amnesiac
beer is good
this does not inspire confidence in this team moving forward.
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Cleveland Browns (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Stefanski had his kids on the field when the Browns were ahead by 2 scores so they could celebrate with him?
The next shot was of them back in the stands later in the 4th as they lost.
The next shot was of them back in the stands later in the 4th as they lost.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Massage tables in the parking lot for tailgating before the games with women taking an active part in massaging fans wearing DeShaun Watson jerseys? 
-How can you defend it but at the same time I kind of understand where it comes from but isn't that the problem to begin with? Fans will do the most outrageous things and it seems to be perfectly acceptable. I'm not trying to shame the Browns fan base in here, I just thought the vibe was interesting as fans were going inside the stadium.
Browns' fan base have some custom jerseys as well, I won't post those on here.
I understand fans want to win, but at the same time the NFL carries a narrative that is much different from the people paying the ticket prices going into and out of the stadiums on Sundays.
-How can you defend it but at the same time I kind of understand where it comes from but isn't that the problem to begin with? Fans will do the most outrageous things and it seems to be perfectly acceptable. I'm not trying to shame the Browns fan base in here, I just thought the vibe was interesting as fans were going inside the stadium.
Browns' fan base have some custom jerseys as well, I won't post those on here.
I understand fans want to win, but at the same time the NFL carries a narrative that is much different from the people paying the ticket prices going into and out of the stadiums on Sundays.
Galileo
Footballguy
Jimmy Haslam had made his way to the sideline as well expecting a little post game celebration. He too disappeared quickly before it ended.
rockaction
Footballguy
Not sure even Deshaun wins that game yesterday. That's a lot of yards and points to give up to a Joe Flacco-led team.
Hope everyone got fitted for their York jerseys already. NEW YORK, amirite?
I have no doubt the Browns will be competing for probably a playoff spot in 2023. See you then.
By the way, I always ripped Baker Mayfield in this thread. Watched the Giants game with my brother, flipping back and forth with the Jets. I'm here to tell you that Baker is every bit of the stiff I thought he was.
Hope everyone got fitted for their York jerseys already. NEW YORK, amirite?
I have no doubt the Browns will be competing for probably a playoff spot in 2023. See you then.
By the way, I always ripped Baker Mayfield in this thread. Watched the Giants game with my brother, flipping back and forth with the Jets. I'm here to tell you that Baker is every bit of the stiff I thought he was.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Sorry if this was posted before. And I'm sorry if I'm the first to post this...
The Browns have not started 1-0 since 2004 and 2-0 since 1993.
That is so Browns.
The Browns have not started 1-0 since 2004 and 2-0 since 1993.
That is so Browns.
beer 30
Footballguy
No need to really post it, we all know. The fans in this thread are inundated with obscure Browns records for incompetency every day either through the national media, radio or press. It's a mantle you accept when you become a fan and you wear it proudly.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
At least you can revel in it. Vikings fans are given hope every year only to have their hearts torn out...every year.
beer 30
Footballguy
Looks like no harm no foul but Myles checking status of the ROPS in a Porsche probably wasn't on anyone's bingo card.
Brown's sure seem f'n snake bit sometimes.
Brown's sure seem f'n snake bit sometimes.
amnesiac
beer is good
thanks for the link.
looks like it's on the up and up, with witnesses stating there have been other accidents in that spot, and that deer frequently cross the road there.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Dawgs By Nature
@DawgsByNature
Seems like the Browns are well repped on this list. Wills playing well again now that he is healthy
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Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
As @SeifertESPN pointed out yesterday, Brian O'Neill should also be getting plenty of attention for how consistently excellent he's been. He leads all tackles in pass block win rate through three weeks. Such a reliable player and leader for the Vikings. https://espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/345...aderboard-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams
2022 NFL pass-rushing, run-stopping, blocking leaderboard: Win rate rankings for top players, team
-------------------
I did not expect this.
