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31 minutes ago, lod001 said:

I don't think anyone can believe this guy is going to do anything but take a franchise down at this point. He had everything as far as weapons and failed miserably. He's not even backup material.

The Bucs are really lucky he showed how awful he is before they had to commit to flushing 20 more million down the toilet. Now they can concentrate their efforts on scouting the college ranks for a franchise QB.

#1 draft pick super bust.

let's not put him up there as jamarcus russell superbust

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Similar to when I was a teenager, I was "methodical" in my pursuit of Christie Brinkley. 

Bury low.

Winston has more completions to Saints players than Taysom Hill does in his career. I like the fit a ton. 

On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2015 at 8:13 PM, Capella said:

Lol. He's got a lot of posts to delete.

Man, you can pick just about any page on this thread and there are gems galore. Someone needs to start deleting their posts but it sure is not me. :lmao: 

Good thing this thread will be here for a little while before it fades away like this guys career. Well, his career came crashing down in a heap actually, as predicted.

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Crap, I just needed him to maintain through Luck's bye week.

I don't see how you can possibly start either QB until this situation shakes itself out. And they're @Carolina next week so it may get worse before it gets better.

Edited by zftcg
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7 minutes ago, oddsbodkins said:

I'm debating dropping him for Fitzpatrick and using up my remaining FAAB. Of course, I think it's more likely they stick with Jameis because the coach isn't making this decision. They bench Winston, it's over. I think I have to stick with him...

Get out! GET OUT! GET THE F### OUT OF HERE!

Seriously, I think the whole situation is a stay-away. How can you ever be sure either one of them will finish a game? Plus a tough match-up coming @ Carolina next week. Cut your losses and find someone else. Anyone else.

I dropped Jameis for Mayfield.

 

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On 10/24/2018 at 4:17 PM, Grahamburn said:

It's just this negative stigma.  He played extremely well against Atlanta, but the fans bash him because of the two interceptions and blame him for the loss.  They then refuse to acknowledge neither turnover cost the team points and Winston drove the offense for scores on subsequent drives.  Then he compiles the most yards by any player in the NFL this week and they want to bury him again for two turnovers that weren't his fault after he leads the team on 3 TD drives and TWO game winning FG drives.  That dime to DeSean was a rope after taking two sacks to give Catanzaro a chance to redeem himself in OT.

The dude brought a lot of it on himself, but there isn't a whole lot of objectivity about his actual play on the field.  He's only 24.  When Drew Brees was 24 he threw 11 TD's and 15 INT's. 

This fan base is going to run him out of town and he's going to have a great career somewhere else.  It's frustrating.

I'm only quoting you with respect to the objectivity, which I think is challenging because his play has been (and remains) an extremely broad spectrum of outcomes. Yes he's 24 but he also has 20 more NFL starts than Brees had at that age. That data point and comparison is neither here nor there really. The point is, when do you turn the page from "he's got a bright future" to "he is what he is"?

Ironically, I think he and Fitzmagic are two sides of the same coin, separated more by age than anything else. One is a "journeyman backup" and the other is still a conversation with respect to an NFL franchise making a significant commitment to him. At this point, anything remotely close to a Brees career arc is probably off the table. I would bet it looks a lot more like Fitz's.

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13 minutes ago, zftcg said:

Get out! GET OUT! GET THE F### OUT OF HERE!

Seriously, I think the whole situation is a stay-away. How can you ever be sure either one of them will finish a game? Plus a tough match-up coming @ Carolina next week. Cut your losses and find someone else. Anyone else.

I dropped Jameis for Mayfield.

 

I have Dak, who is slightly trending up but trying to make a deal for Brady involving picks.

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45 minutes ago, habsfan said:

I'm only quoting you with respect to the objectivity, which I think is challenging because his play has been (and remains) an extremely broad spectrum of outcomes. Yes he's 24 but he also has 20 more NFL starts than Brees had at that age. That data point and comparison is neither here nor there really. The point is, when do you turn the page from "he's got a bright future" to "he is what he is"?

Ironically, I think he and Fitzmagic are two sides of the same coin, separated more by age than anything else. One is a "journeyman backup" and the other is still a conversation with respect to an NFL franchise making a significant commitment to him. At this point, anything remotely close to a Brees career arc is probably off the table. I would bet it looks a lot more like Fitz's.

