talking football and it's a fun conversation about a very polarizing player.

Here's my point though. Is anyone able to give me their personal analysis on him? I gave mine multiple times and i think in another thread pre draft i said the same to you. Did i think he was a 5th? No way. I thought based on play he was a 3rd, but perhaps there was potential to be a 2 since on paper it's a down year. What happened was that he was a 3rd round talent penalized to the 5th due to attitude. I mean he was drafted in the 5th so this is far from a hot take. Manning's don't act like that and displayed much better on field play, so I'm not sure that's a great comparison. I wasn't a fan of Elway or Eli refusing to play for certain teams either though.

So can you give a personal analysis to back up his first round grade? Or anyone else for that matter. The media takes were proven wrong, so what's the bull case that this guy is a franchise QB?

I read his scouting report. I've watched some tape. not as much as I'd like but some.

his scouting report actually reads a lot like Dak Prescotts did when he turned pro. Dak was a 4th round pick.

that said at the time he turned pro I felt he should have been drafted at least a round earlier and I thought (at that time) he Cowboys potentially got a deal.

that aside, I think this kid throws a bit better than Dak did at this point in his career. But Dak was better running the ball.

Personally I felt that this guy (based on talent) was likely a 2nd round pick who may creep into round 1. Then some of this off field hype, dad saying there were teams he wouldnt play for etc. etc. and I figured he might drop.

what I did not think was that hed drop into round 5. I figured he'd be a day 2 pick. possibly early day 3 if things went badly...... Clearly things went far worse than I could have anticipated. I wasnt surprised to see him fall out of round 2. even falling out of round 3 wasnt too much of a stretch. but after that, My belief is that there is something that is NOT talent related that caused him to fall further than that.

 

[Bri]

Delanie called it

Former star Delanie Walker saw Shedeur Sanders’ NFL draft fall coming — and cashed in on it

This three-time Pro Bowler’s prediction was considered blasphemous at the time.

nypost.com

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Maybe some of the, "Why are people mean to the Sanders family when the Mannings got a total pass?"

Eli was a better prospect and the Mannings GOT what they demanded.
Decades by go.
Social media enters into the mix and kids are brought up different.
Sanders' fam is heavy vested in social media.
Sanders are black.
Mannings are white the last time I looked.
Racism does exist and social media means everyone can chime in.
I'd say there is enough chemistry for many people to come to whatever conclusions their Internet will allow, and it allows it all so let's just get it out there.
Many African Americans TRULY believe there was/is a racist component in all of this. I doubt the owners colluded, but I unfortunately have heard enough that Shedeur fell because he wasn't good at football.
We shall see.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly

Let me flip this around and ask you what specifically has Shedeur Sanders done on the field to be expected to be drafted so highly. Because those of us saying he didn't deserve it based on play are backed up by 32 NFL GMs and those saying he should have been picked in the 1st or 2nd are backed up by Mel Kiper.

Not just Mel Kiper, c'mon man, are we gonna keep it real or just make up any ole facts that help shape the narrative?
Kiper was not alone

When Dianna Russini started the talk circuit on Draft Day 1 and said he wasn't going to be drafted in the 1st, there wasn't a mainstream voice that said he wasn't going 1st round
Not Colin, not SAS, not NFLN...let's be real here. Nobody was discussing Sanders being drafted Rd 5 on Day 3

-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders


Nothing personal LL, like your takes

Nothing personal taken. We're all just talking football and it's a fun conversation about a very polarizing player.

Here's my point though. Is anyone able to give me their personal analysis on him? I gave mine multiple times and i think in another thread pre draft i said the same to you. Did i think he was a 5th? No way. I thought based on play he was a 3rd, but perhaps there was potential to be a 2 since on paper it's a down year. What happened was that he was a 3rd round talent penalized to the 5th due to attitude. I mean he was drafted in the 5th so this is far from a hot take. Manning's don't act like that and displayed much better on field play, so I'm not sure that's a great comparison. I wasn't a fan of Elway or Eli refusing to play for certain teams either though.

So can you give a personal analysis to back up his first round grade? Or anyone else for that matter. The media takes were proven wrong, so what's the bull case that this guy is a franchise QB?

I read his scouting report. I've watched some tape. not as much as I'd like but some.

his scouting report actually reads a lot like Dak Prescotts did when he turned pro. Dak was a 4th round pick.

that said at the time he turned pro I felt he should have been drafted at least a round earlier and I thought (at that time) he Cowboys potentially got a deal.

that aside, I think this kid throws a bit better than Dak did at this point in his career. But Dak was better running the ball.

