Succession on HBO (3 Viewers)

[JohnnyU]

Why didn't Tom tell Gregory to kiss off after being named CEO and after being slapped by him earlier, albeit he slapped first? Is there a bigger nothing than Greg? I suppose he liked Greg being his pet.

 

[phandango]

Is Nan Pierce still waiting for the kids to pay her the $10 billion?

One regular theme for these writers over the 4 seasons is they had no problem creating major plot lines out of thin air one week, then completely dropping them, unresolved, never to be heard of again. The Pierce acquisition plotline dominated an entire episode and could have been really interesting, but I believe was completely dropped as though it never happened. Same with the "Living+" episode. They seemed to create a major plot crisis out of nowhere, devoted an entire episode to the Living+ storyline with Kendall potentially committing criminal fraud, etc. just a few episodes from the end, then never referenced it again except maybe in passing.

Possible, but also possible that was a comment on the siblings' attention span. They're all in on The 100 or whatever that startup was called, but then they have a chance to buy Pierce, until their dad dies and they have a chance to gain control of Waystar Royco. And Living+ was only meant to juice the stock price in order to kill the Mattson deal. None of the underlying businesses actually mattered to the sibs. All of them -- dating all the way back to Vaulter in the series premiere -- were just means to an end

I also think the Living+ thing was a device employed by the writers to get all the characters in one place. There were a lot of those down the stretch: everyone in Sweden, everyone at the pre-election party, everyone at ATN on election night, everyone at the funeral. Obviously I've never been a writer on a high-quality drama, but I'd have to imagine that having all the major characters in one location and able to interact with each other went a long way toward ramping up the tension and conflict (as opposed to yelling at each other over the phone or over Zoom).

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Why didn't Tom tell Gregory to kiss off after being named CEO and after being slapped by him earlier, albeit he slapped first? Is there a bigger nothing than Greg? I suppose he liked Greg being his pet.

That's it exactly. The entire series, he's treated him like crap and Greg keeps coming back for more. He also probably knew him enough to know it wasn't personal. Greg was always a snake looking for his own angle

 

[dickey moe]

Why didn't Tom tell Gregory to kiss off after being named CEO and after being slapped by him earlier, albeit he slapped first? Is there a bigger nothing than Greg? I suppose he liked Greg being his pet.

That's it exactly. The entire series, he's treated him like crap and Greg keeps coming back for more. He also probably knew him enough to know it wasn't personal. Greg was always a snake looking for his own angle

A snake who's gonna get busted down to...20, 30, 40k?

 

[dickey moe]

Top 10 series of all time. Arguably Top 5.

 

[JohnnyU]

Top 10 series of all time. Arguably Top 5.

I wouldn’t go that far at all. For me personally, not close. I would never watch it again. Top series are those you can watch again and again.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I think you're underestimating the spite Shiv had for Kendall

I think you miss some of the subtlety in the situation and see it purely as black and white, so you miss the grey. It wasn't a total spite decision - if that's the case she wouldn't have agreed to Kendall as CEO to begin with. There was calculation involved. At that point she had the rug pulled out from under her by Mattson and had to decide which was the less onerous result. Obviously we won't ever really know the answer but to me, if some outsider was going to be brought in as the new CEO, she would have voted "no" (and that would have been partially to spite Mattson) - with Tom in charge she keeps the wealth and status that she's always enjoyed.

Her original agreement with Kendall as the CEO was also a spite decision. But at that time it was to spite Mattson, who she realized had just used her.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Top 10 series of all time. Arguably Top 5.

I wouldn’t go that far at all. For me personally, not close. I would never watch it again. Top series are those you can watch again and again.

Yeah, I really liked it, but it doesn't reach that Mt. Rushmore for me that The Wire and Breaking Bad do.

Then again, I don't know that I buy your criterion that top series = rewatchable. While in theory I would love to rewatch The Wire and pick up on so many things I missed the first time, in reality it feels like too much work. That show was exhausting!