Today certainly isn't the day for me to look at it objectively.  I think he's probably done in Tampa at this point.  His 5th year option is only guaranteed for injury.  It wouldn't surprise me if he was inactive the rest of the season.

If they give him another opportunity I hope he succeeds with it, but at this point I wouldn't expect him to.  He looks lost.  He missed the first 3 games and still leads the NFL in turnovers.

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16 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Today certainly isn't the day for me to look at it objectively.  I think he's probably done in Tampa at this point.  His 5th year option is only guaranteed for injury.  It wouldn't surprise me if he was inactive the rest of the season.

If they give him another opportunity I hope he succeeds with it, but at this point I wouldn't expect him to.  He looks lost.  He missed the first 3 games and still leads the NFL in turnovers.

Really?

Tampa has a half a season to figure out what they have.  Can't do that with him inactive.  They aren't making the playoffs.  Even if Fitz is better, are you hitching your wagon to him going forward?  And if Fitz is better, every win he gets just makes it that much more difficult to draft a QB next year.

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4 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Really?

Tampa has a half a season to figure out what they have.  Can't do that with him inactive.  They aren't making the playoffs.  Even if Fitz is better, are you hitching your wagon to him going forward?  And if Fitz is better, every win he gets just makes it that much more difficult to draft a QB next year.

I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me.  If they start Winston and he gets hurt they're on the hook for $20M next year.  They could make Fitzpatrick the starter for this year and next.  It's a bad draft for QBs anyway.  Mariota may be available soon.  Teddy Bridgewater.  Fitzpatrick has looked nails with these weapons.  I wanted to see Winston with the same personnel and I have.  He's laid an egg.

I've defended him to no end.  Maybe it's just the bad taste still being there from this game, but he looks inept out there sometimes and I don't know how it's going to get better.

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2 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Really?

Tampa has a half a season to figure out what they have.  Can't do that with him inactive.  They aren't making the playoffs.  Even if Fitz is better, are you hitching your wagon to him going forward?  And if Fitz is better, every win he gets just makes it that much more difficult to draft a QB next year.

Both Winston and Koetter have been there since 2015. 

Seems like the figuring out process should be wrapping up by now.

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8 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Really?

Tampa has a half a season to figure out what they have.  Can't do that with him inactive.  They aren't making the playoffs.  Even if Fitz is better, are you hitching your wagon to him going forward?  And if Fitz is better, every win he gets just makes it that much more difficult to draft a QB next year.

They have a 47 game/start sample size already. Are eight more really going to clear things up?

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3 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me.  If they start Winston and he gets hurt they're on the hook for $20M next year.  They could make Fitzpatrick the starter for this year and next.  It's a bad draft for QBs anyway.  Mariota may be available soon.  Teddy Bridgewater.  Fitzpatrick has looked nails with these weapons.  I wanted to see Winston with the same personnel and I have.  He's laid an egg.

I've defended him to no end.  Maybe it's just the bad taste still being there from this game, but he looks inept out there sometimes and I don't know how it's going to get better.

Let's not forget Fitz has tossed a few INTs in games as well. So why does Winston get benched & Fitz is suddenly perfect? Poor coaching & management in TB IMO

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1 minute ago, davearm said:

Both Winston and Koetter have been there since 2015. 

Seems like the figuring out process should be wrapping up by now.

I don't know.  He was hurt last year and the suspension this year probably didn't help.  If I'm Tampa, I'm not cutting a #1 pick at QB until I'm 110% sure he's a wash out.

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1 minute ago, NeverEnough said:

Let's not forget Fitz has tossed a few INTs in games as well. So why does Winston get benched & Fitz is suddenly perfect? Poor coaching & management in TB IMO

The only difference between the two in my mind is one is an ideal "caretaker/transitional" QB and the other will be looking for a fresh start to continue his career as a starter.

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As a Panther's fan, I'd love nothing more than the Winston pick to set the franchise back a decade.  I also love watching Fitz chuck it all over the field and win me dfs cash.  The reality is that Tampa would be stupid to pull the plug at this point.

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I wonder if Winston is getting shopped around w/ the trade deadline tomorrow.

Everyone was talking up Carr as a trade candidate, Winston would likely be easier to move given his contract. 

Edited by eNdblu
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40 minutes ago, eNdblu said:

I wonder if Winston is getting shopped around w/ the trade deadline tomorrow.

Everyone was talking up Carr as a trade candidate, Winston would likely be easier to move given his contract. 