Personally I felt that this guy (based on talent) was likely a 2nd round pick who may creep into round 1. Then some of this off field hype, dad saying there were teams he wouldnt play for etc. etc. and I figured he might drop.

what I did not think was that hed drop into round 5. I figured he'd be a day 2 pick. possibly early day 3 if things went badly...... Clearly things went far worse than I could have anticipated. I wasnt surprised to see him fall out of round 2. even falling out of round 3 wasnt too much of a stretch. but after that, My belief is that there is something that is NOT talent related that caused him to fall further than that.

Has anyone made any comments in here about the look on the front office and coaches faces when this pick was announced?
It did not appear like there were a lot of high 5s going on and it does beg the question if Jimmy Haslam made a direct order to the front office in the 5th round
Wreckless Speculation on MoP's part I know but I wonder if something came from above
Why would they take Gabriel in the 3rd if they were taking Sanders at a certain point they just couldn't pass?
Was Sanders que'd up on any other Teams must pick later in the 5th or 6th/7th rounds? I haven't heard anything like that yet but I figure that info will leak

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Woof . Browns are obviously desperate for a long term QB but wonder how long this kid will stick. Even as a developmental practice squad QB. No one's going to tolerate a developmental practice squad QB taken in the 5th round that won't listen.

There's going to be a quick hook for him. He's competing for a roster/practice squad spot. Is he going to compete? Who knows if he realizes it.

Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer reports Browns QB Shedeur Sanders didn’t catch “mistakes intentionally planted” in an install during pre-draft evaluations.
The draft slide heard around the world ended when the Browns traded up to select Sanders with the No. 144 overall pick in the draft. While there have been multiple attempts to justify and/or criticize the slide, Breer touches on two instances that took place between Sanders and evaluators during the pre-draft process that may have worked against him. The first was an interception a team replayed for him in Indianapolis that Sanders “didn’t take blame for.” Breer goes on to say that “as they dove deeper into it, and how it might relate to the NFL level, Sanders simply concluded that he and the staff he was talking to might not be a match.” In another visit, Breer reports Sanders didn’t pick up on intentionally planted mistakes in an install, and when called on it “the resulting exchange wasn’t pretty.” Regardless of why he fell, Sanders is now a Day 3 pick who will need to impress in more ways than one as he looks to carve out his path in the NFL.
40m ago
Source: Sports Illustrate

Thank you. That's a great find from Breer.

As much as some folks seem to want to make it about things other than football, it seems to me like companies part of a multi billion dollar organization seemed to make business decisions based on how well they think these young men will be able to perform the job.

Exactly this. The average value of an NFL team is $6.49 billion. This isn't college anymore, time to put on the big boy pants and grow up. Shedeur Sanders didn't do that. As far as draft grades go I don't know where teams had him, so I don't know how far his attitude caused him to drop. What i do know is every single team in the NFL passed until pick 144 and if that doesn't speak volumes to both his ability to play football and his attitude nothing will. It's about making money and if your talents + charisma can do that you don't fall 143 picks, or wherever the prognosticators had him.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Dak was a 4th round pick.

Hmnn, think this had anything to do with Dak falling to the 4th round?
How Dak Prescott's DUI arrest affects his draft stock
...The arrest added a red flag on Prescott’s resume that includes being named a two-time first-team All-SEC quarterback, holding every passing record at Mississippi State and being the player who many consider the best player in program history.

ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr. listed Prescott as a second round pick last month. The Bleacher Report’s Matt Miller raved about the quarterback’s rise up draft boards after the combine.

 

[Football Jones]

What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly

Let me flip this around and ask you what specifically has Shedeur Sanders done on the field to be expected to be drafted so highly. Because those of us saying he didn't deserve it based on play are backed up by 32 NFL GMs and those saying he should have been picked in the 1st or 2nd are backed up by Mel Kiper.

Not just Mel Kiper, c'mon man, are we gonna keep it real or just make up any ole facts that help shape the narrative?
Kiper was not alone

When Dianna Russini started the talk circuit on Draft Day 1 and said he wasn't going to be drafted in the 1st, there wasn't a mainstream voice that said he wasn't going 1st round
Not Colin, not SAS, not NFLN...let's be real here. Nobody was discussing Sanders being drafted Rd 5 on Day 3

-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders


Nothing personal LL, like your takes

Nothing personal taken. We're all just talking football and it's a fun conversation about a very polarizing player.

Here's my point though. Is anyone able to give me their personal analysis on him? I gave mine multiple times and i think in another thread pre draft i said the same to you. Did i think he was a 5th? No way. I thought based on play he was a 3rd, but perhaps there was potential to be a 2 since on paper it's a down year. What happened was that he was a 3rd round talent penalized to the 5th due to attitude. I mean he was drafted in the 5th so this is far from a hot take. Manning's don't act like that and displayed much better on field play, so I'm not sure that's a great comparison. I wasn't a fan of Elway or Eli refusing to play for certain teams either though.

