Official "If You Think The Patriots Deserve An Asterisk" Thr (1 Viewer)

[PMENFAN]

Anyone watching the Colts-Ravens game? Patriot fans, this is an example of the classy way to play football when you are winning by an obscene amount in the second half. You put in your backups and call vanilla plays.

Tony Dungy's classiness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Belichick's classiness

You are right. I don't know what I was thinking. I renounce my Patriots fandom and am rushing out to buy a Peyton Manning jersey.

Oh please, you and I both know your coach is the biggest jack### to put on a torn up hoodie and stalk the sidelines. This is a guy who would push your grandmother to the ground if he needed to get somewhere in a hurry.

What exactly are the Colts doing different? Indy looks to be running their offense only with Sorgi. Sorgi threw the first play he came in. I thought you arent supposed to throw when you are up 40, isnt that one of the "rules"? Sorgi is 2/3 for 16 yards. It doesnt seem to me that the Colts have had the ball much this second half. They have had a total of 9 plays and passed 3. How is that different?

You're not supposed to have your first team QB and WR hooking up on deep balls when you're up by 40. You put your backup QB in there and run a ball control running/passing game it's totally different from having Brady in there going long to Moss. If you can't see that difference, it's because you're not looking.

Show me the time when Brady hit a deep pass for a TD to any of his receivers in the 4th qtr when up big. I think most of the complaints earlier in the year were about short passes on 4th down.

In week 3 against the Bills, up 31-7, Brady throws a 40+ yard TD to Moss. Not sure of any others, I just recall that one rather well (I was playing the Moss owner week 3)Ni

1-10-NE 2 28) 44-H.Evans right guard to NE 11 for 9 yards (33-J.Greer). END QUARTER 3

BUF 7 NE 38 Plays: 10 Possession: 5:06

4th Quarter expand [+] collapse [-]

New England Patriots continues ...

2-1-NE 11 (15:00) (Shotgun) 39-L.Maroney left tackle to NE 13 for 2 yards (53-M.Haggan).

1-10-NE 13 (14:20) PENALTY on BUF-90-C.Kelsay, Neutral Zone Infraction, 5 yards, enforced at NE 13 - No Play.

1-5-NE 18 (14:00) NE 68-O'Callaghan eligible. 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to 88-K.Brady.

2-5-NE 18 (13:55) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 81-R.Moss.

3-5-NE 18 (13:51) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 83-W.Welker to NE 28 for 10 yards (90-C.Kelsay).

1-10-NE 28 (13:16) 39-L.Maroney left end to NE 37 for 9 yards (52-J.DiGiorgio, 97-J.McCargo).

2-1-NE 37 (12:36) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 83-W.Welker to NE 36 for -1 yards (25-K.Thomas, 20-D.Whitner).

3-2-NE 36 (11:53) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short middle to 33-K.Faulk to NE 46 for 10 yards (43-B.Scott).

1-10-NE 46 (11:13) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 33-K.Faulk to BUF 45 for 9 yards (55-A.Crowell, 20-D.Whitner) [72-R.Neill].

2-1-BUF 45 (10:28) 12-T.Brady pass deep right to 81-R.Moss for 45 yards, TOUCHDOWN. NE 81-Moss 1st receiver in NFL history to have 100+ rec yards in each of his 1st 3 games with a new team. NE 81-Moss 49th career 100-yard receiving game NE 12-Brady 16th career 300-yard game.

0-0-BUF 2 3-S.Gostkowski extra point is GOOD, Center-66-L.Paxton, Holder-6-C.Hanson.

There's the drive. It started on their 2, and on the 11th play of the drive, that started in the 3rd, with a 24 opoint lead, they scored. Brady left the game after this pass, giving way to Cassell.

How dare them work on getting better this late in a game, all the way into the third week of the season. I mean, Brady and Moss had been playing totether for 3 games at that point. This is how you get better. You run plays. Do you have an option for building chemistry?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Could you Pats haters possibly stop crying so much and maybe not watch Pats games if you find them so upsetting to your delicate sensibilities?

toxic waste

 

[PMENFAN]

Jere we see ,ammomg cpmmect pm a 45 yarder to Wayne with 10 inutes left and a 3 score lead.

Translation please??

Here we see Manning connect on a 45 yarder to Wayne with 10 minutes left and a 3 score lead. Instead of haarping on somebody obviously mistyping, how about you address the core issue? manning is doing exactly what Brady does, only Brady and BB are somehow classless. You leave it alone, because you have no defense. There's a logic disconnect in your thought pattern. Why would Manning do such a thing? Because he's a professional football player, working to get better for the playoffs.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Could you Pats haters possibly stop crying so much and maybe not watch Pats games if you find them so upsetting to your delicate sensibilities?

Kinda hard when they are the only game on in their time slot most weeks. I'd love to watch any other game...

 

[TxBuckeye]

Jere we see ,ammomg cpmmect pm a 45 yarder to Wayne with 10 inutes left and a 3 score lead.

Translation please??

Here we see Manning connect on a 45 yarder to Wayne with 10 minutes left and a 3 score lead. Instead of haarping on somebody obviously mistyping, how about you address the core issue? manning is doing exactly what Brady does, only Brady and BB are somehow classless. You leave it alone, because you have no defense. There's a logic disconnect in your thought pattern. Why would Manning do such a thing? Because he's a professional football player, working to get better for the playoffs.

Uhm, you'll have to point to the post where I complained about Brady or supported Manning. Not exactly sure what it is I'm supposed to be defending. TIA...

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Could you Pats haters possibly stop crying so much and maybe not watch Pats games if you find them so upsetting to your delicate sensibilities?

Kinda hard when they are the only game on in their time slot most weeks. I'd love to watch any other game...

Not me. The classless cheaters games have been interesting football and damn fun to watch for the most part. next weeks slaughter probably won't be too compelling from a competition standpoint, but with some built in anomosity there is a chance for some compelling story out of that game as well. Also we will get a good idea where they stand in pursuit of individuals records for the season.

