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Vinateiri WARMED the ball? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Weapon of Mass Instruction
- Start date
XFFFCOMMISH
Footballguy
I agree with all three of your points. Raider fans had a legit grip about the Pats victory over them. This "heated ball" argument is stupid. The Pats-Titans game was a physical hard fought game that could have gone either way with a bounce of the ball. The Patriots were more disciplined and deserved to win. Thats the way it goes.EDIT- I agreed with the first three points, not four. I love the Pats and hope they win!
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MonkeyButt
Footballguy
:rotflmao: Classic! As much as I disliked the call, the refs in the Oak/NE got the call correct. According to the rules, that play was not a fumble. But you feel the Raider fans have a legit gripe even though it was the correct call according to the rules. However, if the Pats had done something to the K-ball (I do not believe they did), you think people should just get over it, even though it is clearly against the rules.
Hatchdog33
Footballguy
The refs also blew it by not flagging Woodson for leaving his feet and going head to head on Brady. The Raiders had their chance to get it done, but couldn't get ONE yard on 3rd and 4th and one.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
This is why Patriot fans get a bad rap. I practically bent over backwards saying how I thought the Pats deserved those wins. But you can't tell me that at the time Brady lost the ball you were saying "No problem, it will be reversed because of the Tuck rule."Before that game no one had ever heard of the Tuck Rule. I was watching that game with 10 avid NFL fans and not one of them, including a guy from Boston, thought it wasn't a fumble. Why can't Pats fans just admit that they were lucky to get a call that was seldom, if ever, called?
Goat Herders
Footballguy
Because when you are the best team in the history of the league, luck is not a factor.HERD
GreedoShotFirst
Footballguy
Party on Garth
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Because there is never an end to the bad calls right goat...Yeah Oak got jipped on a call but to cry about the TEN O-lineman taking down 1 of the Pats DL-man is ridiculous.
PatsFanCT
Footballguy
Actually, the tuck rule was used three other times that same year... And has also been used since. Warner, Collins, and I can't remember who else; all got a favorable ruling on the tuck earlier that season. But since it wasn't a playoff game, nobody cared.I admit I never heard of it before then either, and thought it was a fumble, but if it's a rule, I'll take it. The NFL has since had a chance to change the rule but opted not to.As for the heated ball debate, if it is in fact true, and they find evidence substantiating it, then I am not against a playoff suspension.
MonkeyButt
Footballguy
Ahhhh...this is getting better by the minute. Now I'm a Pats fan?
Point is, the refs made the correct call in the Oak/NE. I even said "as much as I disliked the call" (this means I did not agree with the TUCK ruling), it was the correct call according to the rule. I thought the replay clearly showed it was a fumble, but according to the way the rule is written, the refs made the correct call. I still don't think it was the 'right' call, but it was correct according to the rules.So, I was just pointing out how funny it was that you were saying one group of fans (Raiders) had the right to whine about a call (Tuck Rule) that the refs got correct, according to the rules, but another group of fans (Titans/Colts) should get over a missed call (tampering with the K-ball) that, if true, is clearly a violation of the rules.
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Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
This morning, I saw a short clip of a video. The guys are not huddled around just for heat -- you can tell they are trying "make a wall" for lack of better description. You see them looking around like they're concerned to be seen. The visual makes it evident that SOMETHING is fishy, whether or not it actually is.Just passing on what is reported.As a fan known as "bostonfred" to a fan formerly known as "Keithbulluckisyourdaddy", this is probably not the most objective post anyways, but I thought I'd point out that, conspiracy theories aside, there's plenty of reasons for a bunch of players to be huddled around the heater when it's 0 degrees outside.Ok, it is 0 degrees.You are warming up to kick a 46 yard field goal.How did he get his hands on the ball?
How can we be sure it's the same ball and not a practice ball.
You guys are starting to sound like disgruntalled Raiders fans from 2 years ago.
Game is over, no going back.
The field goal is to be kicked with a 0 degree K ball.
So...you practice that with a hot, soft football?
By the way, the refs had on gloves, so they wouldn't have noticed.
I am not saying this actually happened, I'm just saying that -- circumstantially -- it makes you suspicious. The video also shows several Pats hovered around so that it couldn't be seen. Why would you do that with a practice ball?
