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US Men's National Team (7 Viewers)

Much of the post game comments have related to how slow the US played today. This was an interesting stat to back that up

==================


Paul Carr

@PaulCarr

The #USMNT moved the ball toward Japan's goal at an average speed of 0.62 meters/second. That's the second-slowest rate in any of the team's 55 games under Berhalter.
 
I'll probably get flamed for saying this because being critical of GGG is frowned upon in this thread, but GGG has no excuses for this performance.

The quicker he is gone, the better off we'll be. And spare me the injury excuses.
 
I totally agree that GGG is inflexible and needs to adjust but with the performances he got today it didn’t matter what formation or tactics he used. Everybody but Turner was ****.

And sweet lord play anybody but Long - he’s horrible.
 
AAABatteries said:
I totally agree that GGG is inflexible and needs to adjust but with the performances he got today it didn’t matter what formation or tactics he used. Everybody but Turner was ****.

And sweet lord play anybody but Long - he’s horrible.
Click to expand...

Just a coincidence that they all performed poorly?

Berhalter lacks leadership, doesn't inspire and will be outclassed most of the way in the WC. It is what it is.
 
TripItUp said:
I'll probably get flamed for saying this because being critical of GGG is frowned upon in this thread, but GGG has no excuses for this performance.

The quicker he is gone, the better off we'll be. And spare me the injury excuses.
Click to expand...

I get people don’t like GGG but how you can watch that and not blame the players the most is beyond me. Horrible giveaways all over the pitch, Jesus with a horrible miss. They were so bad it makes me think they were all out drinking all night or something.
 
TripItUp said:
AAABatteries said:
I totally agree that GGG is inflexible and needs to adjust but with the performances he got today it didn’t matter what formation or tactics he used. Everybody but Turner was ****.

And sweet lord play anybody but Long - he’s horrible.
Click to expand...

Just a coincidence that they all performed poorly?

Berhalter lacks leadership, doesn't inspire and will be outclassed most of the way in the WC. It is what it is.
Click to expand...

Well, your point would be valid if he didn’t have the best results of any US coach ever. You can’t have it both ways - either he gets credit then and blame now or we acknowledge that some of our players are not WC caliber. He gets plenty of blame from me for today but plenty of credit for what he’s done the last 2 years
 
I’ll say this and it will sound like an excuse but I see it as reality. We have a lot of players that saw this as a friendly and just didn’t really give a crap. I don’t think you should have that mentality and you can’t just turn it on but I think Weston, Gio, Adams, Dest are not playing this match with fire in the belly.

And the left side of our defense with Long and Vines is just bad - we really need Richards and Jedi to be ready.
 
AAABatteries said:
I totally agree that GGG is inflexible and needs to adjust but with the performances he got today it didn’t matter what formation or tactics he used. Everybody but Turner was ****.

And sweet lord play anybody but Long - he’s horrible.
Click to expand...
The tactics most certainly do matter…Japan (and everyone worth their salt) knows we are either going to play a 4-3-3 with a single pivot or a 4-3-3 double pivot.

Additionally the resulting attack from either formation is static and predictable which allows for easy pressing if you have the guys to do it.

This has been brewing for awhile, but we just got lucky with how bad CONCACAF was this cycle (and I sort of doubt SA will be able to exploit it in the next game). Good tactically aware teams will eat our lunch.
 
Sammy3469 said:
AAABatteries said:
I totally agree that GGG is inflexible and needs to adjust but with the performances he got today it didn’t matter what formation or tactics he used. Everybody but Turner was ****.

And sweet lord play anybody but Long - he’s horrible.
Click to expand...
The tactics most certainly do matter…Japan (and everyone worth their salt) knows we are either going to play a 4-3-3 with a single pivot or a 4-3-3 double pivot.

Additionally the resulting attack from either formation is static and predictable which allows for easy pressing if you have the guys to do it.

