Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior (1 Viewer)

[saintsfan]

It's a cliche, but I believe it with all my heart, nobody on their death bed wishes they had spent more time in the office or doing school work.

Unless of course you're dying penniless and childless on some mat in a halfway house or under a bridge somewhere, then perhaps you'd be wishing you worked and studied a little harder.

LOL!! Yeah, maybe then.

 

[General Malaise]

Also....Amy Chua....I totally would.

 

[rolyaTy]

Interesting, but not surprising. When you're limited to one kid, I guess you'll do your damdest to ensure they succeed, especially because they'll be competing with, oh, about a billion other people for opportunities and dates.

The author of the essay lived in the U.S. and had two kids. But I suppose it's possible the "one kid" rule shaped a lot of parenting attitudes over the years.

I thought the "one kid" rule was a relatively recent edict....last few decades at most. From what I understood, this type of parenting has roots that date back centuries.I think....

The billion or so competitors for everything from mates, to jobs, to performance opportunities though...probly been around a bit longer .I'd say the philosophy and the huge competition play the biggest part in why they are the way they are.

 

[LHUCKS]

I highly suggest a visit to China if you ever have the opportunity, particularly if you can connect with somebody that is a Chinese citizen. It will broaden your horizons and potentially change your life perspective.

This is a bit of a hijack, but whatever. In what way did it change your life perspective to go to China?

some of the major themes I observed and general thoughts1) The importance of family in the Chinese culture and social fabric is a value America doesn't have2) Personal wealth does not hold the importance to the degree it does in the US. Happiness and inner peace are for more important3) Respect in general, respecting your elders, your family, your co-workers, everything about the culture was about respect4) The basic political philosophy of countries should mind their own business.5) The lack of environmental concern6) The excess of Westerners7) Their trust in govt.8) Their fear of govt.I could go on and on, but in general the outlook is so incredibly different at its core.

 

[Uncle Owen]

Also....Amy Chua....I totally would.

I bet she's stiffer than frozen cod in the sack.

 

[General Malaise]

That's great. Now somebody teach them how to drive.

DAMN YOU!

 

[saintsfan]

Yeah, I don't know. Some of that is insane. Grades and successful careers are important, but what about other things, like, I don't know, enjoying life??

I think part of it comes from a culture where, if you don't have excellent grades and a successful career, you cannot enjoy life.In a pool of a billion people for potential mates and employees, imagine the competition.

I guess, but some of that just seems insane. That life would be a nightmare for my kids. I mean, the world needs C students too, right???

 

[General Malaise]

Also....Amy Chua....I totally would.

I bet she's stiffer than frozen cod in the sack.

Must.....resist.....

 

[rolyaTy]

Yeah, I don't know. Some of that is insane. Grades and successful careers are important, but what about other things, like, I don't know, enjoying life??

I think part of it comes from a culture where, if you don't have excellent grades and a successful career, you cannot enjoy life.In a pool of a billion people for potential mates and employees, imagine the competition.

I guess, but some of that just seems insane. That life would be a nightmare for my kids. I mean, the world needs C students too, right???

I imagine C students in China would have to pay their employers to let them work. And as far as marriage, well...I'd imagine they're scraping the bottom of the genetic barrel there.

 

[Uncle Owen]

Also....Amy Chua....I totally would.

I bet she's stiffer than frozen cod in the sack.

Must.....resist.....

:softball:

 

[FUBAR]

Yeah, I don't know. Some of that is insane. Grades and successful careers are important, but what about other things, like, I don't know, enjoying life??

I think part of it comes from a culture where, if you don't have excellent grades and a successful career, you cannot enjoy life.In a pool of a billion people for potential mates and employees, imagine the competition.

I guess, but some of that just seems insane. That life would be a nightmare for my kids. I mean, the world needs C students too, right???

of course, who else are the A students going to own as slavesmanage?

 

[saintsfan]

Yeah, I don't know. Some of that is insane. Grades and successful careers are important, but what about other things, like, I don't know, enjoying life??

I think part of it comes from a culture where, if you don't have excellent grades and a successful career, you cannot enjoy life.In a pool of a billion people for potential mates and employees, imagine the competition.

I guess, but some of that just seems insane. That life would be a nightmare for my kids. I mean, the world needs C students too, right???

I imagine C students in China would have to pay their employers to let them work. And as far as marriage, well...I'd imagine they're scraping the bottom of the genetic barrel there.

