The 100 Greatest movies of the 1990s 1. Goodfellas (29 Viewers)

[General Malaise]

at "cringe police".

• I didn't have To Die For on my Top 100 either
• To my knowledge that movie doesn't feature a topless underage actress and an actor accused of sexual misconduct in real life as a character lusting after a HS student in it. I specifically posted that added to my feelings on the movie.
• I haven't seen To Die For since it came out, so for all I know I could have a similar reaction. American Beauty I watched much more recently so it is fresh in my memory.
• 0 clue what Black Licorice is, so again I have no context for what you speak of
• In general, right or wrong, society frowns more on the older male/young girl power dynamic when that happens.
• My beef with the end is my interpretation of how the relationship is framed throughout the movie. Other movies that I could think of have a more negative outlook on the character and are tonally different. Again, JMO and that is the beauty of art and how people view and interpret things differently. We all bring our individual baggage to the movies.

This isn't just an American Beauty thing. I don't like some 80s movies near as much now for similar reasons.

He meant Licorice Pizza. One difference there is it’s the 15 year old who wants a relationship with the adult. The adult is friends with him but she’s not trying to have a romantic relationship. Also like most things in movies the answer is just in how it’s filmed and portrayed. Just like we can watch a movie like Final Destination where a dozen people die horrible deaths and laugh through it all and then another movie has a single character die in an accident and it’s soul crushing.

Doh! That make more sense. I've also said elsewhere that is my least favorite PTA, and i found that dynamic odd. As you said, it is not as sexually charged either.

She shows him her boobs!!!!! Willingly!

It is an odd movie but it's absolutely about an adult woman wanting a relationship with a child.

Dude, i didnt like the movie, and we are about to go down and even weirder rabbit hole debating what is more sexual in a movie - flashing boobs to a minor or masturbating while dreaming of diddling one.

I feel you and others are getting defensive as though i think you guys are weird pervs for liking a movie i don't. That was never my intention nor do i believe i implied that. It is just my opinion.

I absolutely love horror movies and watch a ton of depraved ****. It speaks nothing of who i am, so i pass 0 judgement on others on that front.

Definitely not a rabbit hole I want to dive into further but the point remains, movies continue to be made that have inappropriate relationships as a part of the movie's story. Licorice Pizza is just the most recent example of a film where an adult pursues a teen. How graphic that gets depicted in the film isn't the sticking point - it's that American Beauty is polarizing while the others I mention escape the same scrutiny. Why? Think that's a fair question.

 

[General Malaise]

ok? not really sure why you are trying to argue a non sequitur

I just want you to answer my original question.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Also American Beauty is definitely not romantic, so that is another mark against it for me.

"F@ck me, your majesty!" isn't romantic?

 

[KarmaPolice]

at "cringe police".

• I didn't have To Die For on my Top 100 either
• To my knowledge that movie doesn't feature a topless underage actress and an actor accused of sexual misconduct in real life as a character lusting after a HS student in it. I specifically posted that added to my feelings on the movie.
• I haven't seen To Die For since it came out, so for all I know I could have a similar reaction. American Beauty I watched much more recently so it is fresh in my memory.
• 0 clue what Black Licorice is, so again I have no context for what you speak of
• In general, right or wrong, society frowns more on the older male/young girl power dynamic when that happens.
• My beef with the end is my interpretation of how the relationship is framed throughout the movie. Other movies that I could think of have a more negative outlook on the character and are tonally different. Again, JMO and that is the beauty of art and how people view and interpret things differently. We all bring our individual baggage to the movies.

This isn't just an American Beauty thing. I don't like some 80s movies near as much now for similar reasons.

He meant Licorice Pizza. One difference there is it’s the 15 year old who wants a relationship with the adult. The adult is friends with him but she’s not trying to have a romantic relationship. Also like most things in movies the answer is just in how it’s filmed and portrayed. Just like we can watch a movie like Final Destination where a dozen people die horrible deaths and laugh through it all and then another movie has a single character die in an accident and it’s soul crushing.

Doh! That make more sense. I've also said elsewhere that is my least favorite PTA, and i found that dynamic odd. As you said, it is not as sexually charged either.

She shows him her boobs!!!!! Willingly!