 

[mad sweeney]

Ok. I hear you on all this and there are lots of valid points on this theme. Getting busted for cheating is a big deal. It was a big deal when Shawne Merriman and Jason Taylor were battling for Defensive Player of The Year. It's a big deal now. But it's not the end of the world. That's annoying. And it's just as annoying to sweep it under the rug and act like nothing happened.

But we've hit the limit.

If you don't like what NE is doing whether it's running up the score or leg whipping or thinking their records deserve an asterisk or whatever - keep it to this thread.

I don't want a ton of threads on the board doing the same thing so we're going to have this one.

J

filming the other team's signal caller, was NOT cheating, and EVERYONE was doing it.what happened is , Bellichick continued to film the signal caller, even AFTER the NFL told the entire league, to stop doing it..Goodell didn't just say 'Hey, Patriots, stop filming', Goodell told EVERYONE to stop..

the only thing BB did wrong,was to continue to film, in week 1, and thats where he got caught. Its not like he was doing it for 12 weeks, it happened in week 1!!! ONE GAME!

Jimmy Johnson admitted he used to do the same things , when he coached Dallas to 3 SB victories..he was on WFAN-NY back in October, speaking about that. he wen't on to say it was comical , how much spying went on between teams, it was like CIA/KGB-level espionage, that teams were always catching the other teams 'spies' in the hallways, or in the coach's booths upstairs..LOL

But, he did say ,he used to film the signal caller from across the field, and if the coach's booths were on the same side of the field as the opposing team, he'd have his 'spy' stand on the DAllas sideline, and film the signal caller from across the field..

and not for nothing, whay can't opposing teams change their signals IN THE HUDDLE?!

isn't that what an audible is used for? LOL

this isn't Barry Bonds, Palmiero, McGuire..filming opposing teams' signal callers WAS legal until game one of this season..in that game, the Pats were caught filming the Jets. Big Deal.its one game!! ONE GAME!

and, the Colts were caught piping 3rd party sound into their stadium for the Pats/Colts game, wasn't that cheating, too? how many other games did they do that?! how many other teams do it? Everyone..

the Giants have LONG been known to open the garage doors at Giants Stadium, when the opposing team is kicking a FG, so that the swirling winds of the Meadowlands can wreak havoc on any FG attempt. They were caught doing this during a PLAYOFF game years ago, vs. Minnesota..So, thats cheating too, right?

even the Vikings used to open their air ducts in the Metrodome, to prevent opposing teams from making FGs..

Link?

 

[Road Warriors]

Ok. I hear you on all this and there are lots of valid points on this theme. Getting busted for cheating is a big deal. It was a big deal when Shawne Merriman and Jason Taylor were battling for Defensive Player of The Year. It's a big deal now. But it's not the end of the world. That's annoying. And it's just as annoying to sweep it under the rug and act like nothing happened.

But we've hit the limit.

If you don't like what NE is doing whether it's running up the score or leg whipping or thinking their records deserve an asterisk or whatever - keep it to this thread.

I don't want a ton of threads on the board doing the same thing so we're going to have this one.

J

filming the other team's signal caller, was NOT cheating, and EVERYONE was doing it.what happened is , Bellichick continued to film the signal caller, even AFTER the NFL told the entire league, to stop doing it..Goodell didn't just say 'Hey, Patriots, stop filming', Goodell told EVERYONE to stop..

the only thing BB did wrong,was to continue to film, in week 1, and thats where he got caught. Its not like he was doing it for 12 weeks, it happened in week 1!!! ONE GAME!

Jimmy Johnson admitted he used to do the same things , when he coached Dallas to 3 SB victories..he was on WFAN-NY back in October, speaking about that. he wen't on to say it was comical , how much spying went on between teams, it was like CIA/KGB-level espionage, that teams were always catching the other teams 'spies' in the hallways, or in the coach's booths upstairs..LOL

But, he did say ,he used to film the signal caller from across the field, and if the coach's booths were on the same side of the field as the opposing team, he'd have his 'spy' stand on the DAllas sideline, and film the signal caller from across the field..

and not for nothing, whay can't opposing teams change their signals IN THE HUDDLE?!

isn't that what an audible is used for? LOL

this isn't Barry Bonds, Palmiero, McGuire..filming opposing teams' signal callers WAS legal until game one of this season..in that game, the Pats were caught filming the Jets. Big Deal.its one game!! ONE GAME!

and, the Colts were caught piping 3rd party sound into their stadium for the Pats/Colts game, wasn't that cheating, too? how many other games did they do that?! how many other teams do it? Everyone..

the Giants have LONG been known to open the garage doors at Giants Stadium, when the opposing team is kicking a FG, so that the swirling winds of the Meadowlands can wreak havoc on any FG attempt. They were caught doing this during a PLAYOFF game years ago, vs. Minnesota..So, thats cheating too, right?

even the Vikings used to open their air ducts in the Metrodome, to prevent opposing teams from making FGs..

You´re really not doing Patriots fans any good here. Your facts are wrong.Filming the other team´s coaches from the sidelines was not a new rule. It has been on the books for quite some time. There was a league office memo sent to all 32 teams ¨reminding¨ them of the rule.

The Colts were not proven to have piped in sound, but rather the audio in question was ruled to be a TV only glitch from CBS.

The rest of this falls under gamesmanship ( open doors, air ducts, snowplows )

The pats broke the rules. They got caught. They got punished. Now its over and time to move on. Stop downplaying what they did, and maybe the other side will stop harping on it so much. Probably not, but one can hope.

 

[Ghost Rider]

at anyone bringing up the Colts TD last night that made it 44-7 as a way of trying to imply that they are just as bad as the Patriots are at running up the score. That was at the beginning of the second half, and Manning was out of the game well before the end of the 3rd quarter.