This has been brewing for awhile, but we just got lucky with how bad CONCACAF was this cycle (and I sort of doubt SA will be able to exploit it in the next game). Good tactically aware teams will eat our lunch.
Click to expand...

I didn’t say they don’t matter, I said they didn’t matter with how they played. I agree that GGG seems outclassed in that regard and I think you are right that we have somewhat gotten by with talent and playing weaker teams but you can’t watch today and not put a lot of blame on the coach AND the players. They just didn’t show up.
 
AAABatteries said:
We have a lot of players that saw this as a friendly and just didn’t really give a crap. I don’t think you should have that mentality and you can’t just turn it on but I think Weston, Gio, Adams, Dest are not playing this match with fire in the belly.
Click to expand...
I saw something in social media before the game about a bunch of joking answers in the press conference from the likes of Weston and Adams, which was painted as the team having good camaraderie, which by all accounts is true. I'm not saying that you can't make jokes and still be totally serious once the ball is in play, but with what ended up happening it does make you wonder where some of the player's heads were at.
 
This game was awful, but it also helped me realize that we were missing our 3 most important players to this team.

Pulisic is easily the best player on this team still. All attempts to pretend otherwise just need to watch this game. We'd absolutely have had a couple more chances with him out there, even if he had to create them himself.

Musah is quite possibly the most IMPORTANT player on the team. Sure he's not as talented as CP, but his ability to break a press with his dribbling would've done a ton to force Japan to back off.

Jedi is so far above the other LB options that he's easily one of our 3 most important players. His abilities out left would've helped immensely today.

Also, today is EXACTLY why we need Ream on the team if Miles Rob is gonna miss the world cup. We needed a CB that could ping accurate passes around today and we didn't have that. Ream could be that for this team.
 
encaitar said:
This game was awful, but it also helped me realize that we were missing our 3 most important players to this team.

Pulisic is easily the best player on this team still. All attempts to pretend otherwise just need to watch this game. We'd absolutely have had a couple more chances with him out there, even if he had to create them himself.

Musah is quite possibly the most IMPORTANT player on the team. Sure he's not as talented as CP, but his ability to break a press with his dribbling would've done a ton to force Japan to back off.

Jedi is so far above the other LB options that he's easily one of our 3 most important players. His abilities out left would've helped immensely today.

Also, today is EXACTLY why we need Ream on the team if Miles Rob is gonna miss the world cup. We needed a CB that could ping accurate passes around today and we didn't have that. Ream could be that for this team.
Click to expand...
One game will not change my mind, no matter how bad a game it was. I am still on the side of Weston is the US' best player and Adams as the most important.

BUT it would be an interesting discussion on these points and I could be persuaded:
1) Cp vs Weston for "Best" player
2) Musah vs Adams for most important
 
I’m projecting a little and giving him credit he may not deserve but I think Gio is our best player.

I do think the strength of Gio, CP and Weston is creativity and passing and GGG doesn’t foster that.
 
B Maverick said:
encaitar said:
This game was awful, but it also helped me realize that we were missing our 3 most important players to this team.

Pulisic is easily the best player on this team still. All attempts to pretend otherwise just need to watch this game. We'd absolutely have had a couple more chances with him out there, even if he had to create them himself.

Musah is quite possibly the most IMPORTANT player on the team. Sure he's not as talented as CP, but his ability to break a press with his dribbling would've done a ton to force Japan to back off.

Jedi is so far above the other LB options that he's easily one of our 3 most important players. His abilities out left would've helped immensely today.

Also, today is EXACTLY why we need Ream on the team if Miles Rob is gonna miss the world cup. We needed a CB that could ping accurate passes around today and we didn't have that. Ream could be that for this team.
Click to expand...
One game will not change my mind, no matter how bad a game it was. I am still on the side of Weston is the US' best player and Adams as the most important.

BUT it would be an interesting discussion on these points and I could be persuaded:
1) Cp vs Weston for "Best" player
2) Musah vs Adams for most important
Click to expand...
It likely comes down to the opponent we're playing. In a game against a high press/ high intensity team like Japan, then quick counterattacks and dribbling/accurate short passing are the most important aspects.

