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QB Shedeur Sanders, CLE (4 Viewers)
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The Longtime Lurker
Footballguy
Can you elaborate on why YOU think he was worth a first round pick? Forget what we were all told and let's go by what we saw with our own eyes. Here's what i saw, a guy that holds the ball to long, makes poor decisions under pressure, takes unnecessary sacks for big losses, average mobility, average arm strength, needs a clean pocket to deliver accurate passes, an extremely bad attitude, and someone that throws teammates under the bus instead of taking accountability for their own play. That said, there's definitely potential here, I'm not doubting that. The team scouts didn't make mistakes the media did. It's all about clicks and hot takes with them and it got carried away. NFL GMs don't seem to have seen it the same way. 3rd or 4th was probably right for talent and 5th was a penalty for the attitude.Every scout on planet earth is wrong, can't analyze film or understand what they're watching then.
It's a simple as that.
Find one scout that had it him outside the top 2 QBs of the class... What are you gonna come back with, some unknown twitter guy who had him ranked 3rd?
But yes... 5th round
I'll move along after this post, to much time spent on this guy, but i really am curious from people on what they think and not what Mel Kiper, Stephen A, or any of our other favorite prognosticators said. Sports media is a joke and i hope this was the dagger in the current model.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Or second, or third, or fourth.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Todem doesn't like them lefties, lol.
I completely agree though. One of the bigger head scratchers I've seen. He looks like the kinda guy who will come in week 5 for an injury, lead a couple scoring drives, then never lead another scoring drive the rest of his career.
daveR
Footballguy
Everyone assumes that the team forced him to play injured. At the time, he declared, "I'm gonna play!", so we know he had that intention. What doesn't sit right with me is that everyone could see that he physically couldn't. It was ugly and plain to see. Believing that the coaches are way ahead of the public on all things football, I wondered why. Adding it up, I speculated that maybe somehow (contractually?) the decision belonged to BM. If so, it would explain a lot of things, including contract extension problems, "immaturity" talk, and their decision to move on. Mind you, this has no basis in any insider info, just my guess. Later, info came out about how Baker turned his life around. Always good to hear!!!
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I agree. That was a horrible pick for the 3rd round.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I'm not rooting against Gabriel, thought Miami might take him during the draft this past weekend
That said, Gabriel went to several colleges including UCF, Oklahoma and finally Oregon
Dillon Gabriel College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
Check out Dillon Gabriel's College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits and More College Stats at Sports-Reference.com
www.sports-reference.com
I'm a little shaky on him, think he can be a decent back up. I didn't know he had more skills than Sanders which is another problem with the Browns
Gabriel or Sanders, pick one but not both in the same Draft, seems careless to me and not very forward thinking
Plus they have 2 first round picks next year, both could be in the Top 10, QB rich class and they are likely to pick another QB IMHO, one with a 1st Rd grade and a big time arm
Then it's Cleveland, you have to discount them just due to the organization and what they have produced as an expansion team since 1999
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I just have some worries on the "QB rich class" front. Self-admitted don't watch college football during the season much, and what I do watch in the off season is primarily to "scout" (using that word loosely hah) incoming NFL rookies. But that being said, reading and looking around it seems right now there are only 3 guys looked at as blue chip prospects for the NFL. One of those three is Arch, who most believe won't come out next year, and will be in the 2027 class. Another of those three is Nico Iamaleava, who just went though all that stuff with Tennessee and will now be playing for a new team in UCLA (and Tenn offense is NOT an NFL offense so it won't likely be an easy transition for him). Then you got Drew Allar for PSU. And it's not some be all, end all stat; but I keep reading people pointing out there are 0 QBs entering the 2026 NCAA season who had previous Heisman votes. Apparently it's the first time in a while that's the case, and it's not a death knell, but certainly isn't a promising thing either.I'm not rooting against Gabriel, thought Miami might take him during the draft this past weekend
That said, Gabriel went to several colleges including UCF, Oklahoma and finally Oregon
6 full years at college it appears, lost his starting spot a couple times and went thru the portal to keep being a starting QBDillon Gabriel College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
Check out Dillon Gabriel's College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits and More College Stats at Sports-Reference.com
I'm a little shaky on him, think he can be a decent back up. I didn't know he had more skills than Sanders which is another problem with the Browns
Gabriel or Sanders, pick one but not both in the same Draft, seems careless to me and not very forward thinking
Plus they have 2 first round picks next year, both could be in the Top 10, QB rich class and they are likely to pick another QB IMHO, one with a 1st Rd grade and a big time arm
Then it's Cleveland, you have to discount them just due to the organization and what they have produced as an expansion team since 1999
There could, and most likely will, be some risers who show out in college this year. But as of now... I'd honestly be a little nervous if I was an NFL team putting their eggs in the 2026 QB basket...
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I have a short list of QBs I will be watching closely. I don't think Arch will stay any longer than he has to but I understand with NIL and just enjoying being a kid, all good.I just have some worries on the "QB rich class" front. Self-admitted don't watch college football during the season much, and what I do watch in the off season is primarily to "scout" (using that word loosely hah) incoming NFL rookies. But that being said, reading and looking around it seems right now there are only 3 guys looked at as blue chip prospects for the NFL. One of those three is Arch, who most believe won't come out next year, and will be in the 2027 class. Another of those three is Nico Iamaleava, who just went though all that stuff with Tennessee and will now be playing for a new team in UCLA (and Tenn offense is NOT an NFL offense so it won't likely be an easy transition for him). Then you got Drew Allar for PSU.I'm not rooting against Gabriel, thought Miami might take him during the draft this past weekend
That said, Gabriel went to several colleges including UCF, Oklahoma and finally Oregon
6 full years at college it appears, lost his starting spot a couple times and went thru the portal to keep being a starting QBDillon Gabriel College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
Check out Dillon Gabriel's College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits and More College Stats at Sports-Reference.com
I'm a little shaky on him, think he can be a decent back up. I didn't know he had more skills than Sanders which is another problem with the Browns
Gabriel or Sanders, pick one but not both in the same Draft, seems careless to me and not very forward thinking
Plus they have 2 first round picks next year, both could be in the Top 10, QB rich class and they are likely to pick another QB IMHO, one with a 1st Rd grade and a big time arm
Then it's Cleveland, you have to discount them just due to the organization and what they have produced as an expansion team since 1999
There could, and most likely will, be some risers who show out in college this year. But as of now... I'd honestly be a little nervous if I was an NFL team putting their eggs in the 2026 QB basket...
