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Houston Texans sign DE Mario Williams (1 Viewer)

PHENOMENAL! Re-do all the mocks, let the spin begin everywhere.

I have to give Mort credit, I listened to McShay, Mayock, Kiper, GM Jr. and Mort today and Mort is the only one that said this was going to happen. He said everyone wrongly assumed the Texans were using Williams as leverage but they really did see him as the #1 guy.

Mort also said that Ron Wolf keeps in touch with six current GMs on a regular basis and, for the first time since Wolf retired, all six GMs have a unanimous opinion on which player was the best prospect...Mario Williams.
With you Jason. :thumbup: to Mort.J
The thing with Ron Wolf is impressive
 
Mario Williams likely could have been had pick four or so. Not getting value out of what was a very valuable commodity is what's stupid here -- not taking Mario over Reggie.
:goodposting: Bingo

 
The Saints were talking to Green Bay about Walker right?  I wonder if they are on the phone talking a package including Walker, picks and swapping spots?
Probably too fantasy friendly to happen, BUT Javon Walker plus the 5th for the 2nd? That's fairly equivalent value actually.
I like that deal, but:A) the Saints would want to give Walker a physical first; and

B) they probably would want to talk to Walker about a new contract

And there just isn't time.
If NFL GMs based their draft decisions on what the consensus fans wanted, they would be out of their jobs VERY quickly.
You are right, but the fans buy the tickets and the merchandise. If the team isn't winning now they'll blame the pick for years to come. Picking Bush would have been a no brainer marketing move. (If Bush is as advertised it will be even worse)Calls I just got from a few Texans fans...."Even if they were getting killed, with Bush at least I'd have a reason to watch. I'm going to start rooting for the Cowboys." :wall:
If Casserly believes Mario Williams makes the Texans a playoff team...this was the right move. Texans fans will be LOVING this kid if he gets double digit sacks and helps push Houston into the 'offs for the first time.
I definitely agree that if Casserly believes Mario makes them better than Bush in the short and long term then from a football standpoint you take Mario.But the upside isn't close.

Texans fans will be loving Mario if he does we'll and the team starts winning.

NO/NYJ/Whoever fans + Fans around the whole country will be loving Reggie Bush if he perfomes as expected and the team does well.
Let's flesh this out...1) Bush's upside is arguably Gayle Sayers, Marshall Faulk...i.e., a HOF caliber multi-purpose back

2) Williams' upside is arguably Bruce Smith, Reggie White...i.e., a HOF caliber, two-way defensive end

Both have HOF caliber upside...how is that "not close?"

Why are people having trouble accepting that both of these guys carried off the charts grades on most draft boards?

 
WOW

Houston just lost a LOT of money. Reggie Bush immediately increases ticket sales, jersey sales, etc. In the long run they are losing money even if they paid Mario less.

It could end up working out for them, but Houston definitely took a risky move without much upside.
:confused: 1) Houston is one of the top-five revenue generating teams in the NFL already

2) Houston sells out every game

3) NFL teams don't keep jersey sales, it's split amongst the teams

4) They're not giving Mario Williams a discount
Houston sells out every game? I'm kind of shocked, granted i only get to watch a couple Houston games a year, but when i saw them the stadium didn't look sold out.Whether they are top five or not is kind of irrelevant, even if they were first, why not increase the revenue even more. Bush is a marketing dream, if he is everything people think he is he could become the main face of the NFL.

