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QB Shedeur Sanders, CLE (1 Viewer)

You snipped the rest of my post which gave caveats given the passed time, but ok.
Wasn't trying to snip. It is not the same situation. It's not even the same situation the last time the Browns signed him off the scrap heap. Time passes quickly and Joe knows this is his last rodeo.
Per the Browns QB situation.
Browns FO is known for trading backup QBs who flash for future draft picks.
They also can place one on the practice squad and Watson will inevitably be placed on IR or the PUP.

The interesting tidbit that no one has mentioned yet is that Dillion Gabriel is a lefty and that means the ball is rotating off his hand in the opposite direction of the other three QBs and in past NFL training camps that 'tends' to cause a higher percentage of drops when it hits the receiver's handsWhy Left-Handed Quarterbacks Are So Rare
...This paucity of left-handed quarterbacks is truly bizarre. Lefties make up around 10 percent of the population, but, according to ESPN’s stats department, there have been just 33 lefty QBs in the NFL since 1950...
... how lefties play the position. They tend to prefer to roll out to the left, for example, and throws to the right side of the field are more difficult for them. Cohn, who wrote a lengthy piece on the scarcity of lefty QBs, found a few examples of coaches who didn’t want to restructure their playbooks to cater to southpaws...
...And then there’s the matter of spin. When a receiver gets the ball from a right-handed quarterback, he’s catching a spiral that rotates counterclockwise; for lefties, it’s clockwise. This may not seem like a big deal, but wide receivers tend to be a fussy bunch. “Regardless of where I run on the field, unless I run an out to the right, the ball is always going to be spinning away from me,” Hall of Fame wideout Cris Carter told NFL Films. It’s a legitimate adjustment,
--------------
It is a legit thing to consider when one QB is a rookie lefty competing against three righties BEFORE factoring in that he's the only sub 6' QB in the league and all of the issues that brings.
 
I didn't hear that Deion was very involved with Shedeur's draft process. Quite the contrary, it seems he took a back seat. What I attributed his fall to was there are tons of videos out there with Shedeur being disrespectful to opposing teams coaching staffs (threatening physical violence?). And I saw a video that had Shedeur and Cam at a toss around and Shedeur just kept talking about being a rapper and his clothing line. Cam just kept saying he's focused on being a football player. Shedeur doesn't seem to be focused on his football future. And he has a god complex because his dad was one of the greatest athletes to play the sport (and baseball). Shedeur needs to realize he is NO WHERE close to his dad's level of ability and talent. If I'm not mistaken, even Deion dabbled in the rap game.
 
It is not the same situation. It's not even the same situation the last time the Browns signed him off the scrap heap.
That's what I was saying with my qualifiers. If I wasn't clear about that, my apologies. Sometimes what I'm thinking doesn't translate to my writing.

I just know what happened in Baltimore 7 years ago. Joe's probably a lot better mentor than he was then.
 
I didn't hear that Deion was very involved with Shedeur's draft process. Quite the contrary, it seems he took a back seat. What I attributed his fall to was there are tons of videos out there with Shedeur being disrespectful to opposing teams coaching staffs (threatening physical violence?). And I saw a video that had Shedeur and Cam at a toss around and Shedeur just kept talking about being a rapper and his clothing line. Cam just kept saying he's focused on being a football player. Shedeur doesn't seem to be focused on his football future. And he has a god complex because his dad was one of the greatest athletes to play the sport (and baseball). Shedeur needs to realize he is NO WHERE close to his dad's level of ability and talent. If I'm not mistaken, even Deion dabbled in the rap game.

Good thing he stuck with sports :lol:

I had forgotten all about this, thanks for the reminder (or maybe not)
 
Do you think they're honestly competing for something this year?
The players and the staff want to win games so they're going to go with the best options to win games. Starting/playing a raw and not ready rookie QB is not likely going to win games. If Pickett is the better option at backup I'd expect them to keep him.
 
For all the talk on Sanders and pre draft meetings, this from Jalen Milroe was super interesting.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DI9eumPyW2v/
I won't get into it this thread, but there's a reason some of us had Milroe over Sanders and it wasn't just the physical ability. I'm pulling for this kid. He's doing it right.
Of course. His physical ability plus being an Academic All-American are great reasons to take a risk on his suspect passing ability.

Milroe is the only QB, outside of Ward (who I only really believe in because the same pundits who were promoting Shedeur were promoting Ward), I would have taken over Shedeeur. But that would have been based on potential not production. The intelligence/athleticism upside of Milroe is tantalizing.
 
I want to make myself very clear because it could seem like I am trying to stoke the racism fires and that is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE
I do not think race played a factor in any of this.
I do think there is a disconnect between Baby Boomers and Gen Z, these new players entering the NFL
Some of these noobs already have more money than they will earn on their rookie contracts
Will dip out of the non-football Sander's stuff after this but let me meet you half way here.

Kids now have it harder than I did growing up, least IMO. Sure, some things were harder then. Few if any kids are getting shoved in lockers or beat up anymore. But they are getting blasted on social media. If I peed my pants in school the whole school might know by the end of the week. Now, kids in a district 30 miles away would know before my pants dried. Sander's definitely has had more public scrutiny that Eli, or probably anyone from earlier generations has had. But I think scrutiny from the league and the teams drafting these guys has stayed much more level. Again, I'm sure it's increased a bit, but mainly because so much of people's lives now have a digital footprint. Thank the lord there isn't a digital record of what 17 year old me thought about the world.

And, this is where I think people's viewpoints will start to vary more, but I feel (and it seems I'm not alone here), Sheduer (and Deion) did themselves 0 favors here. Not only did they not try to stay lowkey, they went the complete opposite direction and just about every decision, interview, tweet, etc. was seemingly to garner more attention. So, while from a macro view I can feel some empathy for kids today and what they have to go through past generations never did; it's hard to have that same empathy for someone who spent the majority of his time in college and the pre draft process actively seeking this attention out, even in negative ways.