'26 Class
-Arch Manning - Texas
-Cade Klubnik - Clemson...Dart went in the 1st...
-Drew Allar - Penn State
-Lenorris Sellers - South Carolina, entering his Junior Year, looked good last season
-Garrett Nussmeier - LSU
And then there are guys like Carson Beck who transferred from GA to Miami, he could do some of the same things Cam Ward did this past season
And there are some other names I could list, some of them and some of these guys I list will flip flop as the '25 college football season plays out this year.
I'd keep an open mind, lot available next year
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TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Man, Ole Miss hitting that legacy transfer portal hard...I have a short list of QBs I will be watching closely. I don't think Arch will stay any longer than he has to but I understand with NIL and just enjoying being a kid, all good.I just have some worries on the "QB rich class" front. Self-admitted don't watch college football during the season much, and what I do watch in the off season is primarily to "scout" (using that word loosely hah) incoming NFL rookies. But that being said, reading and looking around it seems right now there are only 3 guys looked at as blue chip prospects for the NFL. One of those three is Arch, who most believe won't come out next year, and will be in the 2027 class. Another of those three is Nico Iamaleava, who just went though all that stuff with Tennessee and will now be playing for a new team in UCLA (and Tenn offense is NOT an NFL offense so it won't likely be an easy transition for him). Then you got Drew Allar for PSU.I'm not rooting against Gabriel, thought Miami might take him during the draft this past weekend
That said, Gabriel went to several colleges including UCF, Oklahoma and finally Oregon
6 full years at college it appears, lost his starting spot a couple times and went thru the portal to keep being a starting QBDillon Gabriel College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
Check out Dillon Gabriel's College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits and More College Stats at Sports-Reference.com
I'm a little shaky on him, think he can be a decent back up. I didn't know he had more skills than Sanders which is another problem with the Browns
Gabriel or Sanders, pick one but not both in the same Draft, seems careless to me and not very forward thinking
Plus they have 2 first round picks next year, both could be in the Top 10, QB rich class and they are likely to pick another QB IMHO, one with a 1st Rd grade and a big time arm
Then it's Cleveland, you have to discount them just due to the organization and what they have produced as an expansion team since 1999
There could, and most likely will, be some risers who show out in college this year. But as of now... I'd honestly be a little nervous if I was an NFL team putting their eggs in the 2026 QB basket...
'26 Class
-Arch Manning - Ole Miss
-Cade Klubnik - Clemson...Dart went in the 1st...
-Drew Allar - Penn State
-Lenorris Sellers - South Carolina, entering his Junior Year, looked good last season
-Garrett Nussmeier - LSU
And then there are guys like Carson Beck who transferred from GA to Miami, he could do some of the same things Cam Ward did this past season
And there are some other names I could list, some of them and some of these guys I list will flip flop as the '25 college football season plays out this year.
I'd keep an open mind, lot available next year
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I'm terrible before morning coffee, changed that typo, thanks!Man, Ole Miss hitting that legacy transfer portal hard...I have a short list of QBs I will be watching closely. I don't think Arch will stay any longer than he has to but I understand with NIL and just enjoying being a kid, all good.I just have some worries on the "QB rich class" front. Self-admitted don't watch college football during the season much, and what I do watch in the off season is primarily to "scout" (using that word loosely hah) incoming NFL rookies. But that being said, reading and looking around it seems right now there are only 3 guys looked at as blue chip prospects for the NFL. One of those three is Arch, who most believe won't come out next year, and will be in the 2027 class. Another of those three is Nico Iamaleava, who just went though all that stuff with Tennessee and will now be playing for a new team in UCLA (and Tenn offense is NOT an NFL offense so it won't likely be an easy transition for him). Then you got Drew Allar for PSU.I'm not rooting against Gabriel, thought Miami might take him during the draft this past weekend
That said, Gabriel went to several colleges including UCF, Oklahoma and finally Oregon
6 full years at college it appears, lost his starting spot a couple times and went thru the portal to keep being a starting QBDillon Gabriel College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
Check out Dillon Gabriel's College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits and More College Stats at Sports-Reference.com
I'm a little shaky on him, think he can be a decent back up. I didn't know he had more skills than Sanders which is another problem with the Browns
Gabriel or Sanders, pick one but not both in the same Draft, seems careless to me and not very forward thinking
Plus they have 2 first round picks next year, both could be in the Top 10, QB rich class and they are likely to pick another QB IMHO, one with a 1st Rd grade and a big time arm
Then it's Cleveland, you have to discount them just due to the organization and what they have produced as an expansion team since 1999
There could, and most likely will, be some risers who show out in college this year. But as of now... I'd honestly be a little nervous if I was an NFL team putting their eggs in the 2026 QB basket...
'26 Class
-Arch Manning - Ole Miss
-Cade Klubnik - Clemson...Dart went in the 1st...
-Drew Allar - Penn State
-Lenorris Sellers - South Carolina, entering his Junior Year, looked good last season
-Garrett Nussmeier - LSU
And then there are guys like Carson Beck who transferred from GA to Miami, he could do some of the same things Cam Ward did this past season
And there are some other names I could list, some of them and some of these guys I list will flip flop as the '25 college football season plays out this year.
I'd keep an open mind, lot available next year
-OZ-
Footballguy
Hate work?
Dude was drafted in the fifth, passed on by multiple teams who at least needed a backup. If he was seen as adding more value than others taken to a franchise, he’d have been taken earlier.
I don’t buy into the collusion or race card in the NFL. I do believe teams try to act in their self interest, which can include things off the field even if not misconduct related.
daveR
Footballguy
I don't think the teams scratched him due to hatred. I think what we're reading in our comments is uninformed. Sometimes it's because of the mental make-up of the writer. Most times, it's fans trying to ascribe reasons that, doing the math, don't add up. That being said, sometimes our guesses "find an acorn".
