Well, a thread like this was bound to exist at some point. Everyone loves a controversy. Heck, probably nothing more than Adam holding his practice ball while simply trying to get some warmth. But some folks want to make this the last straw to cling to as they sink into the offseason.I don't see any way in the world that he's going to get the kick ball from the ball holder, warm it, give it back to the ball boy and then have the refs grab that same ball for the play. I searched several sites for info on this and found nothing except for 12 pages on this subject on the Titans MB. Imagine that.
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Vinateiri WARMED the ball? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Weapon of Mass Instruction
- Start date
taylorj99
Footballguy
I hate the Pats as much or more than anyone, ever, dead or alive, ever. But, this is ridiculous. Any team that's passer barely breaks 200 yds and only throws for 1 td, and running back can't get 100 yds, and the only receiving TD is to your 17th string, rookie WR, should lose the game. However, the Titans played equally bad and were simply outcoached. Get over it. Even if there was a big conspiracy to warm the ball for Vinatieri, those 3 points didn't cap off some extraordinary comeback. The Titans deserved to lose.
That's right... if Vinatieri did in fact doctor one of the K-balls by heating it up, then he obviously did so in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage. Whether or not the heated ball did indeed fly further, or even whether or not the heated ball was the one he ended up kicking, is not the point.
Humping Rhino
Footballguy
Are all teams subject to such scrutiny after a win or is it just the Patriots. After every important win this team gets everyone on the losing/hating side accuses them of cheating. Give me a break. Did Delhomme cheat when he threw that winning TD pass to Smith? Did Akers warm the ball on his kick against the Packers? Did anyone accuse the Colts of cheating when noone on the Broncos touched Harrison and he got that long TD? Let's for once let a win be a win.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
You are assuming that the Titans (and their fans) are the ones with the gripe and that is not the case. The gripe should be from the Colts (and their fans). They could make the case that such a rule violation jeopardized the integrity of the game and costs the Colts a home AFC Championship game. The league could then rule that Vineteri be suspended for the AFC Championship Game (still in Foxboro).The BlueOnion
taylorj99
Footballguy
First they would have to provide definitive proof of the infraction to the NFL, and they would make a determination whether the ball was "tampered" with and it did give them an "unfair advantage." But, more likely than suspending Vinatieri, the league would probably fine the organization, issue and apology to everyone else, and move on. The Pats would deny any knowledge of the infraction, and the referees, who are responsible for the integrity of the ball, would take no blame in the matter. The bottom line is this, if the Titans lost a game because another team warmed a ball so it would fly further, you can assume they had ample opportunity to win the game themselves.
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The game is over. There is no red flag for the coach to throw. There is no instant replay. The wistle has blown. This mere speculation that the ball was warmed. There is no proof. Go back to your lives citizens.edited to change marmed to warmed.Sorry about the typo, somebody else must have tampered with my keyboard. Illegally warmed it or something.
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Workhorse
Footballguy
This is example #1 of why fantasy football, while a blast, is making us a nation of DUMB football fans.All of a sudden, GOOD DEFENSE = BAD FOOTBALL.Honestly, there were 2 turnovers in a hard-hitting, intense, close playoff game and people see this as two teams playing "equally bad"????UN-freakin-REAL.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
A-MenThis is example #1 of why fantasy football, while a blast, is making us a nation of DUMB football fans.All of a sudden, GOOD DEFENSE = BAD FOOTBALL.Honestly, there were 2 turnovers in a hard-hitting, intense, close playoff game and people see this as two teams playing "equally bad"????UN-freakin-REAL.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
Your first point: Proof of tampering...Yes, somebody would need proof. We (as average fans) do not have the video tape available to us so we cannot speculate whether there is proof or is not proof.
Your second point: But, more likely than suspending Vinatieri, the league would probably fine the organization...
This sends the mesage to organizations that if a team has an important kick to win an important playoff game, tampering with the ball will only result in a fine. If this is the case, every team will tamper with the ball for important kicks if the only penalty is a fine.
The BlueOnion
taylorj99
Footballguy
How do you consider a game with 2 turnovers, and 3 combined sacks, a defensive battle. Get real. I wasn't impressed by either teams' play. And I'll issue a guarantee as well. If your Pats play such "impressive" defense against the Colts, they will get their asses handed to them, cold, on a hot plate.
MonkeyButt
Footballguy
So, it should only be considered cheating if it gives a team an "unfair advantage"? Some amazing logic around here. :wacko: The rules prohibit the kickers from messing with the K-balls. I don't think there is anything to this story (too much stuff would have had to occur for this to actually happen) but let's say it did.Adam warms the K-ball before his FG attempt. We have film showing Adam getting the ball and warming it during the TO. The ball is clearly placed in play by the officials. The kick is good. Do you think an unfair advantage was gained on the made FG? Should something be done to punish the rules violation?Okay, now let's assume everything above happened but this time Adam missed the FG. Do you think an unfair advantage was gained on the missed FG? Or should the fact that the FG was missed mean that no rules violation took place?