So can you give a personal analysis to back up his first round grade? Or anyone else for that matter. The media takes were proven wrong, so what's the bull case that this guy is a franchise QB?

I read his scouting report. I've watched some tape. not as much as I'd like but some.

his scouting report actually reads a lot like Dak Prescotts did when he turned pro. Dak was a 4th round pick.

that said at the time he turned pro I felt he should have been drafted at least a round earlier and I thought (at that time) he Cowboys potentially got a deal.

that aside, I think this kid throws a bit better than Dak did at this point in his career. But Dak was better running the ball.

Personally I felt that this guy (based on talent) was likely a 2nd round pick who may creep into round 1. Then some of this off field hype, dad saying there were teams he wouldnt play for etc. etc. and I figured he might drop.

what I did not think was that hed drop into round 5. I figured he'd be a day 2 pick. possibly early day 3 if things went badly...... Clearly things went far worse than I could have anticipated. I wasnt surprised to see him fall out of round 2. even falling out of round 3 wasnt too much of a stretch. but after that, My belief is that there is something that is NOT talent related that caused him to fall further than that.

Has anyone made any comments in here about the look on the front office and coaches faces when this pick was announced?
It did not appear like there were a lot of high 5s going on and it does beg the question if Jimmy Haslam made a direct order to the front office in the 5th round
Wreckless Speculation on MoP's part I know but I wonder if something came from above
Why would they take Gabriel in the 3rd if they were taking Sanders at a certain point they just couldn't pass?
Was Sanders que'd up on any other Teams must pick later in the 5th or 6th/7th rounds? I haven't heard anything like that yet but I figure that info will leak

Several people commented and said they looked surprised for a lack of a better word. I didn't see the vid, but it seems to me like you're on the right track.

In fact, drafting Gabriel could be a dead giveaway.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly

Let me flip this around and ask you what specifically has Shedeur Sanders done on the field to be expected to be drafted so highly. Because those of us saying he didn't deserve it based on play are backed up by 32 NFL GMs and those saying he should have been picked in the 1st or 2nd are backed up by Mel Kiper.

Not just Mel Kiper, c'mon man, are we gonna keep it real or just make up any ole facts that help shape the narrative?
Kiper was not alone

When Dianna Russini started the talk circuit on Draft Day 1 and said he wasn't going to be drafted in the 1st, there wasn't a mainstream voice that said he wasn't going 1st round
Not Colin, not SAS, not NFLN...let's be real here. Nobody was discussing Sanders being drafted Rd 5 on Day 3

-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders


Nothing personal LL, like your takes

Nothing personal taken. We're all just talking football and it's a fun conversation about a very polarizing player.

Here's my point though. Is anyone able to give me their personal analysis on him? I gave mine multiple times and i think in another thread pre draft i said the same to you. Did i think he was a 5th? No way. I thought based on play he was a 3rd, but perhaps there was potential to be a 2 since on paper it's a down year. What happened was that he was a 3rd round talent penalized to the 5th due to attitude. I mean he was drafted in the 5th so this is far from a hot take. Manning's don't act like that and displayed much better on field play, so I'm not sure that's a great comparison. I wasn't a fan of Elway or Eli refusing to play for certain teams either though.

So can you give a personal analysis to back up his first round grade? Or anyone else for that matter. The media takes were proven wrong, so what's the bull case that this guy is a franchise QB?

I read his scouting report. I've watched some tape. not as much as I'd like but some.

his scouting report actually reads a lot like Dak Prescotts did when he turned pro. Dak was a 4th round pick.

that said at the time he turned pro I felt he should have been drafted at least a round earlier and I thought (at that time) he Cowboys potentially got a deal.

that aside, I think this kid throws a bit better than Dak did at this point in his career. But Dak was better running the ball.

Personally I felt that this guy (based on talent) was likely a 2nd round pick who may creep into round 1. Then some of this off field hype, dad saying there were teams he wouldnt play for etc. etc. and I figured he might drop.

what I did not think was that hed drop into round 5. I figured he'd be a day 2 pick. possibly early day 3 if things went badly...... Clearly things went far worse than I could have anticipated. I wasnt surprised to see him fall out of round 2. even falling out of round 3 wasnt too much of a stretch. but after that, My belief is that there is something that is NOT talent related that caused him to fall further than that.