Edit to clarify: That was a little hard to follow. I meant that the clubs probably each had their reasons. I expect that each had criteria for their ideal guy and criteria for red flags. I don't ascribe to collusion, in most cases. The internet, OTOH, fosters myriad trolls...
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and by his dad. who will lobby for the team to fire the coach if his son doesnt start.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Let's expand on this and talk about something that could almost be its own thread and I will be very careful to watch how I walk this line...
-Archie Manning did tell the NFL that Eli Manning would not play for the San Diego Chargers, yes or no?
When i google Eli Manning and the San Diego Chargers, it reads like this
Eli Manning was drafted by the San Diego Chargers with the first overall pick in the 2004 NFL Draft, but he refused to play for them.
Was Deion Sanders being any more egregious than the Mannings were back when Eli was entering the NFL?
2004 Draft, Eli Manning drafted No 1 by San Diego even though they knew he wouldn't play for them, they still sent a message that they were in charge
They traded him but he was a Charger before he was a Giant albeit not for very long
Interesting how this played out vs 2004 when the Mannings tried to tell the NFL how it was going to roll, will Arch do a similar thing when he enters the NFL?
3Cs, my post has nothing to do with yours
-OZ-
Footballguy
Maybe, just maybe, that’s because Eli projected to be the best player in that draft and a franchise starting QB whereas sanders projects to be a backup?Let's expand on this and talk about something that could almost be its own thread and I will be very careful to watch how I walk this line...
-Archie Manning did tell the NFL that Eli Manning would not play for the San Diego Chargers, yes or no?
When i google Eli Manning and the San Diego Chargers, it reads like this
Eli Manning was drafted by the San Diego Chargers with the first overall pick in the 2004 NFL Draft, but he refused to play for them.
Was Deion Sanders being any more egregious than the Mannings were back when Eli was entering the NFL?
2004 Draft, Eli Manning drafted No 1 by San Diego even though they knew he wouldn't play for them, they still sent a message that they were in charge
They traded him but he was a Charger before he was a Giant albeit not for very long
Interesting how this played out vs 2004 when the Mannings tried to tell the NFL how it was going to roll, will Arch do a similar thing when he enters the NFL?
3Cs, my post has nothing to do with yours
Or it could be other stuff people like Steven A smith want to make this into.
Nobody really knows, but which do you think is more likely?
Chaka
Footballguy
I think MoP is talking about the response to Manning's actions relative to the response to Sanders.Maybe, just maybe, that’s because Eli projected to be the best player in that draft and a franchise starting QB whereas sanders projects to be a backup?Let's expand on this and talk about something that could almost be its own thread and I will be very careful to watch how I walk this line...
-Archie Manning did tell the NFL that Eli Manning would not play for the San Diego Chargers, yes or no?
When i google Eli Manning and the San Diego Chargers, it reads like this
Eli Manning was drafted by the San Diego Chargers with the first overall pick in the 2004 NFL Draft, but he refused to play for them.
Was Deion Sanders being any more egregious than the Mannings were back when Eli was entering the NFL?
2004 Draft, Eli Manning drafted No 1 by San Diego even though they knew he wouldn't play for them, they still sent a message that they were in charge
They traded him but he was a Charger before he was a Giant albeit not for very long
Interesting how this played out vs 2004 when the Mannings tried to tell the NFL how it was going to roll, will Arch do a similar thing when he enters the NFL?
3Cs, my post has nothing to do with yours
Or it could be other stuff people like Steven A smith want to make this into.
Nobody really knows, but which do you think is more likely?
Does being the #1 QB (and let's be real he was the #1 QB based on name recognition).
Outside of San Diego, where I live, I don't recall much of a national outcry against Manning for making that decision.
A decision that Shedeur did not make. His offense was to not interview outside of the top five. And we have 19 pages on him, before he has taken a snap in the NFL because of it. Is the entire Eli Manning thread even 19 pages?
-OZ-
Footballguy
While there certainly was name recognition, to suggest he wasn’t really the top prospect seems like rewriting history. No insult to rivers or Ben, but I don’t recall a significant debate.
Chaka
Footballguy
The idea that Shedeur's public profile wasn't the primary driver of his drop is a load of rich creamery butter.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Right, Teams totally avoid QBs with publicity or an ego.
Again. If the teams saw him as good as he sees himself, he’d have been a top 5 pick.
scouts job is to tell everyone what the guys on field potential is.Every scout on planet earth is wrong, can't analyze film or understand what they're watching then.
It's a simple as that.
Find one scout that had it him outside the top 2 QBs of the class... What are you gonna come back with, some unknown twitter guy who had him ranked 3rd?
But yes... 5th round
the reason hes dropped is because of a lot of off field stuff.
the off field stuff speaks to fit, leadership, getting along with your teammates, and being coachable.
even the most talented player in the world isnt all that useful if hes not coachable. From what I hear, this is one of the concerns with him and why he fell in the draft. To be clear, his drop in the draft was NEVER about talent level. its all that other stuff I just mentioned. And that made him a far more risky pick. That said.... just like stock market news, everyone over reacts to bad news and he dropped in the draft by more than he probably should have. I figured hed go in round 2 or 3. or early round 4 at the very latest but he went in round 5. clearly an overreaction. Good for Cleveland I guess. They got a potential starting QB with a 5th round pick. Practically free. so good for them.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
He was a 1st Rd pick on every site I saw up to the Draft except...
While there certainly was name recognition, to suggest he wasn’t really the top prospect seems like rewriting history. No insult to rivers or Ben, but I don’t recall a significant debate.
PFF had him rated 46th overall on their Draft Board, also had Cam Ward about #15 overall
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Hey Ray, what off field stuff? Has Sanders ever been given a moving violation or parking ticket?scouts job is to tell everyone what the guys on field potential is.Every scout on planet earth is wrong, can't analyze film or understand what they're watching then.
It's a simple as that.