If McKennie was 100%, then he likely would've looked much better. It seems like he's still not back where he was before the injury though.

Obviously Adams had a bad game and his defensive ability is tough to frown at, but if he passes that poorly in the WC.... we're doomed IMO. Meanwhile Musah's ability on the dribble is insane, which is why he's so good at beating the press. I think we need both of them in the game to be at our best.
 
encaitar said:
B Maverick said:
encaitar said:
This game was awful, but it also helped me realize that we were missing our 3 most important players to this team.

Pulisic is easily the best player on this team still. All attempts to pretend otherwise just need to watch this game. We'd absolutely have had a couple more chances with him out there, even if he had to create them himself.

Musah is quite possibly the most IMPORTANT player on the team. Sure he's not as talented as CP, but his ability to break a press with his dribbling would've done a ton to force Japan to back off.

Jedi is so far above the other LB options that he's easily one of our 3 most important players. His abilities out left would've helped immensely today.

Also, today is EXACTLY why we need Ream on the team if Miles Rob is gonna miss the world cup. We needed a CB that could ping accurate passes around today and we didn't have that. Ream could be that for this team.
Click to expand...
One game will not change my mind, no matter how bad a game it was. I am still on the side of Weston is the US' best player and Adams as the most important.

BUT it would be an interesting discussion on these points and I could be persuaded:
1) Cp vs Weston for "Best" player
2) Musah vs Adams for most important
Click to expand...
It likely comes down to the opponent we're playing. In a game against a high press/ high intensity team like Japan, then quick counterattacks and dribbling/accurate short passing are the most important aspects.

If McKennie was 100%, then he likely would've looked much better. It seems like he's still not back where he was before the injury though.

Obviously Adams had a bad game and his defensive ability is tough to frown at, but if he passes that poorly in the WC.... we're doomed IMO. Meanwhile Musah's ability on the dribble is insane, which is why he's so good at beating the press. I think we need both of them in the game to be at our best.
Click to expand...
Adams' presence frees up Musah to do his thing. I am not sure we have anyone that can play the holding close to his level that would allow that.

But I get your point.
 
B Maverick said:
encaitar said:
B Maverick said:
encaitar said:
This game was awful, but it also helped me realize that we were missing our 3 most important players to this team.

Pulisic is easily the best player on this team still. All attempts to pretend otherwise just need to watch this game. We'd absolutely have had a couple more chances with him out there, even if he had to create them himself.

Musah is quite possibly the most IMPORTANT player on the team. Sure he's not as talented as CP, but his ability to break a press with his dribbling would've done a ton to force Japan to back off.

Jedi is so far above the other LB options that he's easily one of our 3 most important players. His abilities out left would've helped immensely today.

Also, today is EXACTLY why we need Ream on the team if Miles Rob is gonna miss the world cup. We needed a CB that could ping accurate passes around today and we didn't have that. Ream could be that for this team.
Click to expand...
One game will not change my mind, no matter how bad a game it was. I am still on the side of Weston is the US' best player and Adams as the most important.

BUT it would be an interesting discussion on these points and I could be persuaded:
1) Cp vs Weston for "Best" player
2) Musah vs Adams for most important
Click to expand...
It likely comes down to the opponent we're playing. In a game against a high press/ high intensity team like Japan, then quick counterattacks and dribbling/accurate short passing are the most important aspects.

If McKennie was 100%, then he likely would've looked much better. It seems like he's still not back where he was before the injury though.

Obviously Adams had a bad game and his defensive ability is tough to frown at, but if he passes that poorly in the WC.... we're doomed IMO. Meanwhile Musah's ability on the dribble is insane, which is why he's so good at beating the press. I think we need both of them in the game to be at our best.
Click to expand...
Adams' presence frees up Musah to do his thing. I am not sure we have anyone that can play the holding close to his level that would allow that.

But I get your point.
Click to expand...