Has anyone made any comments in here about the look on the front office and coaches faces when this pick was announced?
It did not appear like there were a lot of high 5s going on and it does beg the question if Jimmy Haslam made a direct order to the front office in the 5th round
Wreckless Speculation on MoP's part I know but I wonder if something came from above
Why would they take Gabriel in the 3rd if they were taking Sanders at a certain point they just couldn't pass?
Was Sanders que'd up on any other Teams must pick later in the 5th or 6th/7th rounds? I haven't heard anything like that yet but I figure that info will leak

I saw this too. The guy (GM?) sitting next to Stefanski couldn't look less impressed. I had the same thoughts you do.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Delanie called it

Former star Delanie Walker saw Shedeur Sanders’ NFL draft fall coming — and cashed in on it

This three-time Pro Bowler’s prediction was considered blasphemous at the time.

nypost.com

Thanks. That's a good find too. I didn't hear about this when it was said.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think they 100% keep Flacco and the others are just fighting for 2 spots. And KP ends up the odd man out.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Delanie called it

Former star Delanie Walker saw Shedeur Sanders’ NFL draft fall coming — and cashed in on it

This three-time Pro Bowler’s prediction was considered blasphemous at the time.

nypost.com

Thanks. That's a good find too. I didn't hear about this when it was said.

Russini: 'High' chance Dart goes before Sanders

NFL insider Dianna Russini sits down with Dan Le Batard to share her latest reporting ahead of the NFL draft's first round, including Shedeur Sanders' outlook, how teams are ranking quarterback prospects, and more.

www.nbcsports.com

Same thing but I wanted to spotlight Russini for a couple reasons

1st and foremost I'm not a fan of hers and I haven't liked how she has ponied up beside Schefter and Rappaport and suddenly she's in the know, it's been bugging me for the last several years as she parades around talk circuits during the season as if she is any kind of expert. She never was working for any team's front office that I can find

Compare that to Louis Riddick who has actually worked for NFL teams in their front office and been heavily involved in war rooms before he went into journalism/TV
But the fact is she was blaring on a trumpet if anyone would listen to her but she was pretty sure Sanders was falling hard
Did she say he would be taken in the 5th round or was a Day 3 pick? Not exactly but she did say Shouck was going Top 40 and he went 39 IIRC, she was spot on most predictions she made

I wanted to give her a lot of credit, would have been easy to just agree with the talking heads and she didn't.
I saw this interview live on Thursday Morning during the DLS

 

[Ray_T]

The "story" here is Deion talked up Shedeur as having the cards when the reality is he did not have the cards.

A guy pulls a power move and it works is one thing.

A guy pulls a power move and he falls to the 3rd round is another. That's the story as I see it.

you nailed this.

he did not have the cards.

I felt he was likely a 2nd round talent that may go in round 1. then the power move happened and guess what. Nobody wanted any part of that.

they overplayed their hand.

someone made comments that race may have been a factor. I disagree. if anything he may have been overrated because of who his dad was. he was hyped as a first round talent, but I saw likely a 2nd round talent who (as you said above) likely overplayed his hand and got punished for it.

 

[massraider]

Eli got raked over the coals for being entitled as well. Really bad. I remember.

If you play well, no one cares.

Notice the Jalen Carter car racing story disappeared? Like, right away?

The outrage machine moves on. Some people will dislike Shedeur forever, but it doesn't matter. He throws for 300 and two TDs week 3, he'll have plenty of Browns fans

 

[N Zone]

Steelers imo are one of the top organizations in all of American sports and typically pick in the back half of the draft. So here's a prospect basically gifted to them not once, not twice, but three times at a position of need

Did REGRETS over Kenny Pickett lead the Steelers to pass on Shedeur Sanders? | First Take
the Steelers' regret over drafting Kenny Pickett in 2022 may have directly influenced their decision to pass on Colorado Buffaloes standout QB Shedeur Sanders

This was and is what I think happened.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The race angle seems a little odd since the 1/1 pick is also black. Along with dozens in between those picks.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think they 100% keep Flacco and the others are just fighting for 2 spots. And KP ends up the odd man out.

Yeah, Pickett almost has to be the odd man out. What a situation they put themselves in. Way past his prime vet, but can play and is likely a great locker room presence, 2 rookies (one a third rounder, not starting caliber. And the other a high profile yet risky player also probably not ready) and Kenny Pickett.

You have to keep Flacco and they had to have seen something in Gabriel they like. Sanders, if he comes in and puts his head down and really works on his game could turn into a solid QB. Pickett has to go most likely. Then if Flacco goes down you start making phone calls. Neither rookie should get tossed into a game in 2025.

 

[Marauder]

-I read that coaches or organizations purposely injected mistakes into Sanders interviews to see if Shedeur would catch them...count me in the group that DOESN"T LIKE THIS
-Did the NFL do that type of reverse questioning for very one of the QBs drafted?