Two Browns O-Linemen make the top-ten of the list of the highest pass-block win-rate for OTs in the entire NFL.
LINK to chart
@DawgsByNature
Seems like the Browns are well repped on this list. Wills playing well again now that he is healthy
----------------
Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
As @SeifertESPN pointed out yesterday, Brian O'Neill should also be getting plenty of attention for how consistently excellent he's been. He leads all tackles in pass block win rate through three weeks. Such a reliable player and leader for the Vikings. https://espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/345...aderboard-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams
2022 NFL pass-rushing, run-stopping, blocking leaderboard: Win rate rankings for top players, team
-------------------
I did not expect this.
Two Browns O-Linemen make the top-ten of the list of the highest pass-block win-rate for OTs in the entire NFL.
LINK to chart
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Barstool Cleveland@BS_Cleveland
The entire Dawg Pound rn out looking for that deer that nearly took out Myles
LINK
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
We didn't lose because of coaching or QB play.
We had 3 of 4 starting defensive linemen OUT. No surprise, we got rolled for 202 rushing yards and should have lost since the Falcons completely dominated and wore down our undermanned D-Line.
Just saw this.
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Browns’ defensive snap counts, stats, and notes: Week 4 The defensive line and Jacob Phillips struggle mightily.
I am not upset we lost a close game by 3. I'm not bothered at all.
I mean come on.
Even if we get Clowney and Garrett back against the Chargers we know Herbert is going to light us up because Myles isn't expected to be near 100% for about a month. I don't see us winning Sunday and I can't get upset because I'm not expecting a win.
I'm more shocked by what is happening in the AFC because I would have never thought we'd be 2-2 and tied for the divisional lead at this point or NOT be looking up at the rest of the Conference.
Ridiculous to be upset.
Bottom line, we need to get people healthy.
-------------------------------
From the article noted above. We lost our starting MLB and his replacement was a big reason for the breakdowns on defense.
Jacobs is really bad.
Go the link to see gif's of Phillips mistakes.
He is a big problem.
-------------------------------
We had 3 of 4 starting defensive linemen OUT. No surprise, we got rolled for 202 rushing yards and should have lost since the Falcons completely dominated and wore down our undermanned D-Line.
Just saw this.
-------------------------------
Browns’ defensive snap counts, stats, and notes: Week 4 The defensive line and Jacob Phillips struggle mightily.
- The Browns were missing Myles Garrett, Jadeveon Clowney, and Taven Bryan. They got away with it for almost a full three quarters, but then Atlanta realized that they could just run the football every single play and beat our front seven.
- When you have backups thrust into a starting role, I typically think it’s better to rotate as many players in as possible — meaning instead of playing someone for 90% of the snaps, have two players take 50% and 40% of the snaps, respectively. If someone is a backup to begin with, they will tend to wear down more easily as the game goes on.
I am not upset we lost a close game by 3. I'm not bothered at all.
I mean come on.
Even if we get Clowney and Garrett back against the Chargers we know Herbert is going to light us up because Myles isn't expected to be near 100% for about a month. I don't see us winning Sunday and I can't get upset because I'm not expecting a win.
I'm more shocked by what is happening in the AFC because I would have never thought we'd be 2-2 and tied for the divisional lead at this point or NOT be looking up at the rest of the Conference.
Ridiculous to be upset.
Bottom line, we need to get people healthy.
-------------------------------
From the article noted above. We lost our starting MLB and his replacement was a big reason for the breakdowns on defense.
Jacobs is really bad.
Go the link to see gif's of Phillips mistakes.
He is a big problem.
-------------------------------
- To my recollection, this was Jacob Phillips first game in which he was “the guy” at linebacker, taking over for Anthony Walker. Phillips’ potential has been touted for a couple years now, but his first week as a starter was disastrous. Here is what Pro Football Focus had to say about it:
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The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Titans Joe Schobert was put back on taxi squad after posting 4 solo tackles, 2 assists and a forced fumble filling in for the injured Zach Cunningham. All that playing just 24 snaps and grading as their top rated player according to pro football focus. Browns defense and linebackers graded low. Wonder if Browns have any interest in Schobert.
