AAABatteries
Footballguy
Been doing 2-3 days in the office. If I could magically eliminate the 2 hours of commuting it wouldn’t be bad. I just work -4-6 hours less a week now.
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Get Your Butt Back To The Office (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter BassNBrew
- Start date
my company is 3 days in the office, same 3 days for everyone, tbh i think this hybrid system works the best, having the 2 days at home compared to pre pandemic is great, can have time to myself to get work done if need to, or relax a tad and get some things done around the house if have some free time. don't mind the office and even look forward to it sometimes for social reasons and to check out the babes (sorta joking not really too many babes at my co., but still...), think there is benefit to seeing people and building relationships in person.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
We’re 3 days, but no set schedule. Fridays is strongly recommended and then pick one other day
We definitely have people abusing it though, management wants to go back to 4 but I believe HR is pushing back (they know there would be backlash). We got a reminder on the policy the end of the year (like WFH doesn’t mean you go grocery shopping for 2 hours or ignore phone calls. Also had an example where someone refused to come in for a customer meeting on their WFH day)
We definitely have people abusing it though, management wants to go back to 4 but I believe HR is pushing back (they know there would be backlash). We got a reminder on the policy the end of the year (like WFH doesn’t mean you go grocery shopping for 2 hours or ignore phone calls. Also had an example where someone refused to come in for a customer meeting on their WFH day)
AAABatteries
Footballguy
People like that ruin it for everybody - what works well is when companies and employees have flexibility with each other.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Industry definitely matters. Our larger office has lost quite a few good people recently to fully remote jobs and there are a couple openings right now where I know I’d be highly competitive if I wanted to apply. But I like my office, 2x / week in the office is reasonable, and I actually like my job for the most part. If any of that was different, I’d be hopping.
Same here. I actually got a job listing from a recruiter that was almost exactly word for word what I do now and it was fully remote but I like my job and like the people I work with so decided not to pursue it. I dont mind going in the office once a week. Twice seems like overkill. Im hoping it fizzles out and goes back to once.
massraider
Footballguy
Is your industry conducive?
and are you valuable/good enough to have choices?
The story of this has been big tech layoffs, but there's a bunch of little universes out there where WFH is here to stay. I am interviewing accountants/controllers, there's not even a discussion, because why would they need to come to the office?
supermike80
Footballguy
I go to work, to my office, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I like going in. Hate working from home.
beer 30
Footballguy
Same with me. I can't stand having to depend on the WFH crowd, you can always tell when they are gone because they don't get back to you until late in the day or the following day. Not indicting anyone in this thread, I know there are a lot of positions that can be WFH, just speaking of the folks I work with who are worthless when they are "at home".
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I think we will be officially 2-days per week starting in Feb. Not sure if set schedule though - but that seems likely. What days do you like best having to go in? TW?
Full time work from home for me. We never went back in for my region as we had a small local office. Company just announced they are selling our space thats been sitting mostly empty for years. The larger regional locations went 2 days a week in the office back in September but a few of the smaller of those are getting sold too so those folks will switch to full time remote. Only issue for me personally is that they have gone to only backfilling/replacing employees that quit or retire in those larger regional offices where you have to come in some of the time. It’s better for training new people but a PITA to manage.
belljr
Footballguy
I go in M&W.... I love Monday because almost no one is there and most holidays fall on monday.
Probably isn't optimizing "group" time but idc
Scoresman
Footballguy
100% remote here. Our team deals with sensitive contractor bid information so we've been exempt from any return to office mandates. We have had a couple Gen Z-ers or whatever they were take advantage of this and not produce. It is so blatantly easy to spot when this happens, it's not a reasonable argument against WFH IMO.
Scoresman
Footballguy
Why are they still employed? Do you think the same people would be dazzling the management with their productivity if they were in the office?
Doug B
Footballguy
Different people have different conditions regarding work-from-home.
For me, I like work-from-home when I'm in the house alone, or if it's just me and the kids. If my wife is home, she doesn't always respect my work time. A common theme is for her to ask me to drop everything and do something, for me to reply "I will after I get off of work", and for her to reply "Why can't you -- you're home".
If your job went full remote for some reason, would you feel pressure to find a new job? Could you figure out a way to make do?