I have no idea if they do this for all QB prospects or not, but this is exactly the kind of thing that I would expect coaches to do for all QB prospects. You're interviewing a guy for the most important position on your team. Something that can impact your franchise for years to come. This is a great way to get a feel for their attention to detail. Then, even if they don't catch it, how do they react when you point it out. I'm curious as to why you don't like it.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Steelers imo are one of the top organizations in all of American sports and typically pick in the back half of the draft. So here's a prospect basically gifted to them not once, not twice, but three times at a position of need

Did REGRETS over Kenny Pickett lead the Steelers to pass on Shedeur Sanders? | First Take
the Steelers' regret over drafting Kenny Pickett in 2022 may have directly influenced their decision to pass on Colorado Buffaloes standout QB Shedeur Sanders

This was and is what I think happened.

Then why the third and fourth?

 

[Deamon]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think they 100% keep Flacco and the others are just fighting for 2 spots. And KP ends up the odd man out.

Are they really going to just have 2 rookies as the only backups? No vet at all? Not sure either is ready to slide into a game right away.

2nd to that, it doesn't seem like Flacco will want to or ever has wanted to be a mentor. Flacco starting and the 2 rookies as backups would be a ****show

 

[Joe Bryant]

Eli got raked over the coals for being entitled as well. Really bad. I remember.

If you play well, no one cares.

Notice the Jalen Carter car racing story disappeared? Like, right away?

The outrage machine moves on. Some people will dislike Shedeur forever, but it doesn't matter. He throws for 300 and two TDs week 3, he'll have plenty of Browns fans

That's a great point.

It'll be the same for Travis Hunter and the Jaguars giving too much.

If you can play, nobody cares.

 

[renesauz]

For years the networks covering the draft bring up Rodgers draft day drop. That was nothing compared to this one. It'll be legendary!

Let's expand on this and talk about something that could almost be its own thread and I will be very careful to watch how I walk this line...

-Archie Manning did tell the NFL that Eli Manning would not play for the San Diego Chargers, yes or no?
When i google Eli Manning and the San Diego Chargers, it reads like this
Eli Manning was drafted by the San Diego Chargers with the first overall pick in the 2004 NFL Draft, but he refused to play for them.
Was Deion Sanders being any more egregious than the Mannings were back when Eli was entering the NFL?

2004 Draft, Eli Manning drafted No 1 by San Diego even though they knew he wouldn't play for them, they still sent a message that they were in charge
They traded him but he was a Charger before he was a Giant albeit not for very long

Interesting how this played out vs 2004 when the Mannings tried to tell the NFL how it was going to roll, will Arch do a similar thing when he enters the NFL?
3Cs, my post has nothing to do with yours

There is some comparison, but not a good one. Eli was a much better prospect for starters.

 

[renesauz]

For years the networks covering the draft bring up Rodgers draft day drop. That was nothing compared to this one. It'll be legendary!

Let's expand on this and talk about something that could almost be its own thread and I will be very careful to watch how I walk this line...

-Archie Manning did tell the NFL that Eli Manning would not play for the San Diego Chargers, yes or no?
When i google Eli Manning and the San Diego Chargers, it reads like this
Eli Manning was drafted by the San Diego Chargers with the first overall pick in the 2004 NFL Draft, but he refused to play for them.
Was Deion Sanders being any more egregious than the Mannings were back when Eli was entering the NFL?

2004 Draft, Eli Manning drafted No 1 by San Diego even though they knew he wouldn't play for them, they still sent a message that they were in charge
They traded him but he was a Charger before he was a Giant albeit not for very long

Interesting how this played out vs 2004 when the Mannings tried to tell the NFL how it was going to roll, will Arch do a similar thing when he enters the NFL?
3Cs, my post has nothing to do with yours

Maybe, just maybe, that’s because Eli projected to be the best player in that draft and a franchise starting QB whereas sanders projects to be a backup?

Or it could be other stuff people like Steven A smith want to make this into.

Nobody really knows, but which do you think is more likely?

I think MoP is talking about the response to Manning's actions relative to the response to Sanders.

Does being the #1 QB (and let's be real he was the #1 QB based on name recognition).

Outside of San Diego, where I live, I don't recall much of a national outcry against Manning for making that decision.

A decision that Shedeur did not make. His offense was to not interview outside of the top five. And we have 19 pages on him, before he has taken a snap in the NFL because of it. Is the entire Eli Manning thread even 19 pages?

I'm annoyed TBH at some of the turns this has taken. Just watched some of his pre draft interviews. WOuldn't have taken him either if I had an established vet in front of him. No way I'd want him as a backup. But I also can't stand the overly blingy look at me types. The sight of that 2 inch thick chain with the 10 pound lawn ornament hanging from it doesn't help things at all

 

[renesauz]

I want to make myself very clear because it could seem like I am trying to stoke the racism fires and that is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE
I do not think race played a factor in any of this.
I do think there is a disconnect between Baby Boomers and Gen Z, these new players entering the NFL
Some of these noobs already have more money than they will earn on their rookie contracts

Will dip out of the non-football Sander's stuff after this but let me meet you half way here.

