"I'm Done Making My Kid's Childhood Magical" (1 Viewer)

[belljr]

I've decided travel ball is fine but not until she is 12 or asks to do it earlier

 

[Jayrod]

I've actually been working all day and don't have time to catch up on the last couple of pages of discussions.

However, I saw someone comment as to why a child centered home can be dangerous to the kids and parents.

My answer is this; for the children it develops an over-inflated sense of self and self-entitlement. In other words, spoiled kids. Spoiled children have a very hard time adjusting to the world of adulthood and actually can struggle to maintain healthy relationships at all levels. Expecting a spouse to live up to the expectations of your parents is a recipe for divorce.

As for the danger to the parents, empty nest syndrome is also a common cause for divorce. If the entire family is focused on the kids, once the kids are gone, then there is nothing left to the marriage and it dissolves. It happened to both my parents and my in-laws. They were unhappy and never worked on their marriages during the kid years and once everyone was out of the house, they hated each other.

Both of these things are very real dangers of making your lives about the kids. In my opinion, it is much healthier for a child to observe a stable family unit where the parents relationship is more important than the child's relationship. Many marriage guru's support this concept of marriage first, children second. This both helps the marriage stay intact after the children are gone and helps the child move on and live their own self-reliant lives apart from the parents.

Now helping a child explore their passions and dreams is a great thing for a parent to do. So long as the child knows that it isn't the parents #1 goal in life to "make it happen" for them. Ultimately the only person who can achieve success at anything is that person and that person alone. No amount of parental support will make Johnny hit HR's or Susie perform for a ballet company. You can help, but the decision is the child's. The sooner they learn that, the better, IMO.

 

[AcerFC]

I almost feel like sometimes we are talking about totally different things in this thread

 

[El Floppo]

I've actually been working all day and don't have time to catch up on the last couple of pages of discussions.

However, I saw someone comment as to why a child centered home can be dangerous to the kids and parents.

My answer is this; for the children it develops an over-inflated sense of self and self-entitlement. In other words, spoiled kids. Spoiled children have a very hard time adjusting to the world of adulthood and actually can struggle to maintain healthy relationships at all levels. Expecting a spouse to live up to the expectations of your parents is a recipe for divorce.

As for the danger to the parents, empty nest syndrome is also a common cause for divorce. If the entire family is focused on the kids, once the kids are gone, then there is nothing left to the marriage and it dissolves. It happened to both my parents and my in-laws. They were unhappy and never worked on their marriages during the kid years and once everyone was out of the house, they hated each other.

Both of these things are very real dangers of making your lives about the kids. In my opinion, it is much healthier for a child to observe a stable family unit where the parents relationship is more important than the child's relationship. Many marriage guru's support this concept of marriage first, children second. This both helps the marriage stay intact after the children are gone and helps the child move on and live their own self-reliant lives apart from the parents.

Now helping a child explore their passions and dreams is a great thing for a parent to do. So long as the child knows that it isn't the parents #1 goal in life to "make it happen" for them. Ultimately the only person who can achieve success at anything is that person and that person alone. No amount of parental support will make Johnny hit HR's or Susie perform for a ballet company. You can help, but the decision is the child's. The sooner they learn that, the better, IMO.

spoiling a kid doesn't have to be the same thing as making them a priority in your life.

 

[roadkill1292]

I was amused by the GM/Floppo exchange. Well done, both of you.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

I've actually been working all day and don't have time to catch up on the last couple of pages of discussions.

However, I saw someone comment as to why a child centered home can be dangerous to the kids and parents.

My answer is this; for the children it develops an over-inflated sense of self and self-entitlement. In other words, spoiled kids. Spoiled children have a very hard time adjusting to the world of adulthood and actually can struggle to maintain healthy relationships at all levels. Expecting a spouse to live up to the expectations of your parents is a recipe for divorce.

As for the danger to the parents, empty nest syndrome is also a common cause for divorce. If the entire family is focused on the kids, once the kids are gone, then there is nothing left to the marriage and it dissolves. It happened to both my parents and my in-laws. They were unhappy and never worked on their marriages during the kid years and once everyone was out of the house, they hated each other.