It is an odd movie but it's absolutely about an adult woman wanting a relationship with a child.

Dude, i didnt like the movie, and we are about to go down and even weirder rabbit hole debating what is more sexual in a movie - flashing boobs to a minor or masturbating while dreaming of diddling one.

I feel you and others are getting defensive as though i think you guys are weird pervs for liking a movie i don't. That was never my intention nor do i believe i implied that. It is just my opinion.

I absolutely love horror movies and watch a ton of depraved ****. It speaks nothing of who i am, so i pass 0 judgement on others on that front.

Definitely not a rabbit hole I want to dive into further but the point remains, movies continue to be made that have inappropriate relationships as a part of the movie's story. Licorice Pizza is just the most recent example of a film where an adult pursues a teen. How graphic that gets depicted in the film isn't the sticking point - it's that American Beauty is polarizing while the others I mention escape the same scrutiny. Why? Think that's a fair question.

Its a fair question, but all your examples so far i am familiar with i find cringey and weird at best. From eyelid chick in Indy to Bender sticking his head between Claire's legs to Anerican Beauty to Licorice Pizza.

That said, my mileage with the movie depends on how much it is a central part of the story, how explicit it is, and how I feel the movie handles it. That is all personal interpretation and why you might not get consistent answers from people. Sorry, how graphic the scene is will be a sticking point for me. Also the difference in age and power dynamic. In real life, i think there is a big difference between a date and flash between a HS and college age woman vs a dad lusting after and almost nailing his daughter's friend. My reactions to movies will reflect that opinion.

Imo a big reason American Beauty gets tougher scrutiny is the Spacey factor, fair or not. For me personally the Birch thing is too much too, whether she had her parents concent or not. That is just weird. These examples are not all apple to apple comparisons.

There are other examples 70s and 80s movies where underage girls get naked and i have the same resction. There are examples of actresses being tricked into nudity for movie and i think those movies have a similar cringe factor to them and struggle watching them after knowing that fact. And people have similar reaction to movies starring other actors who are have done bad things IRL from Spacey to Affleck brothers to Cosby to Gibson.

American Beauty happens to have examples off all of the above. Not sure how many other movies have similar baggage.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Also American Beauty is definitely not romantic, so that is another mark against it for me.

"F@ck me, your majesty!" isn't romantic?

Since he did take her for some drive thru after, you are right - it is romantic.

 

[northern exposure]

Tim needs to save the thread and name movie #22.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Tim needs to save the thread and name movie #22.

Watch, it will be Kids.

 

[Navin Johnson]

at "cringe police".

• I didn't have To Die For on my Top 100 either
• To my knowledge that movie doesn't feature a topless underage actress and an actor accused of sexual misconduct in real life as a character lusting after a HS student in it. I specifically posted that added to my feelings on the movie.
• I haven't seen To Die For since it came out, so for all I know I could have a similar reaction. American Beauty I watched much more recently so it is fresh in my memory.
• 0 clue what Black Licorice is, so again I have no context for what you speak of
• In general, right or wrong, society frowns more on the older male/young girl power dynamic when that happens.
• My beef with the end is my interpretation of how the relationship is framed throughout the movie. Other movies that I could think of have a more negative outlook on the character and are tonally different. Again, JMO and that is the beauty of art and how people view and interpret things differently. We all bring our individual baggage to the movies.

This isn't just an American Beauty thing. I don't like some 80s movies near as much now for similar reasons.

He meant Licorice Pizza. One difference there is it’s the 15 year old who wants a relationship with the adult. The adult is friends with him but she’s not trying to have a romantic relationship. Also like most things in movies the answer is just in how it’s filmed and portrayed. Just like we can watch a movie like Final Destination where a dozen people die horrible deaths and laugh through it all and then another movie has a single character die in an accident and it’s soul crushing.

Much different movie with edibles. Highly recommend

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I just watched something called Black Licorice. It's awful,

I think I made it about a half hour in and cut my losses.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Remember Indiana Jones and the girl student who had it out for Harrison Ford?

And what happened there? Nothing.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Remember Indiana Jones and the girl student who had it out for Harrison Ford?

