Sabertooth
Footballguy
Looked to me like Pierce was in there a lot last night. I think he got in there the second series so it wasn't to give Rice a break either. Looks to have the makings of an RBBC type situation here.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce....uh oh (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I don't think Pierce is going to cut into Rice's numbers enough to hint at this becoming a RBBC. Notice Rice is in on the GL and 3rd downs. When they need the big time play to move the chains or score, they go back to Rice. Pierce is just a COP back. The numbers of last nights game were skewed because of the score and also the line looked out of sync from the time Michael Oher got injured.
I own both Rice and Pierce, and not a bit concerned. Chalk it up as just one of those games.
I own both Rice and Pierce, and not a bit concerned. Chalk it up as just one of those games.
ebsteelers
Footballguy
ray had 20 touches 8 catches though which is nice for an rb in ppr leagues plus a td.
pierce 9 touches and didnt do squat with them. 9 for 22, not that rice was better. 12 for 36. but he had the score.
Oline didnt look good run blocking at all.
I dont think I'd be too concerned just yet about Rice though.
I would be concerned about the Oline a bit if they struggle run blocking again against the Browns.
Whats the status of Oher going forward?
pierce 9 touches and didnt do squat with them. 9 for 22, not that rice was better. 12 for 36. but he had the score.
Oline didnt look good run blocking at all.
I dont think I'd be too concerned just yet about Rice though.
I would be concerned about the Oline a bit if they struggle run blocking again against the Browns.
Whats the status of Oher going forward?
Last edited by a moderator:
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I don't know how you can say that when he was out there for so many plays last night and Rice only rushed for like 35 yards or so.
fightingillini
Footballguy
What did everyone expect? Anyone with half a brain knew Pierce is going to get a significant piece of the pie. Rice got 12 carries Pierce got 9. It's not far from the 63/37 split that I expected going into this season. However Pierce, after his 1st carry of 14 yards, he ran the ball 8 times for 8 yards. But at the end of the day.....Rice got 20 touches and Pierce got 9.
If the Ravens D is this bad, BAL is going to be behind a lot and Rice could exceed 75 receptions.
So I wouldn't worry about Rice in a PPR league.
If the Ravens D is this bad, BAL is going to be behind a lot and Rice could exceed 75 receptions.
So I wouldn't worry about Rice in a PPR league.
ebsteelers
Footballguy
It will drive your insane though trying to figure out when to plug in Bernard as a flex though. I am sure he will have games where he does nothing like last night, and then games where he goes for 50 with 2 tds
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
I sincerely hope the Ravens run this exact mix of plays against the Browns next week, so I can swoop in afterwards and steal Ray Rice from a panicking owner or two.
I'd put the chances Rice drops below 300 touches this season at approximately zero.
Last edited by a moderator:
Shutout
Footballguy
He DID put up those points but I don't think it is as easy to brush off as you are saying. Honestly, Rice was one Wes Welker "gift fumble" away from being absolutely irrelevant last night in non-ppr.
In ppr, he's still getting his but for the first time, I see the chinks in the armor with Rice. I think he has the potential to lay a few duds this year, depending on the situations of the game and we usually don't see that from top 10 RBs (usually they find ways to get theres).
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
As a Rice owner, slightly concerned, but not overly concerned... I dratfed him in the first because I felt he had the lowest floor - I think he is safe for between 15-25 in a PPR league almost every game - Never gonna light the world on fire with 200 all purpose and 3 tds this year, but consistently give me what i need from him.
Run It Up
Footballguy
After his TD he was at 15 pts, that was with 2 QTRs left in the game. Hardly irrelevant - and as I said this is nothing new at all.
Last edited by a moderator:
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Did Rice line up wide when Pierce was in there? IIRC the Ravens said they would try and do that.
Run It Up
Footballguy
He lined up wide more than a handful of times, he motioned out of it more often than not. I think he only took 3-4 snaps out wide.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
ebsteelers
Footballguy
30 carries for 200 yards and 3 touchdowns!!!
8 catches for 100 and another touchdown!
fightingillini
Footballguy
As long as the Ravens defense looks that bad, Rice is going to catch enough passes to have a pretty high floor in PPR leagues.
Note that BAL faked to Rice and Flacco threw to Leach for the 1st TD. That TD could easily go to Rice.