What’s a realistic offer and team fit? Tough to trade him after that performance. 

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6 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

What’s a realistic offer and team fit? Tough to trade him after that performance. 

49ers? 4th round pick?

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7 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

What’s a realistic offer and team fit? Tough to trade him after that performance. 

Maybe Dolphins or Jags? Both are in the playoff race.

Maybe NYG if they decide to pull the plug on Eli and feel that Winston can help speed up their rebuild?

I'm sure that there's a GM that feels like Winston can perform under the right circumstances...  I mean look at Bradford. He's been conning teams with his draft status and untapped potential for years.

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1 hour ago, BassNBrew said:

I don't know.  He was hurt last year and the suspension this year probably didn't help.  If I'm Tampa, I'm not cutting a #1 pick at QB until I'm 110% sure he's a wash out.

He has lost the ball 90 times in 45 games at what point do you say enough is enough? As stated above, TB is on the hook for $21M if Winston gets hurt. I think we've seen the last of Jamies this season in Tampa.

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6 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

What’s a realistic offer and team fit? Tough to trade him after that performance. 

Don't think it would be hard to trade him at all if they are inclined and I think people would be surprised what he'd draw back.

Jags, Giants and Dolphins.

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The Giants are a dumpster fire right now, so adding Winston would only add fuel to the fire. I think the Giants will be patient on big moves since they have failed on their Keep Eli as QB/Shurmur hire/Sign Odell long-term decisions.

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I don't think a guy that would very likely struggle to pick up a new playbook would be a better option than Bortles, Tannehill or Osweiler.

It'd be so Giants to move on from Eli to Winston.  It'd be hard to top last year's trainwreck, but this would have a good shot at it.

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Uhhhhh, the Bucs know what they have in Winston. They knew what they had coming into this season but hoped it magically turned around. He had a couple great games last season vs Buffalo and Atlanta where he played remarkedly better football. He wasn't turning it over, he was checking it down, he was going through is reads.

But those games have been the exception going back to FSU.

The reality is that Winston's RS FS season was an anomaly. I said this on the last page: WInston has been very consistent: he's great on intermediate throws, he is inaccurate on the quick game and can't lead WRs (which is why he had ~1/2 the YAC of Fitz), he can't hit the deep ball, he turns the ball over at a high rate on overthrows and wrong reads, he struggles to identify the defense in general, he's not afraid to make any throw which leads to great plays and lots of stupid ones, he holds on to the ball too long, he can be mobile at times, he takes too many hits...

I'll give a short example: there's a Bucs fan I know who breaks down the All22. He'd show film of Koetter making great play calls last year with a C3 beater on the left and a man beater on the right. The team would be in C3 but Winston would fail to make the pre-snap read and go to the right and have to force a tight throw. And at times he'd throw a dime and it would be great.

But this is exactly who Winston has been since his sophomore year at FSU. Everyone knows who he is because he's never changed. People (and the Bucs) were just deluding themselves.

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Winston is toasted... I mean... he should be officially done in TBB.  He had a golden opportunity to attack Bengals' porous defense with his talent offensive play-makers and he failed miserably.   What TBB really need a competent and smart system manager as QB to utilize TBB's talent receivers. 

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2 hours ago, Dark Matter said:

He has lost the ball 90 times in 45 games at what point do you say enough is enough? As stated above, TB is on the hook for $21M if Winston gets hurt. I think we've seen the last of Jamies this season in Tampa.

Agree with this. They probably shouldn't have benched Fitzpatrick in the first place. The coaches are coaching for their jobs, Fitzpatrick wins games, including the only win over the Saints all season. The players prefer Fitzpatrick as well. I really can't see a single reason to start Winston, and it makes far more sense to trade him, or possibly even make him a healthy scratch.

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Just now, squistion said:

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago

#Bucs coach Dirk Koetter announces his QB decision: Ryan Fitzpatrick will start on Sunday. So Jameis Winston to the bench.

Shocking.  The pendulum swings the other way..again

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I love how I get mocked for my predictions, but since people dont want to give my my due, I'll do it myself. ;-)
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/706195-official-jameis-winston-football-talk/?page=113&tab=comments#comment-21439079

the links below are not good predictions...
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/706195-official-jameis-winston-football-talk/?do=findComment&comment=21440735
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/706195-official-jameis-winston-football-talk/?do=findComment&comment=21440604
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/706195-official-jameis-winston-football-talk/?do=findComment&comment=21441564

Edited by tackle for loss
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3 minutes ago, oddsbodkins said:

Fellow Winston owners, are we adding Fitz or looking elsewhere? I only have Mariota, Rosen, Tannehill, Keenum and Eli in my league available.