Both of these things are very real dangers of making your lives about the kids. In my opinion, it is much healthier for a child to observe a stable family unit where the parents relationship is more important than the child's relationship. Many marriage guru's support this concept of marriage first, children second. This both helps the marriage stay intact after the children are gone and helps the child move on and live their own self-reliant lives apart from the parents.

Now helping a child explore their passions and dreams is a great thing for a parent to do. So long as the child knows that it isn't the parents #1 goal in life to "make it happen" for them. Ultimately the only person who can achieve success at anything is that person and that person alone. No amount of parental support will make Johnny hit HR's or Susie perform for a ballet company. You can help, but the decision is the child's. The sooner they learn that, the better, IMO.

Huh. Turns out I'm not just ruining my kids, but my marriage is also in trouble.

 

[AcerFC]

Lolz

Dont listen to him, he doesnt let his dog in the house

 

[cstu]

As for the danger to the parents, empty nest syndrome is also a common cause for divorce. If the entire family is focused on the kids, once the kids are gone, then there is nothing left to the marriage and it dissolves. It happened to both my parents and my in-laws. They were unhappy and never worked on their marriages during the kid years and once everyone was out of the house, they hated each other.

Meh, an excuse not to be married to a 40 year old woman IMO.

 

[renesauz]

Tennessee, I think the biggest issue people are having with your comments is the "owe it to them" part.

The fact is that all we really owe a child is to keep them safe, healthy and teach them. Giving them opportunities can be a luxury, but I and many others don't see it as the responsibility you seem to be making it.

If my kid likes dance, great. She'll get to do some dance lessons, but it will have to be subject to other priorities. For us, those include family time/functions, school, church and financial. If all of those things are taken care of, then and only then will dance classes be taken. It's the same thing with my sons sports. He loves football and has begged to play, but we said no two years in a row for different reasons. He has played basketball and baseball already, but those worked for us.

I think it is good for kids to feel they are important to you, but not the MOST important thing to you. A child is to be a part of the family, not the center of it. Too many families are making their child the focus of the family and that misalignment of priorities is dangerous for both the child and the parents.

1000% this.

 

[renesauz]

Maybe "not 5 kids" is an easier solution than "not dance."

Wow...just wow. Absolutely no chance your kids end up spoiled and self centered

 

[Jayrod]

As for the danger to the parents, empty nest syndrome is also a common cause for divorce. If the entire family is focused on the kids, once the kids are gone, then there is nothing left to the marriage and it dissolves. It happened to both my parents and my in-laws. They were unhappy and never worked on their marriages during the kid years and once everyone was out of the house, they hated each other.

Meh, an excuse not to be married to a 40 year old woman IMO.

My FIL is now with another woman his age who is, by all objective measurements, less attractive than my MIL. He left her because they had zero relationship. For 25 years they had the three kids and after that was gone, there was nothing left.

I've actually been working all day and don't have time to catch up on the last couple of pages of discussions.

However, I saw someone comment as to why a child centered home can be dangerous to the kids and parents.

My answer is this; for the children it develops an over-inflated sense of self and self-entitlement. In other words, spoiled kids. Spoiled children have a very hard time adjusting to the world of adulthood and actually can struggle to maintain healthy relationships at all levels. Expecting a spouse to live up to the expectations of your parents is a recipe for divorce.

As for the danger to the parents, empty nest syndrome is also a common cause for divorce. If the entire family is focused on the kids, once the kids are gone, then there is nothing left to the marriage and it dissolves. It happened to both my parents and my in-laws. They were unhappy and never worked on their marriages during the kid years and once everyone was out of the house, they hated each other.

Both of these things are very real dangers of making your lives about the kids. In my opinion, it is much healthier for a child to observe a stable family unit where the parents relationship is more important than the child's relationship. Many marriage guru's support this concept of marriage first, children second. This both helps the marriage stay intact after the children are gone and helps the child move on and live their own self-reliant lives apart from the parents.

Now helping a child explore their passions and dreams is a great thing for a parent to do. So long as the child knows that it isn't the parents #1 goal in life to "make it happen" for them. Ultimately the only person who can achieve success at anything is that person and that person alone. No amount of parental support will make Johnny hit HR's or Susie perform for a ballet company. You can help, but the decision is the child's. The sooner they learn that, the better, IMO.