The fact reports started leaking as soon as the combine about his negative attitude and demeanor (and had to get attacked by people like Josina Anderson slapping the race card on it), and are still coming out about him playing card games, taking phone calls, giving attitude to coaching staffs during his literal job interviews... sorry. I'm not going to be able to muster up a whole lot of compassion for this kid right now. I think he got a taste of what the youngins would call FAAFO these days. I keep reading "what about these other guys with criminal charges!"; what about personal responsibility? What about the world is fair? I'm sure everyone you work with that gets paid more must be because they are smarter and harder working than you? Or maybe they just kiss butt better. Maybe they know how to "play the game". Maybe they just hound their bosses for raises more often.

Sander's has an opportunity to make this whole debacle the brief first chapter of a what could be a best selling book. And realistically, it shouldn't be that hard. Gabriel is his only real competition to being potentially the best QB Cleveland has had in a decade +. But nepotism isn't driving the bus anymore. He's can't throw his line under the bus like college. He can't change the OC calls on the line and blame them when the play busts. He can't refuse to shake hands with someone over a twitter beef. He can't rely on Dad to carry the load and clean up the mess. It's likely to be the hardest he's ever had to work in his life to this point doing things which he's never had to do. Because, especially being QB, it's a lot more than on the field stuff that paves the path to his success. It's knowing your place, being a good teammate, putting the weight and blame on your own shoulders, listening to coaches even when you disagree, doing things even if you don't think it's the right thing to do. IMO, that'll all be ten times harder for him than beating out a 40 year old Flacco, because its seemingly stuff he hasn't put a whole lot of effort into up to this point.

But very possible for him. And if I picked one family member to have in my ear of his whole crew, it'd be Shilo. That kid did and said just about everything right through all this, and probably should get more credit for it. Hope he finds success with the Bucs. He "fired" his dad and hired an actual agent, so that's already a head start.
EXTREMELY well said. Let's not pretend the kid has no shot. He has the exact same shot he would have had as a late second rounder (which is where many had his talent pegged), just without the mile long rope a second rounder would have. If his talent is anywhere close to where he obviously thinks it is, he should win that QB battle. At worst he should spend half a season behind Flacco
I would argue his chances of making it as a pro went up.

a little humble pie and a chip on his shoulder with a desire to prove he can cut it. if he uses this the right way, works hard allows himself to be coached up, this can be a positive.

lots of first round picks think they are too good for all of that. but hes not a first, so this takes some of the pressure off of him and maybe, just maybe he will be a player.

I personally think that while it doesnt seem like it, this could be the best thing that ever could have happened to him.
 
For all the talk on Sanders and pre draft meetings, this from Jalen Milroe was super interesting.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DI9eumPyW2v/
I won't get into it this thread, but there's a reason some of us had Milroe over Sanders and it wasn't just the physical ability. I'm pulling for this kid. He's doing it right.
Of course. His physical ability plus being an Academic All-American are great reasons to take a risk on his suspect passing ability.

Milroe is the only QB, outside of Ward (who I only really believe in because the same pundits who were promoting Shedeur were promoting Ward), I would have taken over Shedeeur. But that would have been based on potential not production. The intelligence/athleticism upside of Milroe is tantalizing.
yeah I looked at his scouting report, and there is lots to like.
 
I didn't hear that Deion was very involved with Shedeur's draft process. Quite the contrary, it seems he took a back seat. What I attributed his fall to was there are tons of videos out there with Shedeur being disrespectful to opposing teams coaching staffs (threatening physical violence?). And I saw a video that had Shedeur and Cam at a toss around and Shedeur just kept talking about being a rapper and his clothing line. Cam just kept saying he's focused on being a football player. Shedeur doesn't seem to be focused on his football future. And he has a god complex because his dad was one of the greatest athletes to play the sport (and baseball). Shedeur needs to realize he is NO WHERE close to his dad's level of ability and talent. If I'm not mistaken, even Deion dabbled in the rap game.

Good thing he stuck with sports :lol:

I had forgotten all about this, thanks for the reminder (or maybe not)

I have the CD of Deion's album. Because someone put it in as a gag gift in the FBG Staff white elephant gift exchange sometime back in the early to mid 2000s, and I ended up with it.

Have hung onto it all these years waiting for the perfect time to re-gift it.
 
Brett Kollmann
After some thought, I think part of the issue for the Shedeur Sanders camp is that they didn’t hire an agent. An agent’s job is to give the client an accurate range of where they are projected to go so they know how to navigate the process.

Shedeur approached the process like a lock for the top 5 because that’s what the Sanders family honestly thought he was going to be. And unfortunately, they didn’t have anyone in their circle willing to tell them otherwise.

If he went into it knowing teams had day two grades on him, who knows…he may have done things differently. That’s why agents are important.
great point!
 
You snipped the rest of my post which gave caveats given the passed time, but ok.
Wasn't trying to snip. It is not the same situation. It's not even the same situation the last time the Browns signed him off the scrap heap. Time passes quickly and Joe knows this is his last rodeo.
Per the Browns QB situation.
Browns FO is known for trading backup QBs who flash for future draft picks.
They also can place one on the practice squad and Watson will inevitably be placed on IR or the PUP.