XFFFCOMMISH
Footballguy
Look, I'm a Pats fan and I was happy with the way things turned out, obviously. I'm just saying if the situation was reversed I'd be pretty PO'ed. I agree that the right call was made, according to the definition of the rule. But its my opinion that Brady was not trying to throw the ball, so it should have been called a fumble. The refs got it right (thank God) but still I can understand Raider fans being upset with the call.There is no evidence that Vinateri "warmed" the ball before his kick, and if he did I'm sure the NFL would have been all over it. If Fisher thought that this happened don't you think he would have brought it to the attention of the NFL?For argument's sake if Vinateri did "warm" the ball before his kick some kind of fine and/or suspension would be in order.Its my opinion that all this "warming the ball" talk is unfounded and that the Titans did not get "ripped off". I was just agreeing with the poster about all four of his points. The "tuck rule" argument was valid in my opinion.Go Pats!
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Goat Herders
Footballguy
Getting tossed on your ### doesn't mean you were held.HERD
Humping Rhino
Footballguy
Let it die.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
IMO, the kicker cannot tamper with a ball. It would have to be done by someone else. The ref is the one that spots the ball, so unless the ref gives the kicker the ball and lets him take it with him to the sideline, this is all but impossible for a kicker to accomplish on his own.The ball boys are the ones that handle the balls, especially the kicking ones. Talk to them.And as far as I know, no NFL kicker has ever been reprimanded for "tampering" with a football.And as far as the Patirots players suspiciously huddling together by the heaters, if I am not mistaken the ball was already down and spotted on the field. How on earth did the Pats get the ball on the field off and the "newly heated" one onto the field?
Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya
Footballguy
No video yet, but some more information on this story here --> Click here, then on "Foul Play in Titans-Patriots game?"
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Workhorse
Footballguy
"Shielding him", huh? I watched the video. Those two guys look like they have no idea what's going on. Hell, Vinatieri isn't really even looking at the ball either. He seems to be warming his hands.My guess is they were heating the practice ball so Adam didn't have to kick a friggin frozen rock over and over again in practice. This is a tempest in a teapot.
OK, just saw a clip that the TV station posted. Classic example of phony "reporting" by a local TV station. Innuendo and baiting without any evidence. The clip from the game does not show anything like what that reporter is claiming it is. As many people have pointed out here, kickers don't get access to the ball until the ref hands it to him, so the Pats can't possibly have cheated. To be honest I don't even see Walter holding a ball at all, let alone the game ball.As for other Pats players forming a wall...let me just say Those eyes can't roll high enough to express how dumb that statement is. THEY WERE STANDING ON THEIR OWN SIDELINES. What do you want them to do, lie down??GDB hit and run reporting. Just some mediocre reporter on a mediocre station inventing a story to pump up its own ratings.
Those eyes can't roll high enough to express how dumb that statement is. THEY WERE STANDING ON THEIR OWN SIDELINES. What do you want them to do, lie down??GDB hit and run reporting. Just some mediocre reporter on a mediocre station inventing a story to pump up its own ratings.
Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya
Footballguy
So I guess you don't believe the reporter standing infront of the volcano on the GEICO commercial, huh?OK, just saw a clip that the TV station posted. Classic example of phony "reporting" by a local TV station. Innuendo and baiting without any evidence. The clip from the game does not show anything like what that reporter is claiming it is. As many people have pointed out here, kickers don't get access to the ball until the ref hands it to him, so the Pats can't possibly have cheated. To be honest I don't even see Walter holding a ball at all, let alone the game ball.As for other Pats players forming a wall...let me just say
Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya
Footballguy
Some more LIVE information on this story you can listen to here ---> 1045 The Zone in just a few minutes.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
As much as this homer thinks the Raiders were completely robbed by the most ridiculous "rule" in sports, and as much as it pains me to say it, this is correct.
"Was this the ball that Adam Vinatieri used to kick the game winning field goal? If so, that would be considered illegal..."They never even said that was the ball. Just speculation, ratings ploy, and bad reporting. I don't see a 'wall' in that video. Just guys standing there. So Walter was holding a ball - he's a ball player. And not to mention the fact that Walter and Vinatieri wanted to keep warm before they hit the field. There is no evidence, nor has ANYONE outside of the message boards said it was the ball.Sorry, no real story here. Move along.