I would feel better with Acosta replacing Adams than I do with Vines replacing Jedi.
 
Today would have been a perfect time to put Weah up top if he were healthy - as it is we are going to sit 1-2 of our top 6 players* if GGG insists on Jesus at the 9.

*I have Gio and Weah that high and they will probably sit for CP and Aaronson. I have no problem with that if it wasn’t so obvious that Jesus isn’t close to their caliber. Hell, start CP and Gio with Aaronson up top to just annoy the hell out of their CBs.
 
I am not convinced Adams is any where near the top of the list for important players. We can't have a number 6 who can't complete 95% of his short passes no matter how good he is in other parts of the game. On top of his poor short distribution, he doesn't even attempt a line breaking pass (which is something Acosta can do).

And while his passing was clearly below his normal today, Adams has had fits with his passing many times in his career. He lost his spot at RBL due to it. Luckily it has not been an issue at Leeds yet but today it came back with a vengeance.

Adams is the teams best problem solver when we don't have the ball which makes him valuable but he has to get to the level of being adequate in passing, especially if GGG wants to start Long who isn't half the passer Ream is.
 
does anyone know why Canada and Qatar are playing at a neutral site in Austria today? I would have thought Qatar would have wanted a home game and Canada would have wanted a chance to play in Qatar.

Canada are up 2-0 in first half.
 
NewlyRetired said:
does anyone know why Canada and Qatar are playing at a neutral site in Austria today? I would have thought Qatar would have wanted a home game and Canada would have wanted a chance to play in Qatar.

Canada are up 2-0 in first half.
Click to expand...
Temps in Qatar are 100+ this week? No idea really.
 
AAABatteries said:
B Maverick said:
encaitar said:
B Maverick said:
encaitar said:
This game was awful, but it also helped me realize that we were missing our 3 most important players to this team.

Pulisic is easily the best player on this team still. All attempts to pretend otherwise just need to watch this game. We'd absolutely have had a couple more chances with him out there, even if he had to create them himself.

Musah is quite possibly the most IMPORTANT player on the team. Sure he's not as talented as CP, but his ability to break a press with his dribbling would've done a ton to force Japan to back off.

Jedi is so far above the other LB options that he's easily one of our 3 most important players. His abilities out left would've helped immensely today.

Also, today is EXACTLY why we need Ream on the team if Miles Rob is gonna miss the world cup. We needed a CB that could ping accurate passes around today and we didn't have that. Ream could be that for this team.
Click to expand...
One game will not change my mind, no matter how bad a game it was. I am still on the side of Weston is the US' best player and Adams as the most important.

BUT it would be an interesting discussion on these points and I could be persuaded:
1) Cp vs Weston for "Best" player
2) Musah vs Adams for most important
Click to expand...
It likely comes down to the opponent we're playing. In a game against a high press/ high intensity team like Japan, then quick counterattacks and dribbling/accurate short passing are the most important aspects.

If McKennie was 100%, then he likely would've looked much better. It seems like he's still not back where he was before the injury though.

Obviously Adams had a bad game and his defensive ability is tough to frown at, but if he passes that poorly in the WC.... we're doomed IMO. Meanwhile Musah's ability on the dribble is insane, which is why he's so good at beating the press. I think we need both of them in the game to be at our best.
Click to expand...
Adams' presence frees up Musah to do his thing. I am not sure we have anyone that can play the holding close to his level that would allow that.

But I get your point.
Click to expand...

I would feel better with Acosta replacing Adams than I do with Vines replacing Jedi.
Click to expand...
I don't know much about Vines, but since I do not rate Acosta at all, I'd say OUCH for Vines.
 
US lost to Japan 2-0
Wales lost to Belgium 2-1
England lost to Italy 1-0 (England has not scored a goal from open play in it seems like forever)
Iran beat Uruguay 1-0*

*Reading the match report and looking at the stats, it was strongly dominated by Uruguay who just could not score with a ton of chances and as often happens in this sport, the team defending like crazy scored on one of their few times up the field.
 
encaitar said:
Obviously Adams had a bad game and his defensive ability is tough to frown at, but if he passes that poorly in the WC.... we're doomed IMO.
Click to expand...
If we were allowed to play different tactics, I think we'd be fine.

