34-0 (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

Saints 34
Patriots 0

at Foxsboro

When is it time for Coach BB to be relieved of duty?
Poor performance today vs a very suspect team in the New Orleans Saints
When is enough, enough?

 

[JohnnyU]

They had their 20+ years.

 

[Uncle Leo]

It’s time.

 

[Boston]

It has been pretty easy to see that BB the GM was failing...the surprise right now is that BB the HC seems to be failing as well...Pats just look totally unprepared in all three phases of the game...I can't picture anyone seeing the past two weeks and not thinking that a change has to be made after this season.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

It was enough when he tried to get everyone to believe Cam Newton was the answer while Brady was going to win a Super Bowl elsewhere...

At this point, he's just tarnishing a legacy and proving the haters right.

 

[abrunn1133]

Saints 34
Patriots 0

at Foxsboro

When is it time for Coach BB to be relieved of duty?
Poor performance today vs a very suspect team in the New Orleans Saints
When is enough, enough?

He should have retired when Brady left. This won’t tarnish his legacy 15 years from now, but it is a bad look when you factor in his Browns career, and his Brady-less Patriots career.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Yeah. Unfortunately, I think you have to tear the whole thing down and basically start from scratch. The roster, Belichick and all his hires based on nepotism.

 

[Da Franchise]

Lol at this tarnished legacy stuff.

Willy Mays had disaster years with the Mets. Jerry Rice played for the Seahawks. Michael Jordan had some ugly years with the Wizards.

No one cares.

Yes, he sucks right now and has for a couple years, but Belichick is going down as the GOAT head coach. And Brady is the GOAT quarterback. They are inseparable.

 

[Capella]

Saints 34
Patriots 0

at Foxsboro

When is it time for Coach BB to be relieved of duty?
Poor performance today vs a very suspect team in the New Orleans Saints
When is enough, enough?

He should have retired when Brady left. This won’t tarnish his legacy 15 years from now, but it is a bad look when you factor in his Browns career, and his Brady-less Patriots career.

I mean when you look at Belichick’s entire career without Brady and how Brady went to Tampa and immediately won a Super Bowl, it’s pretty obvious to me why the Pats were so good. Belichick is just another coach.

 

[Pots]

Lol at this tarnished legacy stuff.

Willy Mays had disaster years with the Mets. Jerry Rice played for the Seahawks. Michael Jordan had some ugly years with the Wizards.

No one cares.

Yes, he sucks right now and has for a couple years, but Belichick is going down as the GOAT head coach. And Brady is the GOAT quarterback. They are inseparable.

Find some better comparisons.

Rice played 11 games with the Seahawks after a pretty good stint with the Raiders and Michael Jordan wasn't bad with the Wizards at all. Without a doubt Bill is tarnishing his legacy. Brady proved he could do it without Bill. Bill right now looks like he was carried by Brady and is looking more and more like a Barry Switzer than a mastermind.

 

[Da Franchise]

Lol at this tarnished legacy stuff.

Willy Mays had disaster years with the Mets. Jerry Rice played for the Seahawks. Michael Jordan had some ugly years with the Wizards.

No one cares.

Yes, he sucks right now and has for a couple years, but Belichick is going down as the GOAT head coach. And Brady is the GOAT quarterback. They are inseparable.

Find some better comparisons.

Rice played 11 games with the Seahawks after a pretty good stint with the Raiders and Michael Jordan wasn't bad with the Wizards at all. Without a doubt Bill is tarnishing his legacy. Brady proved he could do it without Bill. Bill right now looks like he was carried by Brady and is looking more and more like a Barry Switzer than a mastermind.

He’s gotten too old; he isn’t as sharp and doesn’t have the same edge. It’s no different than an a great athlete hanging on too long and looking bad while aging out.

Brady gets the tiebreaker and bragging rights because he won the divorce, but there’s no Tom without Bill and no Bill without Tom. And Bill was a critical part of two Super Bowls with the Giants, so it’s not like he never won anything without Tom.

No one will care 5 years after he retires and especially 10.

 

[TheWinz]

I had to check...

As a head coach with Brady, BB went 219-64
As a head coach without Brady, BB went 67-83

 

[Dizzy]

I hope BB hangs on forever... this is fun to watch... lots of payback coming Pats way.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I had to check...