And what happened there? Nothing.

that we know of

 

[Ilov80s]

Definitely not a rabbit hole I want to dive into further but the point remains, movies continue to be made that have inappropriate relationships as a part of the movie's story. Licorice Pizza is just the most recent example of a film where an adult pursues a teen. How graphic that gets depicted in the film isn't the sticking point - it's that American Beauty is polarizing while the others I mention escape the same scrutiny. Why? Think that's a fair question.

I guess I kind of forgot about the flashing and I think they do kiss at the end although how much time has passed and how old he is by then is vague. It’s certainly an inappropriate relationship. As for the scrutiny part, Licorice Pizza didn’t escape it. If you look at audience reviews, especially from younger viewers, it took a ton of crap. The discourse on Twitter when it came out was very much centered on how creepy that age difference was. The thing that saved it from an even larger national conversation is probably that not many people actually saw it. It also probably helped it was a period piece from a time when that relationship wouldn’t have been viewed the same way.

And I still stand by movies/tv/books have a magic power in that’s it all how something is presented. Breaking Bad is shot from Walter’s perspective so we root for him even though he’s a horrible person. It could have been shot from the law’s POV and we would be wanting to see Walter arrested/killed all series or shot from the Mexican gangs POV and White is like the devil we want to see get taken down. One movie 50 people get shot and we don’t even think about it, in another movie every death takes an emotional toll. It’s all a bit of a trick of story telling. But my issues with American Beauty aren’t with what happens in the story so much as how it felt to me at the time like he was painted as a hero for middle aged white men to emulate. Not just the daughter’s best friend thing but his entire story arc. But I say that with reservation because I was like 18-20 when it came out and probably haven’t seen it since.

That all said I still had American Beauty in my top 100 when I did this ranking with KP a couple years ago

 

[KarmaPolice]

at "cringe police".

• I didn't have To Die For on my Top 100 either
• To my knowledge that movie doesn't feature a topless underage actress and an actor accused of sexual misconduct in real life as a character lusting after a HS student in it. I specifically posted that added to my feelings on the movie.
• I haven't seen To Die For since it came out, so for all I know I could have a similar reaction. American Beauty I watched much more recently so it is fresh in my memory.
• 0 clue what Black Licorice is, so again I have no context for what you speak of
• In general, right or wrong, society frowns more on the older male/young girl power dynamic when that happens.
• My beef with the end is my interpretation of how the relationship is framed throughout the movie. Other movies that I could think of have a more negative outlook on the character and are tonally different. Again, JMO and that is the beauty of art and how people view and interpret things differently. We all bring our individual baggage to the movies.

This isn't just an American Beauty thing. I don't like some 80s movies near as much now for similar reasons.

He meant Licorice Pizza. One difference there is it’s the 15 year old who wants a relationship with the adult. The adult is friends with him but she’s not trying to have a romantic relationship. Also like most things in movies the answer is just in how it’s filmed and portrayed. Just like we can watch a movie like Final Destination where a dozen people die horrible deaths and laugh through it all and then another movie has a single character die in an accident and it’s soul crushing.

Much different movie with edibles. Highly recommend

This goes without saying. The Lost Boys becomes the greatest movie I've ever seen.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Definitely not a rabbit hole I want to dive into further but the point remains, movies continue to be made that have inappropriate relationships as a part of the movie's story. Licorice Pizza is just the most recent example of a film where an adult pursues a teen. How graphic that gets depicted in the film isn't the sticking point - it's that American Beauty is polarizing while the others I mention escape the same scrutiny. Why? Think that's a fair question.

I guess I kind of forgot about the flashing and I think they do kiss at the end although how much time has passed and how old he is by then is vague. It’s certainly an inappropriate relationship. As for the scrutiny part, Licorice Pizza didn’t escape it. If you look at audience reviews, especially from younger viewers, it took a ton of crap. The discourse on Twitter when it came out was very much centered on how creepy that age difference was. The thing that saved it from an even larger national conversation is probably that not many people actually saw it. It also probably helped it was a period piece from a time when that relationship wouldn’t have been viewed the same way.