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amnesiac
beer is good
i should clarify, this has less to do with Brissett, and more to do with the part where they needed to stack wins early on.
i think Brissett has done a nice job for the most part.
amnesiac
beer is good
if it makes sense to us, it probably won't happen.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Garrett is back this week. Clowney questionable
MAC_32
Footballguy
Don't agree. I like our chances to get to 6-5. This offense is playing well enough to expect 27-31+ points most weeks, just gotta finish more drives. And can't afford to lose Garrett, JOK, or Clowney. Last week showed why. Hope that was a good learning opportunity for Jacob Phillips cause he's gonna need to be a lot better than that!
Dez
Footballguy
2-2 vs 4 of the worst teams in the league does not bode well for the next 7 games. Really should be 4-0 right now. 100% for sure should be 3-1 you can't lose that Jets game that was the dumbest Browns loss ever (not most heart breaking just dumbest) because you fall down or step out of bounds at the 1 and you win. Did you guys see what Josh Allen did ? He got a 1st down on a run to the 1 and did not score and Baltimore defenders were mad about not letting him score and they still had to make the FG to win.
We went up 13 and thought scoring was ok when I was screaming at the TV why did you score (while knowing we still had a 99+% chance to win) but guess what they had 100% chance to win if Chubb fell down and did not score or stepped out of bounds at the 1 (like he did in a game either last year or 2 years ago I forget which).
We went up 13 and thought scoring was ok when I was screaming at the TV why did you score (while knowing we still had a 99+% chance to win) but guess what they had 100% chance to win if Chubb fell down and did not score or stepped out of bounds at the 1 (like he did in a game either last year or 2 years ago I forget which).
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Chubb didn't do anything wrong scoring that TD. Never before ever has someone scored a TD rather than fall down at the 1 while putting their team up 14 under two minutes (jets also had no timeouts or maybe just 1?) and then lost the game.
What's next, a guy scores a TD with 2 minutes left to go up 21, they lose in miraculous fashion, and the player is blamed for scoring?
Or say Chubb did fall down at the 1, then we fumble a snap trying to kneel down and turn the ball over. The chances of that happening are probably higher than the chances of what actually happened.
You shouldn't want your players thinking too much about this stuff. It's only going to lead to bad decisions and fumbles.
Also, back to Bracies post.....are you telling me the coaching can't do ANYTHING about the Falcons running it 15 times in a row? Dline hurt, ok, try rushing more people to make awful Marriotta make a play to his crew of non playmakers
What's next, a guy scores a TD with 2 minutes left to go up 21, they lose in miraculous fashion, and the player is blamed for scoring?
Or say Chubb did fall down at the 1, then we fumble a snap trying to kneel down and turn the ball over. The chances of that happening are probably higher than the chances of what actually happened.
You shouldn't want your players thinking too much about this stuff. It's only going to lead to bad decisions and fumbles.
Also, back to Bracies post.....are you telling me the coaching can't do ANYTHING about the Falcons running it 15 times in a row? Dline hurt, ok, try rushing more people to make awful Marriotta make a play to his crew of non playmakers
Dez
Footballguy
That was more dumb idiotic play calling and the Browns could be 5-0 and instead 2-3.
You have the ball at the 35 and 1st down only need like 5 yards to make it a comfertable FG attempt instead they run a sweep and then throw a bomb.
DUMB DUMB DUMB just throw 5 yard pass you idiots on 1st or 2nd down and then set up a 45 to 49 yard FG.
He barely missed from 54 it would been good from 45.
Stupid play calling who throws a bomb when you need 5 yards
You have the ball at the 35 and 1st down only need like 5 yards to make it a comfertable FG attempt instead they run a sweep and then throw a bomb.