Kids now have it harder than I did growing up, least IMO. Sure, some things were harder then. Few if any kids are getting shoved in lockers or beat up anymore. But they are getting blasted on social media. If I peed my pants in school the whole school might know by the end of the week. Now, kids in a district 30 miles away would know before my pants dried. Sander's definitely has had more public scrutiny that Eli, or probably anyone from earlier generations has had. But I think scrutiny from the league and the teams drafting these guys has stayed much more level. Again, I'm sure it's increased a bit, but mainly because so much of people's lives now have a digital footprint. Thank the lord there isn't a digital record of what 17 year old me thought about the world.

And, this is where I think people's viewpoints will start to vary more, but I feel (and it seems I'm not alone here), Sheduer (and Deion) did themselves 0 favors here. Not only did they not try to stay lowkey, they went the complete opposite direction and just about every decision, interview, tweet, etc. was seemingly to garner more attention. So, while from a macro view I can feel some empathy for kids today and what they have to go through past generations never did; it's hard to have that same empathy for someone who spent the majority of his time in college and the pre draft process actively seeking this attention out, even in negative ways.

The fact reports started leaking as soon as the combine about his negative attitude and demeanor (and had to get attacked by people like Josina Anderson slapping the race card on it), and are still coming out about him playing card games, taking phone calls, giving attitude to coaching staffs during his literal job interviews... sorry. I'm not going to be able to muster up a whole lot of compassion for this kid right now. I think he got a taste of what the youngins would call FAAFO these days. I keep reading "what about these other guys with criminal charges!"; what about personal responsibility? What about the world is fair? I'm sure everyone you work with that gets paid more must be because they are smarter and harder working than you? Or maybe they just kiss butt better. Maybe they know how to "play the game". Maybe they just hound their bosses for raises more often.

Sander's has an opportunity to make this whole debacle the brief first chapter of a what could be a best selling book. And realistically, it shouldn't be that hard. Gabriel is his only real competition to being potentially the best QB Cleveland has had in a decade +. But nepotism isn't driving the bus anymore. He's can't throw his line under the bus like college. He can't change the OC calls on the line and blame them when the play busts. He can't refuse to shake hands with someone over a twitter beef. He can't rely on Dad to carry the load and clean up the mess. It's likely to be the hardest he's ever had to work in his life to this point doing things which he's never had to do. Because, especially being QB, it's a lot more than on the field stuff that paves the path to his success. It's knowing your place, being a good teammate, putting the weight and blame on your own shoulders, listening to coaches even when you disagree, doing things even if you don't think it's the right thing to do. IMO, that'll all be ten times harder for him than beating out a 40 year old Flacco, because its seemingly stuff he hasn't put a whole lot of effort into up to this point.

But very possible for him. And if I picked one family member to have in my ear of his whole crew, it'd be Shilo. That kid did and said just about everything right through all this, and probably should get more credit for it. Hope he finds success with the Bucs. He "fired" his dad and hired an actual agent, so that's already a head start.

EXTREMELY well said. Let's not pretend the kid has no shot. He has the exact same shot he would have had as a late second rounder (which is where many had his talent pegged), just without the mile long rope a second rounder would have. If his talent is anywhere close to where he obviously thinks it is, he should win that QB battle. At worst he should spend half a season behind Flacco

 

[renesauz]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think they 100% keep Flacco and the others are just fighting for 2 spots. And KP ends up the odd man out.

That's my thought too. Pickett would have to be well ahead of both rookies to keep his spot as the Browns in a best case scenario are still a couple years from being truly competitive. Sanders doesn't have a high bar to clear to make the roster as long as his circus is kept in check

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

I am neither for or against Sanders. Back when he was predicted to be a first round pick I said that I thought he'd be a bust. If he plays well then I'll be eating humble pie and if he does poorly or plays himself out of the league then I'll be right. Simple as.

 

[N Zone]

Steelers imo are one of the top organizations in all of American sports and typically pick in the back half of the draft. So here's a prospect basically gifted to them not once, not twice, but three times at a position of need

Did REGRETS over Kenny Pickett lead the Steelers to pass on Shedeur Sanders? | First Take
the Steelers' regret over drafting Kenny Pickett in 2022 may have directly influenced their decision to pass on Colorado Buffaloes standout QB Shedeur Sanders

This was and is what I think happened.

Then why the third and fourth?

Probably bigger need to get the RB in the 3rd and that Edge player in the 4th. They probably didn't view him as a franchise QB at all.

 

[eighsse2]

Shedeur Sanders' Slide Finally Ends

If this actually needs to be said: THIS IS PARODY!

