Will LenDale White be a bust? (1 Viewer)

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

this is like astronomers pre copernicus & kepler who had to devise increasingly monstrous contrivances & elaborate epicycles to keep fitting the increasingly contradictory data into their pet cosmology that the sun revolved around the earth...

just as an exercise, it would be nice to hear the naysayers come up with even two to three reasons why white might succeed... he is being painted very negatively with a crudely broad brush...

Yes, Bob, White's odds of succeeding are roughly equal to the likelihood that the earth revolves around the sun...Nobody on this thread has (AFAIK) questioned his physical ability. He was a very good back in college, and with the right attitude he could be a very good back in the NFL. He is big, fast for his size, and he has great footwork.

This Norm Chow thing comes up all the time, and it is really illogical. We don't know what went on behind closed doors. It is quite possible that Norm Chow told the rest of the staff "Look, LenDale is a heckuva talent. Yes, there were occasional problems with attitude or conditioning, but at bottom he's a good kid and he'll probably straighten out. I would't take him in the middle of the first, but in the middle of the second, with no other decent backs available, I'd say he's worth the gamble".

 

[EBF]

I think the whole point people are missing is that very few of us White supporters are coming out and saying that he's a "money in the bank" lock to be a star. I think the argument we're making is that every prospect has risk and that White represents a fair gamble at his present ADP.

White is a second round NFL RB. From what I've seen, he's usually going 1.03 to 1.06 in rookie drafts. That doesn't seem like an incredible stretch. The fact is, every player that you pick has risk. Eric Shelton and JJ Arrington didn't have any character concerns last year. They both flopped miserably.

Second round picks flop all the time. White is certainly a risk. No one is saying otherwise, but I'd usually rather take the chance on the guy who falls into the second because of questions about his character than because of questions about his talent. More importantly, I think a lot of the issues are overblown here. White is considered a bit lazy and immature, but I haven't heard him to be a fraction of the problem that guys like Chris Henry and Lawrence Phillips were in college.

People are quick to point at someone like Chris Henry and say "I told you so" and that you should never draft character risks, but I'd respond by pointing to guys like Eric Shelton, TJ Duckett, Bryant Johnson, Travis Taylor, Trung Canidate, Jabar Gaffney, Taylor Jacobs, Akili Smith, Josh Reed, Tim Carter, and Quincy Morgan. Were these guys model citizens? Maybe. Were they complete flops? Mostly. A lot of players flop for a lot of different reasons. Character is only one of many potential roadblocks to success.

That risk is already factored into White's NFL draft position. If it weren't for these issues, he probably would've been a top 25 or top 15 pick. Now that he has the issues, he's usually the RB3-RB5 off the board, which seems like an appropriate spot given the risk.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

as far as the rumor, it is meaningless & was baseless... if he had gotten popped, we would know about it. he didn't. end of story.

Why do you say we would know about it? The NFL drug program is confidential.Anybody else remember the meaningless and baseless rumors about Charles Rogers' diluted urine sample before the draft?

I'm not saying it was definitely legit, but a 20% chance he has a drug problem, a 30% chance he has ongoing conditioning problems, a 30% chance he has a work ethic problem, pretty soon you have a very high chance that he has some sort of problem.

my problem with the drug rumor is it is still cited after it was disproven...the program is not supposed to release the nature of the violation... but that is not the same as thinking teams & media don't find out who was in violation... for instance, we do know wroten was on list of two people released at the combine... if it was confidential we wouldn't know that... we also know that white wasn't... he didn't fail the drug test... this has clearly been established already, yet letting rumor creep into the discussion allows us to start assigning probabilities that he has a "problem"?

if the information about rogers & diluted sample was really confidential, we wouldn't know about it! so this seems to negate your point...

most of my response top johnny u was not a denial that he may not be hardest worker in the world... but just that the argument that due to being passed for RBs like deangelo williams we are FORCED to conclude that surely it was due to work ethic problems... as if it isn't possible many team just viewed williams as the superior talent...

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

this is like astronomers pre copernicus & kepler who had to devise increasingly monstrous contrivances & elaborate epicycles to keep fitting the increasingly contradictory data into their pet cosmology that the sun revolved around the earth...

just as an exercise, it would be nice to hear the naysayers come up with even two to three reasons why white might succeed... he is being painted very negatively with a crudely broad brush...

Good point.It's easy to kick a man when he's already down.

Everyone was in love with White in December.

Does White have questions? Yes. ALL rookies do. It's just become so easy to jump on the "he'll be a bust" bandwagon, when only a few months ago we were debating who was better between Bush and White.

White is under a microscope right now. Some of it is deserved and some of it is undeserved. To even mention the "he failed a drug test" rumor is preposterous. If he had, we'd know about it. Throwing that out there is ridiculous.

He's going to be behind the curve some because he's injured and can't get into shape like he could be right now however... there's a lot of time to get in shape and show off that talent between now and the end of August.

 

[mightyeskimo]

this is like astronomers pre copernicus & kepler who had to devise increasingly monstrous contrivances & elaborate epicycles to keep fitting the increasingly contradictory data into their pet cosmology that the sun revolved around the earth...

That is the best thing I've ever heard on a fantasy football website!! EVER!!!

And no, I don't think White will be a bust.