And I still stand by movies/tv/books have a magic power in that’s it all how something is presented. Breaking Bad is shot from Walter’s perspective so we root for him even though he’s a horrible person. It could she’s easily been shot from the law’s POV and we would be wanting to see Walter killed all series or shot from the Mexican gangs POV and White is like the devil we want to see get taken down. One movie 50 people get shot and we don’t even think about it, another movie is every death takes an emotional toll. It’s all a bit of a trick of story telling. But my issues with American Beauty aren’t with what happens in the story so much as how it felt to me at the time like he was painted as a hero for middle aged white men to emulate. Not just the daughter’s best friend thing but his entire story arc. But I say that with reservation because I was like 18-20 when it came out and probably haven’t seen it since.

That all said I still had American Beauty in my top 100 when I did this ranking with KP a couple years ago

The bolded is a very good point I didn't think of last night. More of a period piece, people didn't see it, it didn't win the Academy Award, etc.

I was laughing a bit last night. Our power went out last night so I didn't get to Dunkirk, so instead I was listening to a movie podcast I recently stumbled on. The movie of the day was Big, and they were having fun going off a bit on a middle age woman banging a 12 year old.

 

[Ilov80s]

Definitely not a rabbit hole I want to dive into further but the point remains, movies continue to be made that have inappropriate relationships as a part of the movie's story. Licorice Pizza is just the most recent example of a film where an adult pursues a teen. How graphic that gets depicted in the film isn't the sticking point - it's that American Beauty is polarizing while the others I mention escape the same scrutiny. Why? Think that's a fair question.

I guess I kind of forgot about the flashing and I think they do kiss at the end although how much time has passed and how old he is by then is vague. It’s certainly an inappropriate relationship. As for the scrutiny part, Licorice Pizza didn’t escape it. If you look at audience reviews, especially from younger viewers, it took a ton of crap. The discourse on Twitter when it came out was very much centered on how creepy that age difference was. The thing that saved it from an even larger national conversation is probably that not many people actually saw it. It also probably helped it was a period piece from a time when that relationship wouldn’t have been viewed the same way.

And I still stand by movies/tv/books have a magic power in that’s it all how something is presented. Breaking Bad is shot from Walter’s perspective so we root for him even though he’s a horrible person. It could she’s easily been shot from the law’s POV and we would be wanting to see Walter killed all series or shot from the Mexican gangs POV and White is like the devil we want to see get taken down. One movie 50 people get shot and we don’t even think about it, another movie is every death takes an emotional toll. It’s all a bit of a trick of story telling. But my issues with American Beauty aren’t with what happens in the story so much as how it felt to me at the time like he was painted as a hero for middle aged white men to emulate. Not just the daughter’s best friend thing but his entire story arc. But I say that with reservation because I was like 18-20 when it came out and probably haven’t seen it since.

That all said I still had American Beauty in my top 100 when I did this ranking with KP a couple years ago

The bolded is a very good point I didn't think of last night. More of a period piece, people didn't see it, it didn't win the Academy Award, etc.

I was laughing a bit last night. Our power went out last night so I didn't get to Dunkirk, so instead I was listening to a movie podcast I recently stumbled on. The movie of the day was Big, and they were having fun going off a bit on a middle age woman banging a 12 year old.

Yeah I mentioned it recently in the movie thread I think but when is I started teaching 18 years ago, the old timers would tell me stories from the 70s where young teachers would openly date students. It wasn’t considered wrong if a 25 year old teacher and a HS senior were openly dating, wearing their varsity jacket, driving to school together. It is incomprehensible to me but I guess that was life in the 70s. They also talked about the principal who chain smoked in his office with the door closed and all the staff (and some of the kids) knew if you needed a little pick you up, the shop teacher had a full bar in his desk.

 

[FarFromHome]

Sorry in advance because it's off topic..

Google Chrome you could refresh page by swiping down. Now you can't? Horrible. Horrible.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Imo a big reason American Beauty gets tougher scrutiny is the Spacey factor, fair or not. For me personally the Birch thing is too much too, whether she had her parents concent or not. That is just weird. These examples are not all apple to apple comparisons.

Having thought about this a bit, I think you're right. There's really no getting around it. It's over thing when Lester fantasizes and then doesn't follow through and Kevin seemingly actually doing it.

And the underage thing, you're definitely right about. Nudity in general in the movies is kind of an issue because it's so often gratuitous. The audience can understand the character is naked without being shown it - especially when the actress is under underage.