This set up accentuates Adams' weaknesses unfortunately and pairing him with poor options to distribute in goal and center defense is a disaster. I think Berhlter does some things well and some elements of this setup really accentuate player strengths, but with this personnel, the Berhalter system is set up to get our worst four passing players on the ball the most.

And that's.......not good
 
I think I only saw one comment about it here...

But bah gawd Swag was awful today. I know everybody was pretty bad today, but yikes from snacks. No touch, poor movement, and so slow on and off the ball. That's a real problem if he's not firing.

Is he getting PT at juve? Doesn't look like it.
 
The Z Machine said:
El Floppo said:
Is he getting PT at juve? Doesn't look like it.
Click to expand...
Played 6 of 7 Serie A matches this season, going 90, 85, 90 in the last 3.

He ain't rusty.

But he might not have been motivated... He certainly didn't seem to play with the intensity we've seen from him.
Click to expand...

only two field players looked like they gave their normal effort today and that is the two guys you would expect in Zimm and Aaronson. The rest all looked a step slow (both physically and mentally)
 
AAABatteries said:
Today would have been a perfect time to put Weah up top if he were healthy - as it is we are going to sit 1-2 of our top 6 players* if GGG insists on Jesus at the 9.

*I have Gio and Weah that high and they will probably sit for CP and Aaronson. I have no problem with that if it wasn’t so obvious that Jesus isn’t close to their caliber. Hell, start CP and Gio with Aaronson up top to just annoy the hell out of their CBs.
Click to expand...
As poor as our 9s are I agree I would prefer just a talented player up top who isn’t a liability. Starting Jesus or Sargent and having Gio on the bench seems incredibly foolish.
 
I would imagine GGG's pregame "pep" talk was something like:
"It's a friendly guys. You top 8-10 just don't get hurt. I need to see 4-5 guys and see if they need a plane ticket. Let's just get through this".

Meanwhile, Japan's pregame speech was "REMEMBER HIROSHIMA!!!11!!1!"

That's the only logical explanation I can come up with...
 
NewlyRetired said:
UppI am not convinced Adams is any where near the top of the list for important players. We can't have a number 6 who can't complete 95% of his short passes no matter how good he is in other parts of the game. On top of his poor short distribution, he doesn't even attempt a line breaking pass (which is something Acosta can do).

And while his passing was clearly below his normal today, Adams has had fits with his passing many times in his career. He lost his spot at RBL due to it. Luckily it has not been an issue at Leeds yet but today it came back with a vengeance.

Adams is the teams best problem solver when we don't have the ball which makes him valuable but he has to get to the level of being adequate in passing, especially if GGG wants to start Long who isn't half the passer Ream is.
Click to expand...
From the parts I watched the issue was Swag and De La Torre were playing too high/vertical which left our 5 against their 4 and pinned the backs back. When they did track back they were then too separated from the 3 forwards.
prefontaine said:
encaitar said:
Obviously Adams had a bad game and his defensive ability is tough to frown at, but if he passes that poorly in the WC.... we're doomed IMO.
Click to expand...
If we were allowed to play different tactics, I think we'd be fine.

This set up accentuates Adams' weaknesses unfortunately and pairing him with poor options to distribute in goal and center defense is a disaster. I think Berhlter does some things well and some elements of this setup really accentuate player strengths, but with this personnel, the Berhalter system is set up to get our worst four passing players on the ball the most.

And that's.......not good
Click to expand...
Here’s a Twitter thread on why a single pivot with Adams doesn’t work especially with Swag. He also thinks Reyna, Aaronson, and Jesus are too similar if they are all up top.