As a head coach with Brady, BB went 219-64
As a head coach without Brady, BB went 67-83

 

[Insein]

Dude has bought himself at least another 2 years to figure this out if he wants. Kraft will not fire him until then IMO. The thing is if you're BB, why do you want to stay any longer. The run is over. The magic ain't coming back.

 

[Chaka]

 

[cdclopper]

BB earned the right to step down whenever he feels like it. That's the first thing.

Besides that, it's unbelievable that anybody would even think he should be gone after his 3rd losing season in 23 years. This is even worse than the people who think Tomlin is a bad coach. What kind of world are we living in, that's what I'm wondering.

 

[msudaisy26]

Hoodie is still a great coach all time, maybe the best, but the Patriots success was more about Brady. Brady was going to be a great QB anywhere he went, but Bill amplified it.

 

[Todem]

I am just enjoying watching them suuuuuuuck.

 

[fruity pebbles]

BB earned the right to step down whenever he feels like it. That's the first thing.

Besides that, it's unbelievable that anybody would even think he should be gone after his 3rd losing season in 23 years. This is even worse than the people who think Tomlin is a bad coach. What kind of world are we living in, that's what I'm wondering.

He can step down somewhere else. If Brady didn’t earn the right to retire with the Pats neither should Bill.

 

[drummer]

Saints 34
Patriots 0

at Foxsboro

When is it time for Coach BB to be relieved of duty?
Poor performance today vs a very suspect team in the New Orleans Saints
When is enough, enough?

You know what makes this more embarrassing?

That NE didn't even intercept Derek Carr.

 

[scothawk]

Hoodie is still a great coach all time, maybe the best, but the Patriots success was more about Brady. Brady was going to be a great QB anywhere he went, but Bill amplified it.

To me its 50-50. Brady needed Bill to get started and then he got it and he was a machine.

Now Bill is older and threw the dice on a Bama QB - the latter part of which makes me lol.

To my mind Stevenson is a great RB. Bill cannot get anything out of him of his QB.

So. Where is the fault? Coach? QB? Both?

But yes Hoodie was awesome , The game caught up to him. See Carroll, Pete.

 

[HellToupee]

Dude has bought himself at least another 2 years to figure this out if he wants. Kraft will not fire him until then IMO. The thing is if you're BB, why do you want to stay any longer. The run is over. The magic ain't coming back.

Right now this has the feel of it’s coming to an end this year. Now a few weeks from now it could look different and he might have a couple of more years in him. Boston sports radio will be the fellowship of the miserable all over again

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Saints 34
Patriots 0

at Foxsboro

When is it time for Coach BB to be relieved of duty?
Poor performance today vs a very suspect team in the New Orleans Saints
When is enough, enough?

He should have retired when Brady left. This won’t tarnish his legacy 15 years from now, but it is a bad look when you factor in his Browns career, and his Brady-less Patriots career.

I mean when you look at Belichick’s entire career without Brady and how Brady went to Tampa and immediately won a Super Bowl, it’s pretty obvious to me why the Pats were so good. Belichick is just another coach.

Let's be fair. Brady walked into an excellent coach and offense, held back by Winston. BB went to the playoffs without Brady and nearly beat him with a lesser team in Foxboro.

As time went on, both player and coach got worse. Baker is playing better than Brady did last season. They won a garbage division with a losing record and got humiliated by the Cowboys. The Patriots had the same 8-9 record last season as the Buccaneers. The Patriots were 10-7 the year before.

I agree that the shine has worn off the Patriots, and there is no bag of tricks to rescue them. I also agree that Brady without BB > BB without Brady. But just another coach? Come on, man.

 

[fruity pebbles]

The GM needs to be fired

Top 5 cap hits are
Matt Judon
Hunter Henry
Jonnu Smith
Trent Brown
Davon Godchaux

Those 5 take up 1/3 of the cap, that’s who they’re bringing to the party each Sunday

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

And Jonnu isn't even on their roster!

 

[fruity pebbles]

Compare that to the Bills top 5 of
Josh Allen
Stefon Diggs
Dion Dawkins
Mitch Morse
Mycah Hyde

its criminal that the Pats top 5 paid and the Bills top 5 paid have roughly the same cap hit

 

[eighsse2]

I'd give him time to get things built back up. He has a few too many rings to just say, "oh, he's garbage without Brady".