Doug B
Footballguy
I always feel like people who disappear when working from home are also the same people who are not superstars when they're physically present in the office. Goes double now that we're in the era of smart phones -- at worst, check your work emails/Teams messages (better yet, set notifications) if you're not at your home workspace and let people know you saw their message and you'll get back to them ASAP.
Some people are mostly conscientious about work-from-home, but get caught on their back foot now and again. But if disappearing while working from home is an ongoing habit ... that's no better than being in the office and spending all day on Facebook. Or taking unsanctioned 3 hour lunches while "in the office".
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
i do feel bad for my colleagues that have to do this. One is on my team and commutes from roughly 50 miles away and with los angeles traffic (shes lives almost two counties over) that's left half her day.
beer 30
Footballguy
I wish I knew but our HR has made it extremely difficult to fire someone even with writing documentation. I'll try not to come off as an old curmudgeon but if you're a woman in employee of my company now, short of blowing the place up, you can't get fired regardless of work effort. The particular individual's I direct my WFH ire at know this and do the minimum possible to stay employed. They don't put in any more effort when they are here and tend to disappear when at home. It boils down to nobody wants to have a hard conversation with anyone anymore.
It's not hard to F off and still handle your job on a minimum basis at least until you get back in front of a screen. They don't even bother to do that. As you mentioned, most are pretty good about WFH and not abusing it but there are always the few who take advantage and it just pisses me off. A lot of what we do is time sensitive and not having a reliable go to just disrupts the whole business.
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
yea because of people like this they are now talking 4 days a week instead of 3. i don't work for big tech but i do work in tech so it sucks to be in a position where i was actually more flexible before covid and now because everyone else not in tech are scruitinized i have to constantly justify my team/time/production and either listen to someone complain about their commute for an hour (complain for an hour, not communte for an hour) or management complain about people not commuting in for an hour. middle management still sucks too.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Same. I couldn't imagine WFH 100%.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
First day back at work for many people was Tuesday this week. My team and I have been in the whole time, at least a few days/week. it felt strange seeing all the folks there, and it was LOUD. Did not enjoy the Zoom calls from my cube. Anyway, we'll see how long the VPs are putting in the 3 days/week as requested.
beer 30
Footballguy
Something I've noticed and I think it was touched on upthread some but I see this creating a bit of a divide between employees that normally wouldn't have any issues if everyone was under one roof. There is a "them vs us" kinda vibe here with some of the folks.
I think it was discussed that employers aren't giving larger raises to those who opt for WFH as opposed to those who come into the office. This is going to separate the white collar workforce for as long as it goes on.
Scoresman
Footballguy
I think for a large amount of people, COVID and remote work made them realize that commuting into an office provided zero benefits for them and their work so I can completely understand why they would be upset about being forced into the office "just because" and it creating a divide between those who like it and those who see it as pointless. Obvious caveat is that it depends on the job, but there are many people forced into the office for no good reason at all by these policies.
My job is included in this. It would be absolutely pointless to make our team go into the office, forcing us to take on a commute, etc. I would probably be bitter if we were blindly forced to go in. Luckily I'm with a large company that has not forced the issue on anyone so far.
And yeah, raises should be given based on productivity. Raises should not be given just because someone is physically present in the office.
TLEF316
Footballguy
100%. There are gonna be a lot of younger workers (Gen Z'ers and younger millennials) whose career is probably going to be stunted a little because they cling too hard to working from home. And they're not gonna be happy about it.
I get it....most while collar jobs can be done from home without any problems if the person doing them has the right attitude and work ethic. But unless you are an absolute undeniable superstar, the people who are in the office building the relationships 8 hours a day (not just the hour a day you might be on a zoom call with 6 other people) are gonna get the tie-breaker. Most of the hiring managers and decision makers are still older and they're gonna reward the people they have more of a bond with and see in the office.
I've seen it already in my company. Lots of late 20 somethings have gotten annoyed about not getting promotions to team lead and lower management spots and jump ship to another company for a raise (often regretting it and coming back a year later). Maybe its not fair...but the 50 year old VP making the decision doesn't know you, man. You might be smart and capable with a lot of potential but who you know (and who knows YOU) is often more important than what you know.