The interesting tidbit that no one has mentioned yet is that Dillion Gabriel is a lefty and that means the ball is rotating off his hand in the opposite direction of the other three QBs and in past NFL training camps that 'tends' to cause a higher percentage of drops when it hits the receiver's handsWhy Left-Handed Quarterbacks Are So Rare
...This paucity of left-handed quarterbacks is truly bizarre. Lefties make up around 10 percent of the population, but, according to ESPN’s stats department, there have been just 33 lefty QBs in the NFL since 1950...
... how lefties play the position. They tend to prefer to roll out to the left, for example, and throws to the right side of the field are more difficult for them. Cohn, who wrote a lengthy piece on the scarcity of lefty QBs, found a few examples of coaches who didn’t want to restructure their playbooks to cater to southpaws...
...And then there’s the matter of spin. When a receiver gets the ball from a right-handed quarterback, he’s catching a spiral that rotates counterclockwise; for lefties, it’s clockwise. This may not seem like a big deal, but wide receivers tend to be a fussy bunch. “Regardless of where I run on the field, unless I run an out to the right, the ball is always going to be spinning away from me,” Hall of Fame wideout Cris Carter told NFL Films. It’s a legitimate adjustment,
--------------
It is a legit thing to consider when one QB is a rookie lefty competing against three righties BEFORE factoring in that he's the only sub 6' QB in the league and all of the issues that brings.
Young QBs with promise aren't always that easy to just put onto the practice squad. Teams rarely put 3rd rounders there, and if Sanders shows any real promise in camp he won't be able to be safely moved there either
 
For all the talk on Sanders and pre draft meetings, this from Jalen Milroe was super interesting.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DI9eumPyW2v/
Love that. I hate that there's some expectation that you're supposed to say all the perfect answers on an application or in an interview. Like you're just supposed to look up interview answers in advance and recite them like a robot. I always tried to be as honest as possible on applications. Probably why I never even got an interview anywhere. I thank God for my dad employing me.
 
For all the talk on Sanders and pre draft meetings, this from Jalen Milroe was super interesting.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DI9eumPyW2v/
Love that. I hate that there's some expectation that you're supposed to say all the perfect answers on an application or in an interview. Like you're just supposed to look up interview answers in advance and recite them like a robot. I always tried to be as honest as possible on applications. Probably why I never even got an interview anywhere. I thank God for my dad employing me.

conversely, Sanders reportedly got very defensive.
 
My answer to your greatest weakness question in an interview is, pause, think, I guess my weakness is not knowing what my weakness is.
I do know, but I'm not telling anyone.
 
You snipped the rest of my post which gave caveats given the passed time, but ok.
Wasn't trying to snip. It is not the same situation. It's not even the same situation the last time the Browns signed him off the scrap heap. Time passes quickly and Joe knows this is his last rodeo.
Per the Browns QB situation.
Browns FO is known for trading backup QBs who flash for future draft picks.
They also can place one on the practice squad and Watson will inevitably be placed on IR or the PUP.

The interesting tidbit that no one has mentioned yet is that Dillion Gabriel is a lefty and that means the ball is rotating off his hand in the opposite direction of the other three QBs and in past NFL training camps that 'tends' to cause a higher percentage of drops when it hits the receiver's handsWhy Left-Handed Quarterbacks Are So Rare
...This paucity of left-handed quarterbacks is truly bizarre. Lefties make up around 10 percent of the population, but, according to ESPN’s stats department, there have been just 33 lefty QBs in the NFL since 1950...
... how lefties play the position. They tend to prefer to roll out to the left, for example, and throws to the right side of the field are more difficult for them. Cohn, who wrote a lengthy piece on the scarcity of lefty QBs, found a few examples of coaches who didn’t want to restructure their playbooks to cater to southpaws...
...And then there’s the matter of spin. When a receiver gets the ball from a right-handed quarterback, he’s catching a spiral that rotates counterclockwise; for lefties, it’s clockwise. This may not seem like a big deal, but wide receivers tend to be a fussy bunch. “Regardless of where I run on the field, unless I run an out to the right, the ball is always going to be spinning away from me,” Hall of Fame wideout Cris Carter told NFL Films. It’s a legitimate adjustment,
--------------
It is a legit thing to consider when one QB is a rookie lefty competing against three righties BEFORE factoring in that he's the only sub 6' QB in the league and all of the issues that brings.
Young QBs with promise aren't always that easy to just put onto the practice squad. Teams rarely put 3rd rounders there, and if Sanders shows any real promise in camp he won't be able to be safely moved there either
Honestly, I think they keep 3 on the roster. Trade Dillon or PS. Watson to IR.
 
You snipped the rest of my post which gave caveats given the passed time, but ok.
Wasn't trying to snip. It is not the same situation. It's not even the same situation the last time the Browns signed him off the scrap heap. Time passes quickly and Joe knows this is his last rodeo.
Per the Browns QB situation.
Browns FO is known for trading backup QBs who flash for future draft picks.
They also can place one on the practice squad and Watson will inevitably be placed on IR or the PUP.

The interesting tidbit that no one has mentioned yet is that Dillion Gabriel is a lefty and that means the ball is rotating off his hand in the opposite direction of the other three QBs and in past NFL training camps that 'tends' to cause a higher percentage of drops when it hits the receiver's handsWhy Left-Handed Quarterbacks Are So Rare
...This paucity of left-handed quarterbacks is truly bizarre. Lefties make up around 10 percent of the population, but, according to ESPN’s stats department, there have been just 33 lefty QBs in the NFL since 1950...
... how lefties play the position. They tend to prefer to roll out to the left, for example, and throws to the right side of the field are more difficult for them. Cohn, who wrote a lengthy piece on the scarcity of lefty QBs, found a few examples of coaches who didn’t want to restructure their playbooks to cater to southpaws...
...And then there’s the matter of spin. When a receiver gets the ball from a right-handed quarterback, he’s catching a spiral that rotates counterclockwise; for lefties, it’s clockwise. This may not seem like a big deal, but wide receivers tend to be a fussy bunch. “Regardless of where I run on the field, unless I run an out to the right, the ball is always going to be spinning away from me,” Hall of Fame wideout Cris Carter told NFL Films. It’s a legitimate adjustment,
--------------
It is a legit thing to consider when one QB is a rookie lefty competing against three righties BEFORE factoring in that he's the only sub 6' QB in the league and all of the issues that brings.
Young QBs with promise aren't always that easy to just put onto the practice squad. Teams rarely put 3rd rounders there, and if Sanders shows any real promise in camp he won't be able to be safely moved there either
Honestly, I think they keep 3 on the roster. Trade Dillon or PS. Watson to IR.
Why would they trade the QB they drafted before and prefer over Sanders? Unless the owner makes them do it, which is always a possibility, that isn't happening.
 