 

[CA_7]

one question of mine that didn't get answered is the hackneyed old cliche about pac 10 defenses yielding inflated rushing numbers... is texas in the pac 10? what does his outstanding game against them in championship game do to this shopworn theory (deangelo williams didn't face a lot of stellar defenses at memphis, which would make him a bigger question than white by the criteria of strength of opposing defenses... & LT in his class)?

So you are basing White's success on one game while I am basing it on an average across and entire Pac-10 season? Do you think most NFL scouts rank players on a single game, ignoring a large data set?------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so your point is that if ANYBODY has a pulled hamstring, EVER, for ANY reason, they are a flabby loser that needs to get into shape?

I never said that, please don't put words in my mouth because your are Pro-White. Here is my direct quote to in regards to "how he supposed to run with a hamstring injury..." :

Get in shape so the chances of it happening are less

I am not a physical trainer or doctor but I am assuming that people are in good shape (relative to their job and colleagues) are less likely to get injured performing their job.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you can't infer from the fact that belichick & fox drafted maroney & williams before white that he will be an utter failure in the pros

I never said that White would be "an utter failure":

I am open to the idea that White could be an impact NFL player if he rededicates himself to football but I will not touch him in drafts until I see proof that this has happened.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I think JohnnyU summed it up nicely:

Everyone has an opinion, you expressed yours, and I've expressed mine. I'm sure some teams had Williams and Maroney ranked higher because of ability, but if you think the obvious negatives about White didn't play a factor with a lot of teams in their evaluation of White, then I'm sure not going to be able to change your mind. I respect your opinion, but I think the warning signs are there for White. He could work out fine, but buyer beware.

Good luck with White and I hope you draft some good back-up RBs

 

[Bob_Magaw]

as was noted above, LT had level of competition concerns far more serious... so does deangelo, who was drafted ahead of white...

when scouts break down film of a RB & his attributes, they have to have the imagination to make educated guesses about how they would do against common opponents...

so your opinion is that white's numbers were inflated due to being in a weak conference & than when an example is brought forth showing how he did well against a non-pac 10 defense, you dismiss it as "just one game"... in the previous championship game in which USC destroyed oklahoma, white had 15-118 (7.9) & 2 TDs... guess that is "just two games" (just so happened to be the two biggest games of the 2004-2005 seasons)... it must be convenient in your world to dismiss evidence to the contrary of your view point as "unimportant"...

how many big games against non pac 10 opponents would he have to have before you would concede the point... 20-30-40? and what is your point here, really... its almost like you are suggesting white's success against texas was a fluke & didn't count... do you think he got lucky? if white played texas 10 times, do you have cause to think texas would have done any better in games 2-10? you may have a reason for thinking this, but you haven't stated it & i couldn't guess what it would be based on?

it is obfuscation to suggest that scouts don't base opinion on one game, when you know he put up historic numbers over the course of three seasons... that is what they call a body of work...

reggie bush has been dubbed by many observers as one of the best collegiate RBs EVER... funny how you don't hear many scouts knocking bush's stats because they came from the maligned pac 10? why do you think that is? because when you look at film of bush in fresno state game, & he makes a nasty sideline cutback move that only a few people on the planet could make, & only a few players in the history of the game would be capable of (sayers, sanders?), scouts can lift that ability out of the delimited context of that specific game & that weeks opponents... that would be hard to defend even if you had a time machine & got to go against the steel curtain circa seventies or monsters of the midway circa eighties...

white didn't have a history of injuries or missing games... then he gets a hamstring injury & now he is all of a sudden a slacker & grossly out of shape... you are entitled to whatever opinion you want, but if it doesn't fit the facts, it will be questioned... a single hamstring injury doesn't make a player a slacker or out of shape... & if he was able to do what he did dominating every level he has played at so far... all time state leader (CO) as star prep RB, than broke multiple school & conference rushing records in college, than i guess i want more out of shape dudes on my team...

this is reminiscent of when lincoln was told by some aghast union officials that general ulysses grant was a drunk... lincoln advised the officials to find out what he was drinking & send a barrell to the other generals...

one of the pac 10 records that white tied was rushing TDs in a season (23 i think) by corey dillon... he seemed to do OK despite coming from the maligned pac 10 conference...

RBs like marcus allen & OJ simpson were among the best RBs of their generation... white put up superior numbers in some respects... OJ & allen turned out to be decent prospects, & translated their collegiate skills from a "lesser" conference & fluorished in the NFL...

the amazing thing, which the detractors don't have an answer for, is that white put up his historic numbers, breaking school and conference rushing TD records for season & career... not only leaving a year early... but in a time share with bush all three seasons!