So yeah, I can understand why you have problems with the movie. I think they're similar reasons to why I haven't watched it in about a decade.

 

[timschochet]

22. Searching For Bobby Fischer (1993)

Directed by: Steven Zaillian

Starring: Max Pomeranc, Joe Mantegna, Ben Kingsley, Lawrence Fishburne, Joan Allen

Synopsis: A seven year old boy becomes a chess prodigy

He’s better at this than anything I’ve ever been in my life. - Joe Mantegna as Fred Waitzken

If one considers chess a “sport” (different argument and I’m good either way) then this is one of the great sports dramas IMO. That’s because it’s really about the question of how parents (and society) should handle things when your kid is really really great as something. How far do you take competition? Actually there is a bit of hypocrisy here: the whole film we are told that what’s most important is that Josh stay a decent kid and have fun and not become only about winning, and surely these are the right answers. And at the same time we really want and need him to destroy his opponent in the climax, which he does. (He also engages in smack talk.) And yeah I know he offers a draw, but both he and we knew the other kid would never accept it.

Anyhow, excellent, satisfying drama with great acting and characters.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

meh

 

[timschochet]

ok? not really sure why you are trying to argue a non sequitur

I just want you to answer my original question.

To Die For is a crime drama and the only reason Nicole Kidman has sex with the kid is to get him to murder her husband.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

ok? not really sure why you are trying to argue a non sequitur

I just want you to answer my original question.

To Die For is a crime drama and the only reason Nicole Kidman has sex with the kid is to get him to murder her husband.

Well that makes it practically wholesome then.

 

[Zow]

22. Searching For Bobby Fischer (1993)

Directed by: Steven Zaillian

Starring: Max Pomeranc, Joe Mantegna, Ben Kingsley, Lawrence Fishburne, Joan Allen

Synopsis: A seven year old boy becomes a chess prodigy

He’s better at this than anything I’ve ever been in my life. - Joe Mantegna as Fred Waitzken

If one considers chess a “sport” (different argument and I’m good either way) then this is one of the great sports dramas IMO. That’s because it’s really about the question of how parents (and society) should handle things when your kid is really really great as something. How far do you take competition? Actually there is a bit of hypocrisy here: the whole film we are told that what’s most important is that Josh stay a decent kid and have fun and not become only about winning, and surely these are the right answers. And at the same time we really want and need him to destroy his opponent in the climax, which he does. (He also engages in smack talk.) And yeah I know he offers a draw, but both he and we knew the other kid would never accept it.

Anyhow, excellent, satisfying drama with great acting and characters.

Little Woz loves this movie. I've really come to enjoy it the last two years as I've dove into chess and have a son about that age (though he is, despite his efforts, no prodigy).

ETA: I also really appreciate the dichotomy of Josh's very structured and rigid chess lessons with him going to play "for fun" in the park. I assume the lessons are focus on positional theory with the park games more focused on tactics. But it's a nice expose of the challenge of teaching a young kid - who is still obviously a kid in many ways - the strict fundamentals while keeping him engaged. I have taken this lesson into my own life as Little Woz has gotten interested in both golf and chess and I'm trying to be more of the Fishburn type of coach where I focus on fun first (which is tough for me, because unlike Little Woz I liked the fundamentals and strict sports lessons as a kid but he doesn't have the same patience).

 

[Andy Dufresne]

ok? not really sure why you are trying to argue a non sequitur

I just want you to answer my original question.

To Die For is a crime drama and the only reason Nicole Kidman has sex with the kid is to get him to murder her husband.

Tale as old as time...

(Joke works best when sung in an Angela Lansbury voice)

 

[beer 30]

that falls flatter than Sharon Stone's acting.

Thought you were going to go in a different direction there for a minute.

 

[shuke]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating. I don't think it glorified what the character was doing.

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

 

[massraider]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating

You misspelled painful.

Some people could suck the fun out of a hummer. Lordy.

Movies should occasionally be about bad things, and ambiguous characters, and uncomfortable subjects. Why bother with Hollywood if you need to agree with every action, and be sure that every bad person loses in the end, and the message from Hollywood is clear, this thing is very very bad!!

That's how you wind up with Hallmark Channel

 

[KarmaPolice]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating

You misspelled painful.