 
Sammy3469 said:
NewlyRetired said:
UppI am not convinced Adams is any where near the top of the list for important players. We can't have a number 6 who can't complete 95% of his short passes no matter how good he is in other parts of the game. On top of his poor short distribution, he doesn't even attempt a line breaking pass (which is something Acosta can do).

And while his passing was clearly below his normal today, Adams has had fits with his passing many times in his career. He lost his spot at RBL due to it. Luckily it has not been an issue at Leeds yet but today it came back with a vengeance.

Adams is the teams best problem solver when we don't have the ball which makes him valuable but he has to get to the level of being adequate in passing, especially if GGG wants to start Long who isn't half the passer Ream is.
Click to expand...
From the parts I watched the issue was Swag and De La Torre were playing too high/vertical which left our 5 against their 4 and pinned the backs back. When they did track back they were then too separated from the 3 forwards.
prefontaine said:
encaitar said:
Obviously Adams had a bad game and his defensive ability is tough to frown at, but if he passes that poorly in the WC.... we're doomed IMO.
Click to expand...
If we were allowed to play different tactics, I think we'd be fine.

This set up accentuates Adams' weaknesses unfortunately and pairing him with poor options to distribute in goal and center defense is a disaster. I think Berhlter does some things well and some elements of this setup really accentuate player strengths, but with this personnel, the Berhalter system is set up to get our worst four passing players on the ball the most.

And that's.......not good
Click to expand...
Here’s a Twitter thread on why a single pivot with Adams doesn’t work especially with Swag. He also thinks Reyna, Aaronson, and Jesus are too similar if they are all up top.

Click to expand...
I think this twitter rant pretty much nails it but misses one key component:

The reason the lone 6 is so harsh on Tyler is, yes, the guys in front of him, but incredibly important are the guys behind him. If you look at the passing map from the first half, it's clear we were not including others in the attack. There isn't even a line between Zimmerman and McKennie or Long and LDT and the forwards may as well not have been on the pitch.

All of this starts because the center backs have no passing range, can't see how to play players into space allowing easier turns, can't skip levels, and can't quickly switch play. It's slow and predictable. It's a formation problem but on top of that it's a problem in maximizing skill set. This does not play into Long, Zimmerman, OR Tyler's skill set (or Turner). If we are determined to play out of the back, this game was crying out for a Plan B.
 
On another note, it will be interesting to see what this game did to help/hurt guys on the margins or answer questions

GK - I think Turner probably solidified himself as the #1 for Qatar
FB - Cannon was not good and I was very hopeful on Vines but this performance probably puts him off the roster. I do wonder if Dest is going to play LB vs Saudi or Scally (I would prefer to see Scally given time at RB).
CB - Long was bad. I thought McKenzie was a touch better. I hope Long gets no PT vs Saudi so we can see EPB and McKenzie.
DM - Johnny showed he's not up to it
CM - No one played well but I'm not sure it changed the depth chart much. I don't really see it with Tillman but since no other options have been really given a chance in a while, I expect he'll head to Qatar anyway. He's definitely flashed high levels so I can see where off the bench maybe he sparks something but I'd really rather Gio being slotted in as the 3rd option as an 8. His weaving run and the nice switch of play that led to our only good chance were basically the only bright spots in the 1h.
Wings - I'm still not sure what role Morris plays at this point. He didn't take his chance and I expect Arriola to play vs Saudi
Forwards - Jesus again underwhelmed. Even ignoring the wide open header he couldn't put on target, he was MIA. Sargent didn't wow but defintiely more involved. I'd like to see Sargent start and Pepi off the bench vs Saudi.

The problem for me is that Japan is a lot better and as well as a much worse match up than SA. I expect we will roll them. So the guys that get their shot vs SA are going to naturally look better.
 
VERY rough guess for SA

.....................................Turner

Scally..............Zimm..............EPB................Dest

.............................Adams...........Weston

......................................Gio

Aaronson.....................Sargent................Pulisic

Subs:

Long, Nips, Pepi, Acosta, Yedlin
 
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