Huh. Turns out I'm not just ruining my kids, but my marriage is also in trouble.

Maybe, maybe not. Only you really know. The dangers are real, though. Ignore them at your own peril.

 

[FUBAR]

As for the danger to the parents, empty nest syndrome is also a common cause for divorce. If the entire family is focused on the kids, once the kids are gone, then there is nothing left to the marriage and it dissolves. It happened to both my parents and my in-laws. They were unhappy and never worked on their marriages during the kid years and once everyone was out of the house, they hated each other.

Meh, an excuse not to be married to a 40 year old woman IMO.

TBH, this is a concern for me. My wife has focused on kids for her entire life. We balance fairly well now but there will be a hole when they leave. We'll need to fill that hole, but it will take work.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Seems possible that those marriages would have ended even earlier if they weren't child-focused. How do we know the child focus was the cause of the split?

 

[shadyridr]

My wife and i were married 5 yrs and together 8 more before kids. We talk all the time about taking vacation without our son. I think we will be fine on that front.

 

[El Floppo]

My wife and i were married 5 yrs and together 8 more before kids. We talk all the time about taking vacation without our son. I think we will be fine on that front.

YOU'RE ####### DOOMED

eta: oh, and you've ruined society too.

 

[GoBirds]

Anyone with young boys have recommendations for activities in the 3-4 age group. Want to get him started in something, signed up for Soccer and he saw a Karate studio and went crazy. Not the most coordinated lil fella but want to start getting him involved.

 

[El Floppo]

Anyone with young boys have recommendations for activities in the 3-4 age group. Want to get him started in something, signed up for Soccer and he saw a Karate studio and went crazy. Not the most coordinated lil fella but want to start getting him involved.

sounds like this is probably the wrong place to ask.

but how about a dance class?

 

[Thorn]

I think you guys are wearing out the "Jump to Conclusions Mat" in here.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

Anyone with young boys have recommendations for activities in the 3-4 age group. Want to get him started in something, signed up for Soccer and he saw a Karate studio and went crazy. Not the most coordinated lil fella but want to start getting him involved.

We're going to try something called "Blastball". I'm not completely clear on exactly what it is other than a variation of t-ball for little ones. Apparently it the league provides all necessary equipment and gloves aren't used. I have no idea whether it will go well or not, but it's something that sounds like it's geared to a little one like my son who has the attention span of an ADD tweaker.

 

[saintfool]

Anyone with young boys have recommendations for activities in the 3-4 age group. Want to get him started in something, signed up for Soccer and he saw a Karate studio and went crazy. Not the most coordinated lil fella but want to start getting him involved.

my son - turning 5 next month - has been in soccer for the last 2 years. they really aren't playing soccer at that age. instead it is mostly "skill and drill" with the emphasis on developing motor skills and listening to coach. it's fun. we took a break from classes because my guy didn't enjoy the team play (3-on-3 mostly) at first. it can be a little physical, especially with kids barrelling down a play space/field, but it turned him off. we took a break and went back to class about 2 weeks ago. we watched the other kids at the next level, talked to his coach and he decided he wanted to go back to class.

i like

 

[Ned]

Anyone with young boys have recommendations for activities in the 3-4 age group. Want to get him started in something, signed up for Soccer and he saw a Karate studio and went crazy. Not the most coordinated lil fella but want to start getting him involved.

Sign him up!

We started our boys in kung fu when they were 4 & 6 (now 6 & 8) and they love it. Martial arts is a great thing for kids, IMO.

 

[mr roboto]

Seems possible that those marriages would have ended even earlier if they weren't child-focused. How do we know the child focus was the cause of the split?

Marriages don't usually just 'end' or are destined to do so. Some need to end, some should never have happened. But many can be better if they are worked on. Many times the marriage is neglected and husband and wife become more like co-parents or co-managers of a household. I don't know why it's so hard to believe that this neglect could contribute to an unhappy marriage. I also don't know why it's hard to believe that many of the empty-nest divorces could have been prevented.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Seems possible that those marriages would have ended even earlier if they weren't child-focused. How do we know the child focus was the cause of the split?