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Scoresman
Footballguy
Our office has tons of happy hours and other outside work events for relationship building like this. I think in-office relationship building is a little overrated as it applies to companies I have worked for and possibly others. I'm on the phone or teams with my direct managers everyday. There is no lost relationship building happening there. When it comes to higher up managers, I'd never see them in the office anyway. They make it to about one outside work event a quarter and that's the time you get with them really. And even then, they rely on the mid level managers for promotion recommendations.
If you're in a situation where you are WFH and don't communicate with your manager on a regular basis, and they are in the office and you are not, then I could see where you could sort of become invisible.
Most companies i believe have set policies so it's more or less same for all employess, maybe there are different rules for IT or something but generally the same so not sure how much there are situations where some are going in and some aren't. And if is on optional basis well then people are making their choice. Also majority of companies are hybrid anyway which for most part allows for enough time to relationship build.
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
A related issue at my office is that they are doing renovation on one of the 4 buildings on campus (about 1000 people work in this campus). That building had corporate leadership (executive VPs, SBU Presidents, etc). They had their own little row with fancy offices and such before reno.
Well that group moved into the attached building on the same floor next to mine. I'm not sure who made this call but they put restricted card key access to that floor. By doing so, they limited a convenient ingress point to my floor from the parking lot with fewer stairs and shorter distance than other entrances. So the rank and file are locked out of an office space that they used to be able to use for conference rooms, etc.
To me, this is a pretty stupid choice to make. With people coming back to work, I don't know why they would want to foster an us vs them mentality with corporate leadership. Certainly doesn't feel like "we're all in this together." It feel likes those leaders don't want to have the rank and file know how often they are in the office and don't want to form relationships with those below their level. Plus I don't understand how this will work? What if an eVP wants one of their direct reports to come to his office for a face to face chat? That person is gonna wait outside in the hallway until they get let in? So dumb.
The icing on the cake is that about 3 months ago they installed these fancy coffee machines that grind beans on the fly and have fresh milk for lattes, etc. It was really nice and showed that they want to make the workplace a location where you want to come. Anyway, last week they took out the fresh milk portion I suppose because of extra labor to clean and maintain. But guess which coffee machine will still have fresh milk? Yup, the one with the executives.
Not sure why it grinds my gears so much but it does. I mentioned it to an HR leader that i know well and she didn't seem to care about the message it sent to the rank and file. That's likely because her office is now in that gilded space.
Well that group moved into the attached building on the same floor next to mine. I'm not sure who made this call but they put restricted card key access to that floor. By doing so, they limited a convenient ingress point to my floor from the parking lot with fewer stairs and shorter distance than other entrances. So the rank and file are locked out of an office space that they used to be able to use for conference rooms, etc.
To me, this is a pretty stupid choice to make. With people coming back to work, I don't know why they would want to foster an us vs them mentality with corporate leadership. Certainly doesn't feel like "we're all in this together." It feel likes those leaders don't want to have the rank and file know how often they are in the office and don't want to form relationships with those below their level. Plus I don't understand how this will work? What if an eVP wants one of their direct reports to come to his office for a face to face chat? That person is gonna wait outside in the hallway until they get let in? So dumb.
The icing on the cake is that about 3 months ago they installed these fancy coffee machines that grind beans on the fly and have fresh milk for lattes, etc. It was really nice and showed that they want to make the workplace a location where you want to come. Anyway, last week they took out the fresh milk portion I suppose because of extra labor to clean and maintain. But guess which coffee machine will still have fresh milk? Yup, the one with the executives.
Not sure why it grinds my gears so much but it does. I mentioned it to an HR leader that i know well and she didn't seem to care about the message it sent to the rank and file. That's likely because her office is now in that gilded space.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Does it grind your gears or beans?
Scoresman
Footballguy
Not surprising. The moral here is to never forget that companies don’t give two freakin ****s about you or the other employees.
Show up, do well enough to advance to where you want to be, and go home. Nothing more.
nightmare
Footballguy
Sounds like the perfect place for an upper decker. The office has ceiling tiles?
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
That really bothers me more than it should probably
beer 30
Footballguy
Remote workers 35% more likely to be fired than those who return to office
There's a WSJ article as well but it's behind a paywall so I linked this one.