Agree with you in non-ppr leagues.....I would be a little concerned.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
Calm down people. The Ravens aren't going to throw it 50 + times every week. Even in a 60/40 split for the carries, Rice will get just about all of the receiving work and he still looks like the trusted goal line option as well.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Wait. Rice got 20 touches last night and people are freaking out?
Run It Up
Footballguy
Its because Pierce got 9 touches (9 attempts, no targets) that people are freaking out, usually Rices backups have more touches.
Last edited by a moderator:
shader
Footballguy
The Ravens aren't going to run Rice into the ground. What do you guys want, 400 carries?
Baltimore got behind early, and began passing more. Oher was injured and Denver was KILLING Baltimore on defense.
The disconcerting thing for me, as a Rice owner, is not Pierce, but Baltimore's lack of downfield options. Teams would be smart to completely key in on Rice and Pierce, put their best CB on Torrey Smith, and take their chances. Baltimore's offense is going to STRUGGLE this year if they can't find more options in the passing game. Losing Pitta and Boldin are far more worrisome to me than Pierce.
Baltimore got behind early, and began passing more. Oher was injured and Denver was KILLING Baltimore on defense.
The disconcerting thing for me, as a Rice owner, is not Pierce, but Baltimore's lack of downfield options. Teams would be smart to completely key in on Rice and Pierce, put their best CB on Torrey Smith, and take their chances. Baltimore's offense is going to STRUGGLE this year if they can't find more options in the passing game. Losing Pitta and Boldin are far more worrisome to me than Pierce.
Resident A
Footballguy
I'm taking the opposite stance of most posters. I say the main reason Pierce only got 9 touches to Rice's 20 is due to the scoreboard. Rice is passing down back, we all know that. After halftime, the Ravens were in full-on passing mode and that heavily favors Rice.
Pierce is a solid back and will contribute more when the score is closer. I think we can expect closer to a 60/40 split next week.
Pierce is a solid back and will contribute more when the score is closer. I think we can expect closer to a 60/40 split next week.
shader
Footballguy
That would be a nice thought, except that Rice did most of his damage in the first half when the score was close
Run It Up
Footballguy
Rice had 3 more carries and 8 receptions.
Counting all touches it was a 55/45 split in favor of Rice this week.
What do you guys think is happening here? Does anyone really think Pierce is gonna get more than 170 carries? I doubt he cracks 150, either way it won't hurt Rice at all.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
What were their snap counts?
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
Exactly this. Folks, Pitta and Boldin had 261 targets last year combined. That's a huge number to replace. It was 18 more than the combo of Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz. 35 more than Randall Cobb and James Jones! Was everyone expecting Jacoby Jones and Ed Dickson to suddenly turn into Miles Austin and Jason Witten this season?
I'd be more worried about what this means for Rice's production if (a) he wasn't such a great pass-catcher out of the backfield and (b) the Ravens' defense (last night notwithstanding) wasn't capable of keeping most games close. Rice will get his. Maybe Pierce will get his, too, but if so, it'll be out of a larger RB pie. Because what are the Ravens' other options at this point?
Run It Up
Footballguy
Good question, from watching the game id say Rice was on the field 75% of the game.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Pierce wears down the D, so Rice can exploit them in the 2nd halves (4th qtrs) of games. And in the meantime Rice will be top three in RB receptions.
Pierce may keep Rice from being the #1 fantasy back, but at the same time he sort of ensures that Rice will be a top 10 RB by keeping him fresh all season. Situations like this can be more symbiotic than people think. Has to be the right mix of course, but they had it dialed in late last year, and last night was no different.
Pierce may keep Rice from being the #1 fantasy back, but at the same time he sort of ensures that Rice will be a top 10 RB by keeping him fresh all season. Situations like this can be more symbiotic than people think. Has to be the right mix of course, but they had it dialed in late last year, and last night was no different.
Yes, but he wasn't so good in non-ppr and the only reason he was worth a crap at all was because of Welker's botched punt return and the fact that Flacco threw the ball 62 times, so he got 11 targets. On days in which he doesn't get a free touchdown and Flacco only throws the ball 32 times, things won't look so rosy.
Last edited by a moderator:
ericttspikes
Footballguy
With that hodgepodge of average to bad receivers, Rice is going to get 80+ catches and have about 10 TDs. Not sure what people were expecting, but that seems good to me.
shader
Footballguy
For all the talk about how people are worried about Pierce, no one mentions that he was completely ineffective. The Oline was terrible last night, particularly after Ogden left. Ravens better hope him and Jones come back.