 

[Workhorse]

Interesting link this AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...o_battle-1.html

 

[Reaper]

Interesting link this AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...o_battle-1.html

Didn't the league SPECIFICALLY tell teams THIS YEAR not to do it?

This is old news.... Email when Mangini GETS CAUGHT and I'll asterisk his ### too and call him a dopey moron for doing it In the Face of direct League Orders...

 

[Workhorse]

Interesting link this AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...o_battle-1.html

Didn't the league SPECIFICALLY tell teams THIS YEAR not to do it?

This is old news.... Email when Mangini GETS CAUGHT and I'll asterisk his ### too and call him a dopey moron for doing it In the Face of direct League Orders...

Boy, the backpeddalling by Jets fans is going to be funny to watch here.They got caught. The Jets cameraman was removed. Nobody turned them in to the league office.

At least we know that the goalposts have shifted to THIS YEAR. Thanks for that.

 

[Reaper]

Interesting link this AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...o_battle-1.html

Didn't the league SPECIFICALLY tell teams THIS YEAR not to do it?

This is old news.... Email when Mangini GETS CAUGHT and I'll asterisk his ### too and call him a dopey moron for doing it In the Face of direct League Orders...

Boy, the backpeddalling by Jets fans is going to be funny to watch here.They got caught. The Jets cameraman was removed. Nobody turned them in to the league office.

At least we know that the goalposts have shifted to THIS YEAR. Thanks for that.

Backpeddling?I said this from Day 1....... If Mangini gets caught doing something I'll asterisk his ### call him a moron for doing it and I'll refrain from making it an issue for 6 months and try to divert the issue to other teams.

Yeah.. THIS YEAR, the league said they were going to enforce this rule...

THEY ENFORCED IT.....

Case closed.

 

[jscout]

Now we can officially close this thread? The Jets cheated too (and probably other undisclosed teams too). Instead of handling it themselves like the classy Patriots did, the Jets turned rats and cried to the league. But you'll never get the haters to admit it. They'll keep arguing the same old tired point. It's like a fillabuster. It's the only thing they can hang on to.

 

[The Ref]

Interesting link this AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...o_battle-1.html

Didn't the league SPECIFICALLY tell teams THIS YEAR not to do it?

This is old news.... Email when Mangini GETS CAUGHT and I'll asterisk his ### too and call him a dopey moron for doing it In the Face of direct League Orders...

Boy, the backpeddalling by Jets fans is going to be funny to watch here.They got caught. The Jets cameraman was removed. Nobody turned them in to the league office.

At least we know that the goalposts have shifted to THIS YEAR. Thanks for that.

Backpeddling?I said this from Day 1....... If Mangini gets caught doing something I'll asterisk his ### call him a moron for doing it and I'll refrain from making it an issue for 6 months and try to divert the issue to other teams.

Yeah.. THIS YEAR, the league said they were going to enforce this rule...

THEY ENFORCED IT.....

Case closed.

JETS*

 

[scapegoat]

Interesting link this AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...o_battle-1.html

Didn't the league SPECIFICALLY tell teams THIS YEAR not to do it?

This is old news.... Email when Mangini GETS CAUGHT and I'll asterisk his ### too and call him a dopey moron for doing it In the Face of direct League Orders...

Boy, the backpeddalling by Jets fans is going to be funny to watch here.They got caught. The Jets cameraman was removed. Nobody turned them in to the league office.

At least we know that the goalposts have shifted to THIS YEAR. Thanks for that.

Backpeddling?I said this from Day 1....... If Mangini gets caught doing something I'll asterisk his ### call him a moron for doing it and I'll refrain from making it an issue for 6 months and try to divert the issue to other teams.

Yeah.. THIS YEAR, the league said they were going to enforce this rule...

THEY ENFORCED IT.....

Case closed.

So then, since the Pats got caught week 1 of this year and couldn't have benefited from the footage gained, there should be no asterisk.. since taping last year is apparently okay according to your logic, right? If pats are "Cheaters" for taping previously then so are the Jets.

If ONLY cheating THIS YEAR is cheating and all cheating from previous years is okay, then I guess the Pats don't need an asterisk since:

1) They would have stomped a mud hole in the Jets without footage

2) The tapes were caught before pats could benefit from them... therefore the Pats have not benefited from video this year.

SWEET! glad we got that asterisk thing cleared up.

 

[scapegoat]

Reaper, wait....

 

[jscout]

Interesting link this AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...o_battle-1.html

Didn't the league SPECIFICALLY tell teams THIS YEAR not to do it?

This is old news.... Email when Mangini GETS CAUGHT and I'll asterisk his ### too and call him a dopey moron for doing it In the Face of direct League Orders...

Boy, the backpeddalling by Jets fans is going to be funny to watch here.They got caught. The Jets cameraman was removed. Nobody turned them in to the league office.

At least we know that the goalposts have shifted to THIS YEAR. Thanks for that.

Backpeddling?I said this from Day 1....... If Mangini gets caught doing something I'll asterisk his ### call him a moron for doing it and I'll refrain from making it an issue for 6 months and try to divert the issue to other teams.

Yeah.. THIS YEAR, the league said they were going to enforce this rule...

THEY ENFORCED IT.....

Case closed.

So then, since the Pats got caught week 1 of this year and couldn't have benefited from the footage gained, there should be no asterisk.. since taping last year is apparently okay according to your logic, right? If pats are "Cheaters" for taping previously then so are the Jets.

If ONLY cheating THIS YEAR is cheating and all cheating from previous years is okay, then I guess the Pats don't need an asterisk since:

1) They would have stomped a mud hole in the Jets without footage

2) The tapes were caught before pats could benefit from them... therefore the Pats have not benefited from video this year.

SWEET! glad we got that asterisk thing cleared up.

Exactly!

 

[scapegoat]

Reaper..come back!

Where'd you go?!

