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RB Jerome Ford, CLE (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter barackdhouse
- Start date
Jimbo Slice
Footballguy
"up to"
It's "up to" $4mil, guessing a lot isn't guaranteed, and it's less than he made the last 2 years when he was the backup.
When he was the backup to Chubb who made a LOT more $ than him.
Don't kid yourself this is gonna be a 50/50 split. Heck it was a 60/40 split with one of the best RBs in football.
And? He was still the back-up, and made more than the absolute maximum he can make this year, so your "that's not backup money" comment is demonstrably false. It is less than backup money that this same team paid this same player for the last 2 years. We also haven't seen the details of the contract yet, it's entirely possible that it's "really" much less than that.
No idea how the split is going to go, none of us do. Most teams split though, it's not like Ford was going to be a bell-cow.
skinsrule05
Footballguy
The only way he is the backup is if Hunt has not kept himself in shape which is very possible.
markrc99
Footballguy
Hunt was chosen by this team because of his history with the offensive scheme. This player, needing this very circumstance in order to be viable again had to have been beaten out by Ford. Have no idea which premise is right or wrong but this could very well prove to be best case scenario for Ford. That it was Hunt they were looking to resign is what got me to ante up for Ford.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
Not sure if he was "beaten out by Ford" so much as the increased value in Hunt was not good enough to justify the cost increase from Ford's salary to Hunt's demand (offseason). Still think it will be a similar situation to last year with Hunt taking the change of pace role, but I could see Hunt getting a slightly larger share of playing time this time. Any way you carve it, Ford (or any other RB) is a huge drop off from Chubb.
Chaka
Footballguy
That's a bit misleading. In week 1 Ford got 8 of his opportunities after Chubb was pulled with 9 minutes left in the blowout. On Monday Chubb had 10 opportunities to only one for Ford before getting hurt.
With Chubb healthy the opportunity split was 32 to 8.
Agree, best case for Hunt is he gets the old 1B role he had with Chubb. But I'd be shocked he's close to that player now.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Messy timeshare incoming.
Hooray, another one.
Hooray, another one.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
Hunt was flat out bad last year. They chose Ford over Hunt for this season. Stefanski has stated in no uncertain terms that Ford will be the feature back. Hunt didn't have the benefit of a training camp and is coming in off the street cold. Hunt has missed half the season in 2 of the last 4 years. We knew Cleveland was going to add somebody. Hunt signing was inevitable IMO as he knows the offense/staff and they didn't have to give up a pick to get him. IMO signing Hunt was a best case scenario for Ford, much better than if they had traded for Akers.
fightingillini
Footballguy
I was going to write something similar to this.
markrc99
Footballguy
I did consider that it may have been salary related, but what kept them from resigning him right away? Also, my understanding is that a relevant portion of what teams pay veteran players who are paid the minimum doesn't count against the cap. Meaning, the incentive stuff they may pay him, but it doesn't affect the cap.
Streetduck
Footballguy
Board Bet, they let Hunt go and kept Ford. How does that statement even make sense? Hunt was brought back because he is familiar with the system. No one here knows any more than that.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Not correct
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Aren’t most?
Wait, Hunt is familiar with the system?
Browns offense will look ‘totally different’ in 2023
Browns offense will see significant changes in 2023
"Everything's new"
So a RB that wasn't with the team in the off-season is only signed because he is familiar with a "totally different" offense that has seen "significant changes" where "everything's new?"
Browns offense will look ‘totally different’ in 2023
Browns offense will see significant changes in 2023
"Everything's new"
So a RB that wasn't with the team in the off-season is only signed because he is familiar with a "totally different" offense that has seen "significant changes" where "everything's new?"
chad in Indy
Footballguy
What kept the Browns from immediately resigning him is because Hunt wanted more than the Browns were willing to pay at the time. He was an unrestricted free agent going into the season. It wasn't like he got cut. His contract was over.
Heisenberg23
Footballguy
CLE was gonna sign someone . Hunt has lost a step. His signing is the least intrusive to Ford owners - as opposed to Taylor, Akers, or Fornette. Ford should put up at least high end Rb2 numbers in that Browns system.
btemp
Footballguy
Come on...
It's the same staff, OC and HC. It'll be the same verbiage. Every offense changes year to year but Hunt will be familiar with the vast majority of it. They're not going from a wishbone to Air Coryell..
Stat Correction
Footballguy
^We have a winner ^
BespokeJort
Footballguy
I’m not honestly sure where he stacks up vs Akers or fournette at this point but yeah as a dyno owner I was assuming there would be an addition and the two categories of outcome were basically Taylor or Not Taylor (I guess I’d be even more bullish if they’d just reacquired a d’ernest johnson but that never seemed that likely).
He will get a shot to prove if he has it or not. If you think he does he’s a hold, if you think he doesn’t he’s a sell
He will get a shot to prove if he has it or not. If you think he does he’s a hold, if you think he doesn’t he’s a sell
skinsrule05
Footballguy
I would lump Akers, Fornette and Hunt all together. Taylor probably would have commanded a Chubb like role. Amongst those other guys and Ford I don't see anyone of them with that type of ability.
Don't forget, they are getting a mostly free look at Hunt. They could let him go in a week if he looks washed and they are out very little money.
markrc99
Footballguy
I would have appreciated your understanding of the rule. I'm citing an article I found, but it's not the 1st that I've read:
"The Veteran Salary Benefit (VSB) rule was created by the 2020 CBA and replaced the old Minimum Salary Benefit (MSB) Rule. These rules were put in place to allow veteran players to be signed to Cap-friendly deals instead of being replaced by cheaper, more Cap-friendly, younger players. The Veteran Salary Benefit allows veteran player to be signed to 1-year contracts with the applicable minimum salary (based on the player’s service time) and a small signing bonus ($152,500 in 2022), but only have to count that player at the salary level of a player with only 2 years of service time (plus the bonus)."