You snipped the rest of my post which gave caveats given the passed time, but ok.
Wasn't trying to snip. It is not the same situation. It's not even the same situation the last time the Browns signed him off the scrap heap. Time passes quickly and Joe knows this is his last rodeo.
Per the Browns QB situation.
Browns FO is known for trading backup QBs who flash for future draft picks.
They also can place one on the practice squad and Watson will inevitably be placed on IR or the PUP.

The interesting tidbit that no one has mentioned yet is that Dillion Gabriel is a lefty and that means the ball is rotating off his hand in the opposite direction of the other three QBs and in past NFL training camps that 'tends' to cause a higher percentage of drops when it hits the receiver's handsWhy Left-Handed Quarterbacks Are So Rare
...This paucity of left-handed quarterbacks is truly bizarre. Lefties make up around 10 percent of the population, but, according to ESPN’s stats department, there have been just 33 lefty QBs in the NFL since 1950...
... how lefties play the position. They tend to prefer to roll out to the left, for example, and throws to the right side of the field are more difficult for them. Cohn, who wrote a lengthy piece on the scarcity of lefty QBs, found a few examples of coaches who didn’t want to restructure their playbooks to cater to southpaws...
...And then there’s the matter of spin. When a receiver gets the ball from a right-handed quarterback, he’s catching a spiral that rotates counterclockwise; for lefties, it’s clockwise. This may not seem like a big deal, but wide receivers tend to be a fussy bunch. “Regardless of where I run on the field, unless I run an out to the right, the ball is always going to be spinning away from me,” Hall of Fame wideout Cris Carter told NFL Films. It’s a legitimate adjustment,
--------------
It is a legit thing to consider when one QB is a rookie lefty competing against three righties BEFORE factoring in that he's the only sub 6' QB in the league and all of the issues that brings.
Young QBs with promise aren't always that easy to just put onto the practice squad. Teams rarely put 3rd rounders there, and if Sanders shows any real promise in camp he won't be able to be safely moved there either
Honestly, I think they keep 3 on the roster. Trade Dillon or PS. Watson to IR.
Why would they trade the QB they drafted before and prefer over Sanders? Unless the owner makes them do it, which is always a possibility, that isn't happening.
Evaluations of the QBs will change after several practices and preseason.
 
You snipped the rest of my post which gave caveats given the passed time, but ok.
Wasn't trying to snip. It is not the same situation. It's not even the same situation the last time the Browns signed him off the scrap heap. Time passes quickly and Joe knows this is his last rodeo.
Per the Browns QB situation.
Browns FO is known for trading backup QBs who flash for future draft picks.
They also can place one on the practice squad and Watson will inevitably be placed on IR or the PUP.

The interesting tidbit that no one has mentioned yet is that Dillion Gabriel is a lefty and that means the ball is rotating off his hand in the opposite direction of the other three QBs and in past NFL training camps that 'tends' to cause a higher percentage of drops when it hits the receiver's handsWhy Left-Handed Quarterbacks Are So Rare
...This paucity of left-handed quarterbacks is truly bizarre. Lefties make up around 10 percent of the population, but, according to ESPN’s stats department, there have been just 33 lefty QBs in the NFL since 1950...
... how lefties play the position. They tend to prefer to roll out to the left, for example, and throws to the right side of the field are more difficult for them. Cohn, who wrote a lengthy piece on the scarcity of lefty QBs, found a few examples of coaches who didn’t want to restructure their playbooks to cater to southpaws...
...And then there’s the matter of spin. When a receiver gets the ball from a right-handed quarterback, he’s catching a spiral that rotates counterclockwise; for lefties, it’s clockwise. This may not seem like a big deal, but wide receivers tend to be a fussy bunch. “Regardless of where I run on the field, unless I run an out to the right, the ball is always going to be spinning away from me,” Hall of Fame wideout Cris Carter told NFL Films. It’s a legitimate adjustment,
--------------
It is a legit thing to consider when one QB is a rookie lefty competing against three righties BEFORE factoring in that he's the only sub 6' QB in the league and all of the issues that brings.
Young QBs with promise aren't always that easy to just put onto the practice squad. Teams rarely put 3rd rounders there, and if Sanders shows any real promise in camp he won't be able to be safely moved there either
Honestly, I think they keep 3 on the roster. Trade Dillon or PS. Watson to IR.
Gonna be tough getting Dillon to the PS.

IMO barring an outright meltdown by either rookie Flacco and Pickett are on thinner ice.
 
The Pickett addition definitely looked questionable in hindsight. And then I saw a few clips of the Browns war room when they made the Sanders pick. I don't think anyone could convince me that wasn't the result of a phone call from Haslam saying something along the lines of "I sign your paychecks, you make this pick right now". They looked like they were in a hostage situation, and jokes aside, I'd be money they pretty much were.

So unless they can convince Haslam to move off it, and would likely need to get better than original compensation in a trade to move off Sanders, I'd agree. Either Flacco or Pickett are getting moved.

Probably getting ahead of myself, but my biggest struggle right now if I were on that staff would be who they play in preseason. If they put Sanders out there for a stretch... IMO all he needs to do is put up one preseason Tommy Devito looking sweet TD bomb and they are going to be wading through the ish all season long. PS and not dressed on gamedays won't be enough to stave off people posting a clip of Sanders beating up on third stringers in a preseason game every single week if/when Flacco/Pickett/Gabriel are struggling. If it was me, I'd just lean into the circus at that point and throw Sanders out there. Either he does well and you look smart, or he bombs and people will read between the lines and see your hands were tied by an overly involved owner. Wouldn't be the first time, as Haslam was the impetus behind the Johnny Manzel experiment as well.