 

[Reaper]

Interesting link this AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...o_battle-1.html

Didn't the league SPECIFICALLY tell teams THIS YEAR not to do it?

This is old news.... Email when Mangini GETS CAUGHT and I'll asterisk his ### too and call him a dopey moron for doing it In the Face of direct League Orders...

Boy, the backpeddalling by Jets fans is going to be funny to watch here.They got caught. The Jets cameraman was removed. Nobody turned them in to the league office.

At least we know that the goalposts have shifted to THIS YEAR. Thanks for that.

Backpeddling?I said this from Day 1....... If Mangini gets caught doing something I'll asterisk his ### call him a moron for doing it and I'll refrain from making it an issue for 6 months and try to divert the issue to other teams.

Yeah.. THIS YEAR, the league said they were going to enforce this rule...

THEY ENFORCED IT.....

Case closed.

So then, since the Pats got caught week 1 of this year and couldn't have benefited from the footage gained, there should be no asterisk.. since taping last year is apparently okay according to your logic, right? If pats are "Cheaters" for taping previously then so are the Jets.

If ONLY cheating THIS YEAR is cheating and all cheating from previous years is okay, then I guess the Pats don't need an asterisk since:

1) They would have stomped a mud hole in the Jets without footage

2) The tapes were caught before pats could benefit from them... therefore the Pats have not benefited from video this year.

SWEET! glad we got that asterisk thing cleared up.

You can look at it two ways....

The "CHEATER" angle is by the fans and a lot of em just having fun.....

The Asterisk and the "Cheater" thing isn't "Official"..... it's just something "Out there".. Feel free to call the Jets or anyone else Cheaters and Enjoy it.

The other angle is the League angle....

I don't think the league simply took away a 1st round pick and penalized the Pats "FOR CHEATING".....



I think the league penalized the Pats for Cheating, IN THE FACE OF DIRECT LEAGUE ORDERS TO STOP CHEATING NOW.............OR ELSE.....

So, feel free to call the Jets Cheaters, Rats whatever you want..... But, No, this year AFTER THE LEAGUE SPECIFICALLY WARNED TEAMS THAT A SEVERE PENALTY WOULD COME DOWN, I don't see any evidence of the Jets cheating IN THE FACE of what the league just told them...

So, yeah, i think the rule were changed a bit THIS YEAR.....

But, if anyone wants to call the Jets names, it sounds good to me... A loss of a 1st round pick would be crushing to the Jets though.... I doubt they have the balls to Cheat AFTER being specifically warned on what might have been a grey area in the league PRIOR.

 

[Workhorse]

So prior to the 2007 season the rule was a "grey area".



I'm cool with that.

No asterisk except for the one game where the Pats were caught and the league ruled that they gained no material advantage from it.

 

[scapegoat]

So cheating is REALLY cheating until you've been caught by the league and warned personally to not do it?



Just making sure where we're establishing our moral baselines at.

 

[scapegoat]

So prior to the 2007 season the rule was a "grey area".I'm cool with that.No asterisk except for the one game where the Pats were caught and the league ruled that they gained no material advantage from it.

Does Mangina still get an asterisk for being a hypocritical dbag?

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Interesting link this AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...o_battle-1.html

Didn't the league SPECIFICALLY tell teams THIS YEAR not to do it?

This is old news.... Email when Mangini GETS CAUGHT and I'll asterisk his ### too and call him a dopey moron for doing it In the Face of direct League Orders...

Boy, the backpeddalling by Jets fans is going to be funny to watch here.They got caught. The Jets cameraman was removed. Nobody turned them in to the league office.

At least we know that the goalposts have shifted to THIS YEAR. Thanks for that.

Backpeddling?I said this from Day 1....... If Mangini gets caught doing something I'll asterisk his ### call him a moron for doing it and I'll refrain from making it an issue for 6 months and try to divert the issue to other teams.

Yeah.. THIS YEAR, the league said they were going to enforce this rule...

THEY ENFORCED IT.....

Case closed.

So then, since the Pats got caught week 1 of this year and couldn't have benefited from the footage gained, there should be no asterisk.. since taping last year is apparently okay according to your logic, right? If pats are "Cheaters" for taping previously then so are the Jets.

If ONLY cheating THIS YEAR is cheating and all cheating from previous years is okay, then I guess the Pats don't need an asterisk since:

1) They would have stomped a mud hole in the Jets without footage

2) The tapes were caught before pats could benefit from them... therefore the Pats have not benefited from video this year.

SWEET! glad we got that asterisk thing cleared up.

You can look at it two ways....

The "CHEATER" angle is by the fans and a lot of em just having fun.....

The Asterisk and the "Cheater" thing isn't "Official"..... it's just something "Out there".. Feel free to call the Jets or anyone lese Cheaters and Enjoy it.

The other angle is the League angle....

I don't think the league simply took away a 1st round pick and penalized the Pats "FOR CHEATING".....



I think the league penalized the Pats for Cheating, IN THE FACE OF DIRECT LEAGUE ORDERS TO STOP CHEATING NOW.............OR ELSE.....

So, feel free to call the Jets Cheaters, Rats whatever you want..... But, No, this year AFTER THE LEAGUE SPECIFICALLY WARNED TEAMS THAT A SEVERE PENALTY WOULD COME DOWN, I don't see any evidence of the Jets cheating IN THE FACE of what the league just told them...

So, yeah, i think the rule were changed a bit THIS YEAR.....

But, if anyone wants to call the Jets names, it sounds good to me... A loss of a 1st round pick would be crushing to the Jets though.... I doubt they have the balls to Cheat AFTER being specifically warned on what might have been a grey area in the league PRIOR.

The situation:Before this year, many teams (if you believe Jimmy Johnson) and the Jets (if you believe the "league source" in this article) engaged in this EXACT ACTIVITY. Furthermore, such activity was not "news". To the best of my knowledge, NO ONE has come forward and said anything remotely like New England was the only team engaged in this activity. To the contrary, it appears that this practice was WIDE SPREAD.

