FOX Sports is reporting Pats taped practice (1 Viewer)

[ImTheScientist]

Sign in if you feel the Patriots should be stripped of their titles. I am not sure how anyone can say their cheating did not help them at all. I feel bad for fans of the Rams, Eagles, and Panthers. You may or may not have won, but now you have to feel cheated as fans. All someone can ask for is a fair game. The Patriots actions disgust me. I have lost all respect for that organization.

 

[Frostillicus]

Did we travel back in time?

 

[cobalt_27]

Sign in if you feel the Patriots should be stripped of their titles. I am not sure how anyone can say their cheating did not help them at all. I feel bad for fans of the Rams, Eagles, and Panthers. You may or may not have won, but now you have to feel cheated as fans. All someone can ask for is a fair game. The Patriots actions disgust me. I have lost all respect for that organization.

Not to mention their fans who think their titles are legitimate.

 

[Wombat Killer]

When players get caught using steroids, no one talks about having the team forfit any wins that took place. What if an entire defense got caught using steroids? I still don't think anyone would be talking about forfitting wins.

 

[JAA]

:sign:

:bittereaglesfan:

 

[crushtang]

I don't think the idea of having to give up their titles is unreasonable. Marion Jones admitted to cheating (using performance enhancing drugs) and was forced to give back her Olympic medals.

 

[Footballhead]

IF the Patriots cheated, this will open another can of worms of debates. Are the Rams the real superbowl champs or the steelers or the AFC runner up. It has implications all the way to regular season and playoff results. I for one is not interested to see this damaging the league.

 

[cobalt_27]

IF the Patriots cheated, this will open another can of worms of debates. Are the Rams the real superbowl champs or the steelers or the AFC runner up. It has implications all the way to regular season and playoff results. I for one is not interested to see this damaging the league.

Damage done. No need for the league to do any more by officially stripping them of their titles.But, as fans, we can look at their titles with the same cynicism that we look at Bonds and rightfully assume that he wouldn't have hit all of those home runs without the juice.

 

[loose circuits]

signed,

another Eagle fan

 

[Filthy]

Signed,

The Steeler Nation

Belichick/Goddell: Let's get ready to

 

[jgb95]

get a life

taping has been going on since the day of Jimmie Johnson at least i think it's time to shut the H up and move on.

A first rounder has been taken.

MOVE ON!!!!!

 

[bryan215]

Not a problem as long as you also strip the 70s Steelers, and 90s Cowboys dynasties of their titles. Since they were all cheaters also: steroids/illegal stealing of signals as Jimmy Johnson admitted.

 

[Wu-banger]

get a lifetaping has been going on since the day of Jimmie Johnson at least i think it's time to shut the H up and move on. A first rounder has been taken.MOVE ON!!!!!

it amazes me how in a "shark pool" more people feel that the Patriots did shomething other franchises have never done..... seems the masses in here have no real insight to the NFL besides what the media portrays.You lemmings are either bitter your team lost OR your easily swayed by the media...like most of America.

 

[{Syrus}]

Signing in.

{Syrus}

 

[phthalatemagic]

Patriots = cheaters

But I do not think their titles should be removed, however Bill Belichick should be banned from the NFL permanently. Additionally Tom Brady and the rest of the teams should have three asterisks branded to their foreheads, as well as asterisks engraved on the trophies and Krafty should give a speech saying how his team sucks because it cheats.

 

[Monty Burns]

Not a problem as long as you also strip the 70s Steelers, and 90s Cowboys dynasties of their titles. Since they were all cheaters also: steroids/illegal stealing of signals as Jimmy Johnson admitted.

and add the Bronco's and 49'ers(?) who lost draft pick(s) when they got caught cheating on the cap

 

[thatguy]

get a lifetaping has been going on since the day of Jimmie Johnson at least i think it's time to shut the H up and move on. A first rounder has been taken.MOVE ON!!!!!

it amazes me how in a "shark pool" more people feel that the Patriots did shomething other franchises have never done..... seems the masses in here have no real insight to the NFL besides what the media portrays.You lemmings are either bitter your team lost OR your easily swayed by the media...like most of America.

Shame not everyone is as enlightened as you. You sir, you clearly see things that elude the mere mortals among you. Pity you are compelled to even attempt rational discussion with such sheep, for you of all people, what with your state of superior enlightenment, should realize the futility of such exercises.