Workhorse
Footballguy
The reporter is all over the place. "I checked with a league source that says ball boys are in charge of the balls at a game... Nobody is saying that its impossible that they could have warmed up the ball..."Then he mistakenly says that the league rules were changed after the "Tuck Rule" which we all know is mistaken."So you have no evidence that this ball was put into play?""No, I'm not accusing the Patriots of cheating. Even if the ball was warmed up on the side, it would take at least 45 seconds before it was in play. It was so cold that it would have cooled off by the time it was in the game. My whole point is that the system with the kicking ball is imperfect..."Blah, blah, blah.... Even the Radio guys are making "grassy knoll" jokes after he's off the air and say they don't think that anything was illegal in this case.
Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya
Footballguy
This is now a dead issue. The reporter has never once accused the Pats of cheating in this manner. He was merely raising the question "Is it possible to cheat in this manner?"The answer is yes.Did the Pats cheat in this manner? Since there was no constant surveillance of the K balls, there is no proof. Thus we will never know.Now........I must resume my 2004 Draft preparation. I'm falling way behind!
Humping Rhino
Footballguy
Lets not forget the fact that they were "hovering" around a heater. Yes, thats right, a heater. For those of you not from New England, it gets very cold around these parts in January. You would also be "hovering" around the heater as well. Well, anyone besides Goat Herder, that is. He would be having his head flushed down the toilet by all the cool kids.
bostonfred2
Footballguy
I'm really just pointing out the humor behind people's surprise that the players were huddled around a heater. I didn't see the video, and have no strong opinion on the matter, except to express my condolences to you and Herd. As a Boston fan, I've certainly seen my team lose a close game in the playoffs and I know it sucks.This morning, I saw a short clip of a video. The guys are not huddled around just for heat -- you can tell they are trying "make a wall" for lack of better description. You see them looking around like they're concerned to be seen. The visual makes it evident that SOMETHING is fishy, whether or not it actually is.Just passing on what is reported.As a fan known as "bostonfred" to a fan formerly known as "Keithbulluckisyourdaddy", this is probably not the most objective post anyways, but I thought I'd point out that, conspiracy theories aside, there's plenty of reasons for a bunch of players to be huddled around the heater when it's 0 degrees outside.Ok, it is 0 degrees.You are warming up to kick a 46 yard field goal.How did he get his hands on the ball?
How can we be sure it's the same ball and not a practice ball.
You guys are starting to sound like disgruntalled Raiders fans from 2 years ago.
Game is over, no going back.
The field goal is to be kicked with a 0 degree K ball.
So...you practice that with a hot, soft football?
By the way, the refs had on gloves, so they wouldn't have noticed.
I am not saying this actually happened, I'm just saying that -- circumstantially -- it makes you suspicious. The video also shows several Pats hovered around so that it couldn't be seen. Why would you do that with a practice ball?
Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya
Footballguy
By the mere fact that you say the answer is "maybe" means that the answer is indeed "Yes, it is possible"."Maybe it's possible" makes no sense.
Aussie Cowboy
Footballguy
NFL says accusation of heated ball bogus
By JEFF LEGWOLD
Staff Writer
The NFL says the notion that the New England Patriots are playing in Sunday's AFC Championship game because kicker Adam Vinatieri booted a warmed-up football to beat the Titans last weekend is a lot of hot air.
On Wednesday night, Nashville's WSMV-4 showed video of Patriots punter Ken Walter holding a football and squatting next to a sideline heater just before Vinatieri kicked a 46–yard field goal late in the fourth quarter of New England's 17-14 victory over Tennessee.
Walter is New England's holder for placekicks.
WSMV's report alluded Walter could have been warming up the football Vinatieri eventually kicked for the game-winner.
That was not the case, an NFL spokesman said yesterday.
''I have talked to (NFL Director of Officiating) Mike Pereira, and that couldn't have possibly been the ball,'' said Greg Aiello, vice president of public relations for the NFL. ''The rules are in place. The kicking ball doesn't even come in from the kicking team's sideline.''
Asked yesterday why he was holding a ball near the heater, Walter said: ''I always have a ball in my hands.'' He said it was not the ball kicked by Vinatieri, who missed a 44-yard field goal earlier in the game.
A warmer, properly inflated football travels further off a kicker's foot than one that is cold and hard. The temperature in Foxboro, Mass., at kickoff was 4 degrees with a wind chill of minus-10, making all the footballs used in the game harder and more difficult to throw, catch and kick.