I know NFL coaching gigs are hard to get and sometimes you have little to no choice, but I don't know how they even attract candidates at this point.

War room during the pick for those who didn't see it - that bearded dude in the back is clapping how I do when work calls a townhall meeting and wants me to get excited about how the upcoming layoffs are going to be good for our company.
 
The Pickett addition definitely looked questionable in hindsight. And then I saw a few clips of the Browns war room when they made the Sanders pick. I don't think anyone could convince me that wasn't the result of a phone call from Haslam saying something along the lines of "I sign your paychecks, you make this pick right now". They looked like they were in a hostage situation, and jokes aside, I'd be money they pretty much were.

So unless they can convince Haslam to move off it, and would likely need to get better than original compensation in a trade to move off Sanders, I'd agree. Either Flacco or Pickett are getting moved.

Probably getting ahead of myself, but my biggest struggle right now if I were on that staff would be who they play in preseason. If they put Sanders out there for a stretch... IMO all he needs to do is put up one preseason Tommy Devito looking sweet TD bomb and they are going to be wading through the ish all season long. PS and not dressed on gamedays won't be enough to stave off people posting a clip of Sanders beating up on third stringers in a preseason game every single week if/when Flacco/Pickett/Gabriel are struggling. If it was me, I'd just lean into the circus at that point and throw Sanders out there. Either he does well and you look smart, or he bombs and people will read between the lines and see your hands were tied by an overly involved owner. Wouldn't be the first time, as Haslam was the impetus behind the Johnny Manzel experiment as well.

I know NFL coaching gigs are hard to get and sometimes you have little to no choice, but I don't know how they even attract candidates at this point.

War room during the pick for those who didn't see it - that bearded dude in the back is clapping how I do when work calls a townhall meeting and wants me to get excited about how the upcoming layoffs are going to be good for our company.
That’s the obligatory clap you give when other kids outside of your own are walking up to graduate.
 
You snipped the rest of my post which gave caveats given the passed time, but ok.
Wasn't trying to snip. It is not the same situation. It's not even the same situation the last time the Browns signed him off the scrap heap. Time passes quickly and Joe knows this is his last rodeo.
Per the Browns QB situation.
Browns FO is known for trading backup QBs who flash for future draft picks.
They also can place one on the practice squad and Watson will inevitably be placed on IR or the PUP.

The interesting tidbit that no one has mentioned yet is that Dillion Gabriel is a lefty and that means the ball is rotating off his hand in the opposite direction of the other three QBs and in past NFL training camps that 'tends' to cause a higher percentage of drops when it hits the receiver's handsWhy Left-Handed Quarterbacks Are So Rare
...This paucity of left-handed quarterbacks is truly bizarre. Lefties make up around 10 percent of the population, but, according to ESPN’s stats department, there have been just 33 lefty QBs in the NFL since 1950...
... how lefties play the position. They tend to prefer to roll out to the left, for example, and throws to the right side of the field are more difficult for them. Cohn, who wrote a lengthy piece on the scarcity of lefty QBs, found a few examples of coaches who didn’t want to restructure their playbooks to cater to southpaws...
...And then there’s the matter of spin. When a receiver gets the ball from a right-handed quarterback, he’s catching a spiral that rotates counterclockwise; for lefties, it’s clockwise. This may not seem like a big deal, but wide receivers tend to be a fussy bunch. “Regardless of where I run on the field, unless I run an out to the right, the ball is always going to be spinning away from me,” Hall of Fame wideout Cris Carter told NFL Films. It’s a legitimate adjustment,
--------------
It is a legit thing to consider when one QB is a rookie lefty competing against three righties BEFORE factoring in that he's the only sub 6' QB in the league and all of the issues that brings.
Young QBs with promise aren't always that easy to just put onto the practice squad. Teams rarely put 3rd rounders there, and if Sanders shows any real promise in camp he won't be able to be safely moved there either
Honestly, I think they keep 3 on the roster. Trade Dillon or PS. Watson to IR.
Why would they trade the QB they drafted before and prefer over Sanders? Unless the owner makes them do it, which is always a possibility, that isn't happening.
Evaluations of the QBs will change after several practices and preseason.

Yes.
 
The Pickett addition definitely looked questionable in hindsight. And then I saw a few clips of the Browns war room when they made the Sanders pick. I don't think anyone could convince me that wasn't the result of a phone call from Haslam saying something along the lines of "I sign your paychecks, you make this pick right now". They looked like they were in a hostage situation, and jokes aside, I'd be money they pretty much were.

So unless they can convince Haslam to move off it, and would likely need to get better than original compensation in a trade to move off Sanders, I'd agree. Either Flacco or Pickett are getting moved.

Probably getting ahead of myself, but my biggest struggle right now if I were on that staff would be who they play in preseason. If they put Sanders out there for a stretch... IMO all he needs to do is put up one preseason Tommy Devito looking sweet TD bomb and they are going to be wading through the ish all season long. PS and not dressed on gamedays won't be enough to stave off people posting a clip of Sanders beating up on third stringers in a preseason game every single week if/when Flacco/Pickett/Gabriel are struggling. If it was me, I'd just lean into the circus at that point and throw Sanders out there. Either he does well and you look smart, or he bombs and people will read between the lines and see your hands were tied by an overly involved owner. Wouldn't be the first time, as Haslam was the impetus behind the Johnny Manzel experiment as well.

I know NFL coaching gigs are hard to get and sometimes you have little to no choice, but I don't know how they even attract candidates at this point.

War room during the pick for those who didn't see it - that bearded dude in the back is clapping how I do when work calls a townhall meeting and wants me to get excited about how the upcoming layoffs are going to be good for our company.
My guess is they talked Haslam into Dillon in the third and by the time the fifth rolled around, he had been stewing on that decision and made the mandate.