Find one scout that had it him outside the top 2 QBs of the class... What are you gonna come back with, some unknown twitter guy who had him ranked 3rd?
But yes... 5th round
the reason hes dropped is because of a lot of off field stuff.
the off field stuff speaks to fit, leadership, getting along with your teammates, and being coachable.
even the most talented player in the world isnt all that useful if hes not coachable. From what I hear, this is one of the concerns with him and why he fell in the draft. To be clear, his drop in the draft was NEVER about talent level. its all that other stuff I just mentioned. And that made him a far more risky pick. That said.... just like stock market news, everyone over reacts to bad news and he dropped in the draft by more than he probably should have. I figured hed go in round 2 or 3. or early round 4 at the very latest but he went in round 5. clearly an overreaction. Good for Cleveland I guess. They got a potential starting QB with a 5th round pick. Practically free. so good for them.
He was robbed of a a lot of jewelry that he left behind in a visiting locker room, he shouldn't walk around with that stuff but these college players are making bank
He's not the only one that is enjoying the gravy train of college football right now
What does Sanders lose in terms of income by going in the 5th round?
Drafted into a somewhat crowded QB room although if Sanders is as good as some think he is, should easily rise to the top?
Flacco is 40, Kenny Pickett is the guy that should be screaming for a trade or his outright release right now
Dillon Gabriel is celebrating one minute for going in the 3rd round to watching the circus pull in behind him during the 5th round when Sanders was taken
I doubt Gabriel's head is right this morning. Where does he fit in amongst them all?
Sanders off the field, no run ins with the law, no battered women, no assaults or arrests for violence on others, no public intoxication that I know of
He's pretty clean IMHO
RC94
Footballguy
Off-field only means run-ins with the law?Hey Ray, what off field stuff? Has Sanders ever been given a moving violation or parking ticket?scouts job is to tell everyone what the guys on field potential is.Every scout on planet earth is wrong, can't analyze film or understand what they're watching then.
It's a simple as that.
Find one scout that had it him outside the top 2 QBs of the class... What are you gonna come back with, some unknown twitter guy who had him ranked 3rd?
But yes... 5th round
the reason hes dropped is because of a lot of off field stuff.
the off field stuff speaks to fit, leadership, getting along with your teammates, and being coachable.
even the most talented player in the world isnt all that useful if hes not coachable. From what I hear, this is one of the concerns with him and why he fell in the draft. To be clear, his drop in the draft was NEVER about talent level. its all that other stuff I just mentioned. And that made him a far more risky pick. That said.... just like stock market news, everyone over reacts to bad news and he dropped in the draft by more than he probably should have. I figured hed go in round 2 or 3. or early round 4 at the very latest but he went in round 5. clearly an overreaction. Good for Cleveland I guess. They got a potential starting QB with a 5th round pick. Practically free. so good for them.
He was robbed of a a lot of jewelry that he left behind in a visiting locker room, he shouldn't walk around with that stuff but these college players are making bank
He's not the only one that is enjoying the gravy train of college football right now
What does Sanders lose in terms of income by going in the 5th round?
Drafted into a somewhat crowded QB room although if Sanders is as good as some think he is, should easily rise to the top?
Flacco is 40, Kenny Pickett is the guy that should be screaming for a trade or his outright release right now
Dillon Gabriel is celebrating one minute for going in the 3rd round to watching the circus pull in behind him during the 5th round when Sanders was taken
I doubt Gabriel's head is right this morning. Where does he fit in amongst them all?
Sanders off the field, no run ins with the law, no battered women, no assaults or arrests for violence on others, no public intoxication that I know of
He's pretty clean IMHO
-OZ-
Footballguy
Ok. That still doesn’t compare to Eli.He was a 1st Rd pick on every site I saw up to the Draft except...
While there certainly was name recognition, to suggest he wasn’t really the top prospect seems like rewriting history. No insult to rivers or Ben, but I don’t recall a significant debate.
PFF had him rated 46th overall on their Draft Board, also had Cam Ward about #15 overall
If you’re the top prospect, or truly elite you can get away with things others can’t.
I stand by what I said after round 1, even though I expected him to be taken higher too - the combination of outside stuff plus not being an elite prospect knocked him down significantly. He might very well turn into an absolute steal.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Of course not but let's look at who the Ravens took at the end of the 2nd round and the rumors surrounding him and women he's been involved with "off the field"Off-field only means run-ins with the law?Hey Ray, what off field stuff? Has Sanders ever been given a moving violation or parking ticket?scouts job is to tell everyone what the guys on field potential is.Every scout on planet earth is wrong, can't analyze film or understand what they're watching then.
It's a simple as that.
Find one scout that had it him outside the top 2 QBs of the class... What are you gonna come back with, some unknown twitter guy who had him ranked 3rd?
But yes... 5th round
the reason hes dropped is because of a lot of off field stuff.
the off field stuff speaks to fit, leadership, getting along with your teammates, and being coachable.
even the most talented player in the world isnt all that useful if hes not coachable. From what I hear, this is one of the concerns with him and why he fell in the draft. To be clear, his drop in the draft was NEVER about talent level. its all that other stuff I just mentioned. And that made him a far more risky pick. That said.... just like stock market news, everyone over reacts to bad news and he dropped in the draft by more than he probably should have. I figured hed go in round 2 or 3. or early round 4 at the very latest but he went in round 5. clearly an overreaction. Good for Cleveland I guess. They got a potential starting QB with a 5th round pick. Practically free. so good for them.
He was robbed of a a lot of jewelry that he left behind in a visiting locker room, he shouldn't walk around with that stuff but these college players are making bank
He's not the only one that is enjoying the gravy train of college football right now
What does Sanders lose in terms of income by going in the 5th round?
Drafted into a somewhat crowded QB room although if Sanders is as good as some think he is, should easily rise to the top?
Flacco is 40, Kenny Pickett is the guy that should be screaming for a trade or his outright release right now
Dillon Gabriel is celebrating one minute for going in the 3rd round to watching the circus pull in behind him during the 5th round when Sanders was taken
I doubt Gabriel's head is right this morning. Where does he fit in amongst them all?