Some people could suck the fun out of a hummer. Lordy.

Movies should occasionally be about bad things, and ambiguous characters, and uncomfortable subjects. Why bother with Hollywood if you need to agree with every action, and be sure that every bad person loses in the end, and the message from Hollywood is clear, this thing is very very bad!!

That's how you wind up with Hallmark Channel

GTFO with this. Obviously you didn't read the discussion.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Who would have thought that a tim movie list thread would have as much tension and petty bickering as the PSF.

 

[STBootleg]

22. Searching For Bobby Fischer (1993)


He’s better at this than anything I’ve ever been in my life. - Joe Mantegna as Fred Waitzken

I've always loved this line from the movie.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Who would have thought that a tim movie list thread would have as much tension and petty bickering as the PSF.

 

[zamboni]

22. Searching For Bobby Fischer (1993)

Because her fame was just around the same time as this, I always thought of her whenever the movie came up.

 

[Ilov80s]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating. I don't think it glorified what the character was doing.

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

I love Bad Lieutenant but I think he’s presented as a dirtbag whose entire life is falling apart because he’s awful. American Beauty gets more of a he’s the hero of the story breaking away from the cage society puts us in framing. But again been too long since I’ve seen it that was just my interpretation at the time.

 

[RCon]

How come a movie like To Die For, where Nicole Kidman ****s a high school kid, is met with indifference but American Beauty brings out the cringe police?

Doesn't this have a lot to do with the fact that Kevin Spacey did this in real life and Nicole Kidman didn't?

 

[shuke]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating. I don't think it glorified what the character was doing.

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

I love Bad Lieutenant but I think he’s presented as a dirtbag whose entire life is falling apart because he’s awful. American Beauty gets more of a he’s the hero of the story breaking away from the cage society puts us in framing. But again been too long since I’ve seen it that was just my interpretation at the time.

It's all about interpretation. Often characters are misinterpreted, as has been discussed ad nauseum in here about Fight Club. That doesn't, and shouldn't, lessen my appreciation of the movie.

 

[zamboni]

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

Haven't seen that one in a long time. Powerhouse performance by Harvey Keitel. Don't remember much though other than him crying in agony in church.

 

[Ilov80s]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating. I don't think it glorified what the character was doing.

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

I love Bad Lieutenant but I think he’s presented as a dirtbag whose entire life is falling apart because he’s awful. American Beauty gets more of a he’s the hero of the story breaking away from the cage society puts us in framing. But again been too long since I’ve seen it that was just my interpretation at the time.

It's all about interpretation. Often characters are misinterpreted, as has been discussed ad nauseum in here about Fight Club. That doesn't, and shouldn't, lessen my appreciation of the movie.

Oh yeah and I’m someone who harps on the misinterpretation of Fight Club. I am going to make AB a priority rewatch because my memory and recent reading about is basically sex with a 16 year old woke Lester up out of sleepy stifled suburban life and let him revolt against conformity and the mundane.

 

[Ilov80s]

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

Haven't seen that one in a long time. Powerhouse performance by Harvey Keitel. Don't remember much though other than him crying in agony in church.

Great movie. Absolutely worth revisiting.

 

[General Malaise]

that falls flatter than Sharon Stone's acting.

Thought you were going to go in a different direction there for a minute.

I was. I had more restraint early in the day before the edibles kicked in.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating. I don't think it glorified what the character was doing.

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

I love Bad Lieutenant but I think he’s presented as a dirtbag whose entire life is falling apart because he’s awful. American Beauty gets more of a he’s the hero of the story breaking away from the cage society puts us in framing. But again been too long since I’ve seen it that was just my interpretation at the time.

It's all about interpretation. Often characters are misinterpreted, as has been discussed ad nauseum in here about Fight Club. That doesn't, and shouldn't, lessen my appreciation of the movie.

Oh yeah and I’m someone who harps on the misinterpretation of Fight Club. I am going to make AB a priority rewatch because my memory and recent reading about is basically sex with a 16 year old woke Lester up out of sleepy stifled suburban life and let him revolt against conformity and the mundane.

I think that is about as wrong as a summation could possibly be.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

ok? not really sure why you are trying to argue a non sequitur

I just want you to answer my original question.