They got Sanders but ultimately, they probably wasted a 3rd round pick* and free agent signing. They lost opportunities to improve their team for 2025 from that wasted draft capital and money, while adding a ton more drama, even if it is likely for a better player. It's going to be a lot more difficult for them to win enough to keep their jobs after 2025.

If I was the HC & GM I would be upset too. But, a lot of it is their own fault.

*I don't think there is one thing, on the field, Gabriel does better than Shedeur so it's a wasted 3rd, not 5th.
 
The Pickett addition definitely looked questionable in hindsight. And then I saw a few clips of the Browns war room when they made the Sanders pick. I don't think anyone could convince me that wasn't the result of a phone call from Haslam saying something along the lines of "I sign your paychecks, you make this pick right now". They looked like they were in a hostage situation, and jokes aside, I'd be money they pretty much were.

So unless they can convince Haslam to move off it, and would likely need to get better than original compensation in a trade to move off Sanders, I'd agree. Either Flacco or Pickett are getting moved.

Probably getting ahead of myself, but my biggest struggle right now if I were on that staff would be who they play in preseason. If they put Sanders out there for a stretch... IMO all he needs to do is put up one preseason Tommy Devito looking sweet TD bomb and they are going to be wading through the ish all season long. PS and not dressed on gamedays won't be enough to stave off people posting a clip of Sanders beating up on third stringers in a preseason game every single week if/when Flacco/Pickett/Gabriel are struggling. If it was me, I'd just lean into the circus at that point and throw Sanders out there. Either he does well and you look smart, or he bombs and people will read between the lines and see your hands were tied by an overly involved owner. Wouldn't be the first time, as Haslam was the impetus behind the Johnny Manzel experiment as well.

I know NFL coaching gigs are hard to get and sometimes you have little to no choice, but I don't know how they even attract candidates at this point.

War room during the pick for those who didn't see it - that bearded dude in the back is clapping how I do when work calls a townhall meeting and wants me to get excited about how the upcoming layoffs are going to be good for our company.
My guess is they talked Haslam into Dillon in the third and by the time the fifth rolled around, he had been stewing on that decision and made the mandate.

They got Sanders but ultimately, they probably wasted a 3rd round pick* and free agent signing. They lost opportunities to improve their team for 2025 from that wasted draft capital and money, while adding a ton more drama, even if it is likely for a better player. It's going to be a lot more difficult for them to win enough to keep their jobs after 2025.

If I was the HC & GM I would be upset too. But, a lot of it is their own fault.

*I don't think there is one thing, on the field, Gabriel does better than Shedeur so it's a wasted 3rd, not 5th.
Agree, poor communication at the very least. If they knew Haslem wanted Sanders, they never should have taken Dillon. Or at least phoned him before taking Dillon to ensure they were all on the same page that would make their QB room set at that point. And while it still would have been a dumb/wasted pick, if they had taken any other QB with that 5th, it at least wouldn't have brought the accompanying circus along.

I believe I saw you, or at least someone post, the same exact sentiment I had after Sheduer slipped past day 2: at that point the only teams where it would have made sense to take him as a value pick would have been a KC, Philly, Bengals, Bills, etc. A team with a firmly entrenched and beloved starter that no one in their right mind would be clamoring for Sheduer to play over. Then he could sit, learn, and likely spend a couple years accruing value for both himself and a second contract and the team that took him in trade capital. And from a strictly talent perspective and assuming he became a model/coachable/humble team member, they also would have had a high quality backup for those 2-3 years in case of a Mahomes/Hurts/Burrow/Allen injury.

IMO, in a perfect world Haslem would let the people he hired do their jobs and not meddle, but he's not the first overly involved owner, and assuredly won't be the last. I can't imagine Haslem exerting pressure on team decisions, even in the middle of a draft, would be a surprise to Stefanski or Berry, as it's been highly publicized for at least the past 6-7 years. They should have gotten in front of it.

It's really a shame because if you replace either the Dillon or Sanders pick with a relative BPA alternative; I'd say they had one of the best drafts this year.
 
You snipped the rest of my post which gave caveats given the passed time, but ok.
Wasn't trying to snip. It is not the same situation. It's not even the same situation the last time the Browns signed him off the scrap heap. Time passes quickly and Joe knows this is his last rodeo.
Per the Browns QB situation.
Browns FO is known for trading backup QBs who flash for future draft picks.
They also can place one on the practice squad and Watson will inevitably be placed on IR or the PUP.

The interesting tidbit that no one has mentioned yet is that Dillion Gabriel is a lefty and that means the ball is rotating off his hand in the opposite direction of the other three QBs and in past NFL training camps that 'tends' to cause a higher percentage of drops when it hits the receiver's handsWhy Left-Handed Quarterbacks Are So Rare
...This paucity of left-handed quarterbacks is truly bizarre. Lefties make up around 10 percent of the population, but, according to ESPN’s stats department, there have been just 33 lefty QBs in the NFL since 1950...
... how lefties play the position. They tend to prefer to roll out to the left, for example, and throws to the right side of the field are more difficult for them. Cohn, who wrote a lengthy piece on the scarcity of lefty QBs, found a few examples of coaches who didn’t want to restructure their playbooks to cater to southpaws...
...And then there’s the matter of spin. When a receiver gets the ball from a right-handed quarterback, he’s catching a spiral that rotates counterclockwise; for lefties, it’s clockwise. This may not seem like a big deal, but wide receivers tend to be a fussy bunch. “Regardless of where I run on the field, unless I run an out to the right, the ball is always going to be spinning away from me,” Hall of Fame wideout Cris Carter told NFL Films. It’s a legitimate adjustment,
--------------
It is a legit thing to consider when one QB is a rookie lefty competing against three righties BEFORE factoring in that he's the only sub 6' QB in the league and all of the issues that brings.
Young QBs with promise aren't always that easy to just put onto the practice squad. Teams rarely put 3rd rounders there, and if Sanders shows any real promise in camp he won't be able to be safely moved there either
Honestly, I think they keep 3 on the roster. Trade Dillon or PS. Watson to IR.
Gonna be tough getting Dillon to the PS.