Sanders off the field, no run ins with the law, no battered women, no assaults or arrests for violence on others, no public intoxication that I know of
He's pretty clean IMHO
Far worse than anything connected to Sanders IMHO
-What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly?
I'm not willing to say he was less than a 1st or 2nd round prospect so off the field now has to introduce Deion and the role he might have played in all this
Deion Sanders is featured on Saturday commercials representing "Insurance" which to be on there for Aflac, State Farm, All State, you gotta be squeaky clean for the most part
You might not like Deion Sanders style but to my knowledge the man also doesn't have a lot of off the field issues and is a Man of God that raises his children in that light
I've never heard of Sanders linked to much off the field troubles.
The way he presents himself on social media, I really have never looked and most guys 50 and over don't really care
Can he throw the football? Apparently what we saw on film or TV at Colorado was just a mirage or something
-OZ-
Footballguy
Losing to my Jayhawks was no mirage!
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Well at least he went to the right QB room. He'll have the currently injured Desaun Watson to mentor him off the field.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
He was the top prospect on Mel Kiper's board and Kiper wasn't the only oneOk. That still doesn’t compare to Eli.He was a 1st Rd pick on every site I saw up to the Draft except...
While there certainly was name recognition, to suggest he wasn’t really the top prospect seems like rewriting history. No insult to rivers or Ben, but I don’t recall a significant debate.
PFF had him rated 46th overall on their Draft Board, also had Cam Ward about #15 overall
If you’re the top prospect, or truly elite you can get away with things others can’t.
I stand by what I said after round 1, even though I expected him to be taken higher too - the combination of outside stuff plus not being an elite prospect knocked him down significantly. He might very well turn into an absolute steal.
He was running neck and neck with Cam Ward as went thru the off season, this was not a Johnny Manziel situation although ironically the same team selects him
The Longtime Lurker
Footballguy
Let me flip this around and ask you what specifically has Shedeur Sanders done on the field to be expected to be drafted so highly. Because those of us saying he didn't deserve it based on play are backed up by 32 NFL GMs and those saying he should have been picked in the 1st or 2nd are backed up by Mel Kiper.
I'm not weighing in on the other pick as that would be off topic for this thread. I'm personally not big on drafting players with off field issues in general.Of course not but let's look at who the Ravens took at the end of the 2nd round and the rumors surrounding him and women he's been involved with "off the field"Off-field only means run-ins with the law?Hey Ray, what off field stuff? Has Sanders ever been given a moving violation or parking ticket?scouts job is to tell everyone what the guys on field potential is.Every scout on planet earth is wrong, can't analyze film or understand what they're watching then.
It's a simple as that.
Find one scout that had it him outside the top 2 QBs of the class... What are you gonna come back with, some unknown twitter guy who had him ranked 3rd?
But yes... 5th round
the reason hes dropped is because of a lot of off field stuff.
the off field stuff speaks to fit, leadership, getting along with your teammates, and being coachable.
even the most talented player in the world isnt all that useful if hes not coachable. From what I hear, this is one of the concerns with him and why he fell in the draft. To be clear, his drop in the draft was NEVER about talent level. its all that other stuff I just mentioned. And that made him a far more risky pick. That said.... just like stock market news, everyone over reacts to bad news and he dropped in the draft by more than he probably should have. I figured hed go in round 2 or 3. or early round 4 at the very latest but he went in round 5. clearly an overreaction. Good for Cleveland I guess. They got a potential starting QB with a 5th round pick. Practically free. so good for them.
He was robbed of a a lot of jewelry that he left behind in a visiting locker room, he shouldn't walk around with that stuff but these college players are making bank
He's not the only one that is enjoying the gravy train of college football right now
What does Sanders lose in terms of income by going in the 5th round?
Drafted into a somewhat crowded QB room although if Sanders is as good as some think he is, should easily rise to the top?
Flacco is 40, Kenny Pickett is the guy that should be screaming for a trade or his outright release right now
Dillon Gabriel is celebrating one minute for going in the 3rd round to watching the circus pull in behind him during the 5th round when Sanders was taken
I doubt Gabriel's head is right this morning. Where does he fit in amongst them all?
Sanders off the field, no run ins with the law, no battered women, no assaults or arrests for violence on others, no public intoxication that I know of
He's pretty clean IMHO
Far worse than anything connected to Sanders IMHO
-What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly?
I'm not willing to say he was less than a 1st or 2nd round prospect so off the field now has to introduce Deion and the role he might have played in all this
Deion Sanders is featured on Saturday commercials representing "Insurance" which to be on there for Aflac, State Farm, All State, you gotta be squeaky clean for the most part
You might not like Deion Sanders style but to my knowledge the man also doesn't have a lot of off the field issues and is a Man of God that raises his children in that light
I've never heard of Sanders linked to much off the field troubles.
The way he presents himself on social media, I really have never looked and most guys 50 and over don't really care
Can he throw the football? Apparently what we saw on film or TV at Colorado was just a mirage or something
in Sanders case, its more about coachability. my understanding is that he pooched a lot of his interviews gave off that vibe that hes entitled. guys like that can sometimes be uncoachable.
though honestly that is (I think) a small part of this. part is his dad who has been all over the media saying stuff that makes me feel like hes a bit of a helicopter parent who will likely criticize the organization if he doesnt like the way they are handling his son.
as a GM/coach do you really want or need this? over a player who is a possible starter, but not likely a franchise saving player? the answer is no.
as for the attitude, I think the slide in the draft likely will give him some humble pie. I'm not sure if it was enough, but at least at the price they are paying, it is not like a big investment if they have to walk from him due to attitude or due to his dad stepping in and causing problems.
while I'm not certain how big an issue it is, but this is likely the #1 issue I'd be looking at if I'm a GM or a coach. and believe me, if I'm a coach and I think a player is uncoachable, I'm trying to influence my GM not to bring that element into my dressing room.
so when I say off field, it doesnt just mean run ins with the law. its the intangibles. the behaviour, and all that comes with it (which means the media circus that follows his dad)
my belief is that he fell further than he should have, but I'm also betting that we are not aware of some of the stuff happening behind the scenes. So I'm willing to give the whole NFL some latitude on this. and believe me.... if the whole NFL is passing on this kid up until round 5, there probably is good reason for it.
