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So how can we actually defeat Trump in 2020? (1 Viewer)

Cowboysfan8 said:
It was implied. Cmon lol
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I disagree...especially with what else I've read of the candidates talking about healthcare.

Like Mayor Pete

 “This is not about a handout. This is an insurance program. We do ourselves no favors by having 11 million undocumented people in our country be unable to access health care.” And then he added: “The real problem is we shouldn't have 11 million undocumented people with no pathway to citizenship. It makes no sense. The American people agree on what to do. This is a crazy thing. If leadership consists of forming a consensus around a divisive issue, this White House divided us around a consensus issue. The American people want a pathway to citizenship and protections for Dreamers.”

 
sho nuff said:
I disagree...especially with what else I've read of the candidates talking about healthcare.

Like Mayor Pete

 “This is not about a handout. This is an insurance program. We do ourselves no favors by having 11 million undocumented people in our country be unable to access health care.” And then he added: “The real problem is we shouldn't have 11 million undocumented people with no pathway to citizenship. It makes no sense. The American people agree on what to do. This is a crazy thing. If leadership consists of forming a consensus around a divisive issue, this White House divided us around a consensus issue. The American people want a pathway to citizenship and protections for Dreamers.”
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This is what should happen.  Get them in the system and tax them to help cover the cost just like everyone else.

 
sho nuff said:
I disagree...especially with what else I've read of the candidates talking about healthcare.

Like Mayor Pete

 “This is not about a handout. This is an insurance program. We do ourselves no favors by having 11 million undocumented people in our country be unable to access health care.” And then he added: “The real problem is we shouldn't have 11 million undocumented people with no pathway to citizenship. It makes no sense. The American people agree on what to do. This is a crazy thing. If leadership consists of forming a consensus around a divisive issue, this White House divided us around a consensus issue. The American people want a pathway to citizenship and protections for Dreamers.”
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Riiiiiight

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
If you think when those candidates  raised their hands that they expect illegals to PAY for the healthcare they were raising theirs hands about I don’t know what else to say to you 
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I think many of them have explained more of what they meant and showed that with a quote from Buttigieg.

Ive seen nothing posted to dispute my claims other than what amounts to nuh uh.

 
sho nuff said:
I think many of them have explained more of what they meant and showed that with a quote from Buttigieg.

Ive seen nothing posted to dispute my claims other than what amounts to nuh uh.
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“This is not a handout” does it for you huh?

Good luck with all that 

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
“This is not a handout” does it for you huh?

Good luck with all that 
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Given all else he has said and what I have read on multiple candidates.

Yes, it beats claims that they will all give it away for free with absolutely nothing to back it up.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
“This is not a handout” does it for you huh?

Good luck with all that 
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It’s not good. I disagree with @Widbil83 that’s it’s a campaign killer but it’s not good. 

It would have been so easy for some one like Biden or Harris not to raise their hand. I wouldn’t have and I’m as pro-undocumented as they come. I would have said “we need to to give them the basics for public health reasons, obviously. And we’re not going to let anyone die in the street. But full blown access to our health care system provided by the tax payer? Sorry no, that’s for citizens. Now I am for giving a lot of these people a path to citizenship, eventually, but it’s a long path.” 

So easy, but none of them had the smarts to say something like this. 

 
timschochet said:
It’s not good. I disagree with @Widbil83 that’s it’s a campaign killer but it’s not good. 

It would have been so easy for some one like Biden or Harris not to raise their hand. I wouldn’t have and I’m as pro-undocumented as they come. I would have said “we need to to give them the basics for public health reasons, obviously. And we’re not going to let anyone die in the street. But full blown access to our health care system provided by the tax payer? Sorry no, that’s for citizens. Now I am for giving a lot of these people a path to citizenship, eventually, but it’s a long path.” 

So easy, but none of them had the smarts to say something like this. 
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100% agree

 
timschochet said:
It’s not good. I disagree with @Widbil83 that’s it’s a campaign killer but it’s not good. 

It would have been so easy for some one like Biden or Harris not to raise their hand. I wouldn’t have and I’m as pro-undocumented as they come. I would have said “we need to to give them the basics for public health reasons, obviously. And we’re not going to let anyone die in the street. But full blown access to our health care system provided by the tax payer? Sorry no, that’s for citizens. Now I am for giving a lot of these people a path to citizenship, eventually, but it’s a long path.” 

So easy, but none of them had the smarts to say something like this. 
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The question didn't say full blown access covered by the taxpayer either.

 
Mile High said:
"This is a show of hands question and hold them up so people can see. Raise your hand if your government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants," 
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Thanks

I believe it was implied that it would be “provided”. As in “free”.

apparently some of them are backing off that now. I’m not surprised 

 
Daywalker said:
Dems care about the growing wealth inequality.  It may be fair when one guy accumulates all the chips at a poker table but it's not good for the game.  Quality of life is way down.  Both parents have to work.  Culture is dying because no one has the time nor money.