 

[Wombat Killer]

We don't wipe out individual player stats when they cheat (steroids), why would we do it for an entire team?

 

[{Syrus}]

Not a problem as long as you also strip the 70s Steelers, and 90s Cowboys dynasties of their titles. Since they were all cheaters also: steroids/illegal stealing of signals as Jimmy Johnson admitted.

Link?

 

[Turbo]

Those darn Patriots make me soooooo angry!!! Grrrrrrr!!! I get sooooo mad just thinking about them beating my team!!! The only way they could possibly win games was by cheating. Stupid Tom Brady having babies with supermodels, running up the score & breaking passing records. Stupid Belicheat with his stupid sweatshirts!!! Don't worry guys, we will show them!!! We can fix them good with petitions, lawsuits and asterisks!!! Then we can find others to blame when our team gets beaten!!! Yeahhhhh!!!

 

[fred_1_15301]

Not a problem as long as you also strip the 70s Steelers, and 90s Cowboys dynasties of their titles. Since they were all cheaters also: steroids/illegal stealing of signals as Jimmy Johnson admitted.

Link?

. IF (and this is a big if) there is a tape of a walkthrough and IF no similar tape from any other team is found, THEN the Patriots titles come to question. IF there is proof that the Steelers players roided and IF similar proof is not found for other players from other teams THEN the Steelers titles come to question.

 

[jgb95]

this is the biggest joker in the place.

do you honestly think no other teams do this????

if so you're the naive one.

the sig is great!!!! I can see PATS D = choker but brady put them up by 4 with 2:30+ to go. How is that a choke?

 

[Pat Patriot]

Not a problem as long as you also strip the 70s Steelers, and 90s Cowboys dynasties of their titles. Since they were all cheaters also: steroids/illegal stealing of signals as Jimmy Johnson admitted.

Link?

. IF (and this is a big if) there is a tape of a walkthrough and IF no similar tape from any other team is found, THEN the Patriots titles come to question. IF there is proof that the Steelers players roided and IF similar proof is not found for other players from other teams THEN the Steelers titles come to question.

So which scandal supercedes the other? The Patriots videotaping or the Carolina Panthers with multiple players on steroids during their Super Bowl run? Do you really believe that Carolina should be the champs? Or should it be the Colts who the Pats dismantled in the AFC Conference Championship game?

 

[timschochet]

Although I haven't made up my mind on this issue (still waiting for more evidence) I have to say that one of the most annoying arguments I ever hear is:

"We're not the only ones doing it, everybody's doing it. To pick on just us is hypocritical."

You hear this argument all the time in every situation and it always sucks. Let's make this very clear once and for all:

Either something is wrong or it isn't. The amount of people who undertake an action has no relevance on the rightness or wrongness of that action. In the NFL, we define right and wrong based upon what the rules allow. If the Patriots broke the rules, it does not matter who else did so. If they broke the rules, they're wrong and need to be punished.

 

[HellToupee]

Signed,The Steeler NationBelichick/Goddell: Let's get ready to

Hey you don't speak for this Steeler fanthis is honestly one of the worst threads I've ever seen in the SPreally the only thing worse than whiny Pats fans are the sniveling ones complaining about them

 

[Pat Patriot]

Although I haven't made up my mind on this issue (still waiting for more evidence) I have to say that one of the most annoying arguments I ever hear is:"We're not the only ones doing it, everybody's doing it. To pick on just us is hypocritical."You hear this argument all the time in every situation and it always sucks. Let's make this very clear once and for all:Either something is wrong or it isn't. The amount of people who undertake an action has no relevance on the rightness or wrongness of that action. In the NFL, we define right and wrong based upon what the rules allow. If the Patriots broke the rules, it does not matter who else did so. If they broke the rules, they're wrong and need to be punished.

I dont think I have seen anyone deny the Patriots violated the rules. They were punished. The biggest punishment in league history.The extent that other teams were also using this practice tends to bring into light just how much of an advantage this was (which is to say very little). The fact that the majority of this board cant accept that the Patriots were penalized a 1st round pick for a rather minor infraction is ridiculous.I dont recall having this kind of hatred or bitterness when the Broncos and 49ers were caught violating NFL rules. Their punishment was much less and the uproar was non-existent.