Wow. Really?? Sounds rough.

 

[rolyaTy]

Yeah, I don't know. Some of that is insane. Grades and successful careers are important, but what about other things, like, I don't know, enjoying life??

I think part of it comes from a culture where, if you don't have excellent grades and a successful career, you cannot enjoy life.In a pool of a billion people for potential mates and employees, imagine the competition.

I guess, but some of that just seems insane. That life would be a nightmare for my kids. I mean, the world needs C students too, right???

I imagine C students in China would have to pay their employers to let them work. And as far as marriage, well...I'd imagine they're scraping the bottom of the genetic barrel there.

Wow. Really?? Sounds rough.

Honestly, I don't know. I think it'd be entertaining to try to come up with the types of jobs a C student in China might hope for.Personal sanitary towel remover and disposer? Personal assistant to the guy who cleans the public bathrooms?

 

[shake zula]

Yeah, I don't know. Some of that is insane. Grades and successful careers are important, but what about other things, like, I don't know, enjoying life??

I think part of it comes from a culture where, if you don't have excellent grades and a successful career, you cannot enjoy life.In a pool of a billion people for potential mates and employees, imagine the competition.

I guess, but some of that just seems insane. That life would be a nightmare for my kids. I mean, the world needs C students too, right???

Agreed. But I know I'd be at least 98% more unhappy digging ditches than I am in an office setting. Just saying...

 

[ODoyleRules]

Meh, from what I saw and learned about China, I'd call it different, not superior. Respect for elders was one area where they excelled vs. USA.

Also, someone commented about personal wealth not being important (relative to the U.S.)... I don't know about that - for a socialist country, they are probably better entrepreneurs than we'll ever be (generally speaking)

 

[General Malaise]

Honestly, I don't know. I think it'd be entertaining to try to come up with the types of jobs a C student in China might hope for.Personal sanitary towel remover and disposer? Personal assistant to the guy who cleans the public bathrooms?

Speaking of public bathrooms in China....

When I was in China this summer, I was a bit disturbed by the bathroom facilities in the rural areas—the communal poo rag had not yet been replaced by toilet paper. Even in tourist locations like the Great Wall, the restrooms had a rag attached to the wall to be used for wiping your ###. I had to ask our tour guide for confirmation that I wasn’t just imagining this—unfortunately I wasn’t. At the time, I just shrugged my shoulders and thought about it as little as possible. That was until I was alerted to the investment implications of this. Put simply, the average westerner uses over 25 lbs of tissue and toilet paper a year (hereafter simply called tissue). In most of the undeveloped world, the usage is a tiny fraction of that number, but it is growing rapidly.Worldwide tissue consumption in 2009 was 28.2 million tons. Production capacity will increase by 4 million tons by 2012 with 2.6 million tons of that coming online in China. As people reach a certain standard of wealth, they decide that they can afford toilet paper and all the sanitary benefits that go along with it. Per capita tissue consumption in the West has stagnated. Get ready for huge growth from the other 4 billion people who don’t yet use tissue.Tissue comes from specialized pulp known as Northern-Bleached Softwood Kraft (NBSK). This is a fiber made only from softwood conifers. It is produced primarily in the US, Canada, Chile, Germany, Russia and the Nordic Countries by turning woodchips into pulp using the Kraft process. Because of the specific strength and fiber length of NBSK, you cannot make tissue out of hardwood pulp, though many tissue manufacturers substitute some of the NBSK content with cheaper hardwood pulp. If you have ever been to a truck-stop, you can probably tell the difference between blended pulp and the pure stuff in Charmin...................

I'm cancelling my trip to China and putting the proceeds into NBSK.

 

[shake zula]

Respect for elders was one area where they excelled vs. USA.

They win that battle. But lose on the cleanliness front. I'll preface this by saying I'm not above using a poo rag. But, having been to China, it is a filthy place. As is 95% of Asia.

 

[saintsfan]

Yeah, I don't know. Some of that is insane. Grades and successful careers are important, but what about other things, like, I don't know, enjoying life??

I think part of it comes from a culture where, if you don't have excellent grades and a successful career, you cannot enjoy life.In a pool of a billion people for potential mates and employees, imagine the competition.

I guess, but some of that just seems insane. That life would be a nightmare for my kids. I mean, the world needs C students too, right???