 

[dkp993]

Why didn't Tom tell Gregory to kiss off after being named CEO and after being slapped by him earlier, albeit he slapped first? Is there a bigger nothing than Greg? I suppose he liked Greg being his pet.

He‘s Tom’s pain sponge. **** rolls downhill and Tom wanted someone below he knows he can **** on.

 

[JohnnyU]

Top 10 series of all time. Arguably Top 5.

I wouldn’t go that far at all. For me personally, not close. I would never watch it again. Top series are those you can watch again and again.

Yeah, I really liked it, but it doesn't reach that Mt. Rushmore for me that The Wire and Breaking Bad do.

Then again, I don't know that I buy your criterion that top series = rewatchable. While in theory I would love to rewatch The Wire and pick up on so many things I missed the first time, in reality it feels like too much work. That show was exhausting!

Yeah, the more I think about it, a show doesn’t have to be rewatched to be top 10. Having said that, Succession isn’t anywhere near top 20, let alone top 10, or top 5 for me. I found those characters hard to watch. They were cringy at best.

 

[Keerock]

Why didn't Tom tell Gregory to kiss off after being named CEO and after being slapped by him earlier, albeit he slapped first? Is there a bigger nothing than Greg? I suppose he liked Greg being his pet.

He‘s Tom’s pain sponge. **** rolls downhill and Tom wanted someone below he knows he can **** on.

Greg has a lot of dirt on Tom. Coverups, etc. Gotta keep him close.

 

[supermike80]

Yeah not sure I would put it up there in the top tier of shows. Good yes. Watchable yes.

 

[The Dude]

IMO, I think the spite on Kendall is over stated. It was a financial/power decision predominantly.

You mean, not to give Kendall power? Because the rest of the siblings sure didn't end up with any. As for financial, they are all billionaires anyway, but did stand to gain more by selling out. I think you're underestimating the spite Shiv had for Kendall, not wanting him to win.

Shiv said she didn't have faith in Ken to run the company. So logically, she is saying the value of the company is better at the current buy price rather than a diminished product under Kendall.

The spite is being overstated.

 

[JohnnyU]

IMO, I think the spite on Kendall is over stated. It was a financial/power decision predominantly.

You mean, not to give Kendall power? Because the rest of the siblings sure didn't end up with any. As for financial, they are all billionaires anyway, but did stand to gain more by selling out. I think you're underestimating the spite Shiv had for Kendall, not wanting him to win.

Shiv said she didn't have faith in Ken to run the company. So logically, she is saying the value of the company is better at the current buy price rather than a diminished product under Kendall.

The spite is being overstated.

One could interpret her message to Ken as all part of the spite to not want him to win. I can respect your take, but that's what it is, your take. She could always just sell her stock immediately while the value was still high and before Kendall does something to tank the stock, couldn't she?

 

[urbanhack]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

 

[Don Quixote]

IMO, I think the spite on Kendall is over stated. It was a financial/power decision predominantly.

You mean, not to give Kendall power? Because the rest of the siblings sure didn't end up with any. As for financial, they are all billionaires anyway, but did stand to gain more by selling out. I think you're underestimating the spite Shiv had for Kendall, not wanting him to win.

Shiv said she didn't have faith in Ken to run the company. So logically, she is saying the value of the company is better at the current buy price rather than a diminished product under Kendall.

The spite is being overstated.

One could interpret her message to Ken as all part of the spite to not want him to win. I can respect your take, but that's what it is, your take. She could always just sell her stock immediately while the value was still high and before Kendall does something to tank the stock, couldn't she?

Stock price value was pricing in the deal by that point, and premium over was being paid for getting control. If deal did not go through, it would have cratered pretty quickly, and she would have had to navigate insider trading laws.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Why didn't Tom tell Gregory to kiss off after being named CEO and after being slapped by him earlier, albeit he slapped first? Is there a bigger nothing than Greg? I suppose he liked Greg being his pet.

He‘s Tom’s pain sponge. **** rolls downhill and Tom wanted someone below he knows he can **** on.