 

[timschochet]

Although I haven't made up my mind on this issue (still waiting for more evidence) I have to say that one of the most annoying arguments I ever hear is:"We're not the only ones doing it, everybody's doing it. To pick on just us is hypocritical."You hear this argument all the time in every situation and it always sucks. Let's make this very clear once and for all:Either something is wrong or it isn't. The amount of people who undertake an action has no relevance on the rightness or wrongness of that action. In the NFL, we define right and wrong based upon what the rules allow. If the Patriots broke the rules, it does not matter who else did so. If they broke the rules, they're wrong and need to be punished.

I dont think I have seen anyone deny the Patriots violated the rules. They were punished. The biggest punishment in league history.The extent that other teams were also using this practice tends to bring into light just how much of an advantage this was (which is to say very little). The fact that the majority of this board cant accept that the Patriots were penalized a 1st round pick for a rather minor infraction is ridiculous.I dont recall having this kind of hatred or bitterness when the Broncos and 49ers were caught violating NFL rules. Their punishment was much less and the uproar was non-existent.

I agree with you to this extent: In order to give greater punishment to the Patriots, even to the extent of stripping titles, you would have to prove the following:1. That the Patriots clearly and knowingly cheated.2. That the cheating was DECISIVE in giving victories to the Patriots, including playoff and SB victories.Now I doubt you could ever prove this, especially #2. But if they do, then they probably should have their titles stripped. Otherwise no further punishment.

 

[baldbird]

Although I haven't made up my mind on this issue (still waiting for more evidence) I have to say that one of the most annoying arguments I ever hear is:"We're not the only ones doing it, everybody's doing it. To pick on just us is hypocritical."You hear this argument all the time in every situation and it always sucks. Let's make this very clear once and for all:Either something is wrong or it isn't. The amount of people who undertake an action has no relevance on the rightness or wrongness of that action. In the NFL, we define right and wrong based upon what the rules allow. If the Patriots broke the rules, it does not matter who else did so. If they broke the rules, they're wrong and need to be punished.

I agree they were cought for sure and lost a 1st rounder and a fine ( which means nothing ) Ok so take the 31st overall from them BiG DEAL . All they do now is take the $ they saved from sighning a unproven player in the 1st round and dump it into a proven FA ( prolly moss) And for the fine what a joke . belacheck should have been susp .you all want to bring up steroids well those guys that get cought cheating lose $ and miss games . This was a major thing the Pats did . do others do it maybe so . But they didnt get cought . I would never be happy if my team won by cheating . you Pats fans can defend them all you want . facts are facts . would you have won those SB games ? I guess we will never know for sure. I used to think they were class acts . But as a huge football fan i would love to see them get hit much harder then what they did . A statment in the league needs to be made . That its not ok to cheat . I HATE CHEATERS. I always tought my kids that if you cheat to win . You really didnt win .If you play fair and win you will feal so much better . There both teens now And 1 is a huge football fan as well. And he looked at me and said dad as a player on the Pats how can you even feel good about winning those SB now . And the truth is you cant as players or as fans . Its a horable thing that belecheck did to that organization. If i were Kraft he would be GONE GONE GONE .He needs to make a statement that he dont back that kinda crap up. Truth be told

 

[Pat Patriot]

Although I haven't made up my mind on this issue (still waiting for more evidence) I have to say that one of the most annoying arguments I ever hear is:

"We're not the only ones doing it, everybody's doing it. To pick on just us is hypocritical."

You hear this argument all the time in every situation and it always sucks. Let's make this very clear once and for all:

Either something is wrong or it isn't. The amount of people who undertake an action has no relevance on the rightness or wrongness of that action. In the NFL, we define right and wrong based upon what the rules allow. If the Patriots broke the rules, it does not matter who else did so. If they broke the rules, they're wrong and need to be punished.

I agree they were cought for sure and lost a 1st rounder and a fine ( which means nothing ) Ok so take the 31st overall from them BiG DEAL . All they do now is take the $ they saved from sighning a unproven player in the 1st round and dump it into a proven FA ( prolly moss) And for the fine what a joke . belacheck should have been susp .you all want to bring up steroids well those guys that get cought cheating lose $ and miss games . This was a major thing the Pats did . do others do it maybe so . But they didnt get cought . I would never be happy if my team won by cheating . you Pats fans can defend them all you want . facts are facts . would you have won those SB games ? I guess we will never know for sure. I used to think they were class acts . But as a huge football fan i would love to see them get hit much harder then what they did . A statment in the league needs to be made . That its not ok to cheat . I HATE CHEATERS. I always tought my kids that if you cheat to win . You really didnt win .If you play fair and win you will feal so much better . There both teens now And 1 is a huge football fan as well. And he looked at me and said dad as a player on the Pats how can you even feel good about winning those SB now . And the truth is you cant as players or as fans . Its a horable thing that belecheck did to that organization. If i were Kraft he would be GONE GONE GONE .He needs to make a statement that he dont back that kinda crap up. Truth be told

You make the assumption that Kraft didnt know what was going on. Kraft knows about everything that goes on in that organization.