Healthcare the other issue.  Get less and less bang for your buck.  When corporations are buying commercials everywhere selling seasonal disorder medication to blind people you know it is out of hand.

Identity politics is rampant on both sides.  Just one is not white males.  When you vote for birther patient zero you kind of freak the rest of the country out.
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While this may be a legit platform, the message isn't being delivered effectively. Instead it is a "who is the most oppressed competition", and it is the party of everyone's a nazi or racist if you don't agree. The Democratic strategy ensures Trump 2020.

 
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Cowboysfan8 said:
Thanks

I believe it was implied that it would be “provided”. As in “free”.

apparently some of them are backing off that now. I’m not surprised 
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Honestly, it looked like one of those instances where a few raised their hands quickly and the others did so thinking they would get skewered if they didn't, not fully understanding the question.

 
Jayrod said:
Honestly, it looked like one of those instances where a few raised their hands quickly and the others did so thinking they would get skewered if they didn't, not fully understanding the question.
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I think Biden wasn't sure what was best for him.  

That's why raising the hand to half-mast.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Thanks

I believe it was implied that it would be “provided”. As in “free”.

apparently some of them are backing off that now. I’m not surprised 
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It wasn't implied by Buttegieg. sho nuff didn't include this part of his response:
"And remember, we’re talking about something people are getting a—given a chance to buy into. In the same way that there are undocumented immigrants in my community who pay, they pay sales taxes, they pay property taxes directly or indirectly. This is not about a handout. This is an insurance program...."

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Thanks

I believe it was implied that it would be “provided”. As in “free”.

apparently some of them are backing off that now. I’m not surprised 
Click to expand...
If a candidate would have the position that undocumented immigrants should be allowed to purchase unsubsidized health insurance on the ACA exchanges at full cost would that mean "provide" such that they would raise their hands?  That would be a change in the law and would seem to be a reasonable position to expect a conservative or moderate democrat to express.  Would they have raised their hand?  (I'm not sure, maybe one or more did.)

 
Mystery Achiever said:
It wasn't implied by Buttegieg. sho nuff didn't include this part of his response:
"And remember, we’re talking about something people are getting a—given a chance to buy into. In the same way that there are undocumented immigrants in my community who pay, they pay sales taxes, they pay property taxes directly or indirectly. This is not about a handout. This is an insurance program...."
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If the person asking the question meant “be provided an opportunity to purchase health insurance” they would have said that.

imo

 
GROOT said:
While this may be a legit platform, the message isn't being delivered effectively. Instead it is a "who is the most oppressed competition", and it is the party of everyone's a nazi or racist if you don't agree. The Democratic strategy ensures Trump 2020.
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This comment and several others in here seem to perfectly illustrate the merits of the Tim Wise comments MT linked to earlier (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1152930670093787141.html).  It seems absurd to think there are voters whose minds could be changed, or any undecided voters.  It just seems to be common sense to me. If the democrats are to win this election, they need to hammer the electorate with the message that, if you don't get out and vote, we will have 4 more years of leadership by a shameful lying racist sexual predator charlatan who is almost certainly cognitively impaired.  Focusing on policy, or confusing this message, watering it down in any respect, is a losing strategy.

 
timschochet said:
It’s not good. I disagree with @Widbil83 that’s it’s a campaign killer but it’s not good. 

It would have been so easy for some one like Biden or Harris not to raise their hand. I wouldn’t have and I’m as pro-undocumented as they come. I would have said “we need to to give them the basics for public health reasons, obviously. And we’re not going to let anyone die in the street. But full blown access to our health care system provided by the tax payer? Sorry no, that’s for citizens. Now I am for giving a lot of these people a path to citizenship, eventually, but it’s a long path.” 

So easy, but none of them had the smarts to say something like this. 
Click to expand...
To Tim's point I see this as a political mistake. 

Raising your hand makes you more of a target than not.  I doubt cnn or the other candidates would have said. "How can you vote for Biden when he wont provide healthcare to undocumented immigrants!!"   Um, no.  These guys need advisors 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
This comment and several others in here seem to perfectly illustrate the merits of the Tim Wise comments MT linked to earlier (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1152930670093787141.html).  It seems absurd to think there are voters whose minds could be changed, or any undecided voters.  It just seems to be common sense to me. If the democrats are to win this election, they need to hammer the electorate with the message that, if you don't get out and vote, we will have 4 more years of leadership by a shameful lying racist sexual predator charlatan who is almost certainly cognitively impaired.  Focusing on policy, or confusing this message, watering it down in any respect, is a losing strategy.
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The problem is Trump isn't Duke. As much as the Democrats want him to be, equating them on the same level isn't even close.