But winning is the ultimate goal, so if Houston truly believes Mario wil help their team win more than Bush than Kudos to them for not being lured by the Reggie hype.
Houston definately sells out every game. Houston is a huge city with a great fan base......Well, they HAD a great fan base, not so sure now...... :ph34r:
I didn't know the Texans franchise was so successful. Why the heck did the Oilers ever move to Nashville?
I think it had a lot to do with stadium issues. Tennessee gave them a new stadium. Houston built one later on but the Oilers were playing in the Astrodome. The Astrodome was phenomenal in its day but it was old and outdated and couldn't updated the way the Oilers wanted. Houston wouldn't give him what he wanted, his own stadium, so they moved. Nothing to do with fanbase. Houston is the fourth largest city in the US by the way.... ;)

 
5 years from now this could be looked back on as one of the biggest draft blunders in recent memory.
Sadly yes. Even if it's not. If both guys go on to be stars, Bush will by far get more hype. It would be a LaDainian Tomlinson vs Julius Peppers thing.J
I have already said I think it will be a mistake, but a great DE, like Peppers, is much harder to find than a great RB. LT vs Peppers? Peppers every day of the week and twice on Sundays. The question, though, is will Williams be the next Peppers?As much as I like Williams, I feel the odds of him being a Peppers-like player are worse than Bush being a LT talent.
Hi Dave,I agree with you. RBs get the attention from most fans and it's tough for them to understand the value of a game changing DE and go against the hype.

J

 
For what it's worth, Saints have called Reggie Bush's agent and told him they plan to select him with the 2nd pick :shrug:
they have to do this to get maximum trade value.... with so many teams after him (bottom line said Jets, Raiders and Packers were 3 of 5 to have called) they will likely trade him after the pick.
 
For what it's worth, Saints have called Reggie Bush's agent and told him they plan to select him with the 2nd pick :shrug:
Well, at least I know I can do some things and tune it at 1 for when the draft really starts.
 
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Not too shabby for 11:22 pm ET :coffee:

 
PFT is speculating that Bush doesn't want to go to the Saints and the Saints don't want him anyways.

POSTED 10:10 p.m. EDT; UPDATED 10:36 p.m. EDT, April 28, 2006

SEGAL PLANNING A BAYOU POWER PLAY

A league source tells us that agent Joel Segal plans to take the position that tailback Reggie Bush will not play for the New Orleans Saints.

The move, the source surmises, is aimed at allowing Segal to save some face after blowing Bush's shot to be the first overall pick in the draft.

The source also tells us that the Texans opted to tab defensive end Mario Williams with the No. 1 overall pick due to Bush and Segal's sky-high monetary demands. Segal, we're told, wanted $30 million in guaranteed money -- a 25 percent increase over the $24 million in guaranteed money that quarterback Alex Smith received as the No. 1 overall pick in 2005. Although Bush's recent P.R. problems didn't, we hear, play a role in the Texans' decision, word is that the multiple issues regarding Bush and his family caused the Texans to conclude that the fan base would be more likely to accept the decision to draft Williams.

As to the Saints, the thinking is that they are more than happy to fall out of the No. 2 spot, and the financial commitment that it requires. The Jets are an obvious choice to make a move, and they've got the No. 29 overall pick to throw into the mix.

Under the trade value chart, however, the Jets would still need 160 points to justify the transaction. The No. 2 pick is worth 2,600 points, the No. 4 selection is worth 1,800, and the No. 29 pick has a value of 640.

If a trade goes down between the Jets and Saints, New Orleans would draft tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson or linebacker A.J. Hawk at No.4.

ESPN's Sal Paolantonio reports that the Packers and the Raiders have contacted the Saints about a possible trade up, as have the Cardinals. The Cardinals, interestingly, would make the move not to draft Bush -- which would drop him to at least No. 3.

The Cardinals, we figure, would make the move in order to nab Ferguson. Then the question becomes whether the Titans stick with Vince Young, or whether they select Bush.

The most intriguing landing spot for Bush is Green Bay, where he would provide the kind of Reggie White impact for which Lord Favre recently has been whining. Ironically, Favre wrote off in his press conference about nothing from April 8 the possible impactof any rookie in 2006.

Brett might feel differently if the rookie they end up with is Reggie Bush.

And the Saints could still slide to the five hole and get Ferguson or Hawk. New Orleans also would be slotted one spot lower, meaning less money required to sign the player.
 
