Hankmoody
Footballguy
I didn't say Wilson for Adams straight up was realistic for the Jets you're making a huge leap with your inference. I was comparing the difference between fantasy value and NFL value and ways that impact one but not the other.
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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
zamboni
Footballguy
To me, the idea of Devante is much better than actually getting him based on what they will probably have to fork over. Honestly, I'm not sure we need Devante, we just need a big upgrade from what they have with Lazard/Gipson/Cobb, etc. I doubt they'll pony up for a Tee Higgins, but a Mike Evans, Hollywood Brown, Gabe Davis or Calvin Ridley type of free agent might be a nice counterpart if the dollars work.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Jets won 7 games with some of the worst quarterbacking ever. I really don't think the weapons are as big of an issue as some in here. I'm not against signing a free agent or drafting a WR, but with limited resources, it shouldn't be the main driver of the offseason.
zamboni
Footballguy
Totally agree - WR depth is probably lower than other needs, but it still all weaves together. Teams can and have been bracketing Garrett (how he nearly got to 100 receptions is impressive in and of itself) and that has been stagnating the offense no matter who is back there. A few more credible options beyond Breece and Garrett can make the offense a lot more effective/efficient.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Im mostly connecting the dots to Devante based on the AR factor but I agree that they dont have to go get a top WR. They literally had nothing outside of GW so any competent WR would be great. JD usually fills the gaping holes in FA so hes not locked into a position in the draft - I predict he'll sign or trade for a #2 WR as well as fill the OL before the draft so they can be flexible with drafting either a WR or OL. Even JD has to know going defense in the 1st rd of this draft would be crazy.
sheerterror
Footballguy
Knowing you've gotta replace 2-3 starters on the O line with limited draft capital, while also keeping the same notoriously bad OL coach and just randomly hoping that things will get better, is IMO going to turn into yet another "how the F did JD let this happen again?" moment. Credit to the Giants for grabbing the Raiders OL coach, a Dante Scarnecchia disciple, because they knew they needed to make changes in addition to personnel to try to improve.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The year Belichick and Carroll are fired the Jets won’t even fire their o-line coach. It’s comical on so many levels.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
This is where Woody get his rep - I do think for the most part he lets his football people make decisions - but he brings in questionable people and then refuses to move on when its clear they arent working.
sheerterror
Footballguy
saw a good tweet earlier that I'm sure some of you came across:
"Worst 5 teams in the NFL in 2021
1. Jags 3-14
2. Lions 3-13-1
3. Texans 4-13
4. Jets 4-13
5. Giants 4-13
In the 2 years since, not only have 4 of those teams made the playoffs, but they have all won playoff games. Rebuilds don't take decades."
Yes they do, if you're the Jest.
"Worst 5 teams in the NFL in 2021
1. Jags 3-14
2. Lions 3-13-1
3. Texans 4-13
4. Jets 4-13
5. Giants 4-13
In the 2 years since, not only have 4 of those teams made the playoffs, but they have all won playoff games. Rebuilds don't take decades."
Yes they do, if you're the Jest.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Maybe the Jets should be America's Team.
zamboni
Footballguy
They tried with Hard Knocks - was great for the first three plays
NYRAGE
Footballguy
It took my NY Rangers 54 years to win the Stanley Cup. I'm fully convinced that the Jets will need at least 108 years. One of you younger guys please find a way to message me in the after-life.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Imagine how many receptions he would have had if these blind QBs actually threw it to him when he was open which was pretty often. Or if our dumbnuts OC actually targeted his best players.
That first round pick has to be o-line or WR.
rockaction
Footballguy
Pretty sure it will be. I have faith. Before you call me Charlie Brown, let me state that for some reason I fully believe we're going to reach for a guy who should have gone lower in the first as our OL that we will hope is our savior, therefore not giving the rookie any time to adjust to the pros, etc.
Recipe for failure, again. And it starts with how bad we are up front to begin with. We shouldn't be here.