THIS YEAR, as you rightly note above, BB got bagged primarily for disregarding guidance from the commissioner's office.

I have no problem if folks want to apply an asterisk to the Patriots accomplishments. My point is that if due dilegence is done, you're going to end up with a list that doesn't just include the Patriots and the Jets. What's unknown is if this will be a 6 team list or a 26 team list.

Lastly, the entire concept of the asterisk becomes even more laughable when you start considering activity like salary cap manipulation, coaching cut blocking, coaching illegal picks, widespread performance enhancement, etc.

Ultimately, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. But this doesn't stop a myriad of posters applying the asterisk, because it's born from the perspective that all the other teams in the NFL may be dirty, but I "know" that mine isn't, so I get to pass judgement at my leisure, particularly if a given coach is "not a nice man" because he pushed a photographer, had a marriage fall apart, or resigned when he found out his old head coach was still going to be calling the shots as GM.

Peace out.

 

[Reaper]

So cheating is REALLY cheating until you've been caught by the league and warned personally to not do it?



Just making sure where we're establishing our moral baselines at.

Hey complain to the league for taking the draft pick away.

If you speed every day on your way to work and then 1 day a cop tells you I WILL BE RIGHT HERE AGAIN TOMMORROW... You speed and I'll fine you $200.00

And you come out tomorrow and fly right past him and he fines you $200.00

yeah, not sure if it says anything about morality but... There was a RULE that wasn't being enforced prior but, you were Warned it was going to be enforced and you did it anyway...

But, the guy who didn't speed after knowing for sure it was going to be enforced - Is he a cheater ALSO... Maybe, run with that if you want.

But, if you're caught, Pay the fine and move on.

 

[Keys Myaths]

So cheating is REALLY cheating until you've been caught by the league and warned personally to not do it?



Just making sure where we're establishing our moral baselines at.

Morality has very little to do with rules/laws.

 

[parrot]

In a memo to NFL head coaches and general managers on Sept. 6, 2006, NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson wrote: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

 

[Workhorse]

It just seems to me that the issue really isn't "cheating", it's blatantly ignoring a league directive.

Fine. The Patriots paid the price.

But it's time to drop the asterisk talk.

 

[scapegoat]

lol Dude nobody's saying the pats shouldn't have been fined... though it's entertaining watching you trying to shove the conversation in that direction.

The fact of the matter is that the Jets got nailed for the SAME thing last year.... so they are "cheaters" as well.. they just were lucky the Pats didn't whine to the league about it like Mangina did Week 1 of this year.

It's entertaining that the entire forum BLOWS UP when the pats get caught with cameras on the sidelines.. but when the pathetic jets get nailed this place goes suspiciously silent.

Good stuff.

 

[scapegoat]

In a memo to NFL head coaches and general managers on Sept. 6, 2006, NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson wrote: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

uh oh. Jets•

 

[Reaper]

Interesting link this AM:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...o_battle-1.html

Didn't the league SPECIFICALLY tell teams THIS YEAR not to do it?

This is old news.... Email when Mangini GETS CAUGHT and I'll asterisk his ### too and call him a dopey moron for doing it In the Face of direct League Orders...

Boy, the backpeddalling by Jets fans is going to be funny to watch here.They got caught. The Jets cameraman was removed. Nobody turned them in to the league office.

At least we know that the goalposts have shifted to THIS YEAR. Thanks for that.

Backpeddling?I said this from Day 1....... If Mangini gets caught doing something I'll asterisk his ### call him a moron for doing it and I'll refrain from making it an issue for 6 months and try to divert the issue to other teams.

Yeah.. THIS YEAR, the league said they were going to enforce this rule...

THEY ENFORCED IT.....

Case closed.

So then, since the Pats got caught week 1 of this year and couldn't have benefited from the footage gained, there should be no asterisk.. since taping last year is apparently okay according to your logic, right? If pats are "Cheaters" for taping previously then so are the Jets.

If ONLY cheating THIS YEAR is cheating and all cheating from previous years is okay, then I guess the Pats don't need an asterisk since:

1) They would have stomped a mud hole in the Jets without footage

2) The tapes were caught before pats could benefit from them... therefore the Pats have not benefited from video this year.

SWEET! glad we got that asterisk thing cleared up.

You can look at it two ways....

The "CHEATER" angle is by the fans and a lot of em just having fun.....

The Asterisk and the "Cheater" thing isn't "Official"..... it's just something "Out there".. Feel free to call the Jets or anyone lese Cheaters and Enjoy it.

The other angle is the League angle....

I don't think the league simply took away a 1st round pick and penalized the Pats "FOR CHEATING".....



I think the league penalized the Pats for Cheating, IN THE FACE OF DIRECT LEAGUE ORDERS TO STOP CHEATING NOW.............OR ELSE.....

So, feel free to call the Jets Cheaters, Rats whatever you want..... But, No, this year AFTER THE LEAGUE SPECIFICALLY WARNED TEAMS THAT A SEVERE PENALTY WOULD COME DOWN, I don't see any evidence of the Jets cheating IN THE FACE of what the league just told them...

So, yeah, i think the rule were changed a bit THIS YEAR.....

But, if anyone wants to call the Jets names, it sounds good to me... A loss of a 1st round pick would be crushing to the Jets though.... I doubt they have the balls to Cheat AFTER being specifically warned on what might have been a grey area in the league PRIOR.

The situation:Before this year, many teams (if you believe Jimmy Johnson) and the Jets (if you believe the "league source" in this article) engaged in this EXACT ACTIVITY. Furthermore, such activity was not "news". To the best of my knowledge, NO ONE has come forward and said anything remotely like New England was the only team engaged in this activity. To the contrary, it appears that this practice was WIDE SPREAD.