To Die For is a crime drama and the only reason Nicole Kidman has sex with the kid is to get him to murder her husband.

It's also based on something that actually happened in real life.

 

[Ilov80s]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating. I don't think it glorified what the character was doing.

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

I love Bad Lieutenant but I think he’s presented as a dirtbag whose entire life is falling apart because he’s awful. American Beauty gets more of a he’s the hero of the story breaking away from the cage society puts us in framing. But again been too long since I’ve seen it that was just my interpretation at the time.

It's all about interpretation. Often characters are misinterpreted, as has been discussed ad nauseum in here about Fight Club. That doesn't, and shouldn't, lessen my appreciation of the movie.

Oh yeah and I’m someone who harps on the misinterpretation of Fight Club. I am going to make AB a priority rewatch because my memory and recent reading about is basically sex with a 16 year old woke Lester up out of sleepy stifled suburban life and let him revolt against conformity and the mundane.

I think that is about as wrong as a summation could possibly be.

Yeah I definitely need to watch it again. What’s the first thing that sparks his change?

 

[General Malaise]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating. I don't think it glorified what the character was doing.

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

I love Bad Lieutenant but I think he’s presented as a dirtbag whose entire life is falling apart because he’s awful. American Beauty gets more of a he’s the hero of the story breaking away from the cage society puts us in framing. But again been too long since I’ve seen it that was just my interpretation at the time.

It's all about interpretation. Often characters are misinterpreted, as has been discussed ad nauseum in here about Fight Club. That doesn't, and shouldn't, lessen my appreciation of the movie.

Oh yeah and I’m someone who harps on the misinterpretation of Fight Club. I am going to make AB a priority rewatch because my memory and recent reading about is basically sex with a 16 year old woke Lester up out of sleepy stifled suburban life and let him revolt against conformity and the mundane.

I think that is about as wrong as a summation could possibly be.

Yeah I definitely need to watch it again. What’s the first thing that sparks his change?

As I recall, he is sick of his job and is able to negotiate a choice severance package upon quitting. Just an ordinary guy with nothing to lose.

 

[El Floppo]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating. I don't think it glorified what the character was doing.

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

I love Bad Lieutenant but I think he’s presented as a dirtbag whose entire life is falling apart because he’s awful. American Beauty gets more of a he’s the hero of the story breaking away from the cage society puts us in framing. But again been too long since I’ve seen it that was just my interpretation at the time.

It's all about interpretation. Often characters are misinterpreted, as has been discussed ad nauseum in here about Fight Club. That doesn't, and shouldn't, lessen my appreciation of the movie.

Oh yeah and I’m someone who harps on the misinterpretation of Fight Club. I am going to make AB a priority rewatch because my memory and recent reading about is basically sex with a 16 year old woke Lester up out of sleepy stifled suburban life and let him revolt against conformity and the mundane.

I think that is about as wrong as a summation could possibly be.

Yeah I definitely need to watch it again. What’s the first thing that sparks his change?

I don't remember exactly either, other than typical midlifey stuff... But 16yo is the culmination, not the catalyst.

 

[Ilov80s]

I think I still own the DVD somewhere in my basement lol might have to break that out

 

[Andy Dufresne]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating. I don't think it glorified what the character was doing.

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

I love Bad Lieutenant but I think he’s presented as a dirtbag whose entire life is falling apart because he’s awful. American Beauty gets more of a he’s the hero of the story breaking away from the cage society puts us in framing. But again been too long since I’ve seen it that was just my interpretation at the time.

It's all about interpretation. Often characters are misinterpreted, as has been discussed ad nauseum in here about Fight Club. That doesn't, and shouldn't, lessen my appreciation of the movie.

Oh yeah and I’m someone who harps on the misinterpretation of Fight Club. I am going to make AB a priority rewatch because my memory and recent reading about is basically sex with a 16 year old woke Lester up out of sleepy stifled suburban life and let him revolt against conformity and the mundane.

I think that is about as wrong as a summation could possibly be.

Yeah I definitely need to watch it again. What’s the first thing that sparks his change?

As I recall, he is sick of his job and is able to negotiate a choice severance package upon quitting. Just an ordinary guy with nothing to lose.