If they draft a WR, that's more in line with the current mocks from the ten spot, and we might have another gem, but we have nobody to protect Rodgers unless we sign guys in free agency, which is awfully difficult.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
O-line is such a big need that these dopes will draft a pass rusher and talk about bpa.
sheerterror
Footballguy
Yea but Big Ticket just had a healthy season. Just ask him. We're good to go. Can't wait for his new t-shirts and selfies this offseason.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
as long as it happens for another team
Everyone likes to use the term "dawg" these days like he's got that dawg in him. With Becton, I prefer the older use of "dog" like he's a bum. He's got no heart. Entitled bum. Looked like he was mailing it in the second half of the season. Even mailing it in doesn't express how badly he played. I'm pretty sure @rockaction could have beaten him off the edge.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Hey @rockaction
I was watching a podcast about offensive line free agents and the guest was talking about how there is big backlash this week about your PFF Grades. A lot of players came out this week to say that PFF sucks at grading players and how their grades are vastly different than the grades given in their own building.
Hmm. I'm really shocked by this. insert giant sarcasm emoji. As I've said for a long time, these guys were smart for creating a product no one had, but these goofballs are not good at it. Unfortunately people quote them like the Bible
I was watching a podcast about offensive line free agents and the guest was talking about how there is big backlash this week about your PFF Grades. A lot of players came out this week to say that PFF sucks at grading players and how their grades are vastly different than the grades given in their own building.
Hmm. I'm really shocked by this. insert giant sarcasm emoji. As I've said for a long time, these guys were smart for creating a product no one had, but these goofballs are not good at it. Unfortunately people quote them like the Bible
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I take it like Kiper's grades/rankings - fun to read but clearly entertainment only!
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I dont even think those were hindsight moves - many of us were pushing for a WR over WMCD. Im also not a fan of pushing salary down the road for players that dont produce. Be done and pull the band aid.
Also all this talk of signing Higgins or Ridley - Id be surprised if either of them made it to FA and if so someone is going to offer a ridiculous amount. I see JD making more middle of the road signings than a big splash.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
"The Ravens are such idiots for not using a weapon like Dalvin Cook " said no one.
I guess that only works when it's the Jets. The media are a bunch of idiots, but thanks Woody, JD, and Saleh for keeping us as such a great punching bag for the world.
Only 2 more games before the end of this lousy season.
I guess that only works when it's the Jets. The media are a bunch of idiots, but thanks Woody, JD, and Saleh for keeping us as such a great punching bag for the world.
Only 2 more games before the end of this lousy season.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
watching the Lion debacle really hit me - Im old enough to remember the AFCCG in Denver and I know they would have beat the Falcons if they didnt blow that game.....the only thing consoling me was I was confident they'd be back next year - and then Vinny blew out his achilles. Nothing is guaranteed
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Nice to wake up to another Jets hit piece in the Athletic.
Not good for especially for Hackett, Saleh, Woody, Wilson and the rest of the organization.
I'm guessing our ex-WR coach was a major source of the leak.
I'm sure glad we kept Hackett and the majority of the coaching staff.
Not good for especially for Hackett, Saleh, Woody, Wilson and the rest of the organization.
I'm guessing our ex-WR coach was a major source of the leak.
I'm sure glad we kept Hackett and the majority of the coaching staff.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah.....we already knew Hackett was just a goofy, socially awkward nepo-puppet and that Salah was PROBABLY in over his head.
But now he's also a paranoid excuse maker whose goal was 7 win "survival" after Rodgers went down? Brutal.
They really should have just cleaned house and hired Vrabel. Even if Rodgers comes back strong, this staff isnt winning anything...especially with a likely weak o-line and huff gone
But now he's also a paranoid excuse maker whose goal was 7 win "survival" after Rodgers went down? Brutal.
They really should have just cleaned house and hired Vrabel. Even if Rodgers comes back strong, this staff isnt winning anything...especially with a likely weak o-line and huff gone
Kiddnets
Footballguy
The article really didnt surprise me - nothing we really didnt know. At this point its time to turn the page on this horrific season - at least its all in or out at this point - if they dont make the playoffs then its clear all are gone regardless of Rodgers. Looks like some good coaches will be available next year so we'll see.