 

[acefootball]

as was noted above, LT had level of competition concerns far more serious... so does deangelo, who was drafted ahead of white...

when scouts break down film of a RB & his attributes, they have to have the imagination to make educated guesses about how they would do against common opponents...

so your opinion is that white's numbers were inflated due to being in a weak conference & than when an example is brought forth showing how he did well against a non-pac 10 defense, you dismiss it as "just one game"... in the previous championship game in which USC destroyed oklahoma, white had 15-118 (7.9) & 2 TDs... guess that is "just two games" (just so happened to be the two biggest games of the 2004-2005 seasons)... it must be convenient in your world to dismiss evidence to the contrary of your view point as "unimportant"...

how many big games against non pac 10 opponents would he have to have before you would concede the point... 20-30-40? and what is your point here, really... its almost like you are suggesting white's success against texas was a fluke & didn't count... do you think he got lucky? if white played texas 10 times, do you have cause to think texas would have done any better in games 2-10? you may have a reason for thinking this, but you haven't stated it & i couldn't guess what it would be based on?

it is obfuscation to suggest that scouts don't base opinion on one game, when you know he put up historic numbers over the course of three seasons... that is what they call a body of work...

reggie bush has been dubbed by many observers as one of the best collegiate RBs EVER... funny how you don't hear many scouts knocking bush's stats because they came from the maligned pac 10? why do you think that is? because when you look at film of bush in fresno state game, & he makes a nasty sideline cutback move that only a few people on the planet could make, & only a few players in the history of the game would be capable of (sayers, sanders?), scouts can lift that ability out of the delimited context of that specific game & that weeks opponents... that would be hard to defend even if you had a time machine & got to go against the steel curtain circa seventies or monsters of the midway circa eighties...

white didn't have a history of injuries or missing games... then he gets a hamstring injury & now he is all of a sudden a slacker & grossly out of shape... you are entitled to whatever opinion you want, but if it doesn't fit the facts, it will be questioned... a single hamstring injury doesn't make a player a slacker or out of shape... & if he was able to do what he did dominating every level he has played at so far... all time state leader (CO) as star prep RB, than broke multiple school & conference rushing records in college, than i guess i want more out of shape dudes on my team...

this is reminiscent of when lincoln was told by some aghast union officials that general ulysses grant was a drunk... lincoln advised the officials to find out what he was drinking & send a barrell to the other generals...

one of the pac 10 records that white tied was rushing TDs in a season (23 i think) by corey dillon... he seemed to do OK despite coming from the maligned pac 10 conference...

RBs like marcus allen & OJ simpson were among the best RBs of their generation... white put up superior numbers in some respects... OJ & allen turned out to be decent prospects, & translated their collegiate skills from a "lesser" conference & fluorished in the NFL...

the amazing thing, which the detractors don't have an answer for, is that white put up his historic numbers, breaking school and conference rushing TD records for season & career... not only leaving a year early... but in a time share with bush all three seasons!

What a great post, seriously.

 

[Rev]

If White landed in Denver or Pittsburgh would we be saying that he would be a bust?   NOPE

Had Addai ended up in Tennessee or Jacksonville would he be getting the praise..NOPE

So Addai ended up in a situation where on the surface it looks good, but I think that he will only be a 3rd down type of back (K Faulk). 

White had a injury which impacted his draft status.  And last I checked you do use your legs a little on the Bench Press, so if he was injured that would also explain why he only got 14 reps.  I am pretty sure that L White can do more than 14 reps when healthy.   It was just bad timing for a injury for L White.

-Addai is going to get the shot to carry the mail for the Colts, so the Kevin Faulk comparison will be inappropriate if he is able to perform well in that very desirable situation.-I lift weights alot, and have done upper body lifts with pulled muscles in my groin and/or hamstring. While many powerlifters use their legs in benching by elevating their but so as to use the lower pec more in the lift, this can be done without pain in the hamstring area, for the most part. Even if tensing up his legs in that way gave White some problems, no way does a pulled hammy take his bench total from the mid-20s to the mid-teens.

I like white alot, but his strength must improve to be successful in the NFL. I think if a strength coach works him really hard, White could be a beast, but he's not there yet.

The whole problem I have with that argument is that RBs typically don't rely on their arms nearly as much as their legs. White may not be much of a threat in the weight room, but he's the heaviest of this year's top RBs and he sure looks the most powerful when you watch him on the field. It was a lot of fun to see White work last season. You know how pundits and announcers talk about guys who wear down the defense and get stronger as the game goes on? It's usually a bunch of BS, but that's really what White did. Once USC started feeding him the ball in the second half of games, you could practically see the other team quit. He comes with a lot of risk, but he's the only RB in this class that I can see reaching the Shaun Alexander/Larry Johnson level (Bush is a better prospect, but a different kind of player).

I understand your point, but it doesn't negate the fact that White will need to be stronger to compete in the NFL. He's got the tools to be successful and showed good power in college, but between blocking NFL lineman, hanging on to the football when NFL defenders are trying to strip it, and stiff-arming NFL linebackers, he'll need a powerful upperbody as well. At the very least, he wont realize his ceiling unless he develops upper body power to compliment his lower body strength.

 

[gang-wars]

Does anyone have YAC (yards after contact) stats for the top 5 rbs?

White had some crazy number like 80% of his yards came after contact. I'm just wondering if that's impressive, or Addai had like 79% and it was just never mentioned.

 

[JohnnyU]

I think the whole point people are missing is that very few of us White supporters are coming out and saying that he's a "money in the bank" lock to be a star. I think the argument we're making is that every prospect has risk and that White represents a fair gamble at his present ADP. White is a second round NFL RB. From what I've seen, he's usually going 1.03 to 1.06 in rookie drafts. That doesn't seem like an incredible stretch. The fact is, every player that you pick has risk. Eric Shelton and JJ Arrington didn't have any character concerns last year. They both flopped miserably.