 

[Das Boot]

But as a huge football fan i would love to see them get hit much harder then what they did . A statment in the league needs to be made . That its not ok to cheat . I HATE CHEATERS. I always tought my kids that if you cheat to win . You really didnt win .If you play fair and win you will feal so much better . There both teens now And 1 is a huge football fan as well. And he looked at me and said dad as a player on the Pats how can you even feel good about winning those SB now . And the truth is you cant as players or as fans .

Nice job, you summed up my feelings 100%

 

[Pat Patriot]

Some of you ought to do some research before deciding to put an * next to every Patriots title.

2001 Rams

If the Patriots had the Rams defensive signals they sure didnt show it. They won the game 20-17 and scored 14 of their points directly off of turnovers.

2003 Panthers

The Patriots did not play the Panthers in the regular season in 2003. What tapes could they have had that would have helped them? The last time the Pats played the Panthers was week 17 of the 2001 season. Doubt if that tape would have been much help.

2004 Eagles

The Patriots did not play the Eagles in the regular season in 2004. The last time the Patriots played the Eagles was in week 2 of the 2003 season. Dont see how that tape would help the Patriots.

So tell me again how the Spygate scandal puts into question the Patriots Super Bowl victories?

 

[cobalt_27]

Although I haven't made up my mind on this issue (still waiting for more evidence) I have to say that one of the most annoying arguments I ever hear is:

"We're not the only ones doing it, everybody's doing it. To pick on just us is hypocritical."

You hear this argument all the time in every situation and it always sucks. Let's make this very clear once and for all:

Either something is wrong or it isn't. The amount of people who undertake an action has no relevance on the rightness or wrongness of that action. In the NFL, we define right and wrong based upon what the rules allow. If the Patriots broke the rules, it does not matter who else did so. If they broke the rules, they're wrong and need to be punished.

I agree they were cought for sure and lost a 1st rounder and a fine ( which means nothing ) Ok so take the 31st overall from them BiG DEAL . All they do now is take the $ they saved from sighning a unproven player in the 1st round and dump it into a proven FA ( prolly moss) And for the fine what a joke . belacheck should have been susp .you all want to bring up steroids well those guys that get cought cheating lose $ and miss games . This was a major thing the Pats did . do others do it maybe so . But they didnt get cought . I would never be happy if my team won by cheating . you Pats fans can defend them all you want . facts are facts . would you have won those SB games ? I guess we will never know for sure. I used to think they were class acts . But as a huge football fan i would love to see them get hit much harder then what they did . A statment in the league needs to be made . That its not ok to cheat . I HATE CHEATERS. I always tought my kids that if you cheat to win . You really didnt win .If you play fair and win you will feal so much better . There both teens now And 1 is a huge football fan as well. And he looked at me and said dad as a player on the Pats how can you even feel good about winning those SB now . And the truth is you cant as players or as fans . Its a horable thing that belecheck did to that organization. If i were Kraft he would be GONE GONE GONE .He needs to make a statement that he dont back that kinda crap up. Truth be told

Cought. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[HellToupee]

Some of you ought to do some research before deciding to put an * next to every Patriots title.2001 RamsIf the Patriots had the Rams defensive signals they sure didnt show it. They won the game 20-17 and scored 14 of their points directly off of turnovers.2003 PanthersThe Patriots did not play the Panthers in the regular season in 2003. What tapes could they have had that would have helped them? The last time the Pats played the Panthers was week 17 of the 2001 season. Doubt if that tape would have been much help.2004 EaglesThe Patriots did not play the Eagles in the regular season in 2004. The last time the Patriots played the Eagles was in week 2 of the 2003 season. Dont see how that tape would help the Patriots.So tell me again how the Spygate scandal puts into question the Patriots Super Bowl victories?

hey you're living in PA and are a Pats fan and I'm living in MA and a Steelers fan

 

[baldbird]

Although I haven't made up my mind on this issue (still waiting for more evidence) I have to say that one of the most annoying arguments I ever hear is:

"We're not the only ones doing it, everybody's doing it. To pick on just us is hypocritical."