In fact, now that he knows he's going to be Mattson's b***h, he probably needs Greg more than ever

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I think you're underestimating the spite Shiv had for Kendall

I think you miss some of the subtlety in the situation and see it purely as black and white, so you miss the grey. It wasn't a total spite decision - if that's the case she wouldn't have agreed to Kendall as CEO to begin with. There was calculation involved. At that point she had the rug pulled out from under her by Mattson and had to decide which was the less onerous result. Obviously we won't ever really know the answer but to me, if some outsider was going to be brought in as the new CEO, she would have voted "no" (and that would have been partially to spite Mattson) - with Tom in charge she keeps the wealth and status that she's always enjoyed.

Her original agreement with Kendall as the CEO was also a spite decision. But at that time it was to spite Mattson, who she realized had just used her.

I said that later on, after what you bolded.

 

[SFBayDuck]

One could interpret her message to Ken as all part of the spite to not want him to win. I can respect your take, but that's what it is, your take. She could always just sell her stock immediately while the value was still high and before Kendall does something to tank the stock, couldn't she?

Stock price value was pricing in the deal by that point, and premium over was being for getting control. If deal did not go through, it would have cratered pretty quickly, and she would have had to navigate insider trading laws with her spouse as CEO.

I think there are typically lock up periods after takeovers/mergers like these where the acquired aren't able to sell the stock they receive for a period of time, usually something like 90-180 days. Let alone the insider trading aspects that DQ mentioned that make it harder to sell. Now maybe Kendall couldn't tank GoJo's stock price that quickly, maybe he actually is just that incompetent. But, assuming Shiv was even thinking that way, it could have conceivably costed her a lot.

In any case, Matsson will likely axe everyone pretty quickly, in this universe that ended last night.

And to me Roman is the big winner. He's always been a sad, little man, and now instead of feeling he has to pretend to be more than that so Daddy will love him he can lean right into being a very, very rich sad, little man.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Yes, Tom will take Gregg along because he likes his little lapdog, and he already humiliated him, to take revenge, by busting him down from $200k to $40k. It’s not like Gregg has any marketable skills to say “**** off” and quit.

 

[JohnnyU]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

They are all clowns on that show. That's the appeal I suppose.

 

[JohnnyU]

Yes, Tom will take Gregg along because he likes his little lapdog, and he already humiliated him, to take revenge, by busting him down from $200k to $40k. It’s not like Gregg has any marketable skills to say “**** off” and quit.

No, but he does have the document dirt on him. Greg has Tom by the balls.

 

[JohnnyU]

One could interpret her message to Ken as all part of the spite to not want him to win. I can respect your take, but that's what it is, your take. She could always just sell her stock immediately while the value was still high and before Kendall does something to tank the stock, couldn't she?

Stock price value was pricing in the deal by that point, and premium over was being for getting control. If deal did not go through, it would have cratered pretty quickly, and she would have had to navigate insider trading laws with her spouse as CEO.

I think there are typically lock up periods after takeovers/mergers like these where the acquired aren't able to sell the stock they receive for a period of time, usually something like 90-180 days. Let alone the insider trading aspects that DQ mentioned that make it harder to sell. Now maybe Kendall couldn't tank GoJo's stock price that quickly, maybe he actually is just that incompetent. But, assuming Shiv was even thinking that way, it could have conceivably costed her a lot.

In any case, Matsson will likely axe everyone pretty quickly, in this universe that ended last night.

And to me Roman is the big winner. He's always been a sad, little man, and now instead of feeling he has to pretend to be more than that so Daddy will love him he can lean right into being a very, very rich sad, little man.

I love the last sentence. I told my wife that Roman was the big winner in that fiasco.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Yes, Tom will take Gregg along because he likes his little lapdog, and he already humiliated him, to take revenge, by busting him down from $200k to $40k. It’s not like Gregg has any marketable skills to say “**** off” and quit.

No, but he does have the document dirt on him. Greg has Tom by the balls.

That stuff was resolved long ago, wasn’t it.