Without rehashing my reasons for White being a bust, it's almost a certainty that a few of the top RBs chosen in this draft will bust, so mine is White, and possibly Addai.

 

[a1ter3go]

Too much to catch up on in this thread, but wanted to add that based on White's situation he seems like the rookie RB most likely to have an opportunity to be very productive immediately.

I believe he will be the offensive rookie of the year.

 

[BigJim®]

Rather than starting up a brand new LenDale White "turd alert" I figured I'd just add this latest example of LenDale's immaturity to this existing thread. Per PFT:

LENDALE LASHED OUT AT TUAOLO

Last month, former NFL defensive lineman Esera Tuaolo was the first openly gay player to speak at the rookie symposium.

Asked one attendee during Tuaolo's session, "Is it offensive if I call you a ###### if you are a ######?" [Edited to add: deleted terms are derogatory term which rhymes with maggot and describe a homosexual preference]

Many readers were curious as to the identity of the person who asked the question. On Tuesday, we received a tip in this regard, and we then obtained confirmation from a league source.

The question, we're told, was posed by former USC tailback LenDale White, second-round draft pick of the Tennessee Titans.

White gained significant notoriety prior to the draft when he arrived at the USC Pro Day workout out of shape and unable to run. He didn't perform a 40-yard dash for scouts before April 29, and consequently fell out of the first round.

We suspect that there won't be much fallout from White's statement. If asked about it by anyone in the media, he'll surely deny it. Then, others who were in attendance surely will confirm it -- hopefully at some point on the record.

Heck, it could be a good idea for White to admit that he said it. It might go a long way toward building up his fan base in the red states, including the one in which he'll be playing his home games.

 

[sholditch]

Injuries, immaturity, weight, the warning signs are everywhere. No way I would take this guy over Addai. Obviously Bush, Maroney, Williams are going with the first 3 picks in most dynasty drafts, so it's those with the 1.4 that have the decision to make. For me, it's an easy decision. I wouldn't take White, even if I owned Brown.

Edited to say that I'm not implying he is injury prone, but he is injured, so it does need to be mentioned.

Weight: already downInjuries: a tweaked hammy that's already healed

Immaturity: don't really know what you're referring to here. If you are referring to his laying off the combine and pro day because he didn't want to injure his hammy further, then yeah, how immature. He should have pushed himself really hard and injured himself further.

Anyone can be a bust, but these arguments are completely bunk. Let's not forget that before the combine and pro-day, people were talking about him as the no. 2, possibly no.1 RB in the draft.

 

[BigJim®]

Immaturity: don't really know what you're referring to here.

FYI, this post was bumped due to an example. HTH.

 

[MLBrandow]

Good thing he runs with his legs and not his mouth?

Who cares? You really think he is the only person who shares those feelings in the NFL?

Isn't there a saying that goes something like judge based on what you do, not what you say.... (I'm terrible with cliches)

 

[sholditch]

Heck, it could be a good idea for White to admit that he said it.  It might go a long way toward building up his fan base in the red states, including the one in which he'll be playing his home games.

and speaking of offensive immaturity...seriously, as someone who has grown up in the south I recognize that there is some truth to this snide, supersilious comment, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a low blow, especially considering that its much more than red states signing gay marriage ammendments into their state consititutions (New York anyone?)

oh, and for the record, my conservative parents, everyone I know, and I, voted against it.

 

[LHUCKS]

Good thing he runs with his legs and not his mouth?

Who cares?  You really think he is the only person who shares those feelings in the NFL?

Like I said immediately after the NFL draft, the kid was the SOD it just might take a few years before all the haters realize it. Had he played anywhere besides USC behind Reggie Bush and in most other years he would have been a Heisman trophy winner and/or Doke Walker winner.

Pac10 = Conference of Champions

 

[sholditch]

Good thing he runs with his legs and not his mouth?

Who cares? You really think he is the only person who shares those feelings in the NFL?

Isn't there a saying that goes something like judge based on what you do, not what you say.... (I'm terrible with cliches)

All this shows is that he has the brass to speak up in front of all his fellow rookies. A little cockiness and self-confidence is not a bad thing. I also agree that likely at least 75% of that crowd was thinking the exact same thing. They're yong football players, not PC ambassadors.

 

[LHUCKS]

Good thing he runs with his legs and not his mouth?

Who cares?  You really think he is the only person who shares those feelings in the NFL?

Isn't there a saying that goes something like judge based on what you do, not what you say....  (I'm terrible with cliches)

All this shows is that he has the brass to speak up in front of all his fellow rookies. A little cockiness and self-confidence is not a bad thing. I also agree that likely at least 75% of that crowd was thinking the exact same thing. They're yong football players, not PC ambassadors.

When I first started working in the corporate/big firm world I said and did a lot of stupid ### things. LOL at all the false perfection on this board sometimes...what's wrong, didn't live up to your own expectations so you rag on 21 year olds that will make more money in the next ten years than you will in your lifetime?? onderthat:

 

[joffer]

Had he played anywhere besides USC i wouldn't be posting in this thread behind Reggie Bush and in most other years he would have been a Heisman trophy winner and/or Doke Walker winner.