''There's no way the ball was coming off the home bench,'' Titans Coach Jeff Fisher said. ''I don't know why (Walter) was standing there with a ball, but my gut feeling is he was just warming the ball to kick into the net.
''I've also learned that holding a football is often an excuse for a player to stand next to the heater. By the third quarter I was looking for an excuse to stand there, too.''
NFL rules regarding the handling of footballs during a game are specific.
The home team provides all the footballs. For outdoor games, that's 36 footballs plus the 12 kicking or ''K-balls,'' which are stamped with a K.
The K-balls are sealed in a box by the manufacturer and opened by the game officials two hours before kickoff. Half the K-balls are kept on the home team sideline, half on the away team sideline.
One person on each sideline, wearing a vest with a large K, is designated to handle the K-balls. When it's time for a field-goal attempt, punt or kickoff, that person transfers a K-ball to an official.
For kicks by the home team, the K-ball is put into play from the visiting team's sideline. When the visiting team kicks, the K-ball comes from the home sideline.
The K-ball, which kickers say is harder and doesn't carry as far as a regular football, has been in use since the 1999 season. It was adopted to prevent kickers from doctoring footballs in order to improve distance and to keep kicking balls uniform from stadium to stadium.
Steve Ramsey, general manager of WSMV-4, said the report did not say Vinatieri actually used the ball Walter was holding but simply offered that it was a possibility.
''We showed video from the game — I just got done watching the shot,'' Ramsey said. ''We've talked to the NFL, we've talked to the Titans, kind of just doing the reporting job. The question was raised, and I think it was just one of those interesting stories. I feel good about the report we had.''
Channel 4 showed the video again on its newscasts last night.
Link
By JEFF LEGWOLD
Staff Writer
The NFL says the notion that the New England Patriots are playing in Sunday's AFC Championship game because kicker Adam Vinatieri booted a warmed-up football to beat the Titans last weekend is a lot of hot air.
On Wednesday night, Nashville's WSMV-4 showed video of Patriots punter Ken Walter holding a football and squatting next to a sideline heater just before Vinatieri kicked a 46–yard field goal late in the fourth quarter of New England's 17-14 victory over Tennessee.
Walter is New England's holder for placekicks.
WSMV's report alluded Walter could have been warming up the football Vinatieri eventually kicked for the game-winner.
That was not the case, an NFL spokesman said yesterday.
''I have talked to (NFL Director of Officiating) Mike Pereira, and that couldn't have possibly been the ball,'' said Greg Aiello, vice president of public relations for the NFL. ''The rules are in place. The kicking ball doesn't even come in from the kicking team's sideline.''
Asked yesterday why he was holding a ball near the heater, Walter said: ''I always have a ball in my hands.'' He said it was not the ball kicked by Vinatieri, who missed a 44-yard field goal earlier in the game.
A warmer, properly inflated football travels further off a kicker's foot than one that is cold and hard. The temperature in Foxboro, Mass., at kickoff was 4 degrees with a wind chill of minus-10, making all the footballs used in the game harder and more difficult to throw, catch and kick.
''There's no way the ball was coming off the home bench,'' Titans Coach Jeff Fisher said. ''I don't know why (Walter) was standing there with a ball, but my gut feeling is he was just warming the ball to kick into the net.
''I've also learned that holding a football is often an excuse for a player to stand next to the heater. By the third quarter I was looking for an excuse to stand there, too.''
NFL rules regarding the handling of footballs during a game are specific.
The home team provides all the footballs. For outdoor games, that's 36 footballs plus the 12 kicking or ''K-balls,'' which are stamped with a K.
The K-balls are sealed in a box by the manufacturer and opened by the game officials two hours before kickoff. Half the K-balls are kept on the home team sideline, half on the away team sideline.
One person on each sideline, wearing a vest with a large K, is designated to handle the K-balls. When it's time for a field-goal attempt, punt or kickoff, that person transfers a K-ball to an official.
For kicks by the home team, the K-ball is put into play from the visiting team's sideline. When the visiting team kicks, the K-ball comes from the home sideline.
The K-ball, which kickers say is harder and doesn't carry as far as a regular football, has been in use since the 1999 season. It was adopted to prevent kickers from doctoring footballs in order to improve distance and to keep kicking balls uniform from stadium to stadium.
Steve Ramsey, general manager of WSMV-4, said the report did not say Vinatieri actually used the ball Walter was holding but simply offered that it was a possibility.