Agreed. But I know I'd be at least 98% more unhappy digging ditches than I am in an office setting. Just saying...

I don't know about China, but here, plenty of C students work in offices.

 

[General Malaise]

Respect for elders was one area where they excelled vs. USA.

They win that battle. But lose on the cleanliness front. I'll preface this by saying I'm not above using a poo rag. But, having been to China, it is a filthy place. As is 95% of Asia.

I'm going to go ahead and raise my hand here as a member of the "Above using a poo rag" camp.

 

[Celph Titled]

Also....Amy Chua....I totally would.

She would berate you the entire time. "GET OFF ME, SNOWMAN!!!"

 

[DiStefano]

There are many successful ways of parenting. Having said that, though, studies have shown that parents who insist that effort is more important than ability tend to raise children who accomplish more, not only in school, but in life. Those who emphasize ability as the key, tend to raise children who won't put the effort into anything that is hard, preferring to get by on ability.

I don't know about their parenting, but I know where Jerry Rice and Randy Moss fall in that spectrum.

 

[-jb-]

:brackdot:

 

[General Malaise]

Also....Amy Chua....I totally would.

She would berate you the entire time. "GET OFF ME, SNOWMAN!!!"

She's not talking in my fantasy.

 

[Uncle Owen]

Also....Amy Chua....I totally would.

She would berate you the entire time. "GET OFF ME, SNOWMAN!!!"

She's not talking in my fantasy.

She's poorly overdubbed, isn't she?

 

[Celph Titled]

There are many successful ways of parenting. Having said that, though, studies have shown that parents who insist that effort is more important than ability tend to raise children who accomplish more, not only in school, but in life. Those who emphasize ability as the key, tend to raise children who won't put the effort into anything that is hard, preferring to get by on ability. I don't know about their parenting, but I know where Jerry Rice and Randy Moss fall in that spectrum.

Randy Moss is one of the most successful WR's in NFL history. Probably not the example you were looking for.

 

[Celph Titled]

Hey, Uncle Owen's back!

 

[General Malaise]

Also....Amy Chua....I totally would.

She would berate you the entire time. "GET OFF ME, SNOWMAN!!!"

She's not talking in my fantasy.

She's poorly overdubbed, isn't she?

"Ohhhh Maraise..."

 

[RudiStein]

| >>>> ---

 

[Oholibah]

There are many successful ways of parenting. Having said that, though, studies have shown that parents who insist that effort is more important than ability tend to raise children who accomplish more, not only in school, but in life. Those who emphasize ability as the key, tend to raise children who won't put the effort into anything that is hard, preferring to get by on ability. I don't know about their parenting, but I know where Jerry Rice and Randy Moss fall in that spectrum.

Randy Moss is one of the most successful WR's in NFL history. Probably not the example you were looking for.

I think he meant Todd Marinovich.

 

[Celph Titled]

Also....Amy Chua....I totally would.

She would berate you the entire time. "GET OFF ME, SNOWMAN!!!"

She's not talking in my fantasy.

She's poorly overdubbed, isn't she?

"Ohhhh Maraise..."

-_-

 

[DiStefano]

There are many successful ways of parenting. Having said that, though, studies have shown that parents who insist that effort is more important than ability tend to raise children who accomplish more, not only in school, but in life. Those who emphasize ability as the key, tend to raise children who won't put the effort into anything that is hard, preferring to get by on ability. I don't know about their parenting, but I know where Jerry Rice and Randy Moss fall in that spectrum.

Randy Moss is one of the most successful WR's in NFL history. Probably not the example you were looking for.

I think he meant Todd Marinovich.

Yes, Randy Moss is probably the most supremely gifted WR in NFL history. But he evidently thought his ability was enough. And that's fine. What happens is, a few, a very few, can get by on ability alone. But for the vast majority of people, the ability to work hard at a discipline, no matter what, will produce more over the long haul than ability alone. Nobody worked harder than Jerry Rice; which, when added to the ability he had, puts him alone at the top.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Some have suggested that she's actually written a satire, a la Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. I'm not sure:

After her young children presented her with handmade birthday cards:

I gave the card back to Lulu. “I don’t want this,” I said. “I want a better one — one that you’ve put some thought and effort into. I have a special box, where I keep all my cards from you and Sophia, and this one can’t go in there.”