 

[Blitzkrieg88]

Like I said immediately after the NFL draft, the kid was the SOD it just might take a few years before all the haters realize it. Had he played anywhere besides USC behind Reggie Bush and in most other years he would have been a Heisman trophy winner and/or Doke Walker winner.

Enough said... the kid was not even the best on his team.White = Bust

 

[BigJim®]

You really think he is the only person who shares those feelings in the NFL?

No, but he is seemingly the only one dumb and arrogant enough to publicly declare his ignorance at a rookie seminar, in a derogatory way, directly toward a speaker at that conference, with witnesses. To me that is several red flags waving in unison. People are going to feel differently on sexual preference. I'm fine with that. But this situation is no different than having a woman speaker at the rookie symposium on the prevalence of athlete domestic abuse and having some dunderhead raise his hand and ask her "Can I still slap my ##### up if she deserves it?" Only an imbecile would think he's being funny in that context.

 

[BigJim®]

Had he played anywhere besides USC i wouldn't be posting in this thread behind Reggie Bush and in most other years he would have been a Heisman trophy winner and/or Doke Walker winner.

 

[Traders2001]

I think he will be the most productive back coming out of this year`s draft and for years to come.

 

[Traders2001]

Like I said immediately after the NFL draft, the kid was the SOD it just might take a few years before all the haters realize it.  Had he played anywhere besides USC behind Reggie Bush and in most other years he would have been a Heisman trophy winner and/or Doke Walker winner. 

Enough said... the kid was not even the best on his team.White = Bust

In three years Bush will be a third down back and White will be lighting the scoreboard.White is the suited of the two for the NFL game ( by far )

 

[Z-Dog]

You really think he is the only person who shares those feelings in the NFL?

No, but he is seemingly the only one dumb and arrogant enough to publicly declare his ignorance at a rookie seminar, in a derogatory way, directly toward a speaker at that conference, with witnesses. To me that is several red flags waving in unison. People are going to feel differently on sexual preference. I'm fine with that. But this situation is no different than having a woman speaker at the rookie symposium on the prevalence of athlete domestic abuse and having some dunderhead raise his hand and ask her "Can I still slap my ##### up if she deserves it?" Only an imbecile would think he's being funny in that context.

The limited context of that quote makes it impossible to evaluate. It could have been entirely sincere. Certainly, lots of white people today remain confused about when, if or whether you can call a black person by the "N" word, for example. Similarly, when I was down in South Carolina, I was asked a number of interesting questions regarding my Jewishness, inclduing one by a really sweet older woman who was shocked that the saying "Jew you down on the price" was offensive. As a member of a minority, I'm used to people being misinformed about my beliefs and practices, or about what words might be offensive. It's not as obvious as you make it out to be. I don't know White's background, so I don't know if he was asking innocently or if he was trying to be a jerk about it, but it's just as easy for me to believe that he was taking advantage of a closed session on this topic to get answers he couldn't get anywhere else.Or he might really hate gay people. In which case he may become just the next southerner who hates gay people and is good at his job...

 

[sholditch]

Like I said immediately after the NFL draft, the kid was the SOD it just might take a few years before all the haters realize it.  Had he played anywhere besides USC behind Reggie Bush and in most other years he would have been a Heisman trophy winner and/or Doke Walker winner. 

Enough said... the kid was not even the best on his team.White = Bust

I guess the same logic would tell us what a horribnle bust Ronnie Brown was last year. Ohh, wait...

 

[gman8343]

Like I said immediately after the NFL draft, the kid was the SOD it just might take a few years before all the haters realize it.  Had he played anywhere besides USC behind Reggie Bush and in most other years he would have been a Heisman trophy winner and/or Doke Walker winner.  

Enough said... the kid was not even the best on his team.White = Bust

In three years Bush will be a third down back and White will be lighting the scoreboard.White is the suited of the two for the NFL game ( by far )

You'd think NFL scouts/GMs/Coaches would have been able to figure this out...

 

[sholditch]

You really think he is the only person who shares those feelings in the NFL?

No, but he is seemingly the only one dumb and arrogant enough to publicly declare his ignorance at a rookie seminar, in a derogatory way, directly toward a speaker at that conference, with witnesses. To me that is several red flags waving in unison. People are going to feel differently on sexual preference. I'm fine with that. But this situation is no different than having a woman speaker at the rookie symposium on the prevalence of athlete domestic abuse and having some dunderhead raise his hand and ask her "Can I still slap my ##### up if she deserves it?" Only an imbecile would think he's being funny in that context.

The limited context of that quote makes it impossible to evaluate. It could have been entirely sincere. Certainly, lots of white people today remain confused about when, if or whether you can call a black person by the "N" word, for example. Similarly, when I was down in South Carolina, I was asked a number of interesting questions regarding my Jewishness, inclduing one by a really sweet older woman who was shocked that the saying "Jew you down on the price" was offensive. As a member of a minority, I'm used to people being misinformed about my beliefs and practices, or about what words might be offensive. It's not as obvious as you make it out to be. I don't know White's background, so I don't know if he was asking innocently or if he was trying to be a jerk about it, but it's just as easy for me to believe that he was taking advantage of a closed session on this topic to get answers he couldn't get anywhere else.Or he might really hate gay people. In which case he may become just the next southerner who hates gay people and is good at his job...