I once played on a team where there was a player who was clearly a stud. but everyone on the team hated the guy cuz he was a big jerk. coach ended up kicking him off the team and he played and starred for another team. but after that guy left, our team was actually better. This guy had caused so many problems with his attitude that nobody wanted to be there anymore. Once he left, the game became fun again for a lot of guys. so that was a classic case of addition by subtraction.
not saying this is the case, but if there are any concerns about this from a player who is supposed to be a leader in your dressing room of course you will want to pass on this in round 1 and probably round 2.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Woof . Browns are obviously desperate for a long term QB but wonder how long this kid will stick. Even as a developmental practice squad QB. No one's going to tolerate a developmental practice squad QB taken in the 5th round that won't listen.
There's going to be a quick hook for him. He's competing for a roster/practice squad spot. Is he going to compete? Who knows if he realizes it.
Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer reports Browns QB Shedeur Sanders didn’t catch “mistakes intentionally planted” in an install during pre-draft evaluations.
The draft slide heard around the world ended when the Browns traded up to select Sanders with the No. 144 overall pick in the draft. While there have been multiple attempts to justify and/or criticize the slide, Breer touches on two instances that took place between Sanders and evaluators during the pre-draft process that may have worked against him. The first was an interception a team replayed for him in Indianapolis that Sanders “didn’t take blame for.” Breer goes on to say that “as they dove deeper into it, and how it might relate to the NFL level, Sanders simply concluded that he and the staff he was talking to might not be a match.” In another visit, Breer reports Sanders didn’t pick up on intentionally planted mistakes in an install, and when called on it “the resulting exchange wasn’t pretty.” Regardless of why he fell, Sanders is now a Day 3 pick who will need to impress in more ways than one as he looks to carve out his path in the NFL.
40m ago
Source: Sports Illustrate
There's going to be a quick hook for him. He's competing for a roster/practice squad spot. Is he going to compete? Who knows if he realizes it.
Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer reports Browns QB Shedeur Sanders didn’t catch “mistakes intentionally planted” in an install during pre-draft evaluations.
The draft slide heard around the world ended when the Browns traded up to select Sanders with the No. 144 overall pick in the draft. While there have been multiple attempts to justify and/or criticize the slide, Breer touches on two instances that took place between Sanders and evaluators during the pre-draft process that may have worked against him. The first was an interception a team replayed for him in Indianapolis that Sanders “didn’t take blame for.” Breer goes on to say that “as they dove deeper into it, and how it might relate to the NFL level, Sanders simply concluded that he and the staff he was talking to might not be a match.” In another visit, Breer reports Sanders didn’t pick up on intentionally planted mistakes in an install, and when called on it “the resulting exchange wasn’t pretty.” Regardless of why he fell, Sanders is now a Day 3 pick who will need to impress in more ways than one as he looks to carve out his path in the NFL.
40m ago
Source: Sports Illustrate
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Not just Mel Kiper, c'mon man, are we gonna keep it real or just make up any ole facts that help shape the narrative?
Kiper was not alone
When Dianna Russini started the talk circuit on Draft Day 1 and said he wasn't going to be drafted in the 1st, there wasn't a mainstream voice that said he wasn't going 1st round
Not Colin, not SAS, not NFLN...let's be real here. Nobody was discussing Sanders being drafted Rd 5 on Day 3
-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders
Nothing personal LL, like your takes
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Name me just ONE other instance. ONE... Where a guy projected to guy as high as 2 or 3, went in round 5.
Just one.
Again, I'm not even here to argue with you if you say he isn't a rnd 1 QB... I'm absolutely fine w that. But rnd 5? Gimme a break... Even w off-field issues any other QB w his talent and "star power" goes in the 2nd at worst.
I never wanted my Browns taking him at 2... I thought it might happen, but never wanetd it... I wouldve been (and I stated) very ok with moving back into the 1st if he fell and they considered him a potential good QB.
The 5th? I'm laughing. I don't care if our QB room is 20 deep, I'd make that pick 8 days a week. Odds are he's starting at some point nesr the mid/end of the season
Just one.
Again, I'm not even here to argue with you if you say he isn't a rnd 1 QB... I'm absolutely fine w that. But rnd 5? Gimme a break... Even w off-field issues any other QB w his talent and "star power" goes in the 2nd at worst.
I never wanted my Browns taking him at 2... I thought it might happen, but never wanetd it... I wouldve been (and I stated) very ok with moving back into the 1st if he fell and they considered him a potential good QB.
The 5th? I'm laughing. I don't care if our QB room is 20 deep, I'd make that pick 8 days a week. Odds are he's starting at some point nesr the mid/end of the season
to be clear, I think the kid will be good for now. this massive slide in the draft likely has clipped his ears back a bit.
but if he starts to show signs of success....... thats when this issue (if it truly exists) could show itself again.
I'd say its likely a pretty humbling experience when you think you're a first round pick and you are taken in round 5. its likely embarrassing as well. and Hopefully this is a lesson he doesnt forget. it might be the best learning experience the kid can possibly have at this point in his career. Hey Kid, you're not as good as you think you are.
most first round players have to get their Azz handed to them on the field for a year before they realize they need to work their butt off to earn their spot in the NFL. so he got a little bit of this early and didnt have to do anything on the field to learn it.
personally I think this experience actually makes him a better candidate to succeed. If he were a first rounder, I think it would be a far harder transition.
The Longtime Lurker
Footballguy
Nothing personal taken. We're all just talking football and it's a fun conversation about a very polarizing player.Not just Mel Kiper, c'mon man, are we gonna keep it real or just make up any ole facts that help shape the narrative?