“What?” said Lulu in disbelief. I saw beads of sweat start to form on Jed’s forehead.

I grabbed the card again and flipped it over. I pulled out a pen from my purse and scrawled ‘Happy Birthday Lulu Whoopee!’ I added a big sour face. “What if I gave you this for your birthday Lulu- would you like that? But I would never do that, Lulu. No — I get you magicians and giant slides that cost me hundreds of dollars. I get you huge ice cream cakes shaped like penguins, and I spend half my salary on stupid sticker and erase party favors that everyone just throws away. I work so hard to give you good birthdays! I deserve better than this. So I reject this.” I threw the card back.

After her daughter’s beloved paternal grandmother Popo died, Chua insisted the girls write a short speech to read at the funeral. Both girls refused (“No please, Mommy, don’t make,” Sophia said tearfully. “I really don’t feel like it.”). Chua insisted.

Sophia’s first draft was terrible, rambling and superficial. Lulu’s wasn’t so great either, but I held my elder daughter to a higher standard. Perhaps because I was so upset myself, I lashed out at her. “How could you, Sophia?” I said viciously. “This is awful. It has no insight. It has no depth. It’s like a Hallmark Card — which Popo hated. You are so selfish. Popo loved you so much — and you — produce-this!”

Both my children (12 and 2) are Chinese. My first wife grew up in Tianjin, came here for university. The current Mrs. BL is ABC from Long Island. We've all been having a good laugh over this.FWIW, the ex- strict, but in a 'get your homework done before you go play' kind of way, nothing wack like the Yale law professor. Mrs. BL is pretty much a softie. We don't really know anyone like this woman, although we know plenty of moms who were like this 30-40-50 years ago.

 

[Celph Titled]

There are many successful ways of parenting. Having said that, though, studies have shown that parents who insist that effort is more important than ability tend to raise children who accomplish more, not only in school, but in life. Those who emphasize ability as the key, tend to raise children who won't put the effort into anything that is hard, preferring to get by on ability. I don't know about their parenting, but I know where Jerry Rice and Randy Moss fall in that spectrum.

Randy Moss is one of the most successful WR's in NFL history. Probably not the example you were looking for.

I think he meant Todd Marinovich.

Yes, Randy Moss is probably the most supremely gifted WR in NFL history. But he evidently thought his ability was enough. And that's fine. What happens is, a few, a very few, can get by on ability alone. But for the vast majority of people, the ability to work hard at a discipline, no matter what, will produce more over the long haul than ability alone. Nobody worked harder than Jerry Rice; which, when added to the ability he had, puts him alone at the top.

But he didn't just "get by", he put together a HOF career.Charles Rogers might be a better example.

 

[Uncle Owen]

"Oh, Follest ..."

 

[DiStefano]

There are many successful ways of parenting. Having said that, though, studies have shown that parents who insist that effort is more important than ability tend to raise children who accomplish more, not only in school, but in life. Those who emphasize ability as the key, tend to raise children who won't put the effort into anything that is hard, preferring to get by on ability. I don't know about their parenting, but I know where Jerry Rice and Randy Moss fall in that spectrum.

Randy Moss is one of the most successful WR's in NFL history. Probably not the example you were looking for.

I think he meant Todd Marinovich.

Yes, Randy Moss is probably the most supremely gifted WR in NFL history. But he evidently thought his ability was enough. And that's fine. What happens is, a few, a very few, can get by on ability alone. But for the vast majority of people, the ability to work hard at a discipline, no matter what, will produce more over the long haul than ability alone. Nobody worked harder than Jerry Rice; which, when added to the ability he had, puts him alone at the top.

But he didn't just "get by", he put together a HOF career.Charles Rogers might be a better example.

Good, so you have a Randy Moss kid, tell him he can get by on his ability alone; or tell your Usain Bolt, etc. But if you have a Larry Bird, or a Jerry Rice, tell him he'll have to work his butt off if he wants into the HOF.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

There are many successful ways of parenting. Having said that, though, studies have shown that parents who insist that effort is more important than ability tend to raise children who accomplish more, not only in school, but in life. Those who emphasize ability as the key, tend to raise children who won't put the effort into anything that is hard, preferring to get by on ability. I don't know about their parenting, but I know where Jerry Rice and Randy Moss fall in that spectrum.

Randy Moss is one of the most successful WR's in NFL history. Probably not the example you were looking for.