Regardless of making the playoffs - I think its clear that offense rules this league and they need an offense minded HC. They will go as far as Rodgers takes them but when the experiment is over they need to go back to the well with an offense minded coach - the only two in the past 30 yrs is Kotite and Gase.....gotta do better than that!
Regardless of making the playoffs - I think its clear that offense rules this league and they need an offense minded HC. They will go as far as Rodgers takes them but when the experiment is over they need to go back to the well with an offense minded coach - the only two in the past 30 yrs is Kotite and Gase.....gotta do better than that!
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Not even that Saleh had less faith in Z Wilson than TLEF316? ha
Seriously, "a miracle to win 8 games with Wilson" is probably not the attitude you want from a head coach, but the new t-shirts with "positive vibes only" might be a bit hypocritical and not the game-changer he hopes these silly phrases can be. All gas, no breaks. Soar like an eagle, you play to win the game, etc. He's Coach "Blah, blah, blah".
The article definitely painted him in a bad light (which several of us had already felt that way, so no big change there). Publicly he was all about staying together, but privately blaming others and not taking responsibility for his own part in this like having basically nothing to do with the offense.
I think we all could see how bad of a job Hackett did. The problem is that he shouldn't be OC next year, but will be there due to his relationship with Rodgers.
It also stated that Wilson wasn't happy with Rodgers and got abandoned by him. Wilson has always come off an an entitled baby. Good riddance.
Anyway, I'm sure the Jets will do much better next year, but what's not encouraging is there really isn't any future with this team. Rodgers has what, one more year. Two maybe? Then they will blow it up. No QB to transition to so they will be back in the same predicament. fun, fun.
sheerterror
Footballguy
Yea, but in this 1-2 years, we might be able to go from longest playoff drought in all of North American pro sports to the Super Bowl!!!! You see this defense??? POSITIVE VIBES ONLY!!!!!!
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I think most Jet fans are well aware that Saleh isnt a good coach - and pointing the fingers behind the scenes is an earmark for a sinking HC which he is.
Im not wasting any more of my time on Zach Wilson. He is one of the top busts of all time and had plenty of chances to show otherwise. I think some team will give up a mid rd pick to try to fix him - I dont even think he is in the league in a few years but who knows- he definitely cant handle NY
Team is in purgatory - strange to think that silver lining in the 2023 debacle is at least they kept a top 10 pick who should be an impact player on a terrible offense. It was clear they werent going deep into the playoffs with that O -even if Rodgers stayed healthy. They need to fix the OL - add another WR then give it a 2 yr shot.
I could see them possibly drafting a QB high next year even if they make the playoffs. Try to emulate GB and Pennington.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Ha. What else are you selling?
In all seriousness, I think this year showed that no AFC team was invincible. As long as Rodgers is healthy, sure they can make the playoffs and maybe do some damage. That's if Rodgers lives through the season, our o-line gets better, we find another offensive weapon, we stay healthy on defense, and we don't drop off majorly in pass rush without Huff. Lots of ifs.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
A known insider said that the fired RB coach was the main source of the story. Says there are lots of fabrications in the article like the story about the threat of taking their cellphones and that of Rodgers abandoning Wilson. Also said that Hogan wasn't a source, nor was Wilson. Mostly the fired RB coach for what it's worth.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Finally this miserable season is over - except for one last kick in the nuts for jet fans.
Hoping 2024 is the season we thought we would get last year. Hopefully the delay showed off the weaknesses that have to be addressed to make a run. Going through teams with Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and Lamar is just brutal.
Hoping 2024 is the season we thought we would get last year. Hopefully the delay showed off the weaknesses that have to be addressed to make a run. Going through teams with Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and Lamar is just brutal.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Only guy on that line that ever stayed healthy but he was objectively terrible. The fact that they're willing to eat all that dead cap to cut him (and save 8m) speaks volumes.
Would be MUCH easier to swallow if Douglas hadn't unnecessarily pushed lawson and uzomah's money into this year.
Need 3 new starters up from (and that assumes a healthy AVT) plus depth
Would be MUCH easier to swallow if Douglas hadn't unnecessarily pushed lawson and uzomah's money into this year.