Wow, that's priceless. You sit there talking about how tough it is when people assume things about you that aren't correct, yet in the next sentence you imply that people from the south hate gays. Very cosmopolitan my man. You're a pillar of open-mindedness.

 

[Z-Dog]

You really think he is the only person who shares those feelings in the NFL?

No, but he is seemingly the only one dumb and arrogant enough to publicly declare his ignorance at a rookie seminar, in a derogatory way, directly toward a speaker at that conference, with witnesses. To me that is several red flags waving in unison. People are going to feel differently on sexual preference. I'm fine with that. But this situation is no different than having a woman speaker at the rookie symposium on the prevalence of athlete domestic abuse and having some dunderhead raise his hand and ask her "Can I still slap my ##### up if she deserves it?" Only an imbecile would think he's being funny in that context.

The limited context of that quote makes it impossible to evaluate. It could have been entirely sincere. Certainly, lots of white people today remain confused about when, if or whether you can call a black person by the "N" word, for example. Similarly, when I was down in South Carolina, I was asked a number of interesting questions regarding my Jewishness, inclduing one by a really sweet older woman who was shocked that the saying "Jew you down on the price" was offensive. As a member of a minority, I'm used to people being misinformed about my beliefs and practices, or about what words might be offensive. It's not as obvious as you make it out to be. I don't know White's background, so I don't know if he was asking innocently or if he was trying to be a jerk about it, but it's just as easy for me to believe that he was taking advantage of a closed session on this topic to get answers he couldn't get anywhere else.Or he might really hate gay people. In which case he may become just the next southerner who hates gay people and is good at his job...

Wow, that's priceless. You sit there talking about how tough it is when people assume things about you that aren't correct, yet in the next sentence you imply that people from the south hate gays. Very cosmopolitan my man. You're a pillar of open-mindedness.

Is my implication incorrect? I'm not assuming anything. I can post survey after survey that indicates that the south, as a region, is far less accepting of and far more hostile to homosexuals than the Northeast. If Lendale white was pro-gay, he would be out of tune with the people around him. I personally think that disliking gays is a perfectly legitimate position, even if it's not my own.

 

[sholditch]

You really think he is the only person who shares those feelings in the NFL?

No, but he is seemingly the only one dumb and arrogant enough to publicly declare his ignorance at a rookie seminar, in a derogatory way, directly toward a speaker at that conference, with witnesses. To me that is several red flags waving in unison. People are going to feel differently on sexual preference. I'm fine with that. But this situation is no different than having a woman speaker at the rookie symposium on the prevalence of athlete domestic abuse and having some dunderhead raise his hand and ask her "Can I still slap my ##### up if she deserves it?" Only an imbecile would think he's being funny in that context.

The limited context of that quote makes it impossible to evaluate. It could have been entirely sincere. Certainly, lots of white people today remain confused about when, if or whether you can call a black person by the "N" word, for example. Similarly, when I was down in South Carolina, I was asked a number of interesting questions regarding my Jewishness, inclduing one by a really sweet older woman who was shocked that the saying "Jew you down on the price" was offensive. As a member of a minority, I'm used to people being misinformed about my beliefs and practices, or about what words might be offensive. It's not as obvious as you make it out to be. I don't know White's background, so I don't know if he was asking innocently or if he was trying to be a jerk about it, but it's just as easy for me to believe that he was taking advantage of a closed session on this topic to get answers he couldn't get anywhere else.Or he might really hate gay people. In which case he may become just the next southerner who hates gay people and is good at his job...

Wow, that's priceless. You sit there talking about how tough it is when people assume things about you that aren't correct, yet in the next sentence you imply that people from the south hate gays. Very cosmopolitan my man. You're a pillar of open-mindedness.

Is my implication incorrect? I'm not assuming anything. I can post survey after survey that indicates that the south, as a region, is far less accepting of and far more hostile to homosexuals than the Northeast. If Lendale white was pro-gay, he would be out of tune with the people around him. I personally think that disliking gays is a perfectly legitimate position, even if it's not my own.

Whatever. No, it's not correct. At least not to my experience, and I have lived here my entire life almost. For instance, Birmingham, the consensus hotbad of irrational prejudice, just hosted a gay and lesbian film festival. Sure, I bet New England has a better track record according to some surveys. Show me one that says Arizona, or Texas (not the south in case you didn't know), or Ohio or Nebraska is any better. Point is, (and we are getting way off football) is that your post implies that the south is some hotbed of anti-homosexuality when in truth it is no better or no worse than 90% of the country. If you think that it's somehow fundamentally different to make assumptions about a person or people based on ethnicity rather than geographical heritage, fine, but it's not.But whatever, the subjest is Lendale, and I really don't see how his views of gays affects his performance on the field at all. If the point is that he's immature, well, wow, and immature NFL rookie.

 

[CA_7]

This is not going to end well....

 

[BigRed]

GB an FF thread digressing into a catfight about homos.

 

[sholditch]

Don't worry I've said my peace. Honestly I might be drinking koolaid but the more I look at TEN's sched, Fisher's position, and White's overall abilities, I am thinking he could be a second half-savior that could catapult many teams into the Championship game. He should, like LJ, be the freshest legs on the field to borrow a soccer term, and have a great momentum going into fantasy playoffs. The titans will be so out of it (and by this point there is no way that CB isn't majorly dinged up) he will be getting 20-25 cpg and should have every opportunity to make a meaningful fantasy contribution.