Plus, Tom was only involved as part of the cover up and was mostly being used as the patsy. That’s why he got in Logan’s good graces in the first place. He was willing to take the jail time. He really had little actual involvement.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

One could interpret her message to Ken as all part of the spite to not want him to win. I can respect your take, but that's what it is, your take. She could always just sell her stock immediately while the value was still high and before Kendall does something to tank the stock, couldn't she?

Stock price value was pricing in the deal by that point, and premium over was being for getting control. If deal did not go through, it would have cratered pretty quickly, and she would have had to navigate insider trading laws with her spouse as CEO.

I think there are typically lock up periods after takeovers/mergers like these where the acquired aren't able to sell the stock they receive for a period of time, usually something like 90-180 days. Let alone the insider trading aspects that DQ mentioned that make it harder to sell. Now maybe Kendall couldn't tank GoJo's stock price that quickly, maybe he actually is just that incompetent. But, assuming Shiv was even thinking that way, it could have conceivably costed her a lot.

In any case, Matsson will likely axe everyone pretty quickly, in this universe that ended last night.

And to me Roman is the big winner. He's always been a sad, little man, and now instead of feeling he has to pretend to be more than that so Daddy will love him he can lean right into being a very, very rich sad, little man.

Recall that Kendall briefly considered going that route in S3 when Logan told him to "cash out and #### off!" He told Naomi they could take all their money and go live on a beach somewhere.

Logan later clarified that wasn't a serious offer, but even if it had been, I don't think Kendall was wired that way. Even Roman couldn't bring himself to accept it until his dad died and the company got sold

 

[JohnnyU]

They should have had Kendall leaping to his death, but they may want him in a spin-off.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

when it got to 6 to 6 and Shiv was the deciding vote

I rewatched that scene 3 times and only counted 5-5, despite the fact that they said 6-6 twice when Shiv left the room. Were there some absentee votes off screen or do I just suck at counting?

There are remote voters. Roman was going to leave and do so when he freaked after seeing Geri.
Kendall met with the one woman who doesn’t come in to vote during the first season.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

They should have had Kendall leaping to his death, but they may want him in a spin-off.

Too obvious. It hits harder this way.

 

[JohnnyU]

They should have had Kendall leaping to his death, but they may want him in a spin-off.

Too obvious. It hits harder this way.

Yeah you’re probably right.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

They should have had Kendall leaping to his death, but they may want him in a spin-off.

Too obvious. It hits harder this way.

Yeah you’re probably right.

After his begging and temper tantrum at Shiv and attack of Roman with the vote pending, stability isn’t in his future.

 

[Doug B]

Is Succession like the new Stranger Things** or something? There was an article today on Yahoo! titled simply "Leave it all to Greg" ... and the article writer completely assumed that Greg from Succession is some kind of household name that every American already knows intimately.

Didn't Succession just come out?

(They do this kind of stuff with Ted Lasso, too. Yeah, I know it's a big show for Apple TV. Problem is ... nobody has Apple TV, though (I know, not nobody. But still.)


** in popularity/cultural-impact, not theme

I think I messed up somewhere with my digital breadcrumbs: Yahoo's home page now show me FIVE articles about Succession

Actually ... thirteen articles as I keep scrolling down. Sheesh.

 

[JohnnyU]

They should have had Kendall leaping to his death, but they may want him in a spin-off.

Too obvious. It hits harder this way.

Yeah you’re probably right.

After his begging and temper tantrum at Shiv and attack of Roman with the vote pending, stability isn’t in his future.

That’s for sure, but it makes for good tv.

 

[dkp993]

They should have had Kendall leaping to his death, but they may want him in a spin-off.

Too obvious. It hits harder this way.

Yeah you’re probably right.

There is an interview with Jeremy Strong out there where he says the scene continues after we see him sitting on the bench where he gets up and tries to jump in the water but the bodyguard (his dads ex guard) grabs him and stops it. Jeremy says it wasn’t in the script and was improvised by him and the bodyguard (surprisingly). But ultimately Jeremy thinks Jesse made the right decision to cut it at the bench.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

They should have had Kendall leaping to his death, but they may want him in a spin-off.