DUMB DUMB DUMB just throw 5 yard pass you idiots on 1st or 2nd down and then set up a 45 to 49 yard FG.
He barely missed from 54 it would been good from 45.
Stupid play calling who throws a bomb when you need 5 yards
Dez
Footballguy
So you like having a chance to lose then well good for you. Chubb falls down at 1 we win instead we lost. He went out of bounds at the 1 before in same situation a year or two ago.
Again you like having the chance to lose well you got it instead of 100% win you had 99% and the 1% came up and we lost.
Hopefully you learned a lesson like the rest of the world when you have a shot to win 100% chance to you take it.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
My in depth analysis. They suck... again. How can they have so much hope and hype year after year and just continually underperform so badly?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
1st down at the 35. Chubb averaging 8 yards a carry. Nah, why on earth would we give him the ball.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Jacoby falls apart late in games. Not surprising cause he isn't very good.
Our coaching also seems to fall apart late in games which wasn't expected.
Our coaching also seems to fall apart late in games which wasn't expected.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
The culture in Cleveland is not good. The club is waiting for their saviour in the form of serial sexual predator. GL Browns.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
LOL, pretty damn funny.
Browns scoring third most points in the conference so take play-calling responsibilities from the offensive coach who is calling plays.
Browns defense, surrendering third most points in the conference, crickets. LOL.
Deion trade shows how bad Phillips is if people couldn't figure it out by watching the last two games, putrid.
Atlanta switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and the roles of the LBers changed where they asked Deion to take on blockers. If you know the roles of LBers in a 3-4 one LBer goes in and takes on blockers and the other is free to roam. Guess what role they tasked Deion with? Yep, they had him go in and sacrifice his body taking on blockers and he got injured and didn't fit the new scheme.
(Not directed at you but for those who think all of the problems are due to Chubb scoring to go-up 2 TDs with under a minute left or that Stefanski's play calling is the issue)
Guess what defense we play? 4-3. We came into this season with the worst pair of starting DTs and 'apparently' scant depth at MLB because Jacob Phillips just isn't a starting LBer. Add in injuries to both starting DEs and a pair of clueless rookie DEs who can't set the edge and take bad angles on virtually EVERY PLAY and it is the perfect storm for the ****storm we've witnessed in defending the run.
Deion isn't a cure-all. He's 'best' defending the pass and is hit-or-miss in the run game but he's worlds better than Jacob Phillips even when he's still on IR. He will come off this week.
We've still got the two worst graded DTs in the league and have two injured starting DEs which means we still have gaping holes on the edge run defense but at least we have a vet MLB going forward.
Add, from what I've heard the Falcons have to eat the dead cap on the bulk of Jones' contract this year which means its basically a one-year million-dollar deal for us and the comp was a 6th in 2024 where we get a 7th back that year so basically NOTHING.
I'm in.
beer 30
Footballguy
I bailed yesterday when he threw the INT. Disgusted with the defense, disgusted with the kicker, disgusted with the offensive play calling. Had enough, went for a walk in the woods and felt much better. I highly recommend it. This team won't get better until the coaching changes and the players start giving a ****. I don't need Stefanski fired and while I would like to fire Woods, what then? Nothing is going to change at this point so not really in on that either. Just another wasted year of having an incredible RB that ran for an average of 8 yards a carry yesterday.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
First game when both Garrett/Clowney and our MLB Walker were healthy we gave up 54 yards on the ground at a clip of 2.8 yards per rush.
Second game, when Clowney's ankle got dinged we gave up 93 yards on the ground at a clip of 4.7 yards a clip.
Third game, Clowney injured and Walker landed on IR during the game we gave up 104 yards at 4.7 yards a clip.
Fourth game, with Waker/Garrett/Clowney OUT and Jacob's first game as a starter with the green dot.