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

Heck, it could be a good idea for White to admit that he said it.  It might go a long way toward building up his fan base in the red states, including the one in which he'll be playing his home games.

and speaking of offensive immaturity...seriously, as someone who has grown up in the south I recognize that there is some truth to this snide, supersilious comment, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a low blow, especially considering that its much more than red states signing gay marriage ammendments into their state consititutions (New York anyone?)

oh, and for the record, my conservative parents, everyone I know, and I, voted against it.

I'm interested in if making an Avatar of two cheerleaders caught having sex in a bathroom stall shows emotional maturity? Seems ironic to bash Lendale for making comments when you're seemingly making a statement of some sort with an Avatar. btw What point are you making with that avatar?

 

[sholditch]

He likes Lesbian cheerleaders? But hey, who doesn't?

Also, since I'm kinda new here, I want to say that I don't think that there's no room to make fun of the south. Trust me, there's plenty, more than most people know. I just feel a duty to point out hypocrisy. And to champion my fifth-round dynasty pick as the future GOAT.

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

hmmm I'd have to rank Bi-Sexual ones higher....jmo though...

edit- just a joke..don't get your panties in a bunch...

btw from sounds of what transpired it probably gave Lendale reason to pause when room didn't approve...perhaps he's use to a football locker room atmosphere that was less enlightened and crude behavior was more acceptable. Props to NFL in attempts to change it at Pro Level. I do think to encourage dialog what is said at rookie orientation should stay at rookie orientation..not get leaked to media..kids gotta learn somewhere and somehow. Growing pains involved are unavoidable.

 

[sholditch]

hmmm I'd have to rank Bi-Sexual ones higher....jmo though...

sure, in a perfect world

 

[MLBrandow]

Like I said immediately after the NFL draft, the kid was the SOD it just might take a few years before all the haters realize it.  Had he played anywhere besides USC behind Reggie Bush and in most other years he would have been a Heisman trophy winner and/or Doke Walker winner.  

Enough said... the kid was not even the best on his team.White = Bust

I guess the same logic would tell us what a horribnle bust Ronnie Brown was last year. Ohh, wait...

don't compare the two. White is much, much, much better than RB.

 

[sholditch]

Man, this bust thread has turned into the biggest kool-aid convention ever. My new predictions for White:

2,000 yards, 25 TDs, and brings peace and harmony to the globe by week 3.

 

[BigJim®]

You really think he is the only person who shares those feelings in the NFL?

No, but he is seemingly the only one dumb and arrogant enough to publicly declare his ignorance at a rookie seminar, in a derogatory way, directly toward a speaker at that conference, with witnesses. To me that is several red flags waving in unison. People are going to feel differently on sexual preference. I'm fine with that. But this situation is no different than having a woman speaker at the rookie symposium on the prevalence of athlete domestic abuse and having some dunderhead raise his hand and ask her "Can I still slap my ##### up if she deserves it?" Only an imbecile would think he's being funny in that context.

The limited context of that quote makes it impossible to evaluate. It could have been entirely sincere. Certainly, lots of white people today remain confused about when, if or whether you can call a black person by the "N" word, for example. Similarly, when I was down in South Carolina, I was asked a number of interesting questions regarding my Jewishness, inclduing one by a really sweet older woman who was shocked that the saying "Jew you down on the price" was offensive. As a member of a minority, I'm used to people being misinformed about my beliefs and practices, or about what words might be offensive. It's not as obvious as you make it out to be. I don't know White's background, so I don't know if he was asking innocently or if he was trying to be a jerk about it, but it's just as easy for me to believe that he was taking advantage of a closed session on this topic to get answers he couldn't get anywhere else.Or he might really hate gay people. In which case he may become just the next southerner who hates gay people and is good at his job...

Wow, that's priceless. You sit there talking about how tough it is when people assume things about you that aren't correct, yet in the next sentence you imply that people from the south hate gays. Very cosmopolitan my man. You're a pillar of open-mindedness.

Is my implication incorrect? I'm not assuming anything. I can post survey after survey that indicates that the south, as a region, is far less accepting of and far more hostile to homosexuals than the Northeast. If Lendale white was pro-gay, he would be out of tune with the people around him. I personally think that disliking gays is a perfectly legitimate position, even if it's not my own.

Whatever. No, it's not correct. At least not to my experience, and I have lived here my entire life almost. For instance, Birmingham, the consensus hotbad of irrational prejudice, just hosted a gay and lesbian film festival. Sure, I bet New England has a better track record according to some surveys. Show me one that says Arizona, or Texas (not the south in case you didn't know), or Ohio or Nebraska is any better. Point is, (and we are getting way off football) is that your post implies that the south is some hotbed of anti-homosexuality when in truth it is no better or no worse than 90% of the country. If you think that it's somehow fundamentally different to make assumptions about a person or people based on ethnicity rather than geographical heritage, fine, but it's not.But whatever, the subjest is Lendale, and I really don't see how his views of gays affects his performance on the field at all. If the point is that he's immature, well, wow, and immature NFL rookie.