There's a WSJ article as well but it's behind a paywall so I linked this one.
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
We're still at 50% in the office, and they pull badge reports monthly to verify a minimum amount of in-person attendance. I wasn't feeling well late last week and actually took two full sick days. I would have just worked at home at least part of those days but didn't want them counting against my 50% for this month.
Now I'm in the office on Monday morning and nobody else is here. It's still early, but we have about 60 folks in this office and I'm here solo.
Not sure how any of this makes sense.
Now I'm in the office on Monday morning and nobody else is here. It's still early, but we have about 60 folks in this office and I'm here solo.
Not sure how any of this makes sense.
My firm has 6 admin staff(including me) and 9 attorneys. The partners instituted full back in office for all admin a year ago but allow work from home for the attorneys. Last Friday there were no attorneys and 5 staff in the office with one out sick. It's like this more than it's not. Glad the partners and attorneys are cultivating a good work culture in the office.
RHIP
RHIP
Nugget
Footballguy
I think we are seeing this a bit at work. We had a group that we had outsourced to a contractor in Florida to provide support by phone. That contract is being shifted to Mexico this spring. I also work with groups that are based in Hungary and India.
belljr
Footballguy
See that **** drives me insane...... Listen I understand that different jobs have different requirements and or ability to work remotely....... but to have different rules for different people that have similar work flow drives me insane.My firm has 6 admin staff(including me) and 9 attorneys. The partners instituted full back in office for all admin a year ago but allow work from home for the attorneys. Last Friday there were no attorneys and 5 staff in the office with one out sick. It's like this more than it's not. Glad the partners and attorneys are cultivating a good work culture in the office.
Our company did that - certain groups had to be here more than others and we all support the same system and there was no rhyme or reason - it was just a because - managers descrection.
Runkle
Footballguy
My office is getting rid of the office phones.
Make us show up here to work remotely (none of the projects I manage are on-site, so, it's the exact same desk job shuffling emails work we do remotely, just, under their roof instead of my own) and then we still have to use our cell phones. It's so pointless
belljr
Footballguy
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AT LEAST SET IT TO VIBRATE$@@#$!@#$@@@#$
My office is getting rid of the office phones.
Make us show up here to work remotely (none of the projects I manage are on-site, so, it's the exact same desk job shuffling emails work we do remotely, just, under their roof instead of my own) and then we still have to use our cell phones. It's so pointless
nirad3
Footballguy
We got rid of desk phones about 6 months ago. We switched to Teams for messaging, video conferencing, and as of 6 months ago, phone calls as well.
My office is getting rid of the office phones.
Make us show up here to work remotely (none of the projects I manage are on-site, so, it's the exact same desk job shuffling emails work we do remotely, just, under their roof instead of my own) and then we still have to use our cell phones. It's so pointless
For some reason they make me come into the office at least twice a week so I'm here to answer any questions that our support staff have (although they could just as easily call someone on Teams). Our two "higher ups" both work remote full-time (out of state). Not exactly "fair", per se.
That said, they did just add a $50/month cell phone reimbursement since a lot of work is done remotely and we use our cells quite a bit.
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
this is largely why I had asked the question. adding to this post, my two managers, that is my boss and his boss, both are very vocal about not wanting to be in the office and yet they come into meetings telling everyone they have to be in the office because the company said so. who would feel good about following this type of narrative?See that **** drives me insane...... Listen I understand that different jobs have different requirements and or ability to work remotely....... but to have different rules for different people that have similar work flow drives me insane.My firm has 6 admin staff(including me) and 9 attorneys. The partners instituted full back in office for all admin a year ago but allow work from home for the attorneys. Last Friday there were no attorneys and 5 staff in the office with one out sick. It's like this more than it's not. Glad the partners and attorneys are cultivating a good work culture in the office.
Our company did that - certain groups had to be here more than others and we all support the same system and there was no rhyme or reason - it was just a because - managers descrection.
beer 30
Footballguy
Dude next me leaves his phone on high volume because he's hard of hearing so every time it rings, pretty much all of us jump or yell out "GOT IT!" He doesn't care (he is a good dude) and we poke fun about it but it does get annoying when you're on a Teams call.FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AT LEAST SET IT TO VIBRATE$@@#$!@#$@@@#$
My office is getting rid of the office phones.