 

[msudaisy26]

Hoodie is still a great coach all time, maybe the best, but the Patriots success was more about Brady. Brady was going to be a great QB anywhere he went, but Bill amplified it.

To me its 50-50. Brady needed Bill to get started and then he got it and he was a machine.

Now Bill is older and threw the dice on a Bama QB - the latter part of which makes me lol.

To my mind Stevenson is a great RB. Bill cannot get anything out of him of his QB.

So. Where is the fault? Coach? QB? Both?

But yes Hoodie was awesome , The game caught up to him. See Carroll, Pete.

It isn't 50/50. Belicheck has even said that Brady was better than Bledsoe in camp and preseason and he still didn't start him over Bledsoe. It took an injury to get Brady in the lineup not some epiphany by Bill.

 

[Capella]

s time went on, both player and coach got worse. Baker is playing better than Brady did last season. They won a garbage division with a losing record and got humiliated by the Cowboys. The Patriots had the same 8-9 record last season as the Buccaneers. The Patriots were 10-7 the year before.

You’re leaving out that Brady went 13-4 in the second year and probably had the best team in the league. Would’ve went back to back if Bowles didn’t go insane against the Rams.

 

[Godsbrother]

Didn't Kraft suggest that BB would not be back if the Pats didn't make the playoffs?

 

[Rookiefever]

I definitely agree bb’s time as a head coach is ending. It’s evident that Brady was a huge part of his success. The last couple years makes me wonder what a guy like Andy Reid would have done with Brady as his qb for 20 years. I never really liked Brady to much but it’s clear to me he is the best qb to ever play the game.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Hoodie is still a great coach all time, maybe the best, but the Patriots success was more about Brady. Brady was going to be a great QB anywhere he went, but Bill amplified it.

To me its 50-50. Brady needed Bill to get started and then he got it and he was a machine.

Now Bill is older and threw the dice on a Bama QB - the latter part of which makes me lol.

To my mind Stevenson is a great RB. Bill cannot get anything out of him of his QB.

So. Where is the fault? Coach? QB? Both?

But yes Hoodie was awesome , The game caught up to him. See Carroll, Pete.

It isn't 50/50. Belicheck has even said that Brady was better than Bledsoe in camp and preseason and he still didn't start him over Bledsoe. It took an injury to get Brady in the lineup not some epiphany by Bill.

It’s been argued ad nauseum but no one can deny Belichick’s defenses contributed at least as much as #12 to those dominant years.

 

[Boston]

No one has been more down on BB the past couple of years than me but it is 100% BS and revisionist history if you don't think he wasn't as good as there ever was for a 20-year period...and anyone who wants to argue otherwise please look at the Hall-of-Fame and you will see pretty much every modern era HC that is in the Hall had a H-o-F QB or at least a very good one...which is why Joe Gibbs is probably as underrated as there is as a HC by winning three titles with 3 different QBs.

 

[msudaisy26]

Hoodie is still a great coach all time, maybe the best, but the Patriots success was more about Brady. Brady was going to be a great QB anywhere he went, but Bill amplified it.

To me its 50-50. Brady needed Bill to get started and then he got it and he was a machine.

Now Bill is older and threw the dice on a Bama QB - the latter part of which makes me lol.

To my mind Stevenson is a great RB. Bill cannot get anything out of him of his QB.

So. Where is the fault? Coach? QB? Both?

But yes Hoodie was awesome , The game caught up to him. See Carroll, Pete.

It isn't 50/50. Belicheck has even said that Brady was better than Bledsoe in camp and preseason and he still didn't start him over Bledsoe. It took an injury to get Brady in the lineup not some epiphany by Bill.

It’s been argued ad nauseum but no one can deny Belichick’s defenses contributed at least as much as #12 to those dominant years.

He still has really good defenses and they aren't winning so I would disagree.

 

[massraider]

At this point, he's just tarnishing a legacy and proving the haters right.

The haters, myself included, have all been proven wrong a long, long time ago.

 

[Boston]

Hoodie is still a great coach all time, maybe the best, but the Patriots success was more about Brady. Brady was going to be a great QB anywhere he went, but Bill amplified it.