You hear this argument all the time in every situation and it always sucks. Let's make this very clear once and for all:

Either something is wrong or it isn't. The amount of people who undertake an action has no relevance on the rightness or wrongness of that action. In the NFL, we define right and wrong based upon what the rules allow. If the Patriots broke the rules, it does not matter who else did so. If they broke the rules, they're wrong and need to be punished.

I agree they were cought for sure and lost a 1st rounder and a fine ( which means nothing ) Ok so take the 31st overall from them BiG DEAL . All they do now is take the $ they saved from sighning a unproven player in the 1st round and dump it into a proven FA ( prolly moss) And for the fine what a joke . belacheck should have been susp .you all want to bring up steroids well those guys that get cought cheating lose $ and miss games . This was a major thing the Pats did . do others do it maybe so . But they didnt get cought . I would never be happy if my team won by cheating . you Pats fans can defend them all you want . facts are facts . would you have won those SB games ? I guess we will never know for sure. I used to think they were class acts . But as a huge football fan i would love to see them get hit much harder then what they did . A statment in the league needs to be made . That its not ok to cheat . I HATE CHEATERS. I always tought my kids that if you cheat to win . You really didnt win .If you play fair and win you will feal so much better . There both teens now And 1 is a huge football fan as well. And he looked at me and said dad as a player on the Pats how can you even feel good about winning those SB now . And the truth is you cant as players or as fans . Its a horable thing that belecheck did to that organization. If i were Kraft he would be GONE GONE GONE .He needs to make a statement that he dont back that kinda crap up. Truth be told

Cought. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think it means FOUND GUILTY like they were..

 

[thatguy]

Some of you ought to do some research before deciding to put an * next to every Patriots title.2001 RamsIf the Patriots had the Rams defensive signals they sure didnt show it. They won the game 20-17 and scored 14 of their points directly off of turnovers.2003 PanthersThe Patriots did not play the Panthers in the regular season in 2003. What tapes could they have had that would have helped them? The last time the Pats played the Panthers was week 17 of the 2001 season. Doubt if that tape would have been much help.2004 EaglesThe Patriots did not play the Eagles in the regular season in 2004. The last time the Patriots played the Eagles was in week 2 of the 2003 season. Dont see how that tape would help the Patriots.So tell me again how the Spygate scandal puts into question the Patriots Super Bowl victories?

I honestly don't have a horse in the race. I don't like the Pats, but I'm not ready to denounce everything they've done based on what we presently know. I'd like to see the truth come out, but until that happens, everything is mere speculation and not really worth anyone's energy.However, being as I presently have nothing better to do, I may as well expend a bit of my own energy on the topic, so...You can't look at the Super Bowl games in a vacuum... you've got to look at the larger picture of how the Patriots even made it to those Super Bowls. Regardless of whether their presumed illicit actions helped them in the Super Bowl games, it's a stretch to think that said actions did not potentially help them in any game, or number of games, prior to their getting to the big game in the first place. We all know the importance of momentum and such in the NFL, just look at this year's Giant's. The outcome of just one game can change the course of an entire season.Granted, history cannot be re-written based on what ifs, so IMO the results should stand, asterick free, regardless of what is found (unless the evidence leaves no doubt that the competitive advantage gained from wrong-doing clearly affected the outcome of even one game--I highly doubt this will be the case). Still, I think football fans and the rest of the NFL deserve answers and hopefully in time we will get them.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Some of you ought to do some research before deciding to put an * next to every Patriots title.2001 RamsIf the Patriots had the Rams defensive signals they sure didnt show it. They won the game 20-17 and scored 14 of their points directly off of turnovers.2003 PanthersThe Patriots did not play the Panthers in the regular season in 2003. What tapes could they have had that would have helped them? The last time the Pats played the Panthers was week 17 of the 2001 season. Doubt if that tape would have been much help.2004 EaglesThe Patriots did not play the Eagles in the regular season in 2004. The last time the Patriots played the Eagles was in week 2 of the 2003 season. Dont see how that tape would help the Patriots.So tell me again how the Spygate scandal puts into question the Patriots Super Bowl victories?

hey you're living in PA and are a Pats fan and I'm living in MA and a Steelers fan

Moved down here 3 years ago. Yeah, I thought you were a Red Sox fan, how did you become a Steelers fan?