LawFitz
Footballguy
That isn't the type of contract Hunt signed. And very clearly wasn't a contract he would have considered this offseason as an alternative to Ford in the #2 role.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
So Hunt gets limited damage over the next few weeks while Ford gets destroyed by some of the toughest Ds in the NFL…
LawFitz
Footballguy
FTFY.
And to add more context, that choice of contract was for the #2 RB. Now they have a need for a #1 RB. Things are much different than they were 48 hours ago, yet less last offseason.
markrc99
Footballguy
I see, that's Chad's point, that it was a salary-related move. There was no such lowball offer because they knew he wanted more. Nor did he just sign for the vet minimum, okay got it. But still, there's their GM, (Berry) quoted.. this one is early April:
"... Pluto says that Cleveland believes the former league-leading rusher has lost his speed and has no plans on bringing him back." I realize you may say that's them, which means nothing! But it is corroborated by his performance from a year ago. I found content separate from the team's view stating that he sustained injuries in 2021 & didn't look like the same player in '22. Then of course, the fact that he didn't sign with any team. So there's other content that speaks to his game. Can you show me any offer that he rejected?
That said, looking into Hunt I did find content related to salary. But it was about a philosophical shift away from the run game & more to what suited the strengths of Deshaun Watson. Nick Chubb was more than just their lead ball-carrier. With him now, out of the way I fear a real shift away from a script that featured balance. Still wish I had Ford rather than Mims jr.
skinsrule05
Footballguy
Good point. The following 4 games (plus a bye) are brutal for the Browns running game. Ford was pretty bottled up, and that was against the worst run def in the league. Early on I can't imagine Hunt is much better. I don't think either is startable for six weeks when they play Seattle.
Ridgeback
Footballguy
What pick is reasonable to pay for this guy? So little history, and a low ypc for what he has shown. But, the opportunity is there. Probably best to wait until the smoke settles with Hunt being signed too. I'm thinking a third is about right, maybe with a middling RB or WR back.
BespokeJort
Footballguy
I don’t think you’ve got a prayer of getting a 24 y/o with a projected feature back workload who just looked pretty damn good on national TV for a 3rd
Feels like another of the many guys on the “buy for a 2nd, sell for a 1st” borderline
Feels like another of the many guys on the “buy for a 2nd, sell for a 1st” borderline
Shanahanigans
Footballguy
Tried to move him and two projected high 2nd 2024s for a projected top 6 in 2024 in dynasty, and was turned down, but they did contemplate for a long time, wasn't an automatic no. Hoping for one more big game, and then want to move him to get to a high first.
Ridgeback
Footballguy
No way I pay a 1st for him. Not with that resume. Not even sure I'd pay a 2nd, TBH.
BespokeJort
Footballguy
I get that, and there’s a very real chance you’re right. These guys are tough to value. If he excels you won’t touch him at today’s prices, if he sucks he’ll be nobody by seasons end and you’ll be glad you didn’t pay em.
There’s just zero upside in selling him for a 3rd tho. 3rds are routinely spent on guys with the same lack of resume/pedigree that we are just hoping get a shot like this, and have to hold for sometimes multiple seasons waiting. If I’d spent a 3rd on him this off-season I’d be ecstatic rn
Shanahanigans
Footballguy
Yeah, I probably wouldn't move him for less than two future 2nds rn. I just figure if a rookie draft was held rn he'd go in the 2nd, so why move him unless you don't think much of him. I wouldn't give a first or expect someone else to trade me a first though either.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
this is probably where I'm at..if I think it has a chance to be an early 2nd. which would be perhaps counterintuitive in the sense that it's the kind of trade a competing team makes, to trade for a RB, such that if that team is competing then at least *they* think their pick will be late.
so it's one where if I think the other owner is full of it and is overkicking their coverage then yes a single 2nd probably does it. but that's a super narrow market if at all so that's why yes it's one of those buy for a 2nd sell for a 1st borderlines.
the real trick is to find someone with stars in their eyes over the guy and get a strong player in return. a 1st is great but it probably isn't happening but maybe you can get a player you like of equivalent value. I've seen a couple of those posted lately like Waddle for some waiver guy plus a bag of chips. something like that.
also, my 'watch out for in your ear' moment is that Ford could be a league winner and holding and stacking winnings later might be the play.
titusbramble
Footballguy
This. First would be hilarious, if I knew the second I had would be late then maybe, but the situation where you're knowing that for sure and are in a position where you need to acquire Ford is surely limited to the exact spot where you have Chubb and passed on the opportunity to get a cheap handcuff last season, or any point prior to last week for that matter
BespokeJort
Footballguy
I mean, you coulda also lost dobbins or been relying on Mattison or any number of guys. Agreed it only really makes sense if you’re a contender with a hole. Lotta folks have holes at the moment though, especially in deeper leagues where there’s not much on the wire
If you don’t think he’s worth a 2nd I’m less even arguing with you on conviction of talent and more just saying you’re likely not acquiring him then. Would be shocked if a 3rd is the best most owners can get.
On fantasycalc he’s fetching a 1 a decent percentage of the time and a 2+ the majority of the time over the past few days fwiw. Not that trades being made means those trades weren’t bad