''We showed video from the game — I just got done watching the shot,'' Ramsey said. ''We've talked to the NFL, we've talked to the Titans, kind of just doing the reporting job. The question was raised, and I think it was just one of those interesting stories. I feel good about the report we had.''
Channel 4 showed the video again on its newscasts last night.
Link
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NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Yeah, Joe thanks for feeding the Pats fans whining fire, I really appreciate your impartiality. I guess it makes good business sense since there are 31 teams fans that can be played to. You apologize to Titans fans for your comments but don't give a 2nd thought to how insulting they were to Pats fans? Step up and join in the fun, NE is winning again so lets antagonize their fans after all there are fans from 31 other teams to draw from and NE fans are the ONLY ones who WHINE (IE stick up) for their team right? So lets have a free for all...I don't remember the last time I saw Pats fans whining about a call but apparently you are keeping track so if I missed so many go ahead and point them out to me. I have seen plenty of other fans Oak,Gia, Mia etc ##### about bad calls & non calls. But their fans aren't constantly antagonized and labelled as whiney.It's is perfectly acceptable for Herd and a host of others to WHINE about bad calls and "warmed ball kicking conspiracies"Be careful Titans fans here. This is dangerously close to whining normally reserved for Pats fans...
but lets just call out the Pats fans.The whole respect thing is long past and the people starting the "NE is greatest team ever" type threads now are? Surprise, other teams fans such as the bitter BILLS fan doing his best to antagonize and light a fire not only in his "Best TEam" thread but others as well. Now we can count on the FBG staff to join in the fun. I have 2 choices, I can ignore this moron and let him dupe people into thinking he speaks for Pats fans or I can call this guy out and be labelled a whiner. 
So thanks Joe, I guess I can't help but be a little bitter about all the animosity from you and so many others but hopefully there will be another SB trophy in Foxboro to help me get over it
GreedoShotFirst
Footballguy
whhhaaaaaaaaaYeah, Joe thanks for feeding the Pats fans whining fire, I really appreciate your impartiality. I guess it makes good business sense since there are 31 teams fans that can be played to. You apologize to Titans fans for your comments but don't give a 2nd thought to how insulting they were to Pats fans? Step up and join in the fun, NE is winning again so lets antagonize their fans after all there are fans from 31 other teams to draw from and NE fans are the ONLY ones who WHINE (IE stick up) for their team right? So lets have a free for all...I don't remember the last time I saw Pats fans whining about a call but apparently you are keeping track so if I missed so many go ahead and point them out to me. I have seen plenty of other fans Oak,Gia, Mia etc ##### about bad calls & non calls. But their fans aren't constantly antagonized and labelled as whiney.It's is perfectly acceptable for Herd and a host of others to WHINE about bad calls and "warmed ball kicking conspiracies"Be careful Titans fans here. This is dangerously close to whining normally reserved for Pats fans...
Sack-Religious
Footballguy
As a Pats fan, I have to agree with JB.Yeah, Joe thanks for feeding the Pats fans whining fire, I really appreciate your impartiality. I guess it makes good business sense since there are 31 teams fans that can be played to. You apologize to Titans fans for your comments but don't give a 2nd thought to how insulting they were to Pats fans? Step up and join in the fun, NE is winning again so lets antagonize their fans after all there are fans from 31 other teams to draw from and NE fans are the ONLY ones who WHINE (IE stick up) for their team right? So lets have a free for all...I don't remember the last time I saw Pats fans whining about a call but apparently you are keeping track so if I missed so many go ahead and point them out to me. I have seen plenty of other fans Oak,Gia, Mia etc ##### about bad calls & non calls. But their fans aren't constantly antagonized and labelled as whiney.It's is perfectly acceptable for Herd and a host of others to WHINE about bad calls and "warmed ball kicking conspiracies"Be careful Titans fans here. This is dangerously close to whining normally reserved for Pats fans...
NE Revival, you need to relax a little. JB was just having a little fun and I read it be at the expense of noth the Titans and Pats fans. It really wasn't so offensive that you need to get all bunched up and takin' it personal.Sometimes fans need to vent a little after close games and their entitled to do so. Titans fans were entitled to do so. Pats fans are equally entitled to defend and even relish the victory a little. It's all well and good as long as everyone is respectful of the others.Pats fans should enjoy the win over a very good Titans team--cuz it's gonna be their last of the season anyhow.