Need 3 new starters up from (and that assumes a healthy AVT) plus depth
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
Move AVT to LG his original slot, Tippman at Center, sign a RG, Draft a RT and sign a LT, just another year in Jetland, lol
Mitchell as a backup RT and Warren as a backup LT isn't terrible. If Becton wants to come back as a cheap backup fine, but my guess he is gone which is also fine. What they do at LT in FA should dictate the next moves...
Mitchell as a backup RT and Warren as a backup LT isn't terrible. If Becton wants to come back as a cheap backup fine, but my guess he is gone which is also fine. What they do at LT in FA should dictate the next moves...
zamboni
Footballguy
Man, I remember how excited most of the fan base was when we signed him. Such is the life...
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Its the right move - he was terrible. More reminders that JDs main purpose was to build the OL and he has failed miserably so far. Very tough to rebuild most of an OL in one season but here we are. Obviously the 1st rder is earmarked for OL - but he's going to have to pull a few more out of his hat as well.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Interesting comments from Mecole Hardman today:
1 - Hardman refused to return punts against KC when Gipson got hurt because he was mismled by Boyer about the return-job in camp, didn't have enough time to prepare on the night of the KC game when Gipson got hurt, was dealing with his own pinky injury, and more importantly had already mentally checked out. Saleh couldn't convince him to go in and return punts.
Not enough time to prepare? Ok. Mentally checked out? What a pro. Consummate teammate, too.
2 - He had already checked out and talked to the KC GM and Mahomes to come get him.
Sounds like tampering, but not like JD or anyone cared at that point. I'm sure they were happy to get rid of him.
3 - On why it didn't work out with the Jets: "It's the lies and the way they handled me. I didn't like it all". He said that he was as good or better than every other WR not named G Wilson.
He may not be wrong here. Even we were confused why he wasn't playing.
4 - On the Jets culture/Hackett - "No standard there. Everybody does what they want to do". The coaches say "we'll figure it out. It's Aaron's show. Let Aaron do what Aaron does. Then when Aaron goes down, it's like we don't know what to do". He said it was different on the defensive side. He was strictly talking about the offensive side of the team.
Ok, this actually rings like the most truthful and what we all expect. I'm sure a part of it is him being disgruntled, but anyone that watched this team on offense knows that this team on offense had no clue what it was doing. We ran when we should have thrown. We threw when we should have run. They didn't adjust to any pass rushers and didn't shorten up routes when the o-line was constantly under siege and had a QB that played as if he was blind. They even ran Tim Doyle out there before shuffling back to Wilson and then eventually Simien.
Yup. makes sense to run it back with Saleh, Hackett, and Carter. Meanwhile, they lost something like 7 coaches and 2 front office guys. They allegedly got rid of the RB and WR coach, but at least 5 others jumped ship (plus the front office guys).
We can all pray that by some miracle things are different with Rodgers, but the tea leaves aren't great. Yet, I'll step right up and try to kick that football again like Charlie Brown.
- Oh, the Dawkins (from the BIlls) interview was interesting, too. I'll leave that for someone else.
1 - Hardman refused to return punts against KC when Gipson got hurt because he was mismled by Boyer about the return-job in camp, didn't have enough time to prepare on the night of the KC game when Gipson got hurt, was dealing with his own pinky injury, and more importantly had already mentally checked out. Saleh couldn't convince him to go in and return punts.
Not enough time to prepare? Ok. Mentally checked out? What a pro. Consummate teammate, too.
2 - He had already checked out and talked to the KC GM and Mahomes to come get him.
Sounds like tampering, but not like JD or anyone cared at that point. I'm sure they were happy to get rid of him.
3 - On why it didn't work out with the Jets: "It's the lies and the way they handled me. I didn't like it all". He said that he was as good or better than every other WR not named G Wilson.
He may not be wrong here. Even we were confused why he wasn't playing.
4 - On the Jets culture/Hackett - "No standard there. Everybody does what they want to do". The coaches say "we'll figure it out. It's Aaron's show. Let Aaron do what Aaron does. Then when Aaron goes down, it's like we don't know what to do". He said it was different on the defensive side. He was strictly talking about the offensive side of the team.