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For what it's worth, Saints have called Reggie Bush's agent and told him they plan to select him with the 2nd pick :shrug:
Well, at least I know I can do some things and tune it at 1 for when the draft really starts.
Hey Cappy...I think the Saints are merely doing the smart thing by maximizing the trade leverage. If they can't get someone to trade up for fair value, they will take him (so they're not lying). Meanwhile, the teams trying to move up (Jets, SF, Oakland) have a little more impetus to get serious quickly with the negotiations.
 
just posted a sep thread on this PFT story - could be a big manning power play!

 
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4) Ron Wolf reported that six out of six GMs he's close with rated Williams the best player, not Bush
wonder if any of the 6 gm's are talking to the saints now... :bye:
I'm sure they are, but you would have to think the Texans must have explored trading the number 1 without success. Not sure the saints are going to be able to do any better, but you never know. That's what makes it interesting.
 
For what it's worth, Saints have called Reggie Bush's agent and told him they plan to select him with the 2nd pick :shrug:
so whats the deal here?can they afford to pay bush with that contract they just signed duece to?

 
I'm sure they are, but you would have to think the Texans must have explored trading the number 1 without success. Not sure the saints are going to be able to do any better, but you never know. That's what makes it interesting.
The reason I think they'll have more success is because Bush won't be able to get the money he was demanding at #1 now that Williams has set the bar.
 
I'd give my left testicle to be a fly in the wall in NO war room right now.
I'd like to see that too, Lhucks. (Although not enough to give my left testicle)What's going to be interesting I think is what Tennessee does on the clock if Bush doesn't go to New Orleans.

Surely though the Saints had a solid plan in place for this. They're idiots if they didn't think this was a very real possibility.

J

 
The Saints were talking to Green Bay about Walker right?  I wonder if they are on the phone talking a package including Walker, picks and swapping spots?
Probably too fantasy friendly to happen, BUT Javon Walker plus the 5th for the 2nd? That's fairly equivalent value actually.
I like that deal, but:A) the Saints would want to give Walker a physical first; and

B) they probably would want to talk to Walker about a new contract

And there just isn't time.
If NFL GMs based their draft decisions on what the consensus fans wanted, they would be out of their jobs VERY quickly.
You are right, but the fans buy the tickets and the merchandise. If the team isn't winning now they'll blame the pick for years to come. Picking Bush would have been a no brainer marketing move. (If Bush is as advertised it will be even worse)Calls I just got from a few Texans fans...."Even if they were getting killed, with Bush at least I'd have a reason to watch. I'm going to start rooting for the Cowboys." :wall:
If Casserly believes Mario Williams makes the Texans a playoff team...this was the right move. Texans fans will be LOVING this kid if he gets double digit sacks and helps push Houston into the 'offs for the first time.
I definitely agree that if Casserly believes Mario makes them better than Bush in the short and long term then from a football standpoint you take Mario.But the upside isn't close.

Texans fans will be loving Mario if he does we'll and the team starts winning.

NO/NYJ/Whoever fans + Fans around the whole country will be loving Reggie Bush if he perfomes as expected and the team does well.
Let's flesh this out...1) Bush's upside is arguably Gayle Sayers, Marshall Faulk...i.e., a HOF caliber multi-purpose back

2) Williams' upside is arguably Bruce Smith, Reggie White...i.e., a HOF caliber, two-way defensive end

Both have HOF caliber upside...how is that "not close?"

Why are people having trouble accepting that both of these guys carried off the charts grades on most draft boards?
Probably cause there are a lot of dyno fantasy players on this board who gave up the farm for Bush thinking he would be in HOU and now things aren't going according to the grand scheme :cry:
 
4) Ron Wolf reported that six out of six GMs he's close with rated Williams the best player, not Bush
wonder if any of the 6 gm's are talking to the saints now... :bye:
I'm sure they are, but you would have to think the Texans must have explored trading the number 1 without success. Not sure the saints are going to be able to do any better, but you never know. That's what makes it interesting.
1.02 is 400 less points than 1.01, by the draft value system. Big difference!
 