Step up and join in the fun, NE is winning again so lets antagonize their fans after all there are fans from 31 other teams to draw from and NE fans are the ONLY ones who WHINE (IE stick up) for their team right? So lets have a free for all...I don't remember the last time I saw Pats fans whining about a call but apparently you are keeping track so if I missed so many go ahead and point them out to me. I have seen plenty of other fans Oak,Gia, Mia etc ##### about bad calls & non calls. But their fans aren't constantly antagonized and labelled as whiney.It's is perfectly acceptable for Herd and a host of others to WHINE about bad calls and "warmed ball kicking conspiracies"
I'm getting a bit tired of some of the message board bullies picking on the Pats fans around here. OK, some of us deserve it, but it's getting real old, guys. Why is it ok around here to pick on Pats fans, but all the other whiners on the board get a free pass?
Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya
Footballguy
PAHLEEEASE!Put the shoe on the other foot, pal.You can't be so naive as to think PatsFan would not be doing the same "whining" had the Titans won on a last minute FG and a Boston reporter raised a question about Gary Anderson & Craig Hentrich huddled around a heater with Hentrich holding a football 3 plays before that game-winning FG.Talk aboutIt's is perfectly acceptable for Herd and a host of others to WHINE about bad calls and "warmed ball kicking conspiracies"
!!!!!!GEEZ!!!!!!
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Good for you Ken, checks in the mail right?Well I am not getting paid like u r so my opinion is based soley on what I see on this board. I am tired of it and now it's gotten to the point where even the owner joins in the fun so pardon me for being fed up with this BS. There are 2 threads right now on the "Pats greatest" type theme and neither 1 was started by a Pats fan. NE hasn't had any calls to whine about in a long long time so I don't agree with Joe's characterization of Pats fans. I don't know what u and Joe are talking about? Please enlighten me and maybe I won't be so sensitive to the insults.As a Pats fan, I have to agree with JB.Yeah, Joe thanks for feeding the Pats fans whining fire, I really appreciate your impartiality. I guess it makes good business sense since there are 31 teams fans that can be played to. You apologize to Titans fans for your comments but don't give a 2nd thought to how insulting they were to Pats fans? Step up and join in the fun, NE is winning again so lets antagonize their fans after all there are fans from 31 other teams to draw from and NE fans are the ONLY ones who WHINE (IE stick up) for their team right? So lets have a free for all...I don't remember the last time I saw Pats fans whining about a call but apparently you are keeping track so if I missed so many go ahead and point them out to me. I have seen plenty of other fans Oak,Gia, Mia etc ##### about bad calls & non calls. But their fans aren't constantly antagonized and labelled as whiney.It's is perfectly acceptable for Herd and a host of others to WHINE about bad calls and "warmed ball kicking conspiracies"Be careful Titans fans here. This is dangerously close to whining normally reserved for Pats fans...
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XFFFCOMMISH
Footballguy
Maybe all the whining Titans fans should focus on the Titans shooting themselves in the foot at the end of the game with stupid penalties instead of these "conspiracy theories".Or maybe whiining Titans fans should focus on the fact that they lost to a better team.......twice.PAHLEEEASE!Put the shoe on the other foot, pal.You can't be so naive as to think PatsFan would not be doing the same "whining" had the Titans won on a last minute FG and a Boston reporter raised a question about Gary Anderson & Craig Hentrich huddled around a heater with Hentrich holding a football 3 plays before that game-winning FG.Talk about
Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya
Footballguy
Is this not the price to be paid for having a successful organization?Think back:When the Packers had their 1960's run, you had your Packers lovers and Packers haters.When the Cowboys had their 1970's run, you had your Cowboys lovers and Cowboys haters.When the Steelers had their 1970's run, you had your Steelers lovers and Steelers haters.When the Redskins had their 1980's run, you had your Redkins lovers and Redskins haters.When the 49ers had their 1980's run, you had your 49ers lovers and 49ers haters.When the Cowboys had their 1990's run, you had more Cowboys lovers and Cowboys haters.Think of it like this:In 2003-2004, would you rather be RaidersFan? ChargersFan? LionsFan? CardinalsFan?Enjoy the run. The Pats are a great team this year. But with the success will come attempts from ????Fan to verbally knock them since their (our) seasons are over.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Good enough, and sure there will always be sour grapes by other fans but when the propieters fuel the fire it is starting to get a little out of hand.