To me its 50-50. Brady needed Bill to get started and then he got it and he was a machine.

Now Bill is older and threw the dice on a Bama QB - the latter part of which makes me lol.

To my mind Stevenson is a great RB. Bill cannot get anything out of him of his QB.

So. Where is the fault? Coach? QB? Both?

But yes Hoodie was awesome , The game caught up to him. See Carroll, Pete.

It isn't 50/50. Belicheck has even said that Brady was better than Bledsoe in camp and preseason and he still didn't start him over Bledsoe. It took an injury to get Brady in the lineup not some epiphany by Bill.

It’s been argued ad nauseum but no one can deny Belichick’s defenses contributed at least as much as #12 to those dominant years.

For the first three definitely...for the other three they don't sniff it without TB12 (and yes, the D played great against the Rams in the last Super Bowl).

 

[[icon]]

BB earned the right to step down whenever he feels like it. That's the first thing.

Besides that, it's unbelievable that anybody would even think he should be gone after his 3rd losing season in 23 years. This is even worse than the people who think Tomlin is a bad coach. What kind of world are we living in, that's what I'm wondering.

As a pats fan this is where I'm at.

I attribute the dynasty 60/40 Brady/Bill... and honestly the Pats were so dominant for so long, I DGAF about a few rough years... let some other teams have some fun for a bit.

 

[JohnnyU]

BB earned the right to step down whenever he feels like it. That's the first thing.

Besides that, it's unbelievable that anybody would even think he should be gone after his 3rd losing season in 23 years. This is even worse than the people who think Tomlin is a bad coach. What kind of world are we living in, that's what I'm wondering.

As a pats fan this is where I'm at.

I attribute the dynasty 60/40 Brady/Bill... and honestly the Pats were so dominant for so long, I DGAF about a few rough years... let some other teams have some fun for a bit.

The Patriots are like Robert Johnson at the crossroads, where he sold his soul to the devil to be able to play the guitar like the wind. The Patriots had their long run, so now the devil has come to collect.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Tank for the number 1 pick, draft Caleb Williams and he's Popovich 2.0

Belichick wins again

 

[Boston]

Tank for the number 1 pick, draft Caleb Williams and he's Popovich 2.0

Belichick wins again

I forget where I read it but someone said the issue with getting the first pick is he will trade down and draft a JUCO long-snapper...

 

[menobrown]

BB earned the longest rope in history but it's not the rope of eternity. Kraft is 82 and he's not burning years on any longer on this mess.

The only way I see BB being able to remain head coach of NE after this season is if he gives up all control over personnel. The only way I see were he might be amenable to that was if you brought in someone from this tree but I think NE might want to turn over a new leaf.

It might be better for BB as he's to old himself to undertake what looks like a complete rebuild. He will of course be in major demand if he parts ways with NE, will likely go back to what control over personnel does he get in terms of where he goes and who wants him if he wants to continue coaching, which I assume he will. If I was an owner I'd be running to hire him as the head coach if my team had an opening, but if he wanted total control I'd pass. Can he operate in that manner now, especially if the GM is not from his tree? I don't know. Change is hard but as someone once said if you don't like change you'll probably like irrelevance any less and he's likely going to need to adapt to his new reality of not getting a run a team like he owns it.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The Patriots actually will be in great shape payroll in the coming seasons

QB: Mac Jones isn't going to get a 2nd contract, I doubt they even pick up his 5th year option.
'24-'27 it's likely the Patriots will be paying Rookie Salary money which could still be 8 figures but gives them many luxuries to load up at other positions
Typically a team would want a superstar WR or a strong WR1 to help out a young QB and also have a strong running game, OL should be strong to protect and allow development

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I think it's obvious at this point that Brady without BB >> than BB without Brady, but it's easy to forget that Brady was still mostly just a game manager for at least the first two Super Bowls.

I mean, in the 2001 Championship year Brady threw 1 TD the entire playoff run.

Through the first 2 Super Bowl runs Brady had a postseason QB rating under 80, which is extremely low.

Brady took over after that, but he was kind of along for the ride on some great teams put together by BB at the beginning.

 

[kyoun1e]

Think it's time to move on. Especially if Mac isn't the answer (and it would seem he isn't).