Goat Herders
Footballguy
ffershand: "Hi, I'm HERD. Make sure you have eyes in the back of your head and have a safe haven somewhere. The Pats fans DO NOT like it one bit when you talk about their beloved Billy Bellicheck and his defensive schemes. They especially hate it when you refer to their team on any level not equal to Wooden's Bruins, Gretzky's Oilers, and Ruth's Yankees. Just offering some advice to a fellow 'rational thinker'"HERDMarktheVike
Footballguy
The warmed ball was thrown onto the field from the Grassy Knoll. I saw it on the Zapruder film.
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funny
taylorj99
Footballguy
Isn't that the definition of cheating. Trying to gain an unfair advantage.Now think about every other game you've ever watched on TV. How many times have you seen the camera man looking at something stupid. Then the commentators chime in and make a comment on whatever. My point is, don't you think if there was film on this, that it would already have been public knowledge?
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The Ref
Footballguy
For what it's worth I was at the game Sat night and unless the K ball was in a 400 degree stove for an extended period of time - taken out of that stove and put out into the field immediately - and the snapped said ball no more then 30 seconds later it really would not have mattered. My reasons? I could tell you about the temperature and what COULD happen on such a cold day, instead I will tell you what happened to me that day and you can draw your on conclusion. Two hours before the game I took a "warm" Sam Adams and poured it into a glass mug, neither one was in ice and in was the back seat of our heated truck. I then took the mug and put it on top of the truck and went and took a leak (not a pleasant experience, can you say shrinkage 
). By the time I got back to the truck the beer had frozen over about a 1/4 of an inch. Mind you I was away from this beer for about 2 min at the max. As enjoyed the beer, and a few more the beer would freeze to the side of the glass so that by the time we went into the stadium there was an ice sheet all the way around the inside of the mug.Now, if the ball was heated on the sideline, it wouldn't matter. It would still be cheating. But I'll tell you, I would be surprised if it made even a little bit of difference because the ball would not have been able to keep the heat.
). By the time I got back to the truck the beer had frozen over about a 1/4 of an inch. Mind you I was away from this beer for about 2 min at the max. As enjoyed the beer, and a few more the beer would freeze to the side of the glass so that by the time we went into the stadium there was an ice sheet all the way around the inside of the mug.Now, if the ball was heated on the sideline, it wouldn't matter. It would still be cheating. But I'll tell you, I would be surprised if it made even a little bit of difference because the ball would not have been able to keep the heat.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
If there is evidence, I suspect it would have been brought up by somebody (of some importance in the NFL). Because it has not been brought up yet (outside of Tennessee fan message boards), I tend to believe it did not happen.But if their is evidence of tampering, I suspect there should be a suspension.The BlueOnionHatchdog33
Footballguy
Believing a team that lost twice to another in the same season is better = Rational thinking 
bostonfred2
Footballguy
As a fan known as "bostonfred" to a fan formerly known as "Keithbulluckisyourdaddy", this is probably not the most objective post anyways, but I thought I'd point out that, conspiracy theories aside, there's plenty of reasons for a bunch of players to be huddled around the heater when it's 0 degrees outside.Ok, it is 0 degrees.You are warming up to kick a 46 yard field goal.How did he get his hands on the ball?
How can we be sure it's the same ball and not a practice ball.
You guys are starting to sound like disgruntalled Raiders fans from 2 years ago.
Game is over, no going back.
The field goal is to be kicked with a 0 degree K ball.
So...you practice that with a hot, soft football?
By the way, the refs had on gloves, so they wouldn't have noticed.
I am not saying this actually happened, I'm just saying that -- circumstantially -- it makes you suspicious. The video also shows several Pats hovered around so that it couldn't be seen. Why would you do that with a practice ball?
taylorj99
Footballguy
Heated liquid in the cold is a different animal than a heated gas. Warmer gas is lighter (albeit, not by much). Not to mention a warmed ball is softer, will flex more upon the kick, and hence rebound more explosively, creating a kick that would sound like a shotgun blast, "heard around the world", narrowly clearing the crossbar from 46 yds.
Now they are complaining about the delay of game penalties against McNair. Claiming the play clock started before the ball was placed. 
Holy crap, what a bunch of crybabies.
http://www.titansonline.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ik...;t=14294;st=220
Holy crap, what a bunch of crybabies.
http://www.titansonline.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ik...;t=14294;st=220
taylorj99
Footballguy
Let me reiterate. There are only three things in this world that I hate more than the Pats. They are Dave Wannstedt, the f'in Jets, and fat girls named Dakota who think they're sexy. So with that being said, I am definitely not backing the Pats in any way. The Titans were outcoached. Get over it.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
How so? You were making nice solid points until you threw out this little nugget...HERD
BlueOnion
Footballguy
Yes, this was the case right after the game and is still the case today. The case is closed, the Patriots won and there really is no debate. This is all in the past and these things cannot be reversed.The debate is going forward, into this weekend and every football game in the future, whether it be games this weekend, the Superbowl, next year's Supebowl and so on and so on.