I think he meant Todd Marinovich.

Yes, Randy Moss is probably the most supremely gifted WR in NFL history. But he evidently thought his ability was enough. And that's fine. What happens is, a few, a very few, can get by on ability alone. But for the vast majority of people, the ability to work hard at a discipline, no matter what, will produce more over the long haul than ability alone. Nobody worked harder than Jerry Rice; which, when added to the ability he had, puts him alone at the top.

Top of what?

 

[Saints-Man]

Also....Amy Chua....I totally would.

She would berate you the entire time. "GET OFF ME, SNOWMAN!!!"

She's not talking in my fantasy.

She's poorly overdubbed, isn't she?

"Ohhhh Maraise..."

 

[Celph Titled]

I'm considering raising my children in this manner, but it can be a slippery slope.

 

[Uncle Owen]

omgdistance!

 

[Uncle Owen]

I feel like there are quite a few tiny cracks in this method's armor.

 

[Celph Titled]

ool

 

[Blue-Kun]

Ends justify Means, etc. etc.

 

[grateful zed]

more than her?

 

[DiStefano]

Ends justify Means, etc. etc.

Which they often do, and often don't.

 

[Please See Mine]

Re-hashing some of what's been said, but I agree that a lot of this does come down to success vs. happiness, which is probably why it especially interests the OP. I do think that there is something to be said for being the best at something and that it would be fun. I think about what it might be like for my daughter to be the best 16-year-old guitarist or pianist or gymnast or hockey player or chess player or singer or whatever and how great that would be for her, even though it would be very difficult to get there. I sometimes wish that I had been focused on one particular thing when I was younger, as I now consider myself good at many things, but certainly not great at anything. And because I lack a focus and passion, I sometimes feel like I am unfulfilled.On the other hand, of course, are the Marinovichs and Agassis and whatnot who could pushed into something that they didn't really want and spaz out because they didn't fulfill their true calling (if there was one). This "pursuit of happiness" is of course a western and perhaps uniquely American idea, and leads to a great value being placed on individuality and self-expression. This American ethos is part of the cultural milieu, where the time and wealth to indulge in such transcendent pursuits is available, as opposed to the East and many other places where the difference between being diligent 100% of the time and 99% of the time could be life or death. Ultimately, there is very little chance that any American could truly appreciate or identify with this style of parenting.And I will buy Jed a beer or 10 if I ever run into him.

"Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and take them to Yankees games."

GFY, you self-aggrandizing shrew.

 

[cstu]

This is parental behavior that is possible in poorer societies with a lot of social restrictions. In those societies the children learn to do what they are told because their options are limited on their own (both financially and by the treated of people in the community).

 

[cstu]

children on their own never want to work

Quick, someone get on the phone to the Montessori.

 

[BobbyLayne]

This is parental behavior that is possible in poorer societies with a lot of social restrictions. In those societies the children learn to do what they are told because their options are limited on their own (both financially and by the treated of people in the community).

Presumably that would include Durham, NC, and New Haven, CT.

 

[Tiny Dancer]

Re-hashing some of what's been said, but I agree that a lot of this does come down to success vs. happiness, which is probably why it especially interests the OP.

Yup, that's part of the reason I found it interesting. Although I don't know whether people raised in this manner have less happy lives than the rest of us. I'd imagine their childhoods are worse, but maybe their adulthoods are better because they're more successful.I think I find the article interesting for a lot of other reasons too. Another big thing people talk about in the FFA is the role of "personal responsibility" in success and failure. But this article seems to contradict that -- Chinese kids are academically successful because their parents take on all the responsibility of making sure the kids succeed.

 

[-jb-]

Re-hashing some of what's been said, but I agree that a lot of this does come down to success vs. happiness, which is probably why it especially interests the OP.

Yup, that's part of the reason I found it interesting. Although I don't know whether people raised in this manner have less happy lives than the rest of us. I'd imagine their childhoods are worse, but maybe their adulthoods are better because they're more successful.I think I find the article interesting for a lot of other reasons too. Another big thing people talk about in the FFA is the role of "personal responsibility" in success and failure. But this article seems to contradict that -- Chinese kids are academically successful because their parents take on all the responsibility of making sure the kids succeed.

Obviously, how success is defined is quite subjective. Excelling at education and the violin <> becoming a CEO (which of course is only one measure of success).