THIS YEAR, as you rightly note above, BB got bagged primarily for disregarding guidance from the commissioner's office.

I have no problem if folks want to apply an asterisk to the Patriots accomplishments. My point is that if due dilegence is done, you're going to end up with a list that doesn't just include the Patriots and the Jets. What's unknown is if this will be a 6 team list or a 26 team list.

Lastly, the entire concept of the asterisk becomes even more laughable when you start considering activity like salary cap manipulation, coaching cut blocking, coaching illegal picks, widespread performance enhancement, etc.

Ultimately, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. But this doesn't stop a myriad of posters applying the asterisk, because it's born from the perspective that all the other teams in the NFL may be dirty, but I "know" that mine isn't, so I get to pass judgement at my leisure, particularly if a given coach is "not a nice man" because he pushed a photographer, had a marriage fall apart, or resigned when he found out his old head coach was still going to be calling the shots as GM.

Peace out.

In reality.... The asterisk part.. .Which really means nothing, is more likely a lot of posters having fun with the fact tht pats fans in general here get so easily wound up and fight to the death on every issue to defend their Team......

Does anyone REALLY think the Pats are going to be :"Asterisked"???

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh there's an asterisk now, OMG, lets fight this on message boards..... HEY!! THEY"RE TRYING TO ASTERISK US.... We MUST Fight!!!! Quick Gather all the tools!!!!

All ridiculous....

The only thing that really matters is that the league came down and warned teams THIS YEAR NOT TO DO IT...

Bellichik DID IT.... He got caught... He paid the price...

Wake me when the next guy GETS CAUGHT. IN THE FACE OF A NEW LEAGUE DIRECTIVE.....

 

[Reaper]

lol Dude nobody's saying the pats shouldn't have been fined... though it's entertaining watching you trying to shove the conversation in that direction. The fact of the matter is that the Jets got nailed for the SAME thing last year.... so they are "cheaters" as well.. they just were lucky the Pats didn't whine to the league about it like Mangina did Week 1 of this year. It's entertaining that the entire forum BLOWS UP when the pats get caught with cameras on the sidelines.. but when the pathetic jets get nailed this place goes suspiciously silent. Good stuff.

Yeah well, Except they didn't "GET NAILED" now did they.....If they did the league would take a pick from them.....

 

[scapegoat]

lol Dude nobody's saying the pats shouldn't have been fined... though it's entertaining watching you trying to shove the conversation in that direction. The fact of the matter is that the Jets got nailed for the SAME thing last year.... so they are "cheaters" as well.. they just were lucky the Pats didn't whine to the league about it like Mangina did Week 1 of this year. It's entertaining that the entire forum BLOWS UP when the pats get caught with cameras on the sidelines.. but when the pathetic jets get nailed this place goes suspiciously silent. Good stuff.

Yeah well, Except they didn't "GET NAILED" now did they.....If they did the league would take a pick from them.....

Was the cameraman caught doing something illlegal? Was he escorted from the stadium? Sounds to me like they were caught cheating. The only reason they still have their draft picks is because Belichick isn't a hypocritical rat like Mangina. You're welcome.

 

[TD Ryan]

Sounds to me like they were caught cheating.

hmmmm... sounds to me like they were caught with an illegal camera on the sidelines.

 

[Reaper]

Sounds to me like they were caught cheating.

hmmmm... sounds to me like they were caught with an illegal camera on the sidelines.

Actually in the mezzanine with confusion as to wether it was approved all by "a source"....Asterisk whoever you want though if it makes things feel better......THIS IS HILARIOUS

 

[TD Ryan]

Actually in the mezzanine with confusion as to wether it was approved all by "a source"....

does the mezzanine qualify as an appropriately covered camera?can a source... any source, "approve" not following a league directive?what's truly hilarious is that some people think a guy with a camera on a sideline (or in a mezzanine) will determine the outcome of an NFL game.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

So pats fans are taking solace in the fact that they are not alone in their mudhole, but rather may have the company of the one person in the league that they have the least respect for?

The Pats are tarnished. How much is up to each individual to determine for themselves. In my mind one can find tarnish on most if they look for it. I will say that tarnished silver still spends well and appreciates in value over time.

 

[mad sweeney]

Now we can officially close this thread? The Jets cheated too (and probably other undisclosed teams too). Instead of handling it themselves like the classy Patriots did, the Jets turned rats and cried to the league. But you'll never get the haters to admit it. They'll keep arguing the same old tired point. It's like a fillabuster. It's the only thing they can hang on to.

O you admit that the Patriots cheated last year? I mean, if you're saying that by doing this last year then the Jetsx cheated, so if the Pats did it last year or even the year before then that's also cheating. So therefore this is at least the second year in a row that the Pats have been cheating. Makes me think those asterisks on their SB seasons are a little more richly deserved. That is, if you consider unpunished reports to be cheating, which you clearly do.

 

[Road Warriors]

Now we can officially close this thread? The Jets cheated too (and probably other undisclosed teams too). Instead of handling it themselves like the classy Patriots did, the Jets turned rats and cried to the league. But you'll never get the haters to admit it. They'll keep arguing the same old tired point. It's like a fillabuster. It's the only thing they can hang on to.

O you admit that the Patriots cheated last year? I mean, if you're saying that by doing this last year then the Jetsx cheated, so if the Pats did it last year or even the year before then that's also cheating. So therefore this is at least the second year in a row that the Pats have been cheating. Makes me think those asterisks on their SB seasons are a little more richly deserved. That is, if you consider unpunished reports to be cheating, which you clearly do.

Because the Jets have show just how effective this particular type of cheating can be?

 

[greenline]

History will decide how bad this taping was. If it was commonplace and shrugged off by people in the league it will be no big deal. If it was isolated, then it will merit a larger degree of tarnishment. All this hard and fast labeling right now is misplaced in my opinion. Just my two cents.