Hey, we're getting off track here. Let's please try to focus on whether or not LW is a turd.TIA

 

[sholditch]

read ending of post you quoted, and following posts. Also, weren't you the one that brought in a socio-political discussion into a bust thread? Bringing up a comment that has absolutely no bearing on one's football ability was the first non-sequiter. Others followed. Now you say we should focus. Nice.

Given Tennessee's sched, he will have all the opportunity he needs at the end of the season, gay-pride boycotts notwithstanding. Of course, if the common psychological construct is true, LenDale's comments mean that he is actually gay, in which case he might have quit the NFL to join an all-men's chorus by that time. With his weight he should make an excellent baritone. But aside from that, LenDale is now a firm lock for 3,000 yards and 45 TDs.

 

[BigJim®]

Heck, it could be a good idea for White to admit that he said it.  It might go a long way toward building up his fan base in the red states, including the one in which he'll be playing his home games.

and speaking of offensive immaturity...seriously, as someone who has grown up in the south I recognize that there is some truth to this snide, supersilious comment, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a low blow, especially considering that its much more than red states signing gay marriage ammendments into their state consititutions (New York anyone?)

oh, and for the record, my conservative parents, everyone I know, and I, voted against it.

I'm interested in if making an Avatar of two cheerleaders caught having sex in a bathroom stall shows emotional maturity? Seems ironic to bash Lendale for making comments when you're seemingly making a statement of some sort with an Avatar. btw What point are you making with that avatar?

So basically, appreciating catfights and lesbian cheerleaders is sort of like calling a homosexual a ######, or some other derogatory name, to his face?Guy, you can't be serious. I'd keep the day job if you're looking at getting into the analogy business.

 

[Biabreakable]

GB an FF thread digressing into a catfight about homos.

Not that theres anything wrong with that.

 

[sholditch]

Heck, it could be a good idea for White to admit that he said it.  It might go a long way toward building up his fan base in the red states, including the one in which he'll be playing his home games.

and speaking of offensive immaturity...seriously, as someone who has grown up in the south I recognize that there is some truth to this snide, supersilious comment, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a low blow, especially considering that its much more than red states signing gay marriage ammendments into their state consititutions (New York anyone?)

oh, and for the record, my conservative parents, everyone I know, and I, voted against it.

I'm interested in if making an Avatar of two cheerleaders caught having sex in a bathroom stall shows emotional maturity? Seems ironic to bash Lendale for making comments when you're seemingly making a statement of some sort with an Avatar. btw What point are you making with that avatar?

So basically, appreciating catfights and lesbian cheerleaders is sort of like calling a homosexual a ######, or some other derogatory name, to his face?Guy, you can't be serious. I'd keep the day job if you're looking at getting into the analogy business.

seriously, let's try and stay on topic here...

sorry, couldn't resist

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

Heck, it could be a good idea for White to admit that he said it.  It might go a long way toward building up his fan base in the red states, including the one in which he'll be playing his home games.

and speaking of offensive immaturity...seriously, as someone who has grown up in the south I recognize that there is some truth to this snide, supersilious comment, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a low blow, especially considering that its much more than red states signing gay marriage ammendments into their state consititutions (New York anyone?)

oh, and for the record, my conservative parents, everyone I know, and I, voted against it.

I'm interested in if making an Avatar of two cheerleaders caught having sex in a bathroom stall shows emotional maturity? Seems ironic to bash Lendale for making comments when you're seemingly making a statement of some sort with an Avatar. btw What point are you making with that avatar?

So basically, appreciating catfights and lesbian cheerleaders is sort of like calling a homosexual a ######, or some other derogatory name, to his face?Guy, you can't be serious. I'd keep the day job if you're looking at getting into the analogy business.

Catfight? Ummm I believe those are MUG SHOTS taken because of an alleged Assault. Physical violence is insignificant vs using Laungauge that is out of date and no longer Politically correct? Laws against assault for a reason..even if it is Girl on Girl crime that is somehow a primative turn on for some/many/most males (especially if done with hotter babes coreographed professionally into a Bud Light Commercial )

EDIT- In short... Lighten up on Lendale for being a bit ignorant. This isn't Chris Henry stuff. Lendale could have already learned a lesson by how his peers reacted to his comment.

 

[joffer]

 

[Z-Dog]

I think we lost focus when we started trying to project White on the basis of comments he may or may not have made at a rookie symposium.

 

[BigJim®]

read ending of post you quoted, and following posts. Also, weren't you the one that brought in a socio-political discussion into a bust thread? Bringing up a comment that has absolutely no bearing on one's football ability was the first non-sequiter. Others followed. Now you say we should focus. Nice.

First off, I think it's a little silly to get bent out of shape over my hijack comment. No, I don't see what one guy getting mad about another's suggestion about the southern U.S. has to do with LenDale White, but I was in fact making light of it. Back to White, I added this alleged situation to the White discussion because I do think character bears on odds of success. In fact, my only concern about LenDale is that he'll do something stupid (i.e. showing up at camp next year at 270) or say something stupid the first time he gets an ESPN mic in his face, that will limit his potential, or cause him to fall out of favor. I can count on one hand the number of people in this entire thread who are discounting White because they feel he's a bad running back. To me it's all hinging on whether this guy starts acting like a professional. If I had to bet one way or another, I'd bet against it today.