Marriages don't usually just 'end' or are destined to do so. Some need to end, some should never have happened. But many can be better if they are worked on. Many times the marriage is neglected and husband and wife become more like co-parents or co-managers of a household. I don't know why it's so hard to believe that this neglect could contribute to an unhappy marriage. I also don't know why it's hard to believe that many of the empty-nest divorces could have been prevented.

None of what you say is hard to believe. But I also think there are a lot of married people who would rather divorce but stay together for the kids. Then they split up when the kids leave home. I don't know what proportion of empty nest divorcees fall into your category and what percent fall in mine.

 

[belljr]

I just booked a 7pm showing for the SPONGEBOB movie on Friday. IT WILL BE MAGICAL!!!!

 

[mr roboto]

Seems possible that those marriages would have ended even earlier if they weren't child-focused. How do we know the child focus was the cause of the split?

Marriages don't usually just 'end' or are destined to do so. Some need to end, some should never have happened. But many can be better if they are worked on. Many times the marriage is neglected and husband and wife become more like co-parents or co-managers of a household. I don't know why it's so hard to believe that this neglect could contribute to an unhappy marriage. I also don't know why it's hard to believe that many of the empty-nest divorces could have been prevented.

None of what you say is hard to believe. But I also think there are a lot of married people who would rather divorce but stay together for the kids. Then they split up when the kids leave home. I don't know what proportion of empty nest divorcees fall into your category and what percent fall in mine.

I think many of those marriages are in both categories depending on what viewpoint you take.

 

[cstu]

Seems possible that those marriages would have ended even earlier if they weren't child-focused. How do we know the child focus was the cause of the split?

Marriages don't usually just 'end' or are destined to do so. Some need to end, some should never have happened. But many can be better if they are worked on. Many times the marriage is neglected and husband and wife become more like co-parents or co-managers of a household. I don't know why it's so hard to believe that this neglect could contribute to an unhappy marriage. I also don't know why it's hard to believe that many of the empty-nest divorces could have been prevented.

None of what you say is hard to believe. But I also think there are a lot of married people who would rather divorce but stay together for the kids. Then they split up when the kids leave home. I don't know what proportion of empty nest divorcees fall into your category and what percent fall in mine.

25% of divorces now involve people who are 50+. From reading about it most seem to be people who were hanging on until their kids were out of the house.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324436104578579372436143196

There are signs of this empty-nest syndrome in statistics that track divorce rates, according to a March 2012 white paper, "The Gray Divorce Revolution," by researchers at Bowling Green State University in Bowling Green, Ohio.

In 1990, fewer than 1 in 10 individuals who divorced were 50 or older.

Almost 20 years later, that number jumped to more than 1 in 4. In 2009, more than 600,000 people ages 50 and over got divorced. (The researchers analyzed data from the 1990 U.S. Vital Statistics Report and the 2009 American Community Survey administered by the U.S. Census Bureau.)

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Not as fun as seeing a stranger play the obo, but fun enough.

 

[cstu]

I just booked a 7pm showing for the SPONGEBOB movie on Friday. IT WILL BE MAGICAL!!!!

You're ruining his life. Well done.

 

[belljr]

I just booked a 7pm showing for the SPONGEBOB movie on Friday. IT WILL BE MAGICAL!!!!

You're ruining his life. Well done.

Good thing it's my daughter. WHEW

 

[El Floppo]

I just booked a 7pm showing for the SPONGEBOB movie on Friday. IT WILL BE MAGICAL!!!!

You're ruining his life. Well done.

Good thing it's my daughter. WHEW

even worse.

 

[bigbottom]

There's no secret recipe for the best way to parent a child. Frankly, we're all just muddling along as best we can and hoping not to screw up our kids too badly. On the topic of kid-centered vs. family-centered vs. whatever, I would simply offer these general principles:

1) Don't live your life through your kids.

2) Don't make your goals your kid's goals.

3) Don't make your kid's goals your goals.

4) When fulfilling your role as a parent, don't ignore your role as a spouse.