Too obvious. It hits harder this way.

Yeah you’re probably right.

There is an interview with Jeremy Strong out there where he says the scene continues after we see him sitting on the bench where he gets up and tries to jump in the water but the bodyguard (his dads ex guard) grabs him abad stops it. Jeremy says it wasn’t in the script and was improvised by him and the bodyguard (surprisingly). But ultimately Jeremy thinks Jesse made the right decision to cut it at the bench.

I would've hated that ending. Ken is way too arrogant, soft and spineless to take that route.

 

[dickey moe]

Top 10 series of all time. Arguably Top 5.

I wouldn’t go that far at all. For me personally, not close. I would never watch it again. Top series are those you can watch again and again.

I am with you Johnny. Succession falls in that category of extremely entertaining and well produced, but the story lines and characters failed to resonate the same way shows like The Wire, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Justified, etc did with me. I can see how others may put it in their top 5 though because it was very well executed. It is definitely on my recommend list, just not my Mt Rushmore.

It wouldn't make it into my Top 5 but definitely Top 10. I can see folks placing it in their Top 5.

 

[Don Quixote]

I was posting about Nicholas Britell in the movie track thread, but thought I’d post something about him here too… my music listening during work today was the Succession Season 4 soundtrack and some other of Britell’s stuff today. Britell’s score for Succession is some of the best that I’ve ever heard for TV; he’s a crazy good composer. Going to miss that just as much as show’s characters and writing.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I was posting about Nicholas Britell in the movie track thread, but thought I’d post something about him here too… my music listening during work today was the Succession Season 4 soundtrack and some other of Britell’s stuff today. Britell’s score for Succession is some of the best that I’ve ever heard for TV; he’s a crazy good composer. Going to miss that just as much as show’s characters and writing.

One of the very few shows for which I never skipped the intro.

 

[Sammy3469]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

Except he isn’t a clown. One of the reasons Shiv chose him over Kendall is that he knows how to survive and he’s much more astute at knowing and then exploiting the power weakness of others for his own benefit. For instance, he immediately picked up on what Mattson was selling.

 

[Ghost Rider]

There were other factors at play, but spite definitely played a role in Shiv's actions. Go back and watch her early in the episode. She was gloating right to Ken's face that she won and he lost and that he needed to deal with it. And once the tables were turned, she acted like a baby who just had her pacifier taken away. To be clear, neither Ken nor Roman had what it took to be CEO, but to act like Shiv wasn't being a lot spiteful is ignoring the obvious.

 

[Ilov80s]

I was posting about Nicholas Britell in the movie track thread, but thought I’d post something about him here too… my music listening during work today was the Succession Season 4 soundtrack and some other of Britell’s stuff today. Britell’s score for Succession is some of the best that I’ve ever heard for TV; he’s a crazy good composer. Going to miss that just as much as show’s characters and writing.

Loved the variation on the theme he did for the end of the finale with Kendall on the bench

 

[Ilov80s]

The Succession theme song/Lebron tweet was maybe the best thing the Ringer has done

 

[Don Quixote]

I was posting about Nicholas Britell in the movie track thread, but thought I’d post something about him here too… my music listening during work today was the Succession Season 4 soundtrack and some other of Britell’s stuff today. Britell’s score for Succession is some of the best that I’ve ever heard for TV; he’s a crazy good composer. Going to miss that just as much as show’s characters and writing.

Loved the variation on the theme he did for the end of the finale with Kendall on the bench

That was definitely in my ear worm today.

Succession - Andante Risoluto

Provided to YouTube by BWSCD IncSuccession - Andante Risoluto · Nicholas BritellSuccession: Season 4℗ 2023 Home Box Office, Inc, under exclusive license to L...

youtu.be

 

[dkp993]

Justified

Just finishing up season 6 (probably 3rd or 4th time through the series) in prep for the new season coming out in June.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

Except he isn’t a clown. One of the reasons Shiv chose him over Kendall is that he knows how to survive and he’s much more astute at knowing and then exploiting the power weakness of others for his own benefit. For instance, he immediately picked up on what Mattson was selling.