 

[scapegoat]

History will decide how bad this taping was. If it was commonplace and shrugged off by people in the league it will be no big deal. If it was isolated, then it will merit a larger degree of tarnishment. All this hard and fast labeling right now is misplaced in my opinion. Just my two cents.

 

[Road Warriors]

History will decide how bad this taping was. If it was commonplace and shrugged off by people in the league it will be no big deal. If it was isolated, then it will merit a larger degree of tarnishment. All this hard and fast labeling right now is misplaced in my opinion. Just my two cents.

I don't expect anything to come of this. It isn't going to be investigated by the league. It is a story of an incident that occurred a year past. The sudden interest comes mostly from the beating given to the Pats for ( assuming the story is true ) essentially the same thing, and if the moralists that were outraged with the Patriots will have the same vigor in defending the NFL's integrity. I expect not.

 

[mad sweeney]

History will decide how bad this taping was. If it was commonplace and shrugged off by people in the league it will be no big deal. If it was isolated, then it will merit a larger degree of tarnishment. All this hard and fast labeling right now is misplaced in my opinion. Just my two cents.

I don't expect anything to come of this. It isn't going to be investigated by the league. It is a story of an incident that occurred a year past. The sudden interest comes mostly from the beating given to the Pats for ( assuming the story is true ) essentially the same thing, and if the moralists that were outraged with the Patriots will have the same vigor in defending the NFL's integrity. I expect not.

As soon as it's proven then sure. But by proving that the Jets "cheated" last year by doing this they'll (those righteous Pats fans crying out for justice) will also have to admit that the Pats cheated last year and the year before in all the incidents (Detroit, GB, Min, etc..) that have surfaced since the Pats were actually caught. I for one would like to see some of these outraged fans own up to that fact. If you're crying foul about the Jets, then you must also cry foul about the Pats last year. And if you have the Pats cheating for more than 2 years in a row then you have an established pattern that should lead all the way to their superbowl "wins". So Pats fans, is that what you want? An admission that the Jets cheated, and therefore a further indictment of the Pats. Because if you want the Jets banged for this, then you have to have the Pats banged for more than what they were already caught doing. And there are a lot more stories of the Pats doing this than the Jets. So is that what you really want?

 

[scapegoat]

I for one would like to see some of these outraged fans own up to that fact.

Have you been living in a hole? Just about any reputable Pats fan on this forum has admitted that the Pats taped.. that it sucks that they stooped to that level... and that they were glad that they were punished for their transgressions. Hell I've typed that at least 2-3 times TODAY. The concern here is how widespread was this cheating... and if it's as widespread as Jimmy Johnson said:"I know for a fact there were various teams doing this, that's why the memo was sent to everybody," former NFL coach Jimmy Johnson said on Fox's pregame show in early September. "That doesn't make right, but a lot of teams are doing this."... then how much of an advantage was it? If it was widespread it doesn't make it right.. it doesn't mean the penalty should be lifted... but it DOES limit how much of a taint any reasonable person can put on their titles. Granted.. there are a lot of unreasonable "haters" like yourself who are going to run around yelling asterisk til the end of time, and I'm okay with that as it has no relevance on history. If it turns out that the Pats were the only ones cheating, then most definitely their 3 previous Super Bowl victories are worthy of scrutiny.

 

[Road Warriors]

History will decide how bad this taping was. If it was commonplace and shrugged off by people in the league it will be no big deal. If it was isolated, then it will merit a larger degree of tarnishment. All this hard and fast labeling right now is misplaced in my opinion. Just my two cents.

I don't expect anything to come of this. It isn't going to be investigated by the league. It is a story of an incident that occurred a year past. The sudden interest comes mostly from the beating given to the Pats for ( assuming the story is true ) essentially the same thing, and if the moralists that were outraged with the Patriots will have the same vigor in defending the NFL's integrity. I expect not.

As soon as it's proven then sure. But by proving that the Jets "cheated" last year by doing this they'll (those righteous Pats fans crying out for justice) will also have to admit that the Pats cheated last year and the year before in all the incidents (Detroit, GB, Min, etc..) that have surfaced since the Pats were actually caught. I for one would like to see some of these outraged fans own up to that fact. If you're crying foul about the Jets, then you must also cry foul about the Pats last year. And if you have the Pats cheating for more than 2 years in a row then you have an established pattern that should lead all the way to their superbowl "wins". So Pats fans, is that what you want? An admission that the Jets cheated, and therefore a further indictment of the Pats. Because if you want the Jets banged for this, then you have to have the Pats banged for more than what they were already caught doing. And there are a lot more stories of the Pats doing this than the Jets. So is that what you really want?

So if its true about the Jets, the Pats should get dinged more? OK, I get it. I'm just waiting for all the integrity moralists to get out their saddles and ride, on their high horse, again to defend the NFL.

 

[mad sweeney]

I for one would like to see some of these outraged fans own up to that fact.

Have you been living in a hole? Just about any reputable Pats fan on this forum has admitted that the Pats taped.. that it sucks that they stooped to that level... and that they were glad that they were punished for their transgressions. Hell I've typed that at least 2-3 times TODAY. The concern here is how widespread was this cheating... and if it's as widespread as Jimmy Johnson said:"I know for a fact there were various teams doing this, that's why the memo was sent to everybody," former NFL coach Jimmy Johnson said on Fox's pregame show in early September. "That doesn't make right, but a lot of teams are doing this."... then how much of an advantage was it? If it was widespread it doesn't make it right.. it doesn't mean the penalty should be lifted... but it DOES limit how much of a taint any reasonable person can put on their titles. Granted.. there are a lot of unreasonable "haters" like yourself who are going to run around yelling asterisk til the end of time, and I'm okay with that as it has no relevance on history. :(If it turns out that the Pats were the only ones cheating, then most definitely their 3 previous Super Bowl victories are worthy of scrutiny.