Ouch. I'd rather gamble on Fitzpatrick, but there's a major concern he'll get yanked again. But Eli or Rosen as the alternatives? I'll take my chances. 

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3 minutes ago, oddsbodkins said:

Fellow Winston owners, are we adding Fitz or looking elsewhere? I only have Mariota, Rosen, Tannehill, Keenum and Eli in my league available.

Easily prefer Fitz to any of those guys. As bad as Winston was, he was still a viable QB1, while its unrealistic to assume Fitz plays as well as he did the first month of the season, even counting the Bears benching, only Mahomes had more points the first 4 weeks. 

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On 9/26/2018 at 10:57 AM, doeseatplace said:

I'm struggling to understand why people just don't get this.  He passed for 325+ yds and/or 3 TDs in 7 of 11 full, healthy games last year, with a less experienced receiving corps and a similarly putrid running game. 

Koetter is making the right call sticking with the hot hand over a player who hasn't been with the team for three weeks, but there is no reason to believe this offense is going to crap if a QB switch is made

Well, I guess there is one reason.....?

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10 minutes ago, oddsbodkins said:

Fellow Winston owners, are we adding Fitz or looking elsewhere? I only have Mariota, Rosen, Tannehill, Keenum and Eli in my league available.

I picked up Baker (though I only need a one-week fill-in). Tampa has a tough match-up at Carolina this week. Also, I rode this rollercoaster last year with Tyrod. How can you feel comfortable starting a QB if you're never sure he'll be allowed to finish the game?

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39 minutes ago, tackle for loss said:

I have no idea who you are, but I grew up on Barry Sanders. Pretend like you've been right before, save the celebrations for the guys who just scored their first and last TDs.

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34 minutes ago, Hilts said:

Ouch. I'd rather gamble on Fitzpatrick, but there's a major concern he'll get yanked again. But Eli or Rosen as the alternatives? I'll take my chances. 

If he plays semi-well and doesn't get injured I'd say he's the guy from here on out.

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53 minutes ago, tackle for loss said:

I love how I get mocked for my predictions, but since people dont want to give my my due, I'll do it myself. ?
 

You have 60 posts.  You couldn't possibly have been mocked much.

Nobody knows who you are.  

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52 minutes ago, oddsbodkins said:

Fellow Winston owners, are we adding Fitz or looking elsewhere? I only have Mariota, Rosen, Tannehill, Keenum and Eli in my league available.

I own Winston in 1 keeper & will be putting in a ww claim to drop him for Fitz. I only need a QB for Goff's bye.

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On his short interception over the middle -- I think it was the 4th one, not sure -- did anyone else notice #69 (Dotson?) look back at Jameis, after the INT, like WTF??? And then throw his arms up in the air?  He did it quickly because he had to go and try to tackle the guy but it was funny.  He'd definitely had enough.

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11 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

dead wrong on this guy. cutting bait. back to Goff, begging him to take me back

While I agree many of us may have been wrong on Jameis the QB, I still stand by what many of us alluded to back earlier in this and the Fitz thread. Dan, I don't think its right to think you were "dead wrong", as the situation is still the same.

We WERE NOT wrong on the situation.  That defense will still lead to a great scenario for FF and numbers.

I had Wilson in 2 leagues where I own Jameis (because I liked Wilson's playoff matchups better), and in the other league I went and quickly snapped Fitz again.  In the 2 leagues where I have Wilson, I should still be close enough to roll with him from here on out. But in the one league I grabbed Fitz again, I need to start swinging for the fences.

Its still a recipe for big numbers in TB, regardless of who is the QB there. 

The only issue now is, you have to think there is always the possibility of either one of these guys being pulled (or put in) at any time.

(On a personal note - I will lose one of my matchups this week by roughly one point and you have to think if Winston was left in, he would have given me plenty to overcome that. I will lose yet another close one, by less than 10 points there too.)  So take it firsthand that these benchings can cost us wins and losses.  It may very well cost me a playoff shot in one league.

Regardless of how this transpires, this will always be in the back of my mind if I trot out either one of these guys.

This is going to be interesting for sure.

 

TZM

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