5) When fulfilling your role as a parent, don't ignore yourself (or your own goals, hobbies, desires, etc.)

6) Commit to having an identity that goes beyond being your kids' parent.

Sure this is obvious and unspecific advice, but I think it's still a good idea to do a mental checklist every once in a while.

 

[El Floppo]

great stuff, bb

I always thought my parents had a great relationship and acted as a paradigm for how relationships should be (for me)... and they hit every one of your list. #5 was really important, IMO, as I watched each of them have very full lives both together and apart.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I wasn't including you, since I don't recall you assuming that I'm raising kids who won't be able to function in society because I think I "owe" it to them to figure out a way to allow them to engage in healthy positive activities that they also enjoy. That said, beyond that statement I made, I don't see how in the world you could possibly know how much I "cater to [my kids'] desires".

I dont even think you know. One minute you say how ridiculous a time commitment dance is, then another you say it is two hours a week. One minute you are talking about your daughter's dance like she is in swan lake, the next you say she is bouncing around doing shuffle, hop, step like a stumbling drunk. You say your daughter saw a christmas carol so you think the next logical step is to sign her up for acting lessons. You talk about "homing" in on her athletic skills later in life and how she is wired a certain way.

Make up your own mind before you tell people to own anything.

 

[Jayrod]

Seems possible that those marriages would have ended even earlier if they weren't child-focused. How do we know the child focus was the cause of the split?

We don't.

Number one issue per my FIL was the way they handled the youngest son. Total disagreement on it. He fell into drugs and they both blamed each other.

 

[renesauz]

Seems possible that those marriages would have ended even earlier if they weren't child-focused. How do we know the child focus was the cause of the split?

It isn't necessarily. The problem is that when kids become the primary force for togetherness and that force is removed, there isn't usually something ready to replace it. If there never were kids in the first place, the couple would have likely had many of the same things that brought them together in the first place.

 

[renesauz]

There's no secret recipe for the best way to parent a child. Frankly, we're all just muddling along as best we can and hoping not to screw up our kids too badly. On the topic of kid-centered vs. family-centered vs. whatever, I would simply offer these general principles:

1) Don't live your life through your kids.

2) Don't make your goals your kid's goals.

3) Don't make your kid's goals your goals.

4) When fulfilling your role as a parent, don't ignore your role as a spouse.

5) When fulfilling your role as a parent, don't ignore yourself (or your own goals, hobbies, desires, etc.)

6) Commit to having an identity that goes beyond being your kids' parent.

Sure this is obvious and unspecific advice, but I think it's still a good idea to do a mental checklist every once in a while.

 

[cstu]

There's no secret recipe for the best way to parent a child. Frankly, we're all just muddling along as best we can and hoping not to screw up our kids too badly. On the topic of kid-centered vs. family-centered vs. whatever, I would simply offer these general principles:

1) Don't live your life through your kids.

2) Don't make your goals your kid's goals.

3) Don't make your kid's goals your goals.

4) When fulfilling your role as a parent, don't ignore your role as a spouse.

5) When fulfilling your role as a parent, don't ignore yourself (or your own goals, hobbies, desires, etc.)

6) Commit to having an identity that goes beyond being your kids' parent.

Sure this is obvious and unspecific advice, but I think it's still a good idea to do a mental checklist every once in a while.

Can I have a secret one like Clark Kent?

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

I wasn't including you, since I don't recall you assuming that I'm raising kids who won't be able to function in society because I think I "owe" it to them to figure out a way to allow them to engage in healthy positive activities that they also enjoy. That said, beyond that statement I made, I don't see how in the world you could possibly know how much I "cater to [my kids'] desires".

I dont even think you know. One minute you say how ridiculous a time commitment dance is, then another you say it is two hours a week. One minute you are talking about your daughter's dance like she is in swan lake, the next you say she is bouncing around doing shuffle, hop, step like a stumbling drunk. You say your daughter saw a christmas carol so you think the next logical step is to sign her up for acting lessons. You talk about "homing" in on her athletic skills later in life and how she is wired a certain way.

Make up your own mind before you tell people to own anything.

Wow. Someone's panties sure got in a bunch pretty quickly.