The Saints were talking to Green Bay about Walker right? I wonder if they are on the phone talking a package including Walker, picks and swapping spots?
Probably too fantasy friendly to happen, BUT Javon Walker plus the 5th for the 2nd? That's fairly equivalent value actually.
I like that deal, but:A) the Saints would want to give Walker a physical first; and

B) they probably would want to talk to Walker about a new contract

And there just isn't time.
If NFL GMs based their draft decisions on what the consensus fans wanted, they would be out of their jobs VERY quickly.
You are right, but the fans buy the tickets and the merchandise. If the team isn't winning now they'll blame the pick for years to come. Picking Bush would have been a no brainer marketing move. (If Bush is as advertised it will be even worse)Calls I just got from a few Texans fans...."Even if they were getting killed, with Bush at least I'd have a reason to watch. I'm going to start rooting for the Cowboys." :wall:
If Casserly believes Mario Williams makes the Texans a playoff team...this was the right move. Texans fans will be LOVING this kid if he gets double digit sacks and helps push Houston into the 'offs for the first time.
I definitely agree that if Casserly believes Mario makes them better than Bush in the short and long term then from a football standpoint you take Mario.But the upside isn't close.

Texans fans will be loving Mario if he does we'll and the team starts winning.

NO/NYJ/Whoever fans + Fans around the whole country will be loving Reggie Bush if he perfomes as expected and the team does well.
Let's flesh this out...1) Bush's upside is arguably Gayle Sayers, Marshall Faulk...i.e., a HOF caliber multi-purpose back

2) Williams' upside is arguably Bruce Smith, Reggie White...i.e., a HOF caliber, two-way defensive end

Both have HOF caliber upside...how is that "not close?"

Why are people having trouble accepting that both of these guys carried off the charts grades on most draft boards?
I've never said it was a bad move from a football standpoint.I'm talking more about overall upside (business + football). Reggie Bush due to his style and being an offensive player can put the Texans on the map nationally.

No one cares about the Texans outside of Houston. I'm just shocked they ignored the benifits that come with drafting Reggie Bush.

 
The Jets fans would be ecstatic with Bush - though landing Brick and getting a 2nd tier RB at 29 really makes the most sense.

 
As soon as I heard about this I decided to get drunk because in my dynasty league I own Dominick Davis. My team is saved THANK GOD! :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned:

 
For what it's worth, Saints have called Reggie Bush's agent and told him they plan to select him with the 2nd pick :shrug:
so whats the deal here?can they afford to pay bush with that contract they just signed duece to?
Deuce's deal is hardly prohibitive...He signed an 8-year, $50 million deal that included $12.5 million in bonuses

$7 million in a signing bonus (pro rated at $1 million per year for seven years)

$5.5 million in roster bonuses due this June (and to count 100% in this year's cap)

His salaries escalate considerably...

2006 1450000.00
2007 2600000.00
2008 3600000.00
2009 5200000.00
2010 6200000.00
2011 7100000.00
2012 8100000.00The Saints could cut McAllister after the 2006 season and take a $5 million hit, at most...hardly prohibitive.

 
Gore is a good young talent and he averaged almost 5 ypc (4.8).

The point is the 49ers have too many other holes to fill to trade away all their picks.
I'm not saying the 49ers should pull a Ditka, and I don't think anyone is. But if the 49ers can get Bush for the price of 3 picks, or 2 picks and a player or two, I'd do it.