We gave up 177 yards on the ground at 5.1 yards a clip.
Fifth game, Walker OUT with Clowney and Garrett not ready to come back but we were/are desperate, so we forced them back too soon. Everyone saw how Atlanta changed their game-plan after they discovered our weak underbelly and just kept attacking on the ground and the Chargers saw how easy it would be and practiced all-week and we knew they'd kill us on the ground.
What happened?
We gave up 238 yards on the ground at 7.0 yards a clip.
Let me state that stat again.
Out defense surrendered SEVEN F'NG YARDS A CARRY. SEVEN F'NG YARDS!
No team can with that putrid run defense.
It's not just bad, it is the worst I've ever witnessed in any team ever.
It's a Jimmys and Joes personnel problem not an Xs and Os coaching issue.
Second game, when Clowney's ankle got dinged we gave up 93 yards on the ground at a clip of 4.7 yards a clip.
Third game, Clowney injured and Walker landed on IR during the game we gave up 104 yards at 4.7 yards a clip.
Fourth game, with Waker/Garrett/Clowney OUT and Jacob's first game as a starter with the green dot.
We gave up 177 yards on the ground at 5.1 yards a clip.
Fifth game, Walker OUT with Clowney and Garrett not ready to come back but we were/are desperate, so we forced them back too soon. Everyone saw how Atlanta changed their game-plan after they discovered our weak underbelly and just kept attacking on the ground and the Chargers saw how easy it would be and practiced all-week and we knew they'd kill us on the ground.
What happened?
We gave up 238 yards on the ground at 7.0 yards a clip.
Let me state that stat again.
Out defense surrendered SEVEN F'NG YARDS A CARRY. SEVEN F'NG YARDS!
No team can with that putrid run defense.
It's not just bad, it is the worst I've ever witnessed in any team ever.
It's a Jimmys and Joes personnel problem not an Xs and Os coaching issue.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I have some concerns regarding the overall lack of discipline and not holding Woods accountable for what's happening on defense (getting some Pettine-O'Neill vibes), but I'm not sure it's possible for me to disagree more with those criticizing anything on the offensive side of the ball. We're scoring 27 points/game with a backup QB and are leaving points on the field every week. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is clearly a theme for 2022, but Brissett and a rookie kicker should not be in the position to need to make a play late every week anyway.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Brissett throws an INT in the last two minutes of every game it seems. Every loss anyway.
Gotta be a combination of him sucking and coaching.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Don't think so. I think it's just a product of the type of QB he is (risk adverse). Put him in position to make the play and he generally does. Put him in a position in which he needs to make a play and he crumbles. A shoddy defense is consistently putting the team in a position in which he has to make a play late and that's just over his limited skill set.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Do you think that replacing Woods will fix the lack of NFL caliber defensive tackles on the team?
Ding Woods for miscommunication with busted coverages because we have NFL caliber DBs so that isn't a personnel issue.
The key issue with the team is the lack of NFL starters at both DT positions. We came into this season with the worst pair of DTs in the league. We had issues last year stopping the run, see both of last year's Pittsburgh games where we could not stop Najee up the gut. We never adequately addressed defensive tackle and it is the main issue this year. We would have commanding leads in games late in games instead of putting the ball into Brissett's hands.
Chargers Reveal Browns Mettle in 30-28 Loss
...The Browns don't have NFL caliber defensive tackles, which puts their undersized linebackers at a gross disadvantage every week when it comes to taking on the interior running game. That's before they fail to execute assignments or make tackles on their own merits...
Defensive Tackle Continues to be Drain on Browns Defense
Defensive tackle was the worst position for the Cleveland Browns in the 2021 season and a month into the 2022 season, it is no better.
...Elliott has played 178 snaps this season while Togiai has played 82. Out of 123 defensive tackles in the NFL, they rank 122nd and 123rd respectively.
...The Steelers interior blew the Browns off the ball and Harris simply ran over and through Browns linebackers and safeties.