It doesn't matter if the Pats were the only ones cheating. If they cheated at all, refardless of what others did, then they are worthy of scrutiny. And if people want to go around screaming about the inegrity of the league based on a year old story then they should apply it to the big fish who is the only team I know of convicted of cheating. If the tone of the OP wasn't such a bible thumping roustabout indignant and blatant defense of the Pats by proxy then it probably wouldn't be such a big deal. You've got 1 story with no proof of any wrongdoing and you hold it up as proof positive of the Jets cheating with the integrity of the league at stake. Wheras I could find 3 or 4 of the same stories about the Pats in the last years. So I made the comparasin. Contrary to popular belief, I am not a Pats hater. I'm aa Pats Fan Who Thinks The World Is Out To Get Them Because Their Team Is Good Even Though They Were Caught Cheating But It Shouldn't Matter Because Other Teams Do It Hater. I look at most things objectively and if my observations go against the majority of pats fans then I'm a Pats Hater. But I just call it as I see it. And if this story is proof that the Jets cheated, as it's being touted by the OP who is calling for all Pats Haters to be outraged by it, then I point out that there should be even more outrage pointed at the Pats for the several similarly unsubstantiated claims.

 

[jscout]

Patriots fans aren't the ones crying foul. It's the haters who are crying foul when they demand that the Patriots achievements be asterisked. The NFL never ruled that there should be any footnoting of anything that the Patriots did as fallout from the video recording. It's that simple.

 

[mad sweeney]

History will decide how bad this taping was. If it was commonplace and shrugged off by people in the league it will be no big deal. If it was isolated, then it will merit a larger degree of tarnishment. All this hard and fast labeling right now is misplaced in my opinion. Just my two cents.

I don't expect anything to come of this. It isn't going to be investigated by the league. It is a story of an incident that occurred a year past. The sudden interest comes mostly from the beating given to the Pats for ( assuming the story is true ) essentially the same thing, and if the moralists that were outraged with the Patriots will have the same vigor in defending the NFL's integrity. I expect not.

As soon as it's proven then sure. But by proving that the Jets "cheated" last year by doing this they'll (those righteous Pats fans crying out for justice) will also have to admit that the Pats cheated last year and the year before in all the incidents (Detroit, GB, Min, etc..) that have surfaced since the Pats were actually caught. I for one would like to see some of these outraged fans own up to that fact. If you're crying foul about the Jets, then you must also cry foul about the Pats last year. And if you have the Pats cheating for more than 2 years in a row then you have an established pattern that should lead all the way to their superbowl "wins". So Pats fans, is that what you want? An admission that the Jets cheated, and therefore a further indictment of the Pats. Because if you want the Jets banged for this, then you have to have the Pats banged for more than what they were already caught doing. And there are a lot more stories of the Pats doing this than the Jets. So is that what you really want?

So if its true about the Jets, the Pats should get dinged more? OK, I get it. I'm just waiting for all the integrity moralists to get out their saddles and ride, on their high horse, again to defend the NFL.

Defend the NFL about what? That the NFL should deal with this story the same way it did with all the sotries about the Pats from the last few years? As in, do nothing? I don't understand what the NFL needs to be defended of.

 

[PMENFAN]

History will decide how bad this taping was. If it was commonplace and shrugged off by people in the league it will be no big deal. If it was isolated, then it will merit a larger degree of tarnishment. All this hard and fast labeling right now is misplaced in my opinion. Just my two cents.

I don't expect anything to come of this. It isn't going to be investigated by the league. It is a story of an incident that occurred a year past. The sudden interest comes mostly from the beating given to the Pats for ( assuming the story is true ) essentially the same thing, and if the moralists that were outraged with the Patriots will have the same vigor in defending the NFL's integrity. I expect not.

As soon as it's proven then sure. But by proving that the Jets "cheated" last year by doing this they'll (those righteous Pats fans crying out for justice) will also have to admit that the Pats cheated last year and the year before in all the incidents (Detroit, GB, Min, etc..) that have surfaced since the Pats were actually caught. I for one would like to see some of these outraged fans own up to that fact. If you're crying foul about the Jets, then you must also cry foul about the Pats last year. And if you have the Pats cheating for more than 2 years in a row then you have an established pattern that should lead all the way to their superbowl "wins". So Pats fans, is that what you want? An admission that the Jets cheated, and therefore a further indictment of the Pats. Because if you want the Jets banged for this, then you have to have the Pats banged for more than what they were already caught doing. And there are a lot more stories of the Pats doing this than the Jets. So is that what you really want?

Why would the league go back and investigate this? I think people brought it up solely because it's more substantiation of the whispers that this practice was widespread. Many acknowledge this already. Teh Pats were made an example because they blatantly violated the league directive. At least this Jet guy was in the stands, though having a video camera in the stands is a bit obvious too. The Pats guy was in plain view on the sidelines. At the end of the day, does any of it matter? The Pats lost a first round pick. That's huge. They were punished. My only wish is that all allegation of this activity, and it's methods, be published. Let's know for sure how wdespread it was and what to watch for, if that's going to be the rule. Better yet, it's a stupid rule. By the time teams deciper the hand signals for a week, they're changed. Put communication systems in the helmets if you don't want it to go on. I personally feel hiding, or cleverly disguising the signals is part of the game, just as it is in baseball, or any other sport where you relay calls. To me, this whole aregument is just funny.

 

[Footballg]

Have you been living in a hole? Just about any reputable Pats fan on this forum has admitted that the Pats taped.. that it sucks that they stooped to that level...

Stooped to what level --- NFL level?? You really don't need to apologize for the Pats or their fanbase just because the Pats are great. I know it's that whole embarrassment of riches thing goin' on, but there's really no apology needed from you just because you root for a team that kicks all other teams in the ###.Hey, what game was it that they actually had the parabolic mic on Brady's audibles -- Baltimore? I can't remember.This is possibly the most ######ed thread I have ever seen.