If a kicker tampers with a 'K' ball, what is the penalty?
The BlueOnion
nerangers
Footballguy
Always need an excuse why you lost to the Pats. Warming the ball now? I will add that to the list. Thanks for the laugh.so he got the ball from the ref, then ran to the sideline to warm it, to hand it to the ref, who handed it back to him, so it could be kicked? an no one was the wiser? Another stroke of genius by the Pats. What will they do for an encore this week?
Goat Herders
Footballguy
So, the QB is held below his season average. The RBs are held below what would be a conservative amount of yardage considering the weather. And that's "bad coaching?" You lost me. Fisher gave his guys every opportunity to win. I'm whining loud about this one, but I'm a reasonable person at heart: The Titans PLAYERS didn't execute for four full quarters. Thats why they lost, not because Fisher got "outcoached."HERD
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Some obseravations about the Pats and recent playoff games from a Steelers fan:
1. The warmed ball affair, if it even happened, is water over the bridge. The Titans lost the game and should quit whining about it. If you have to go back at video tape and see what the K-ball guy is doing you are really grasping at straws. The Titans had opportunities to win the game and blew it. The Patriots were the better team.
2. Going back to the AFC Championship game against the Steelers two years ago. It was not a question of Belichek outcoaching Cowher or the Steelers overlooking the Patriots. The Steelers played hard and the Patriots needed two special teams plays to win -- but they got them. The Patriots played a better game and deserved to go to the Super Bowl. No sour grapes here.
3. Going back to the playoff game with the Raiders -- the Patriots were lucky to win this one. The refs pulled out an obscure rule that I had never seen applied in all my years of watching the NFL. If you ever get a chance to look at the replay take a look at Brady, Belichek and the rest of the Patriots. They all knew it was a fumble and thought they has lost the game. But once given the break they took advantage of it and pulled out the victory. They have nothing to be ashamed about.
Now all that being said: I sure hope the Colts win this week because I can't stand the Pats
1. The warmed ball affair, if it even happened, is water over the bridge. The Titans lost the game and should quit whining about it. If you have to go back at video tape and see what the K-ball guy is doing you are really grasping at straws. The Titans had opportunities to win the game and blew it. The Patriots were the better team.
2. Going back to the AFC Championship game against the Steelers two years ago. It was not a question of Belichek outcoaching Cowher or the Steelers overlooking the Patriots. The Steelers played hard and the Patriots needed two special teams plays to win -- but they got them. The Patriots played a better game and deserved to go to the Super Bowl. No sour grapes here.
3. Going back to the playoff game with the Raiders -- the Patriots were lucky to win this one. The refs pulled out an obscure rule that I had never seen applied in all my years of watching the NFL. If you ever get a chance to look at the replay take a look at Brady, Belichek and the rest of the Patriots. They all knew it was a fumble and thought they has lost the game. But once given the break they took advantage of it and pulled out the victory. They have nothing to be ashamed about.
Now all that being said: I sure hope the Colts win this week because I can't stand the Pats
Saints-Man
Footballguy
That is one magical lugee, I mean football.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
This is rapidly falling apart. Of course they wouldn't be there without Belicheck. The Bucs wouldn't have won it last year without Gruden, and so forth and so on. Is your point that the Titans would have won if someone else was coaching the Pats, thus Belicheck is the difference, thus he outcoached Fisher? Thats a whole lot of (unprovable) assumptions. Considering that the margain of error for BOTH teams in this game was virtually nil, I can't imagine how you could quantify one coach's contributions versus the other.HERD
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I'm starting to think maybe Akers warmed the ball before his OT game winner against the Packers. In fact, I'm sure he did. Actually, I recall seeing the Eagles huddled together around the ball shortly before the kick ...
taylorj99
Footballguy
That's exactly what I'm saying. While every head coach is directly or indirectly responsible for his teams play, I believe Belichick has gotten a lot more from this team than they would be capable of under a different coach.Fisher is a good coach too, but he couldn't get the win. Therefore outcoached.
Greg R
Footballguy
This is incorrect.Kickers want the ball warmer because it makes the ball lighter due to boyancy, and because warm air takes up more volume which will make the ball rounder, giving it less wind resistance.A cold, hard ball would be preferable if the above factors were not involved, such as if it were a vacuum. The ball compressing and rebounding converts some of the applied energy to heat, while the colder ball that compresses less wouldn't have as much energy loss in the impact. Of course, the amount of energy we're talking about is miniscule compared to what is applied. But it's the aerodynamics that are helped, not how much the ball springs off the foot. Party on Wayne.