...last year where Harris had a combined 279 rushing yards in two games
-----------
JC
@JCozmo
As bad as we all thought thought the DT room was, the idea that everyone in that room would be acres below replacement level is far worse than anticipated.
beer 30
Footballguy
Not putting words in your mouth but I think you meant to have the word "win" in there someplace? If so, I give you Nick Chubb:
17 attempts, 134 yards, 7.9 yards average
MAC_32
Footballguy
I thought I had written about the DT's in here, but it appears I have not. My opinion on them is akin to what I wrote about Phillips upstream. My criticism of Woods isn't isolated to the quoted, but that's where it stems from. I wonder if AB's move Sunday night is him doing to Woods now what he did to Baker last year. You don't have a MIKE LB? Okay, here's Deion Jones. Now stop sucking outloud. I expect DT to be addressed this month - maybe today.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Stevenson's gonna run wild, that's a near certainty. What I am curious about is what he throws at Brissett since he was drafted by the Pats and unloaded 15 months later for...not much in return.
Beef Ravioli Part 2
Footballguy
I’m not dinging our offense which I think has played wonderfully, especially with a new backup QB as our starting QB, but I hate having our head coach as the offensive coordinator!! Could AVP call as good of a game? I don’t know, but I believe my head coach could be more effective in other areas of the team and game!
When I own an NFL team, I won’t allow my head coach to also be the OC!
When I own an NFL team, I won’t allow my head coach to also be the OC!
amnesiac
beer is good
amnesiac
beer is good
one of the guys on 92.3 (it was a sub, didn't catch who it was) posited the theory today that the Browns are indeed playing for 2023 and using this season to evaluate the young players so they can figure out what they need to do next year in free agency.
when you consider that every one of Berry's draft picks made the 53 this year, it makes a lot of sense, but i feel we've been sold a false bill of goods of them trying to compete this year.
when you consider that every one of Berry's draft picks made the 53 this year, it makes a lot of sense, but i feel we've been sold a false bill of goods of them trying to compete this year.
Galileo
Footballguy
Well, they are competitive. They have lost 3 games by a total of 6 points. The problem is they are frustrating as hell.
amnesiac
beer is good
very true. and in years past i would've been happy with that.
but they have raised the expectations, and i should have said that they are competing for the playoffs. if they were truly trying to make a playoff push, they would've filled in some of the gaps with FAs instead of keeping every single draft pick Berry has ever made.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Yes, I meant to say no team can WIN with that putrid run defense.
Per Chubb.
Fantastic production so my question would be.
Is he the problem? Is the offense the problem? Is Stefanski dialing up those numbers the problem?
It is obvious what the problem is.
Browns Defense Must Improve, but Some Issues May Be Chronic
...The Browns are getting even less from the defensive tackle position than they did last year, which was the worst in the league and often at the heart of the team's defensive failures in 2021. Losing Clowney and Garrett when the team was already missing Chase Winovich to a hamstring injury laid bare to how little the back end of the edge rotation has to offer.
...The issues up front are causing putting the linebackers under siege. A group that has enough problems on its own has been tasked with the added challenge of taking on blocks
We 'sorta' addressed DT. This is what I expected. We won't be pushing all the chips in this year, we will 'try' to fix this on the cheap because the DT we signed is just a warm body.
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Brent Sobleski@brentsobleski
Davison's run-defense grade declined each of the last three seasons. Granted, something needed to be done because that DT group is horrific. At the same time, now wasn't the time this glaring issue should have been addressed. Hope in Cleveland is these Band-Aids slow the bleeding
Tom Pelissero@TomPelissero
Veteran NT Tyeler Davison is signing with the #Browns
practice squad, with an eye towards the 53-man roster soon, per source. Davison is a seven-year vet with 90 career starts in New Orleans and Atlanta, where his job was to keep Deion Jones clean. Now they reunite in Cleveland.