 

[RandyDB]

What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly

Let me flip this around and ask you what specifically has Shedeur Sanders done on the field to be expected to be drafted so highly. Because those of us saying he didn't deserve it based on play are backed up by 32 NFL GMs and those saying he should have been picked in the 1st or 2nd are backed up by Mel Kiper.

Not just Mel Kiper, c'mon man, are we gonna keep it real or just make up any ole facts that help shape the narrative?
Kiper was not alone

When Dianna Russini started the talk circuit on Draft Day 1 and said he wasn't going to be drafted in the 1st, there wasn't a mainstream voice that said he wasn't going 1st round
Not Colin, not SAS, not NFLN...let's be real here. Nobody was discussing Sanders being drafted Rd 5 on Day 3

-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders


Nothing personal LL, like your takes

Nothing personal taken. We're all just talking football and it's a fun conversation about a very polarizing player.

Here's my point though. Is anyone able to give me their personal analysis on him? I gave mine multiple times and i think in another thread pre draft i said the same to you. Did i think he was a 5th? No way. I thought based on play he was a 3rd, but perhaps there was potential to be a 2 since on paper it's a down year. What happened was that he was a 3rd round talent penalized to the 5th due to attitude. I mean he was drafted in the 5th so this is far from a hot take. Manning's don't act like that and displayed much better on field play, so I'm not sure that's a great comparison. I wasn't a fan of Elway or Eli refusing to play for certain teams either though.

So can you give a personal analysis to back up his first round grade? Or anyone else for that matter. The media takes were proven wrong, so what's the bull case that this guy is a franchise QB?

I read his scouting report. I've watched some tape. not as much as I'd like but some.

his scouting report actually reads a lot like Dak Prescotts did when he turned pro. Dak was a 4th round pick.

that said at the time he turned pro I felt he should have been drafted at least a round earlier and I thought (at that time) he Cowboys potentially got a deal.

that aside, I think this kid throws a bit better than Dak did at this point in his career. But Dak was better running the ball.

Personally I felt that this guy (based on talent) was likely a 2nd round pick who may creep into round 1. Then some of this off field hype, dad saying there were teams he wouldnt play for etc. etc. and I figured he might drop.

what I did not think was that hed drop into round 5. I figured he'd be a day 2 pick. possibly early day 3 if things went badly...... Clearly things went far worse than I could have anticipated. I wasnt surprised to see him fall out of round 2. even falling out of round 3 wasnt too much of a stretch. but after that, My belief is that there is something that is NOT talent related that caused him to fall further than that.

Has anyone made any comments in here about the look on the front office and coaches faces when this pick was announced?
It did not appear like there were a lot of high 5s going on and it does beg the question if Jimmy Haslam made a direct order to the front office in the 5th round
Wreckless Speculation on MoP's part I know but I wonder if something came from above
Why would they take Gabriel in the 3rd if they were taking Sanders at a certain point they just couldn't pass?
Was Sanders que'd up on any other Teams must pick later in the 5th or 6th/7th rounds? I haven't heard anything like that yet but I figure that info will leak

I saw this too. The guy (GM?) sitting next to Stefanski couldn't look less impressed. I had the same thoughts you do.

MOP, I don't know that I would call it WRECKLESS speculation that Haslam made this call.

I heard the same thing on a couple of radio shows today. Someone even said he thought the reason Gabriel was drafted in the 3rd was simply to dissuade Haslam from insisting on Sanders.

 

[Chaka]

The idea that Shedeur's public profile wasn't the primary driver of his drop is a load of rich creamery butter.

Right, Teams totally avoid QBs with publicity or an ego.

Again. If the teams saw him as good as he sees himself, he’d have been a top 5 pick.

I think this represents the difference in how we talk about these things.

Shedeur was likely never a top five pick so there is no point in framing it that way. By the time draft date rolled around most people knew he might slide out of the first round.

The questions start at the Jaxon Dart pick. There was enough chatter pre draft that it wasn't entirely a surprise that he was the second QB taken.

Shough? Milroe? Dillon?!?!?!?

We don't need a breakdown of their relative merits, we know them. Shedeur's film is easily on par with all those guys.

This isn't about Sanders getting "publicity", this is about the fact he has more public presence than, I think, any draft pick, ever.

More than Manning, more than Tebow.

Tebow was the only one who even came close and that really didn't happen until after he was drafted. Tebow could have been on a roster as a backup QB for years but for the distraction he brought with him wherever he went.

The biggest social media personality in the world is tweeting about Shedeur. The Press Secretary for the White House is being asked questions about Shedeur Sanders!!!

We have 20+ pages on the guy and he's never taken a snap in the NFL!

If he was just John Q. Boring he likely would have been the second QB off the board. He certainly would have been drafted ahead of Gabriel Dillon.

 

[Chaka]

What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly

Let me flip this around and ask you what specifically has Shedeur Sanders done on the field to be expected to be drafted so highly.