 
[scooter] said:
This is the part that stuck out for me: "What the left never understands is: we need to stop approaching elections like the god####ed debate team, and start approaching it like the right does, like the cheerleading squad...
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Both side’s base feel this exact same way.

In 2008 and 2012 the Republican base felt that McCain and Romney needed to take the gloves off and stop debating policy under the Marquess of Queensberry rules because that would be no match for Obama’s emotional cheerleading squad.

It’s so funny to me that both sides:

- think they play fair

- think the other side doesn’t play fair

- and fail to see that they’re mirror images of themselves in that regard. 

Part and parcel of the two-party system.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
If the person asking the question meant “be provided an opportunity to purchase health insurance” they would have said that. imo
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Regardless of how you interpret the question,   "a chance to buy into"  is antithetical  to offering at "no cost."

 
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Cowboysfan8 said:
You’re posting about his comments after the debate when he started backtracking 
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No. I posted to you his response to the question directly from the transcript.
Here you go:
 

Raise your hand if your government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants.

Savannah G.:                 29:17                Okay. Let me start with you, Mayor Buttigieg. Why? Mayor Buttigieg, why?

Pete Buttigieg:              29:28                Because our country is healthier when everybody is healthier. Remember, we’re talking about something people are given a chance to buy into. In the same way that there are undocumented immigrants in my community, who pay. They pay sales taxes, they pay property taxes directly or indirectly. This is not about a handout. This is an insurance program.

 
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Dems need to message:

National security.  Trump is a threat.  He tried to help Russia cheat you out of your vote.  Everyones vote.  Democrat or Republican.  We need to defend our country.

Law and order.  No one is above the law.  This is america.  Whether it is obstruction or not paying taxes.  No one is above the law.

Cheat.  Trump is a cheat.  Whether cheating on his wife, taxes or elections.  He has cheated on everyone.

Today was good for dems.  they werent talking about the squad.  Dems were controlling the conversation.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
Both side’s base feel this exact same way.

In 2008 and 2012 the Republican base felt that McCain and Romney needed to take the gloves off and stop debating policy under the Marquess of Queensberry rules because that would be no match for Obama’s emotional cheerleading squad.

It’s so funny to me that both sides:

- think they play fair

- think the other side doesn’t play fair

- and fail to see that they’re mirror images of themselves in that regard. 

Part and parcel of the two-party system.
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I try to disabuse people of these notions, too. Well not so much anymore. I just can't believe how widespread the feelings are. 

 
Mystery Achiever said:
No. I posted to you his response to the question directly from the transcript.
Here you go:
 

Raise your hand if your government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants.

Savannah G.:                 29:17                Okay. Let me start with you, Mayor Buttigieg. Why? Mayor Buttigieg, why?

Pete Buttigieg:              29:28                Because our country is healthier when everybody is healthier. Remember, we’re talking about something people are given a chance to buy into. In the same way that there are undocumented immigrants in my community, who pay. They pay sales taxes, they pay property taxes directly or indirectly. This is not about a handout. This is an insurance program.
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My mistake

Were any of the others asked to comment that night ?

 
Daywalker said:
Dems need to message:

National security.  Trump is a threat.  He tried to help Russia cheat you out of your vote.  Everyones vote.  Democrat or Republican.  We need to defend our country.

Law and order.  No one is above the law.  This is america.  Whether it is obstruction or not paying taxes.  No one is above the law.

Cheat.  Trump is a cheat.  Whether cheating on his wife, taxes or elections.  He has cheated on everyone.

Today was good for dems.  they werent talking about the squad.  Dems were controlling the conversation.
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Ummm no.

Democrats really refuse to address what Americans care about and they are going to lose another election as a result. .

It’s rather astonishing.

 
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Republicans in the Senate just refused to consider an election security bill. This seems important to the nation's,  you know, security.

 
TripItUp said:
Ummm no.

Democrats really refuse to address what Americans care about and they are going to lose another election as a result. .

It’s rather astonishing.
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Why don't you give us a list of all the Bill's the Republican lead Senate has addressed that Americans care about.  And I call BS on your statement.  The House has seen over  Bill's that their constituents care about to the Senate.  Just because you might not care about what the house has passed, doesn't mean I don't. 

 
Mile High said:
Why don't you give us a list of all the Bill's the Republican lead Senate has addressed that Americans care about.  And I call BS on your statement.  The House has seen over  Bill's that their constituents care about to the Senate.  Just because you might not care about what the house has passed, doesn't mean I don't. 
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Maybe this one will answer about that.  Two others were tried in the one thread and them McConnell....crickets.

It seems easier to parrot Trump’s lies and ignore all challenges to them or accuse people of trolling.

 
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