I'd say that's close but the fire is lit a little before that in Brad's office when he's informed that layoffs are coming:

BRAD: I'm sure you can understand our need to cut corners around here.

Lester sits across from him, looking small and isolated.

LESTER: Oh, sure. Times are tight, and you gotta free up cash. Gotta spend money to make money. Right?

BRAD: Exactly. So...

Brad stands, ready to usher Lester out.

LESTER (blurts): Like the time when Mr. Flournoy used the company MasterCard to pay for that hooker, and then she used the card numbers and stayed at the St. Regis for, what was it, like, three months?

BRAD (startled): That's unsubstantiated gossip.

LESTER: That's fifty thousand dollars. That's somebody's salary. That's somebody who's gonna get fired because Craig has to pay women to **** him!

And Lester and Angela never have sex. In fact, I think the genius part of the movie is that they build up an enormous amount of sexual tension between the two and then resolve it by NOT consummating it. In fact, it's the scene afterwards where the two are having a normal conversation, within their "proper" roles that is exceptionally sweet.

There are scenes of Lester masturbating (in the shower and in bed) and there are scenes of him fantasizing about Angela. But there isn't a scene IIRC of him pleasuring himself while thinking about her. I think the film goes to lengths to point out while he's thinking of her that - to put it bluntly - his hands are visible.

 

[zamboni]

ok? not really sure why you are trying to argue a non sequitur

I just want you to answer my original question.

To Die For is a crime drama and the only reason Nicole Kidman has sex with the kid is to get him to murder her husband.

It's also based on something that actually happened in real life.

Yes, was mentioned either here or in another thread. The Pamela Smart story in New Hampshire.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

because my memory and recent reading about is basically sex with a 16 year old woke Lester up out of sleepy stifled suburban life

Maybe I am not remembering correctly, but I thought he did not have sex with her - he chickened out when he saw how young she was when he saw her naked.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This American Beauty discussion has been fascinating. I don't think it glorified what the character was doing.

I love a 90's movie that should be on this but probably won't be so I'll go ahead and spotlight. Bad Lieutenant. He does some deplorable stuff. That doesn't mean I condone the character's actions because I like the movie.

I love Bad Lieutenant but I think he’s presented as a dirtbag whose entire life is falling apart because he’s awful. American Beauty gets more of a he’s the hero of the story breaking away from the cage society puts us in framing. But again been too long since I’ve seen it that was just my interpretation at the time.

It's all about interpretation. Often characters are misinterpreted, as has been discussed ad nauseum in here about Fight Club. That doesn't, and shouldn't, lessen my appreciation of the movie.

Oh yeah and I’m someone who harps on the misinterpretation of Fight Club. I am going to make AB a priority rewatch because my memory and recent reading about is basically sex with a 16 year old woke Lester up out of sleepy stifled suburban life and let him revolt against conformity and the mundane.

I think that is about as wrong as a summation could possibly be.

Yeah I definitely need to watch it again. What’s the first thing that sparks his change?

He quits his job.

 

[El Floppo]

because my memory and recent reading about is basically sex with a 16 year old woke Lester up out of sleepy stifled suburban life

Maybe I am not remembering correctly, but I thought he did not have sex with her - he chickened out when he saw how young she was when he saw her naked.

Despite all her previous and heavily overt flirting, doesn't she say it would be her first time just as they're about to? I remember that putting the kabosh on things... But I could definitely be wrong. Haven't seen it since the theater.

 

[Ilov80s]

because my memory and recent reading about is basically sex with a 16 year old woke Lester up out of sleepy stifled suburban life

Maybe I am not remembering correctly, but I thought he did not have sex with her - he chickened out when he saw how young she was when he saw her naked.

I meant the idea or fantasy of but yeah as pointed out he doesn’t because when he’s about to he finds out she was lying about being experienced and is actually a virgin. This makes him think of her as a child again and of his own family who I guess at the end he realizes he loves even though we haven’t seen him do much of anything loving or kind to them (does he do a single kind thing for his wife or daughter all movie, can’t recall). I remember he sort of thinks fondly of his family as he’s dying but literally right before that he go into a huge relationship nuking fight with his kid over the fact he wants to sleep with and runaway with her best friend. Again I am doing this off of vapors of the movie but I think that’s most right.