Same question for Dart, Shough, Milroe & Dillon.

Sanders's tape is easily on par with any of those guys. He was also under a much bigger microscope than any of those guys.

 

[Chaka]

Woof . Browns are obviously desperate for a long term QB but wonder how long this kid will stick. Even as a developmental practice squad QB. No one's going to tolerate a developmental practice squad QB taken in the 5th round that won't listen.

Wait. I thought he was going to be a CFL/UFL QB?

 

[Chaka]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think Flacco starts the season but what's the argument for keeping Pickett?

They're not competing for anything this year.

Notably they decided not to pick up Pickett's fifth year option.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think Flacco starts the season but what's the argument for keeping Pickett?

They're not competing for anything this year.

Notably they decided not to pick up Pickett's fifth year option.

We could flip this around and say that unless Sanders wows you at camp right away, what's the argument for keeping a 5th round QB around?

 

[Chaka]

I want to make myself very clear because it could seem like I am trying to stoke the racism fires and that is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!
I do not think race played a factor in any of this.
I do think there is a disconnect between Baby Boomers and Gen Z, these new players entering the NFL
Some of these noobs already have more money than they will earn on their rookie contracts
100,000+ TikTok and YT, that's all these kids care about now is how to be an Influencer on social media

-I think what we see is possibly the bubbling up of some of that.
-I read that coaches or organizations purposely injected mistakes into Sanders interviews to see if Shedeur would catch them...count me in the group that DOESN"T LIKE THIS
-Did the NFL do that type of reverse questioning for very one of the QBs drafted?
-An anonymous NFL Coach said before the Draft there aren't many "Robert DeNiro" types in the draft or best of the best types and to me that shows how old that coach is
DeNiro is 81 and well past his prime, the inability to relate to some of these younger players entering the league has to be weighed in as a factor

What does Stephen Ross, one of the oldest owners now in the NFL, what does he know about football? If he didn't get it at 60 or 70, now he's 80+, what help is Ross in a War Room?

Yeah, I do not understand why anyone is talking race.

Let me guess; it's a Stephen A thing?

 

[Chaka]

I'm not going to go through several pages to find out, but has anyone posted the original Eli thread from 2004? Here it is: https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/manning-family-asks-sd-not-to-draft-eli.77081/

Good get.

Four pages.

Four.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I want to make myself very clear because it could seem like I am trying to stoke the racism fires and that is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!
I do not think race played a factor in any of this.
I do think there is a disconnect between Baby Boomers and Gen Z, these new players entering the NFL
Some of these noobs already have more money than they will earn on their rookie contracts
100,000+ TikTok and YT, that's all these kids care about now is how to be an Influencer on social media

-I think what we see is possibly the bubbling up of some of that.
-I read that coaches or organizations purposely injected mistakes into Sanders interviews to see if Shedeur would catch them...count me in the group that DOESN"T LIKE THIS
-Did the NFL do that type of reverse questioning for very one of the QBs drafted?
-An anonymous NFL Coach said before the Draft there aren't many "Robert DeNiro" types in the draft or best of the best types and to me that shows how old that coach is
DeNiro is 81 and well past his prime, the inability to relate to some of these younger players entering the league has to be weighed in as a factor

What does Stephen Ross, one of the oldest owners now in the NFL, what does he know about football? If he didn't get it at 60 or 70, now he's 80+, what help is Ross in a War Room?

Yeah, I do not understand why anyone is talking race.

Let me guess; it's a Stephen A thing?

It's the knee jerk reaction of some. They just can't help themselves.

 

[Chaka]

Maybe some of the, "Why are people mean to the Sanders family when the Mannings got a total pass?" was a little misguided when we look at what was actually said.

Four pages. Three actually. The fourth page is a few posts two years later.

All the posts were made in April 22, 2004 and then it was done.

We're on page 20 here.

 

[Chaka]

Gotta think the browns keep Flacco and Pickett. They're not going into the season with a rookie starter, and they're not going with 2 rookie backups. Hard to see them cutting their losses with a 3rd round pick. Going to be interesting.

I think Flacco starts the season but what's the argument for keeping Pickett?

They're not competing for anything this year.

Notably they decided not to pick up Pickett's fifth year option.

We could flip this around and say that unless Sanders wows you at camp right away, what's the argument for keeping a 5th round QB around?

The likelihood his draft drop was due to non football related issues. They also have four years to evaluate him but only one for Pickett and they didn't pick up his fifth year option and je hasn't shown much in two seasons as a starter.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm not going to go through several pages to find out, but has anyone posted the original Eli thread from 2004? Here it is: https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/manning-family-asks-sd-not-to-draft-eli.77081/

Good get.

Four pages.

Four.

Thank you. The forum is more active now.