Ok, this actually rings like the most truthful and what we all expect. I'm sure a part of it is him being disgruntled, but anyone that watched this team on offense knows that this team on offense had no clue what it was doing. We ran when we should have thrown. We threw when we should have run. They didn't adjust to any pass rushers and didn't shorten up routes when the o-line was constantly under siege and had a QB that played as if he was blind. They even ran Tim Doyle out there before shuffling back to Wilson and then eventually Simien.
Yup. makes sense to run it back with Saleh, Hackett, and Carter. Meanwhile, they lost something like 7 coaches and 2 front office guys. They allegedly got rid of the RB and WR coach, but at least 5 others jumped ship (plus the front office guys).
We can all pray that by some miracle things are different with Rodgers, but the tea leaves aren't great. Yet, I'll step right up and try to kick that football again like Charlie Brown.
- Oh, the Dawkins (from the BIlls) interview was interesting, too. I'll leave that for someone else.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
One of the rare instances where we might have actually been better if Tomlinson had gotten hurt. He was terrible.
In a way, I'm shocked that JD cut him. They seem to treasure guys that don't get hurt, no matter how bad they are at their job. Same way we keep terrible coaches around for the consistency.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Oh great. My gf gives me a package and says it's part of my birthday presents.
I see it's from the NFL store. Oh great. As if I'm not embarrassed enough to wear Jets merch now, it's a home and road Rodgers jerseys. Just great. Plus some Jets baseball-style shirt that I haven't even looked at yet. Definitely returning something, but Charlie Brown is definitely ready for another shot at that football.
I see it's from the NFL store. Oh great. As if I'm not embarrassed enough to wear Jets merch now, it's a home and road Rodgers jerseys. Just great. Plus some Jets baseball-style shirt that I haven't even looked at yet. Definitely returning something, but Charlie Brown is definitely ready for another shot at that football.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Totally agree with all of this. Hardman is a turd....and I'm pretty confident that the stories of him not being able to understand what Rodgers was doing (in terms of the hot routes, hand signals, etc) are probably true.
But anybody could see that the offensive staff had absolutely ZERO idea what to do without Aaron. None. Nothing came easy....awful game plans...awful decisions. Took them like 8 weeks before they realized that Breece was arguably the 2nd best pass catching back in the league. They're morons. And the mass exodus this off-season clearly demonstrates that anyone with a pulse wanted out before they're forever tainted by being part of the Hackett disaster.
Maybe they get really lucky, find 3 good O-linemen this off-season and stay healthy next year. But they're not going to win a super bowl with Saleh and Hackett leading the way, no matter good the defense plays....unless Rodgers turns the clock back 5 years and is the MVP of the league. And even then, the odds are incredibly long.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Hardman was horrific when given a chance and beaten out by 2 UFAs.
"no time to prepare for punt returns" is one of the more ridiculous comments
Look the Jets and their staff are lousy - but they are low hanging fruit. Id like to hear criticism from someone who doesnt have an axe to grind or lousy at their own job.
The only hope is JD channels his 2022 home runs and lands some solid OL/WRs - Super Bowl is still a long shot but Saleh can coach a defense well and Hackett has shown he can support a Rodgers defense. The entire hope is based on a 40 yr old Rodgers pulling off another MVP season. Definitely a long shot but better than any chance they've had in the last decade.
"no time to prepare for punt returns" is one of the more ridiculous comments
Look the Jets and their staff are lousy - but they are low hanging fruit. Id like to hear criticism from someone who doesnt have an axe to grind or lousy at their own job.
The only hope is JD channels his 2022 home runs and lands some solid OL/WRs - Super Bowl is still a long shot but Saleh can coach a defense well and Hackett has shown he can support a Rodgers defense. The entire hope is based on a 40 yr old Rodgers pulling off another MVP season. Definitely a long shot but better than any chance they've had in the last decade.
sheerterror
Footballguy
I think you may need to temper those expectations considering in 2022 they had 4 picks in the top 36, and this year, 1 in the top 70...
Kiddnets
Footballguy
im talking all offseason - just trying to point to the only time JD has done well lol - FA, trades and draft - need to rebuild OL and add another playmaker. As you accurately state its gotta be more than the draft.
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