You really think that Tom was even considered in Shiv's decision? I think you give way too much credit to Shiv. The entire show was about the kids trying to out do each other to claim the throne. If Shiv couldn't have it, there is no way she's giving it to one of her brothers.

 

[Ilov80s]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

Except he isn’t a clown. One of the reasons Shiv chose him over Kendall is that he knows how to survive and he’s much more astute at knowing and then exploiting the power weakness of others for his own benefit. For instance, he immediately picked up on what Mattson was selling.

You really think that Tom was even considered in Shiv's decision? I think you give way too much credit to Shiv. The entire show was about the kids trying to out do each other to claim the throne. If Shiv couldn't have it, there is no way she's giving it to one of her brothers.

I do. Not because she loves Tom or anything but just because Tom was a way to stay tapped into the company.

 

[The Dude]

Yes, Tom will take Gregg along because he likes his little lapdog, and he already humiliated him, to take revenge, by busting him down from $200k to $40k. It’s not like Gregg has any marketable skills to say “**** off” and quit.

Not sure sbout this take either. the new boss calls him Judas - more likely Tom has to dump him

 

[Chaz McNulty]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

Except he isn’t a clown. One of the reasons Shiv chose him over Kendall is that he knows how to survive and he’s much more astute at knowing and then exploiting the power weakness of others for his own benefit. For instance, he immediately picked up on what Mattson was selling.

You really think that Tom was even considered in Shiv's decision? I think you give way too much credit to Shiv. The entire show was about the kids trying to out do each other to claim the throne. If Shiv couldn't have it, there is no way she's giving it to one of her brothers.

I do. Not because she loves Tom or anything but just because Tom was a way to stay tapped into the company.

I don't think this was even a consideration. Tom had pretty much shot her down when she was talking about rekindling the marriage. I think Greg could have been named the CEO and she still would have voted against Kendal or Roman. They spent 4 seasons showing Shiv's personality. How she treated her husband. How she always thought she was way smarter than everyone else. She even convinced herself that she would be the best one for the CEO position despite having zero corporate experience.

Shiv only agreed to back Kendal out of spite for Mattson. She allowed Mattson to use her as an insider spy, and then he was going to toss her away. She wanted to get back at him. But even revenge wasn't enough to allow her to have one of her brothers beat her.

All the characters were completely flawed, and the show did a good job of showing this.

 

[need2know]

Loved it. Amazing ending

 

[Ilov80s]

There's no way Tom is a CEO longer than 1.5 or 2 years. He's a clown.

Except he isn’t a clown. One of the reasons Shiv chose him over Kendall is that he knows how to survive and he’s much more astute at knowing and then exploiting the power weakness of others for his own benefit. For instance, he immediately picked up on what Mattson was selling.

You really think that Tom was even considered in Shiv's decision? I think you give way too much credit to Shiv. The entire show was about the kids trying to out do each other to claim the throne. If Shiv couldn't have it, there is no way she's giving it to one of her brothers.

I do. Not because she loves Tom or anything but just because Tom was a way to stay tapped into the company.

I don't think this was even a consideration. Tom had pretty much shot her down when she was talking about rekindling the marriage. I think Greg could have been named the CEO and she still would have voted against Kendal or Roman. They spent 4 seasons showing Shiv's personality. How she treated her husband. How she always thought she was way smarter than everyone else. She even convinced herself that she would be the best one for the CEO position despite having zero corporate experience.

Shiv only agreed to back Kendal out of spite for Mattson. She allowed Mattson to use her as an insider spy, and then he was going to toss her away. She wanted to get back at him. But even revenge wasn't enough to allow her to have one of her brothers beat her.

All the characters were completely flawed, and the show did a good job of showing this.

Sure Tom shot her down now. It will not be so easy to shoot her down when their child is born. She is carrying the ultimate trump card.

 

[dickey moe]

The Succession theme song/Lebron tweet was maybe the best thing the Ringer has done

Someone must've sampled the theme in a rap tune by now.