In the second half, that team was a shell of it's 2012 self. No Ogden, Jones, Boldin and Pitta. Four huge losses. Rookie Marlon Brown has promise, and could be the savior, but he's a wide-eyed rookie that has some seasoning to do.
(HULK)
(Smash)
I think you can pretty much throw out the 2nd half in terms of determining how the Ravens plan on using the 2 of them.
During the first half, they swapped at tailback every series. If the game didn't get out of hand, Rice would've had even less usage imo.
I can't, for the life of me, figure out why coaches would put in a less effective player in a game that was still close. But it looks like that is the Ravens gameplan.
In PPR he's fine, but in standard leagues, I think he's going to be more of RB10 to RB16 type of guy instead of a solid RB1. Which means I overpaid for him at my auction :(
During the first half, they swapped at tailback every series. If the game didn't get out of hand, Rice would've had even less usage imo.
I can't, for the life of me, figure out why coaches would put in a less effective player in a game that was still close. But it looks like that is the Ravens gameplan.
In PPR he's fine, but in standard leagues, I think he's going to be more of RB10 to RB16 type of guy instead of a solid RB1. Which means I overpaid for him at my auction :(
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
bagger
Footballguy
As I said in the other thread, Rice is a bit of a compiler. You are totally bummed about his performance and then realize he had 22 points.
I had Rice last year at 1.03 and got him this year at 1.06. I am happy with his output, but it is almost better not watching his games as it can be painful and then after a bunch of garbage time he produces at a level you are happy with.
I had Rice last year at 1.03 and got him this year at 1.06. I am happy with his output, but it is almost better not watching his games as it can be painful and then after a bunch of garbage time he produces at a level you are happy with.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
disagree. he had a nice 14 yard scamper early on and looked like he was going to compliment Rice well while he took a breather. both backs struggled to find any kind of daylight after Oher went down.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The 14 yard run (which was blocked very well) was the only thing he's done. Since gaining that weight he has looked pedestrian in the pre-season and again last night.disagree. he had a nice 14 yard scamper early on and looked like he was going to compliment Rice well while he took a breather. both backs struggled to find any kind of daylight after Oher went down.
While Rice finished with 36 yards he had much more decent runs then Pierce.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
We saw this happen over the course of the 2nd half of last year when Pierce went from averaging 18% of the carries to 38%. Carry wise, I'd expect 60/40 on a weekly basis. The "touch" ratio will fluctuate as it's dependent on the game state. Regardless, this isn't anything Rice owners shouldn't have seen coming from a mile away.
RUSF18
Footballguy
Wow, I'll admit I hadn't realized their targets were so high last year. Looks like Marlon Brown has some potential down the road, but considering what they needed to replace and Torrey Smith's general volatility, you really have to question Newsome on letting Boldin go over a couple million.
shader
Footballguy
ericttspikes
Footballguy
I'm actually more concerned as a Bernard Pierce owner. Not sure how many games they'll need him to salt away a big lead. Other than giving Rice a breather and the occasional red zone look, not sure what value he will have going forward. He's not a receiving back, so I'd expect Rice to be on the field more out of necessity. If Ed Dickson is really that bad, the Ravens need to figure out how to play Rice more, not less. Stokely/Dickson/Clark looked awful.
shader
Footballguy
In PPR, losing 5 carries a game is meaningless, as I think he'll easily get to the 80 reception mark and possibly challenging his career highs in receptions. Of more concern is if the line can't block and his ypc suffers as a whole.
Regardless, Ray Rice is an elite talent. He's going to have a really good season. Probably not enough usage to challenge for the number 1 or 2 spot, but should easily be top 5 in ppr.
shader
Footballguy
I never bought into the Pierce hype-train. Ray Rice is going to get the majority of goalline carries and receptions. Pierce might get 12-15 carries a game if he's lucky. Sure, he'll have 70 yards and a TD every now and then, but there is little upside and plenty of downside for his owners. He's basically a handcuff who you can possibly use as a starter if you are in dire straits, and if you are NOT in a ppr league. In a ppr league, he's virtually worthless, unless you think Rice is getting hurt.
Similar threads