ETA: And trading away the draft is stupid because they do have many other holes, not because of Gore.
For real, go back and read my replies, I have said EXACTLY that at least three times.
You have, I agree. Confused you with the "dickey moe" guy who has been going on about Gore's 600+ yards last year.
No, i did mention that Gore had 600 yards rushing. No way in a billion years am I saying that the 49ers shouldn't trade based on Gore, just that they will be ok with Gore and have too many other holes to fill to trade away three possible starters for one guy, even if that guy is the second coming of Christ himself.....
A truer thing may have never been said about my beloved 49ers, just hate that it came from someone who is a Cowboys fan.The Niners need picks more than any other team in football. They really have noone under the age of 30 who has proven themselves in the NFL. I don't care how good Bush is it would be like Barry Sanders in Detroit all over again and that is only if Bush can hold a candle to Sanders which is yet to be proven.

 
Reminds me of this:

2.  Green Bay - Tony Mandarich - T - Michigan State

3.  Detroit - Barry Sanders - RB - Oklahoma State
And this goes to show you that one HOF RB is not what makes a Super Bowl winning team. Barry Sanders is a stud pure and simple, but he never sniffed a Super Bowl.What was the main difference between Detroit and GB? Brett Favre versus Scott Mitchell/whoever else they had and Reggie White instead of ???
:rolleyes:
 
As soon as I heard about this I decided to get drunk because in my dynasty league I own Dominick Davis. My team is saved THANK GOD! :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned: :banned:
According to Bob McNair, the Texans plan on taking a RB either in the late 1st (by trading up) or in the early 2nd...Dom Davis is hardly out of the woods yet.
 
Does anyone know why the Texans went ahead and announced this today instead of just waiting until tomorrow? They really did the Saints a favor giving them about 15 hours to work out a deal.

 
As soon as I heard about this I decided to get drunk because in my dynasty league I own Dominick Davis.  My team is saved THANK GOD! :banned:   :banned:   :banned:   :banned:   :banned:   :banned:   :banned:   :banned:   :banned:   :banned:   :banned:   :banned:   :banned:
According to Bob McNair, the Texans plan on taking a RB either in the late 1st (by trading up) or in the early 2nd...Dom Davis is hardly out of the woods yet.
Maybe seeing LenDale White slide played into their thinking
 
Does anyone know why the Texans went ahead and announced this today instead of just waiting until tomorrow? They really did the Saints a favor giving them about 15 hours to work out a deal.
It would've been leaked...once the contract was signed, the agents and personnel people would've spread that like wildfire. Besides, why would the Texans wait unless they were playing possum? They didn't sign this deal to entice Bush into getting serious, they signed this deal because they want Mario Williams as the top pick. It's a done deal...they're off the clock, to them it's irrelevant whether the Saints have 30 minutes or 15 hours to decide what to do...they're not division rivals or even conference rivals for that matter.
 
Bush to the Saints looking like done deal
The Saints have to say that they are going to take Bush if they wanted to maximise the trade potential of the pick. Not saying that they are not going to take Bush, just that loudly proclaiming that they are going to take him should be taken with a pinch of salt.
 
Bush to the Saints looking like done deal
The Saints have to say that they are going to take Bush if they wanted to maximise the trade potential of the pick. Not saying that they are not going to take Bush, just that loudly proclaiming that they are going to take him should be taken with a pinch of salt.
It's just going to be very hard, if not impossible, for the Saints to get "value" for the 2nd pick on such short notice IMHO. They all but have to take Bush unless the Jets are willing to give up 3 picks on Day One, which I don't see happening.
 
It would've been leaked...once the contract was signed, the agents and personnel people would've spread that like wildfire. Besides, why would the Texans wait unless they were playing possum? They didn't sign this deal to entice Bush into getting serious, they signed this deal because they want Mario Williams as the top pick. It's a done deal...they're off the clock, to them it's irrelevant whether the Saints have 30 minutes or 15 hours to decide what to do...they're not division rivals or even conference rivals for that matter.
It's just going to be very hard, if not impossible, for the Saints to get "value" for the 2nd pick on such short notice IMHO. They all but have to take Bush unless the Jets are willing to give up 3 picks on Day One, which I don't see happening.
But that's why it makes a difference if the news comes out today or tomorrow. If you believe 15 hours isn't enough time to get a deal done (i think it is) then 15 minutes would have been nowhere near enough time.
 