IMO barring an outright meltdown by either rookie Flacco and Pickett are on thinner ice.
Pickett I can see. But a QB room of two rookie QBs and Pickett seems very bad.
 
I'm rooting for Sanders, but holy cow...that landing spot. The Browns did some good things in the draft, but the Dillon pick in the 3rd was lame. Props to Haslem for making Berry and Stefanski pull the trigger. What a mess.

I can see Shedeur falling some because of the character concerns, but the 5th round is a joke. The Sanders family is all about ball, albeit, with some drama. This kid is going to work hard. The implications of him falling that far in a league where you can't win without a QB are bizarre. It's cra-cra it took an owner (and a persecuted one, at that) to stop the slide.

Dallas didn't have a 4th, but my guess is they would've drafted Shedeur with one of their two picks in the 5th if Cleveland hadn't taken him and I would've been more than fine with it.
 
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I'm glad the NFL came down hard on Atlanta for the prank call to Sanders by DC Jeff Ulbrich's son. Fined the Falcons a quarter mil and Ulbrich 100K. Ouch.

Too bad they won't be able to do anything to the turd who pranked Isaiah Bond.
 
I believe I saw you, or at least someone post, the same exact sentiment I had after Sheduer slipped past day 2: at that point the only teams where it would have made sense to take him as a value pick would have been a KC, Philly, Bengals, Bills, etc. A team with a firmly entrenched and beloved starter that no one in their right mind would be clamoring for Sheduer to play over. Then he could sit, learn, and likely spend a couple years accruing value for both himself and a second contract and the team that took him in trade capital. And from a strictly talent perspective and assuming he became a model/coachable/humble team member, they also would have had a high quality backup for those 2-3 years in case of a Mahomes/Hurts/Burrow/Allen injury.
Yeah, I did say that on Saturday.

At that point I almost assumed it would be a team like Baltimore or KC that would take him for the trade value upside alone. Those teams are good enough to take a flier in the fourth or fifth round. A strong preseason alone would vault him up at least around or two in compensation. And no reporter would ask Reid or Harbaugh questions about when Shedeur will start.

I'm sure Shedeur starting will come up in Cleveland's first post draft presser and, even if he is a consummate professional and doesn't say a word (like Tebow tried to do) it won't go away until he's either starting or off the team.
 
At that point I almost assumed it would be a team like Baltimore or KC that would take him for the trade value upside alone.
I posted it in a joking manner in the draft thread as things were unfolding, but I seriously thought Baltimore might take him at some point in the later rounds. The Ravens (or KC, Philly, etc...) would have been a better landing spot for him.
 
I believe I saw you, or at least someone post, the same exact sentiment I had after Sheduer slipped past day 2: at that point the only teams where it would have made sense to take him as a value pick would have been a KC, Philly, Bengals, Bills, etc. A team with a firmly entrenched and beloved starter that no one in their right mind would be clamoring for Sheduer to play over. Then he could sit, learn, and likely spend a couple years accruing value for both himself and a second contract and the team that took him in trade capital. And from a strictly talent perspective and assuming he became a model/coachable/humble team member, they also would have had a high quality backup for those 2-3 years in case of a Mahomes/Hurts/Burrow/Allen injury.
Yeah, I did say that on Saturday.

At that point I almost assumed it would be a team like Baltimore or KC that would take him for the trade value upside alone. Those teams are good enough to take a flier in the fourth or fifth round. A strong preseason alone would vault him up at least around or two in compensation. And no reporter would ask Reid or Harbaugh questions about when Shedeur will start.

I'm sure Shedeur starting will come up in Cleveland's first post draft presser and, even if he is a consummate professional and doesn't say a word (like Tebow tried to do) it won't go away until he's either starting or off the team.
Funny you say this. I was reading an opinion that stuck with me, and saw it validated in several ways across a lot of the post draft analysis. It basically said "Getting a job as a backup QB might be harder than getting a job as a starter." Right from the jump, you can easily point out the fact most teams without an established starter are just not good. Tends to be some turmoil, not just with the fans, but the organization itself. They are looking for a savior, and many of them are looking for (I'd have to add "to an extent, and within reason" as a qualifier here after seeing what we did with Sanders fall) a lot of the qualities Sander's was trying to put out there. Supreme confidence, desire to be a trend setter and a culture changer, a face for the media/public. Meanwhile, most teams looking for a backup want the exact opposite. One article made a great analogy about basically being a piece of furniture in the room. Don't let us even know you're here, except to know you are ALWAYS here grinding and perfecting your craft. Maybe, once your rapport is up, be the "I'll do that for you coach" guy. So suddenly, the way a guy like Sanders was painting himself to be a positive for organizations, became practically a negative as soon as it was realized he was going to coming in as a backup. Or at the best competing for a starting job, not handed one.

Which, like you ponted out, brings it back to guys like Tebow, Cam Newton, Jay Cutler, Kaep (though this one obviously has levels to it), and now Shedeur. All very different guys; but none of them were really capable of just being a piece of furniture in the room. Whether they were trying to, or even when they weren't, they brought so much more attention and noise to the organization it made teams ask if the juice was worth the squeeze. And why while most of them could have been some of the best backups in league, capable of filling in for more than just a week or two like most backups, with the potential to Nick Foles a starting QB injury to keep championship aspirations alive; it's easier to opt for Jake Browning, Sam Howell, and Jacoby Brissett types. Give up some potential ceiling play (that you honestly hope you'll never have to use), for the quiet consistency of a glue guy most people forget is even in the room.
 