 

[Pat Patriot]

Some of you ought to do some research before deciding to put an * next to every Patriots title.

2001 Rams

If the Patriots had the Rams defensive signals they sure didnt show it. They won the game 20-17 and scored 14 of their points directly off of turnovers.

2003 Panthers

The Patriots did not play the Panthers in the regular season in 2003. What tapes could they have had that would have helped them? The last time the Pats played the Panthers was week 17 of the 2001 season. Doubt if that tape would have been much help.

2004 Eagles

The Patriots did not play the Eagles in the regular season in 2004. The last time the Patriots played the Eagles was in week 2 of the 2003 season. Dont see how that tape would help the Patriots.

So tell me again how the Spygate scandal puts into question the Patriots Super Bowl victories?

I honestly don't have a horse in the race. I don't like the Pats, but I'm not ready to denounce everything they've done based on what we presently know. I'd like to see the truth come out, but until that happens, everything is mere speculation and not really worth anyone's energy.However, being as I presently have nothing better to do, I may as well expend a bit of my own energy on the topic, so...

You can't look at the Super Bowl games in a vacuum... you've got to look at the larger picture of how the Patriots even made it to those Super Bowls. Regardless of whether their presumed illicit actions helped them in the Super Bowl games, it's a stretch to think that said actions did not potentially help them in any game, or number of games, prior to their getting to the big game in the first place. We all know the importance of momentum and such in the NFL, just look at this year's Giant's. The outcome of just one game can change the course of an entire season.

Granted, history cannot be re-written based on what ifs, so IMO the results should stand, asterick free, regardless of what is found (unless the evidence leaves no doubt that the competitive advantage gained from wrong-doing clearly affected the outcome of even one game--I highly doubt this will be the case). Still, I think football fans and the rest of the NFL deserve answers and hopefully in time we will get them.

I dont disagree. As I said in a previous post, most fellow Pats fans that I have talked to are pissed off at Roger Goodell right now for leaving this issue open to fester. I'd rather that the Patriots are judged on what evidence there really was ( that the NFL destroyed ) rather than the ridiculous speculation that is going on now. People want to see the tapes. That is understandable. I just dont know what they think they will find on the tapes other than taping of the other teams defensive coaches.

 

[rascal]

Not a problem as long as you also strip the 70s Steelers, and 90s Cowboys dynasties of their titles. Since they were all cheaters also: steroids/illegal stealing of signals as Jimmy Johnson admitted.

and add the Bronco's and 49'ers(?) who lost draft pick(s) when they got caught cheating on the cap

You need to read some more on the Denver situation. It's been stated numerous times that their situation did not result in a competitive advantage.

 

[Road Warriors]

Not a problem as long as you also strip the 70s Steelers, and 90s Cowboys dynasties of their titles. Since they were all cheaters also: steroids/illegal stealing of signals as Jimmy Johnson admitted.

and add the Bronco's and 49'ers(?) who lost draft pick(s) when they got caught cheating on the cap

You need to read some more on the Denver situation. It's been stated numerous times that their situation did not result in a competitive advantage.

So has the Patriots situation, but that doesn't stop anyone here. Don't let facts get in the way of the lynching.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Not a problem as long as you also strip the 70s Steelers, and 90s Cowboys dynasties of their titles. Since they were all cheaters also: steroids/illegal stealing of signals as Jimmy Johnson admitted.

and add the Bronco's and 49'ers(?) who lost draft pick(s) when they got caught cheating on the cap

You need to read some more on the Denver situation. It's been stated numerous times that their situation did not result in a competitive advantage.

You need to read some more on the New England situation. It's been stated numerous times that their situation did not result in a competitive advantage.

 

[Jeff Tefertiller]

Hey guys, I know this is a topic where many have strong opinions, but lets turn it down a notch, please.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Relevant content from NFL.com...

Matt Walsh's lawyer asks NFL to protect his client on Spygate tapes

Associated Press

NEW YORK -- The lawyer for former New England Patriots employee Matt Walsh said his client is willing to turn over videotapes he made for the team if the NFL guarantees Walsh protection from lawsuits or other legal action.

Attorney Michael Levy said that to date, the NFL's initial proposals are not sufficient protection for Walsh, who is said to have taped the St. Louis Rams' walkthrough practice the day before they played the Patriots in the 2002 Super Bowl. The Patriots won 20-17.