Kiper was not alone
When Dianna Russini started the talk circuit on Draft Day 1 and said he wasn't going to be drafted in the 1st, there wasn't a mainstream voice that said he wasn't going 1st round
Not Colin, not SAS, not NFLN...let's be real here. Nobody was discussing Sanders being drafted Rd 5 on Day 3
-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders
Nothing personal LL, like your takes
Here's my point though. Is anyone able to give me their personal analysis on him? I gave mine multiple times and i think in another thread pre draft i said the same to you. Did i think he was a 5th? No way. I thought based on play he was a 3rd, but perhaps there was potential to be a 2 since on paper it's a down year. What happened was that he was a 3rd round talent penalized to the 5th due to attitude. I mean he was drafted in the 5th so this is far from a hot take. Manning's don't act like that and displayed much better on field play, so I'm not sure that's a great comparison. I wasn't a fan of Elway or Eli refusing to play for certain teams either though.
So can you give a personal analysis to back up his first round grade? Or anyone else for that matter. The media takes were proven wrong, so what's the bull case that this guy is a franchise QB?
-OZ-
Footballguy
Was he, in the mind of those who actually make these decisions?
The thing is we really don’t know anything more than “experts” not employed by a team ranked him highly and the decision makers clearly didn’t when it mattered. The hype machine was out of control.
-OZ-
Footballguy
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Yeah and Jimmy Clausen will tell you Kiper should definitely be the premiere entity on all things around projecting QBs to the NFL....He was the top prospect on Mel Kiper's board and Kiper wasn't the only oneOk. That still doesn’t compare to Eli.He was a 1st Rd pick on every site I saw up to the Draft except...
While there certainly was name recognition, to suggest he wasn’t really the top prospect seems like rewriting history. No insult to rivers or Ben, but I don’t recall a significant debate.
PFF had him rated 46th overall on their Draft Board, also had Cam Ward about #15 overall
If you’re the top prospect, or truly elite you can get away with things others can’t.
I stand by what I said after round 1, even though I expected him to be taken higher too - the combination of outside stuff plus not being an elite prospect knocked him down significantly. He might very well turn into an absolute steal.
He was running neck and neck with Cam Ward as went thru the off season, this was not a Johnny Manziel situation although ironically the same team selects him
Wasn't he also a "Lamar needs to convert to WR/RB to get drafted" guy? Cmon now...
Eli Manning wasn't treated like Shedeur for a multitude of factors. The largest being social media was not a thing and not every bozo had a platform to spout nonsense from the rooftops where other bozos could take it and run with it. A good secondary one is find me interviews and articles of Eli touting his own greatness at every turn of the road leading to the draft. He didn't. Sheduer brought this on himself. As did his father. While you're unsuccessfully finding all those Eli quotes, find me the videos of Arch Manning on ESPN or network news stations speaking bombastically about Eli. It is legitimate troll bait trying to compare these two situations at all. They don't even come close to being the same. And NFL teams said as much with how that draft unfolded for Eli and how this one did for Sheduer. People are doing seriously unreal mental gymnastics to explain how the earth is flat here despite the literal library full of information pointing us to just about any other explination.
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WDIK2
Footballguy
I seem to remember a lot of talk of "Daddy" Manning pulling strings for Eli. A lot of talk. I know it was a topic of conversation several times where I worked.
Maybe there has been a shift in the "media" since 2004?
RC94
Footballguy
I think he can be the starter in CLE based on the talent on the depth chart vs. his talent. but I have my doubts he will achieve it. I think the biggest concern for me is that he's never had to compete for a job. His dad has always been his coach, so the starting job was always handed to him. It's easy to get yourself up to competing against the opponent when you have your team behind you, but it's totally different when you're on your own and are competing against teammates for a spot on the depth chart.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Great post, thank you for the reply, I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughtsI'm not weighing in on the other pick as that would be off topic for this thread. I'm personally not big on drafting players with off field issues in general.Of course not but let's look at who the Ravens took at the end of the 2nd round and the rumors surrounding him and women he's been involved with "off the field"Off-field only means run-ins with the law?Hey Ray, what off field stuff? Has Sanders ever been given a moving violation or parking ticket?scouts job is to tell everyone what the guys on field potential is.Every scout on planet earth is wrong, can't analyze film or understand what they're watching then.
It's a simple as that.
Find one scout that had it him outside the top 2 QBs of the class... What are you gonna come back with, some unknown twitter guy who had him ranked 3rd?
But yes... 5th round
the reason hes dropped is because of a lot of off field stuff.
the off field stuff speaks to fit, leadership, getting along with your teammates, and being coachable.
even the most talented player in the world isnt all that useful if hes not coachable. From what I hear, this is one of the concerns with him and why he fell in the draft. To be clear, his drop in the draft was NEVER about talent level. its all that other stuff I just mentioned. And that made him a far more risky pick. That said.... just like stock market news, everyone over reacts to bad news and he dropped in the draft by more than he probably should have. I figured hed go in round 2 or 3. or early round 4 at the very latest but he went in round 5. clearly an overreaction. Good for Cleveland I guess. They got a potential starting QB with a 5th round pick. Practically free. so good for them.
He was robbed of a a lot of jewelry that he left behind in a visiting locker room, he shouldn't walk around with that stuff but these college players are making bank
He's not the only one that is enjoying the gravy train of college football right now
What does Sanders lose in terms of income by going in the 5th round?
Drafted into a somewhat crowded QB room although if Sanders is as good as some think he is, should easily rise to the top?
Flacco is 40, Kenny Pickett is the guy that should be screaming for a trade or his outright release right now
Dillon Gabriel is celebrating one minute for going in the 3rd round to watching the circus pull in behind him during the 5th round when Sanders was taken
I doubt Gabriel's head is right this morning. Where does he fit in amongst them all?
Sanders off the field, no run ins with the law, no battered women, no assaults or arrests for violence on others, no public intoxication that I know of
He's pretty clean IMHO
Far worse than anything connected to Sanders IMHO
-What specifically has Shedeur Sanders done off the field to be treated so poorly?