Brett Kollmann
After some thought, I think part of the issue for the Shedeur Sanders camp is that they didn’t hire an agent. An agent’s job is to give the client an accurate range of where they are projected to go so they know how to navigate the process.

Shedeur approached the process like a lock for the top 5 because that’s what the Sanders family honestly thought he was going to be. And unfortunately, they didn’t have anyone in their circle willing to tell them otherwise.

If he went into it knowing teams had day two grades on him, who knows…he may have done things differently. That’s why agents are important.
agreed. it is also an agents job to prep the player for the interviews as well.

when I saw the scouting reports and viewed the tape, I figured he likely should be a 2nd round pick. but a fair number who I view like this do end up going in round 1 if they nail the intereviews and they show the intangibles are there.

but it sounds like he didnt have anyone prepping him and he approached it like a college interview where you are picking your school... and likely this did come off as making him look arrogant and entitled.

an agent does more than just sign a contract for you. he preps you so you can be the best version of yourself when they are doing the evaluating. especially the off field evaluations where they try to get to know the prospect, see what he is about and see whether the player would be a good 'fit' for the team.

an agent likely would have also did what he could to keep dad out of the picture (though admittedly that may be tough) but a team wants to see a player be his own man.

I've done interviews with prospective employees out of college and some kids are dumb enough to bring their parents to the interview. when I see that I typically have no interest in hiring them. if they are not able to handle their own affairs, I dont want any part of that situation. This isnt quite the same thing, but I'd certainly have concerns about having a helicopter parent sticking their nose in where it doesnt belong. only people who have a right to do that are coaches, Team staff and players (to varying degrees) anyone else sticking their nose in simply do not belong.
 
I think part of the cockiness/arrogance/confidence comes from the fact that the NIL is finally making an impact on player interviews. Shedeur Sanders walked into those interviews as a self-made millionaire. Not daddy's money (though the name made a big difference, obviously) but his NIL money is his own. So confident millionaire coaches and GMs are now sitting across from confident millionaire players. Shedeur Sanders can make a million dollars a year as an influencer and never play football again, and he knows it. His endorsement money will dwarf his first NFL contract, and he knows it. He isn't a poor kid trying desperately to impress a team so he can buy his mother a house. He doesn't need the NFL the way many players do, and teams don't like a shift in the power structure of a typical interview.

Teams can walk away from him and move on, but he can do the same. He isn't some journeyman kicker, who boards a plane any time someone hurts their hamstring. Financially, he doesn't need the NFL the way most players do. He's not (just) a rich kid living off family money. He's made more of his own money than most adults reading this post. "Humble" isn't really part of the brand, and his brand is part of his compensation, with or without football.

Not sure yet how good or bad it all is, but it is part of the fallout of NIL money and I expect to see more of it in the coming years.
 
I think part of the cockiness/arrogance/confidence comes from the fact that the NIL is finally making an impact on player interviews. Shedeur Sanders walked into those interviews as a self-made millionaire. Not daddy's money (though the name made a big difference, obviously) but his NIL money is his own. So confident millionaire coaches and GMs are now sitting across from confident millionaire players. Shedeur Sanders can make a million dollars a year as an influencer and never play football again, and he knows it. His endorsement money will dwarf his first NFL contract, and he knows it. He isn't a poor kid trying desperately to impress a team so he can buy his mother a house. He doesn't need the NFL the way many players do, and teams don't like a shift in the power structure of a typical interview.

Teams can walk away from him and move on, but he can do the same. He isn't some journeyman kicker, who boards a plane any time someone hurts their hamstring. Financially, he doesn't need the NFL the way most players do. He's not (just) a rich kid living off family money. He's made more of his own money than most adults reading this post. "Humble" isn't really part of the brand, and his brand is part of his compensation, with or without football.

Not sure yet how good or bad it all is, but it is part of the fallout of NIL money and I expect to see more of it in the coming years.
That may be a factor to some degree, but I didn’t hear of any other players that came off that way in interviews. I am sure there were some who were less prepared/professional, but I would guess nothing to Shadeur’s degree. The one good thing that did come of it is he set example for future football players on how not to approach the draft.
 
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Shedeur Sanders can make a million dollars a year as an influencer and never play football again

I'm curious on this. With the loss of continued football fame, I have to wonder just how much of a lifespan he would have left in social media. There are people who succeed in that field because they are talented in producing content, but a lot it is because they are appealing whether in physical appearance, or being a high profile athlete or other claim to fame.

If you take away the high profile athlete part, would his followers really hold up? Does he generate interest, outside of his football fame, that he'd have reached that level in social media without ever having touched a football? If not I don't imagine it would hold up long.
 
Shedeur Sanders can make a million dollars a year as an influencer and never play football again

I'm curious on this. With the loss of continued football fame, I have to wonder just how much of a lifespan he would have left in social media. There are people who succeed in that field because they are talented in producing content, but a lot it is because they are appealing whether in physical appearance, or being a high profile athlete or other claim to fame.

If you take away the high profile athlete part, would his followers really hold up? Does he generate interest, outside of his football fame, that he'd have reached that level in social media without ever having touched a football? If not I don't imagine it would hold up long.
I agree, without performance that window has already peaked.
 
Shedeur Sanders can make a million dollars a year as an influencer and never play football again

I'm curious on this. With the loss of continued football fame, I have to wonder just how much of a lifespan he would have left in social media. There are people who succeed in that field because they are talented in producing content, but a lot it is because they are appealing whether in physical appearance, or being a high profile athlete or other claim to fame.

If you take away the high profile athlete part, would his followers really hold up? Does he generate interest, outside of his football fame, that he'd have reached that level in social media without ever having touched a football? If not I don't imagine it would hold up long.
He has about two million Instagram followers and around a million on other platforms. If he doesn't play football he'll still be a stylish young person with a famous name and a brand. Many influencers have succeeded with less.
 

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