You pretty clearly have some reading comprehension issues with some anger issues sprinkled on top.

When did I say dance was 2 hours per week? When did I say that time commitment was "ridiculous"? Or did I say regular dance was 1 hour a week, plus informal performances and the recital and tgat competition dance was 2 hours a week, 2 weekends a month of traveling, informal performances, and recital?

Did I say my daughter danced like she was in "swan lake"? Or did I say she loved dance, does it all the time, but wasn't particularly good at it?

Did I say my daughter saw "A Christmas Carol" so my next logical step was to take her to acting classes? Or did I say she wanted to learn about acting after seeing it?

Did I say anything about "homing in on her athletic skills later in life"? Or did I say I wanted to expose her to a bunch of stuff when she's young then "home" in on what she likes/has an aptitude for as she gets older?

I did comment about how my daughter's wired. Maybe that seems alien to you, but I spend enough time around her to have a pretty good handle on that. Not sure why that pisses you off so much. I have a feeling you're mad a lot though.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Maybe a question for the Disney thread nerds but the wife is telling me it's customary to bring a costume for the kids to wear at Disney World to enhance the magicalness

 

[CletiusMaximus]

A short piece in this weeks New Yorker on the Free-Range Kids movement.

“If you actually wanted your child to be kidnapped, how long would you have to keep him outside for him to be abducted by a stranger?” A week? She shook her head. “Seven hundred and fifty thousand years.”

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Yeah, most of the little girls at the princess breakfast or whatever it's called were wearing their own princess dresses.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

What about boys dressed as pirates or superheroes

 

[comfortably numb]

I'm 36 and when we 1st go to Disney I plan to wear a costume

 

[bigbottom]

I'm 36 and when we 1st go to Disney I plan to wear a costume

Pedobear?

 

[belljr]

Maybe a question for the Disney thread nerds but the wife is telling me it's customary to bring a costume for the kids to wear at Disney World to enhance the magicalness

other than mickey ears we bought my daughter a light up mickey hand for the parade. She managed to still enjoy herself

 

[17seconds]

Just opening this thread.

Article is fantastic, love it and agree with it 100%.

Mostly I love it because I'm divorcing a self-absorbed FB/Pinterest/Instagram addict who cares more about projecting the image of the artsy/craftsy supermom to her friends and family than responding to what her children actually want and need.

I'm enjoying the liberation of choosing my own parenting as a single Dad and getting them away from this bull####.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm 36 and when we 1st go to Disney I plan to wear a costume

Pedobear?

 

[McGarnicle]

I don't know how you people can have those things in your house.

 

[Tennessee_ATO]

A short piece in this weeks New Yorker on the Free-Range Kids movement.

If you actually wanted your child to be kidnapped, how long would you have to keep him outside for him to be abducted by a stranger? A week? She shook her head. Seven hundred and fifty thousand years.

Dunno if that math is right or not, but it's clearly not something that's a big deal -- until it is. The problem with her flippant statement is that it's just a half-### attempt at a risk-utility analysis. It glosses over the fact that the event at issue is the worst possible outcome for anyone and the conduct required to significantly reduce it (even from its already low probability) is not particularly burdensome or costly.

My backyard has a lot of big trees in it -- highest objects in the vicinity. I know that my kids have virtually no chance of being struck by lightning if an electrical storm rolls in. That doesn't mean I'm not calling them inside as a storm approaches. Ditto swimming pools. And golf courses. The probability of the event is virtually nil if I do nothing, but the event is catastrophic and the conduct required to reduce it significantly is minimal in terms of cost and effort.

Don't get me wrong, I roll my eyes at some if the things my wife and her parents worry about. My kids already know daddy will let them do more stuff than mommy will. I'm just saying that pretending that abductiion of your kids is nothing to be worried about is a pretty absurd thing to do. It may not be the thing that motivates every decision, but it's something that should be taken into account when weighing whether to let your kids go somewhere out of the sphere of an adult's supervision.

 

[(HULK)]

So, I just found out a parent at my kids Montessori is good friends and neighbors with the free range family.

Personally, I'm a fan of them. When I was ten, I was biking all over the place, with no helmet, and kid nappings were much more common than they are today.