"Under our proposal, Mr. Walsh is only protected if he in good faith is truthful. And he will be," Levy told The Associated Press on Friday in a telephone interview from his office at the Washington law firm of McKee Nelson.

"The NFL's proposal is not full indemnification. It is highly conditional and still leaves Mr. Walsh vulnerable. I have asked the NFL to provide Mr. Walsh with the necessary legal protections so that he can come forward with the truth without fear of retaliation and litigation. To best serve the interest of the public and everyone involved, I am hopeful that the NFL will do so promptly."

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has said he's offered Walsh a deal whereby "he has to tell the truth and he has to return anything he took improperly" in return for indemnity.

"No one wants to talk to Matt Walsh more than we do," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Friday.

"But his demand to be released from all responsibility even if his comments are not truthful is unprecedented and unreasonable. The NFL and the Patriots have assured Mr. Walsh's lawyer that there will be no adverse consequences for his client if Mr. Walsh truthfully shares what he knows. Why does he need any more protection than that?"

Walsh, now a golf pro in Maui, did video work for the Patriots when they won the first of their three Super Bowl after the 2001 season.

Goodell said Walsh was not interviewed as part of the NFL's investigation into "Spygate," which involved the NFL confiscating tapes from a Patriots employee who recorded the New York Jets' defensive signals from the sideline during the opening game of the 2007 season.

As a result of that investigation, New England coach Bill Belichick was fined $500,000 and the team was fined $250,000 and forfeited its 2008 first-round draft choice.

Six confiscated tapes and other documents pertaining to the Patriots' taping were subsequently destroyed by the league. Goodell has defended the destruction of the tapes.

Levy, who is continuing to negotiate with the NFL on Walsh's behalf, also objected to NFL security's investigation of his client.

"Sending a former FBI agent to investigate his professional and personal life has not left Mr. Walsh feeling confident that the National Football League simply wants to encourage him to come forward with whatever information he has," Levy said.

Goodell met this week with Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Specter and disclosed for the first time that the taping may have gone back to 2000, when Belichick first became coach of the Patriots. The commissioner said Belichick told him in their meeting last September that he believed the taping was legal. "We agreed to disagree," the commissioner said.

Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary committee, said after the meeting that he would continue to investigate the taping episodes. He has said he also would like to speak with Walsh.

Goodell said he could reopen the investigation.

"If there is new information that is credible, new material that could be credible that would help us, yes, we'll look at it," he said.

But Eric Holder, a partner in Covington & Burling, the NFL's outside law firm, suggested the NFL might remain reluctant to meet Walsh's current terms.

"No responsible investigator would offer blanket immunity to a potential witness without a commitment that the witness will be truthful," Holder said. "Any witness who refuses to make that commitment doesn't deserve immunity."

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

More relevant info from NFL.com

Steelers say taping didn't affect outcome of games against Patriots

Associated Press

PITTSBURGH -- The New England Patriots' taping of opposing coaches' signals did not affect the outcome of games against the Steelers, including two AFC Championship games, Steelers chairman Dan Rooney said Friday.

"We consider the tapes of our coaching staff during our games against the New England Patriots to be a non-issue," Rooney said in a statement. "In our opinion, they had no impact on the results of those games."

Rooney's comments were fueled by remarks Thursday by U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., who has questioned whether the NFL has properly handled allegations that Patriots coach Bill Belichick had assistants videotape opponents' signals.

NFL officials indicate the Patriots taped the Steelers' coaches during AFC Championship games at the end of the 2001 and 2004 seasons, and during regular-season games in 2002 and 2004, Specter said. The Steelers lost all but the 2004 regular-season game.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell fined Belichick $500,000 and the Patriots $250,000 and docked the team a first-round draft pick.

Specter has criticized Goodell for destroying the tapes after the league's internal investigation.

But Rooney said Goodell and the league took the "appropriate action" in punishing the Patriots.

"We are confident that the commissioner has taken appropriate action in his investigation of this matter, and will do so again if new information arises which requires further investigation and/or discipline," Rooney said.Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

 

[The Shizzle]

get a lifetaping has been going on since the day of Jimmie Johnson at least i think it's time to shut the H up and move on. A first rounder has been taken.MOVE ON!!!!!

Thats the right call.