Bush to the Saints looking like done deal

Jason, we have our disagreements, but your work in this thread has been exceptional. You should stop by more often.
Hey Chaos,Thanks buddy. Although all this chatting has removed the chance that I would get a mock draft done tonight. Oh well. Maybe I'll throw one together before noon tomorrow. :eek:
I may not start my mock until noon tomorrow. :popcorn:
Something tells me it still won't help this year. I'm guessing a lot of torn up mock draft sheets by dinnertime.
 
Gore is a good young talent and he averaged almost 5 ypc (4.8).

The point is the 49ers have too many other holes to fill to trade away all their picks.
I'm not saying the 49ers should pull a Ditka, and I don't think anyone is. But if the 49ers can get Bush for the price of 3 picks, or 2 picks and a player or two, I'd do it.

ETA: And trading away the draft is stupid because they do have many other holes, not because of Gore.
For real, go back and read my replies, I have said EXACTLY that at least three times.
You have, I agree. Confused you with the "dickey moe" guy who has been going on about Gore's 600+ yards last year.
No, i did mention that Gore had 600 yards rushing. No way in a billion years am I saying that the 49ers shouldn't trade based on Gore, just that they will be ok with Gore and have too many other holes to fill to trade away three possible starters for one guy, even if that guy is the second coming of Christ himself.....
A truer thing may have never been said about my beloved 49ers, just hate that it came from someone who is a Cowboys fan.The Niners need picks more than any other team in football. They really have noone under the age of 30 who has proven themselves in the NFL. I don't care how good Bush is it would be like Barry Sanders in Detroit all over again and that is only if Bush can hold a candle to Sanders which is yet to be proven.
Being a Cowboys fan, I miss the rivalries, I think football is better when the Cowboys, Redskins, and 49ers are good at the same time. I love the rivalry. I love the good football that was played when all three were good. Cowboys and Redskins will be good this season, too bad the 49ers are still a year or two away...

 
I just don't think the Saints best move is to pick Reggie Bush. They've got Deuce and as Jason has pointed out, he's looking at quite a salary over the next few years. They hold the key to the money bag right now and OAK, NYJ, GB and whoever else is looking to get their hands on that money.

If a good deal comes the Saints way (and it likely will) they ought to make a trade and really help their team out by getting an extra first round pick this year, plus a 3rd or 4th rd pick and a 2007 1st or 2nd rd.

It makes sense.

The madness is coming...it's about time an NFL Draft had some madness. :popcorn:

 
To those who are criticizing this decision by the Texans, I think you are underestimating Williams. He was obviously a dominant defensive player in college. But some may not appreciate how athletic he is. He played DE, DT, and LB at State, and also lined up at RB and WR/TE occasionally. He played RB in high school (imagine high school defenders dealing with a 6'6" 250 lb RB!). Peppers is a very good comparison because of the athletic ability. He is also pretty young--he just turned 21 a few months ago. I think this was a great pick for Houston.

 
Mort just said he would expect the Titans to take Bush if NO passes on him.
And the chances of that happening are 0.00000000001%. He's drafted at 1.02, by the Saints or whomever the pick gets traded to.
 
The Jets fans would be ecstatic with Bush - though landing Brick and getting a 2nd tier RB at 29 really makes the most sense.
Yep, that would be better but the Jets can also get Bush and an OL later as well. This draft is pretty stocked with RB. Bush belongs on the biggest stage in the country....NY.

 
Could San Francisco move up with 1.06 and 1.22?
I'm not exactly sure of the point system, but I'd think the Jets 1.04 + 1.29 would add up to significantly higher than the two 49er picks.There is a big point differential between 1.04 and 1.06....not so much of a difference between 1.22 and 1.29 if I remember correctly.

 
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