If Bill is around, he'll look to do the same damn thing he always does with the draft...wait on a QB in the draft, NOT draft an elite wideout, look for value, overreach on guys you can get two rounds later, etc.

I'd like some fresh ideas here, be bold, trade up, get a guy.

It's been a good run. All good things come to an end.

 

[Boston]

The Patriots actually will be in great shape payroll in the coming seasons

QB: Mac Jones isn't going to get a 2nd contract, I doubt they even pick up his 5th year option.
'24-'27 it's likely the Patriots will be paying Rookie Salary money which could still be 8 figures but gives them many luxuries to load up at other positions
Typically a team would want a superstar WR or a strong WR1 to help out a young QB and also have a strong running game, OL should be strong to protect and allow development

That is a major point because the Pats are in a spot where between a high pick and a ton of cap space they can begin the process of laying down a foundation...under no condition should BB be allowed to have any influence in how they spend that $ or use their picks...let's remember one thing...one of the reasons they have so much cap space is they drafted so badly for a period of time that all the guys that should be signing or signed their second contract are either gone or not worthy of one....looking at you Isiah Wynn, Sony Michel, N'keal Harry, Jojuan Williams and Duke Dawson.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The Patriots actually will be in great shape payroll in the coming seasons

QB: Mac Jones isn't going to get a 2nd contract, I doubt they even pick up his 5th year option.
'24-'27 it's likely the Patriots will be paying Rookie Salary money which could still be 8 figures but gives them many luxuries to load up at other positions
Typically a team would want a superstar WR or a strong WR1 to help out a young QB and also have a strong running game, OL should be strong to protect and allow development

That is a major point because the Pats are in a spot where between a high pick and a ton of cap space they can begin the process of laying down a foundation...under no condition should BB be allowed to have any influence in how they spend that $ or use their picks...let's remember one thing...one of the reasons they have so much cap space is they drafted so badly for a period of time that all the guys that should be signing or signed their second contract are either gone or not worthy of one....looking at you Isiah Wynn, Sony Michel, N'keal Harry, Jojuan Williams and Duke Dawson.

A quick turnaround on the OL is usually a 2nd/3rd at OT, 4th/5th at IOL whichever you can find, 2 new rookies poured in, you sign 2 free agents on the OL, they do not have to be Top5 salary types wither, you just want to have a solid foundation for the incoming rookie QB to have confidence and time to make good decisions.

There are lots of modern OC-types that can propel this team into the 21 Century if Bill can get out of the way.
But I would start on the OL leading up to the Draft and then take the QB to build around. And most of the New England WRs have gotta go and bring in a strong veteran WR that is still in their prime and can do real damage to opposing defenses.

 

[Boston]

The Patriots actually will be in great shape payroll in the coming seasons

QB: Mac Jones isn't going to get a 2nd contract, I doubt they even pick up his 5th year option.
'24-'27 it's likely the Patriots will be paying Rookie Salary money which could still be 8 figures but gives them many luxuries to load up at other positions
Typically a team would want a superstar WR or a strong WR1 to help out a young QB and also have a strong running game, OL should be strong to protect and allow development

That is a major point because the Pats are in a spot where between a high pick and a ton of cap space they can begin the process of laying down a foundation...under no condition should BB be allowed to have any influence in how they spend that $ or use their picks...let's remember one thing...one of the reasons they have so much cap space is they drafted so badly for a period of time that all the guys that should be signing or signed their second contract are either gone or not worthy of one....looking at you Isiah Wynn, Sony Michel, N'keal Harry, Jojuan Williams and Duke Dawson.

A quick turnaround on the OL is usually a 2nd/3rd at OT, 4th/5th at IOL whichever you can find, 2 new rookies poured in, you sign 2 free agents on the OL, they do not have to be Top5 salary types wither, you just want to have a solid foundation for the incoming rookie QB to have confidence and time to make good decisions.

There are lots of modern OC-types that can propel this team into the 21 Century if Bill can get out of the way.
But I would start on the OL leading up to the Draft and then take the QB to build around. And most of the New England WRs have gotta go and bring in a strong veteran WR that is still in their prime and can do real damage to opposing defenses.