I'm not willing to say he was less than a 1st or 2nd round prospect so off the field now has to introduce Deion and the role he might have played in all this
Deion Sanders is featured on Saturday commercials representing "Insurance" which to be on there for Aflac, State Farm, All State, you gotta be squeaky clean for the most part
You might not like Deion Sanders style but to my knowledge the man also doesn't have a lot of off the field issues and is a Man of God that raises his children in that light
I've never heard of Sanders linked to much off the field troubles.
The way he presents himself on social media, I really have never looked and most guys 50 and over don't really care
Can he throw the football? Apparently what we saw on film or TV at Colorado was just a mirage or something
in Sanders case, its more about coachability. my understanding is that he pooched a lot of his interviews gave off that vibe that hes entitled. guys like that can sometimes be uncoachable.
though honestly that is (I think) a small part of this. part is his dad who has been all over the media saying stuff that makes me feel like hes a bit of a helicopter parent who will likely criticize the organization if he doesnt like the way they are handling his son.
as a GM/coach do you really want or need this? over a player who is a possible starter, but not likely a franchise saving player? the answer is no.
as for the attitude, I think the slide in the draft likely will give him some humble pie. I'm not sure if it was enough, but at least at the price they are paying, it is not like a big investment if they have to walk from him due to attitude or due to his dad stepping in and causing problems.
while I'm not certain how big an issue it is, but this is likely the #1 issue I'd be looking at if I'm a GM or a coach. and believe me, if I'm a coach and I think a player is uncoachable, I'm trying to influence my GM not to bring that element into my dressing room.
so when I say off field, it doesnt just mean run ins with the law. its the intangibles. the behaviour, and all that comes with it (which means the media circus that follows his dad)
my belief is that he fell further than he should have, but I'm also betting that we are not aware of some of the stuff happening behind the scenes. So I'm willing to give the whole NFL some latitude on this. and believe me.... if the whole NFL is passing on this kid up until round 5, there probably is good reason for it.
I once played on a team where there was a player who was clearly a stud. but everyone on the team hated the guy cuz he was a big jerk. coach ended up kicking him off the team and he played and starred for another team. but after that guy left, our team was actually better. This guy had caused so many problems with his attitude that nobody wanted to be there anymore. Once he left, the game became fun again for a lot of guys. so that was a classic case of addition by subtraction.
not saying this is the case, but if there are any concerns about this from a player who is supposed to be a leader in your dressing room of course you will want to pass on this in round 1 and probably round 2.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I thought if he was drafted by the Steelers that it might work out for him but obviously they saw red flags and already burned a 1st on PickettNothing personal taken. We're all just talking football and it's a fun conversation about a very polarizing player.Not just Mel Kiper, c'mon man, are we gonna keep it real or just make up any ole facts that help shape the narrative?
Kiper was not alone
When Dianna Russini started the talk circuit on Draft Day 1 and said he wasn't going to be drafted in the 1st, there wasn't a mainstream voice that said he wasn't going 1st round
Not Colin, not SAS, not NFLN...let's be real here. Nobody was discussing Sanders being drafted Rd 5 on Day 3
-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders
Nothing personal LL, like your takes
Here's my point though. Is anyone able to give me their personal analysis on him? I gave mine multiple times and i think in another thread pre draft i said the same to you. Did i think he was a 5th? No way. I thought based on play he was a 3rd, but perhaps there was potential to be a 2 since on paper it's a down year. What happened was that he was a 3rd round talent penalized to the 5th due to attitude. I mean he was drafted in the 5th so this is far from a hot take. Manning's don't act like that and displayed much better on field play, so I'm not sure that's a great comparison. I wasn't a fan of Elway or Eli refusing to play for certain teams either though.
So can you give a personal analysis to back up his first round grade? Or anyone else for that matter. The media takes were proven wrong, so what's the bull case that this guy is a franchise QB?
Now if it weren't the Steelers I would say just keep taking QBs till they work out however in their defense, they build the rest of the team out pretty well, it's just a matter of time before even an avg QB finds success in Pittsburgh
The Longtime Lurker
Footballguy
It's telling though isn't it? Steelers imo are one of the top organizations in all of American sports and typically pick in the back half of the draft. So here's a prospect basically gifted to them not once, not twice, but three times at a position of need, but not only that the most important position in sports. Even if Rodgers is coming in you'd still draft for your future if you thought this guy was worth it. I'm doubting any of the conspiracies fit with what we know about the Steelers.I thought if he was drafted by the Steelers that it might work out for him but obviously they saw red flags and already burned a 1st on PickettNothing personal taken. We're all just talking football and it's a fun conversation about a very polarizing player.Not just Mel Kiper, c'mon man, are we gonna keep it real or just make up any ole facts that help shape the narrative?
Kiper was not alone
When Dianna Russini started the talk circuit on Draft Day 1 and said he wasn't going to be drafted in the 1st, there wasn't a mainstream voice that said he wasn't going 1st round
Not Colin, not SAS, not NFLN...let's be real here. Nobody was discussing Sanders being drafted Rd 5 on Day 3
-I want to know why the Mannings were not treated the same as the Sanders
Nothing personal LL, like your takes
Here's my point though. Is anyone able to give me their personal analysis on him? I gave mine multiple times and i think in another thread pre draft i said the same to you. Did i think he was a 5th? No way. I thought based on play he was a 3rd, but perhaps there was potential to be a 2 since on paper it's a down year. What happened was that he was a 3rd round talent penalized to the 5th due to attitude. I mean he was drafted in the 5th so this is far from a hot take. Manning's don't act like that and displayed much better on field play, so I'm not sure that's a great comparison. I wasn't a fan of Elway or Eli refusing to play for certain teams either though.
So can you give a personal analysis to back up his first round grade? Or anyone else for that matter. The media takes were proven wrong, so what's the bull case that this guy is a franchise QB?
Now if it weren't the Steelers I would say just keep taking QBs till they work out however in their defense, they build the rest of the team out pretty well, it's just a matter of time before even an avg QB finds success in Pittsburgh
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Did REGRETS over Kenny Pickett lead the Steelers to pass on Shedeur Sanders?
| First Takethe Steelers' regret over drafting Kenny Pickett in 2022 may have directly influenced their decision to pass on Colorado Buffaloes standout QB Shedeur Sanders