 

[Filthy]

Those darn Patriots make me soooooo angry!!! Grrrrrrr!!! I get sooooo mad just thinking about them beating my team!!! The only way they could possibly win games was by cheating. Stupid Tom Brady having babies with supermodels, running up the score & breaking passing records. Stupid Belicheat with his stupid sweatshirts!!! Don't worry guys, we will show them!!! We can fix them good with petitions, lawsuits and asterisks!!! Then we can find others to blame when our team gets beaten!!! Yeahhhhh!!!

You forgot to add a big fat * next to Brady's accomplishments; including his knocking up supermodels. $10.00 says that guy paid someone else to schtup those women to remove those 'alternative' rumors from him. Hell, I'm guessing Belichick filmed that too just to help ol' Tommie break down the coverage.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Although I haven't made up my mind on this issue (still waiting for more evidence) I have to say that one of the most annoying arguments I ever hear is:"We're not the only ones doing it, everybody's doing it. To pick on just us is hypocritical."You hear this argument all the time in every situation and it always sucks. Let's make this very clear once and for all:Either something is wrong or it isn't. The amount of people who undertake an action has no relevance on the rightness or wrongness of that action. In the NFL, we define right and wrong based upon what the rules allow. If the Patriots broke the rules, it does not matter who else did so. If they broke the rules, they're wrong and need to be punished.

Umm...they were punished. Or do you mean for prior violations? Goodell has recently stated (some people have a problem that he ONLY recently stated) that Belichick was completely forthcoming re: prior videotaping, and that was factored into the punishment.

 

[HellToupee]

Those darn Patriots make me soooooo angry!!! Grrrrrrr!!! I get sooooo mad just thinking about them beating my team!!! The only way they could possibly win games was by cheating. Stupid Tom Brady having babies with supermodels, running up the score & breaking passing records. Stupid Belicheat with his stupid sweatshirts!!! Don't worry guys, we will show them!!! We can fix them good with petitions, lawsuits and asterisks!!! Then we can find others to blame when our team gets beaten!!! Yeahhhhh!!!

You forgot to add a big fat * next to Brady's accomplishments; including his knocking up supermodels. $10.00 says that guy paid someone else to schtup those women to remove those 'alternative' rumors from him. Hell, I'm guessing Belichick filmed that too just to help ol' Tommie break down the coverage.

I'm guessing you missed this http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=8214715

 

[PMENFAN]

My counter to this is if they thought they were breaking the rules, wouldn't they use hidden cameras of some sort, not a guy standing in the side open with a cam corder? the actions correlate with the admission. And, the actions and admissions completely counter the conspiracy theorists desires.

So, you're argument is basically, "If they were going to cheat, they wouldn't have done it out in the open where everyone could see it," right? If so, that would be like a MLB steroids user coming out and saying, "If I had cheated and used steroids, I wouldn't have been that stupid as to had someone else inject me with them; I would have done them where no one else saw what I was doing." See what I mean? When teams or players cheat, they are not thinking of the consequences. Arrogance can often causes players or teams trying to gain an advantage to take foolish risks.

I actually thing the better analogy would have been having the first base coach do the injection as the player rounded the bag with his most recent homerun. Whether somebody else was doing the injection or not, it wasn't in plain sight. The Patriots taper was in plain sight, obviously taping. Huge difference.

 

[PMENFAN]

What Mr. Spector, and others, need to realize is that the Commissioner is the ultimate authority on all issues NFL.

You're kidding, right?

Okay, not all issues, but most. He obviously doesn't negotiate contracts with individuals, but he has the power to nulllify they if they don't meet the league standards. Obviously there are situations where owners are the authority. But, on issues such as this one, he's the man. Arlen Spector can pretend he has jurisdiction, and may even try to grandstand, but at the end of the day it's a private sector business, with a neutral commissioner as the ultimate arbiter of league rules.

 

[PMENFAN]

Although I haven't made up my mind on this issue (still waiting for more evidence) I have to say that one of the most annoying arguments I ever hear is:

"We're not the only ones doing it, everybody's doing it. To pick on just us is hypocritical."

You hear this argument all the time in every situation and it always sucks. Let's make this very clear once and for all:

Either something is wrong or it isn't. The amount of people who undertake an action has no relevance on the rightness or wrongness of that action. In the NFL, we define right and wrong based upon what the rules allow. If the Patriots broke the rules, it does not matter who else did so. If they broke the rules, they're wrong and need to be punished.

People have readilly admitted it was a rules violation. The ruling authority has already doled out the punishment. The issue is closed, but some pretend it'[s a live issue. It's dead. the commish has ruled , and the penalty levied.