The whole offense from top-to bottom needs to be rebuilt:

QB-Mac just isn't the answer...he has been hung out to dry by BB but the combo of lack of athleticism, a below average arm and maturity is not a good one...he will get another shot somewhere else and with all their holes he could get one more year here, but he just isn't the long-term answer.

RB-things around him are bad but Stevenson just doesn't look like the same player...he will be back but other than him this unit needs a complete overhaul.

TE-both Henry and Gesicki are free agents...Gesicki is doing nothing so no reason to bring him back...Henry is a solid TE but he will be 29 in December...gotta believe it will be a better fit for both him and the team if he signs elsewhere...there is nothing behind these two.

WR-enough already...can you just stop lying to yourself about this position...just burn it down...giving Parker an extension and Juju a contract was just asinine...how can someone so intelligent think those were smart moves...figure out a way to get out of those deals with all your cap space this offseason and outside of Douglas (and maybe Boutte) begin building a WR unit that is a step better than Pop Warner.

O line-got into a lot of back and fourths about this unit going into the year because I felt very strongly it was nothing more than average at best and everything had to go perfect for it to be good...in fairness injuries have made it worse but again they were lying to themselves that they could get away with this group...they literally do not have a RT and counting on Trent Brown to be your LT is just foolish...he's a dog you cannot count on...Andrews has been a warrior but he is 31 and has some hard miles on him...Onwenu looked to be a foundational piece going into the year and granted he is coming back from an injury but he looks like garbage...he is also going to be a FA so no idea what goes on with him...drafting Cole Strange in the first round was stupid...you just didn't need to do that...he has been banged up all year but I don't see him projecting to be anything more than solid...this unit is in very rough shape and needs to be a main focus this offseason.

It is amazing how bad their offense is...it couldn't be worse if you tried to.

 

[btemp]

Saints 34
Patriots 0

at Foxsboro

When is it time for Coach BB to be relieved of duty?
Poor performance today vs a very suspect team in the New Orleans Saints
When is enough, enough?

He should have retired when Brady left. This won’t tarnish his legacy 15 years from now, but it is a bad look when you factor in his Browns career, and his Brady-less Patriots career.

I mean when you look at Belichick’s entire career without Brady and how Brady went to Tampa and immediately won a Super Bowl, it’s pretty obvious to me why the Pats were so good. Belichick is just another coach.

Let's be fair. Brady walked into an excellent coach and offense, held back by Winston. BB went to the playoffs without Brady and nearly beat him with a lesser team in Foxboro.

As time went on, both player and coach got worse. Baker is playing better than Brady did last season. They won a garbage division with a losing record and got humiliated by the Cowboys. The Patriots had the same 8-9 record last season as the Buccaneers. The Patriots were 10-7 the year before.

I agree that the shine has worn off the Patriots, and there is no bag of tricks to rescue them. I also agree that Brady without BB > BB without Brady. But just another coach? Come on, man.

As a Bucs fan, this just isn't true. It wasn't an excellent team or offense. Outside of Evans and Godwin as WRs, where was the talent? They had to bring in Fournette at Rb and Gronk at TE (and A Brown). The OL before he got there was considered average, at best. And then Brady gets there and magically the OL becomes excellent (almost like QB has a major impact on OL performance).

The defense was very good with a good DC.

Arians was washed and Leftwich was a terrible OC who's ceiling is as a position coach. People may not remember that the Bucs O was bad until partway through the season when Brady (literally) took over and changed the offense.

I was a big believer in BB over Brady as the primary driver in Pat's success. But having watched Brady come in and turn around what was a terrible franchise, having not won a playoff game since 2002, astounded me. The entire team CHANGED. And it is still carrying over with this team.

Belichick is obviously a very good coach, and was an excellent DC. But Brady took an incompetent ownership group, retired HC, clueless OC, and a roster built by a GM with a worse record than Matt Millen, and took it to the Super Bowl and was ONE play away from going to another one.

 

[Dizzy]

The GOAT not only made his teammates better, but he made a GOAT "genius" out of an average head coach - or so his record without Brady suggests.

Kraft has to relieve him of his GM duties as a minimum, but then he may be one of these "I'm not cooking unless I buy the groceries" types and can accept one without the other.

Either way, this team is toast. Start trading away the talent now... oh, never mind.