Make us show up here to work remotely (none of the projects I manage are on-site, so, it's the exact same desk job shuffling emails work we do remotely, just, under their roof instead of my own) and then we still have to use our cell phones. It's so pointless
belljr
Footballguy
We have a guy that is 70 - same thing good dude - been here 50 years but starting to you know be 70 - his ring tone is the marine hymm at top volume - but the worst part is he will leave his phone in his cube and go somewhere else to work on whatever and it sits here and ringsDude next me leaves his phone on high volume because he's hard of hearing so every time it rings, pretty much all of us jump or yell out "GOT IT!" He doesn't care (he is a good dude) and we poke fun about it but it does get annoying when you're on a Teams call.FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AT LEAST SET IT TO VIBRATE$@@#$!@#$@@@#$
My office is getting rid of the office phones.
Make us show up here to work remotely (none of the projects I manage are on-site, so, it's the exact same desk job shuffling emails work we do remotely, just, under their roof instead of my own) and then we still have to use our cell phones. It's so pointless
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
My firm has 6 admin staff(including me) and 9 attorneys. The partners instituted full back in office for all admin a year ago but allow work from home for the attorneys. Last Friday there were no attorneys and 5 staff in the office with one out sick. It's like this more than it's not. Glad the partners and attorneys are cultivating a good work culture in the office.
My small law firm is the opposite. All 4 lawyers are in the office almost every day (by choice, its optional) whereas our staff is about 80% remote. We schedule at least one staff person to be here every day because there are some tasks that can't be done remotely. Today is a typical day - 4 lawyers, one staff member here; 4 staff members remote.
Where are firm fubared everything was not taking advantage of covid to set up the staff to work remote. Only attorneys can access our server so if staff are home they cant work. Sucked last week when we got snow and one of the partners need assistance getting something out and no one was in the office to help. Thye claim it's an insurance liability issue having non-billable folks with access but I think they're ignorant of realities of the world these days. We are an outdated firm in many ways always behind the times. One of the reasons Im looking to leave, ftr.My firm has 6 admin staff(including me) and 9 attorneys. The partners instituted full back in office for all admin a year ago but allow work from home for the attorneys. Last Friday there were no attorneys and 5 staff in the office with one out sick. It's like this more than it's not. Glad the partners and attorneys are cultivating a good work culture in the office.
My small law firm is the opposite. All 4 lawyers are in the office almost every day (by choice, its optional) whereas our staff is about 80% remote. We schedule at least one staff person to be here every day because there are some tasks that can't be done remotely. Today is a typical day - 4 lawyers, one staff member here; 4 staff members remote.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Where are firm fubared everything was not taking advantage of covid to set up the staff to work remote. Only attorneys can access our server so if staff are home they cant work. Sucked last week when we got snow and one of the partners need assistance getting something out and no one was in the office to help. Thye claim it's an insurance liability issue having non-billable folks with access but I think they're ignorant of realities of the world these days. We are an outdated firm in many ways always behind the times. One of the reasons Im looking to leave, ftr.My firm has 6 admin staff(including me) and 9 attorneys. The partners instituted full back in office for all admin a year ago but allow work from home for the attorneys. Last Friday there were no attorneys and 5 staff in the office with one out sick. It's like this more than it's not. Glad the partners and attorneys are cultivating a good work culture in the office.
My small law firm is the opposite. All 4 lawyers are in the office almost every day (by choice, its optional) whereas our staff is about 80% remote. We schedule at least one staff person to be here every day because there are some tasks that can't be done remotely. Today is a typical day - 4 lawyers, one staff member here; 4 staff members remote.
I guess it hard for me to comment but it seems insane to have a system that can't be accessed remotely in 2024. To say its a liability issue? That doesn't ring true to me.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ibm-...e-184216743.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=ma
IBM: Report to the office by August or be fired
IBM: Report to the office by August or be fired
Scoresman
Footballguy
Most of these IBM offices they want people to move near are in California, where nobody who is targeted by this mandate can afford real estate. Hope they're prepared to lose talent.
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