Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Sorry I wasn't trying to downplay his weight. My mistake from memory.I mean 180 pound is a little untrue. He's 188,
Sorry I wasn't trying to downplay his weight. My mistake from memory.I mean 180 pound is a little untrue. He's 188,
Carson went down. Penny went down. Then Walker eventually went down. I think there were some factors involved and would say the second round RB (for the second draft in a row) suggests things as well.They were 22nd in the NFL in rushing attempts last season, and 27th in 2021. Adding a 1st round WR would seem to suggest they aren't going back to their run heavy ways.
I keep hearing this but who exactly are you foregoing if you take Charbonet. I mean he still has to be RB3 in this class, no? Late first for a young RBBC back seems fine to me in this class.He's probably gonna be over drafted considering this is a time share for a few years.
I keep hearing this but who exactly are you foregoing if you take Charbonet. I mean he still has to be RB3 in this class, no? Late first for a young RBBC back seems fine to me in this class.He's probably gonna be over drafted considering this is a time share for a few years.
For me in a 1qb ppr league where I'm deep at WR but thin at RB and have Lamar as my only QB, it comes down to Charbonnet vs Anthony Richardson. I will probably change my mind 100 times between now and our draft.
except noone's expecting Walker to be cut. also their skill sets appear to be more similar than Dillon and Jones.Why does this feel eerily similar to AJ Dillon in 2020. Drafted in 2nd round. Everyone expected him to take over from Jones. Many expected Jones to be cut Because of salary. Entering year 4/ and Jones still there and Dillon only nice RB with injury.
I own pick 15 and 17 in my home league where TE premium, PPR and will fade Charbonnet there. I own Dillon and hardly started. Looking at TE and know they take time but feel Walker better than Jones overall. I also take a Mingo instead because longevity of RB. What is Dillons value today as he enters contract year. Mid 2nd at best in leagues. Those taking early will regret Unless you own Walker.
I have Walker and picks 3-4-6-20.
I'm not even sure I'd be tempted to use pick 20 on him right now. As I essentially have to take JSN to get value for these picks that's just too much Seahawk on my team.
Why does this feel eerily similar to AJ Dillon in 2020. Drafted in 2nd round. Everyone expected him to take over from Jones. Many expected Jones to be cut Because of salary. Entering year 4/ and Jones still there and Dillon only nice RB with injury.
I own pick 15 and 17 in my home league where TE premium, PPR and will fade Charbonnet there. I own Dillon and hardly started. Looking at TE and know they take time but feel Walker better than Jones overall. I also take a Mingo instead because longevity of RB. What is Dillons value today as he enters contract year. Mid 2nd at best in leagues. Those taking early will regret Unless you own Walker.
Seattle has faced extended periods of time where they wished they had one more RB than they had. It wasn't too long ago Riverdance was starting games for them and that experience might have affected their recent draft strategies.Carson went down. Penny went down. Then Walker eventually went down. I think there were some factors involved and would say the second round RB (for the second draft in a row) suggests things as well.They were 22nd in the NFL in rushing attempts last season, and 27th in 2021. Adding a 1st round WR would seem to suggest they aren't going back to their run heavy ways.
I honestly can't say how either player will be used in 2023, especially this early. If I end up being wrong on this one, I won't be too upset with my process at least.
It wasn't too long ago Riverdance was starting games for them and that experience might have affected their recent draft strategies.
It wasn't too long ago Riverdance was starting games for them and that experience might have affected their recent draft strategies.
Riverdance (I assume you mean Alex Collins) ran well for them when called upon, even at his advanced age. But your point is exactly what I thought of. if you're going to be a running team, and your average starting running back will average about 3 missed games a year, what are you trotting out there for those three games? I don't agree with it, and I don't agree with Sneaky Pete often, but I can see where he's coming from at least.
The days of the bellcow are pretty much gone...and those owners chasing it are playing old school fantasy football.
You could actually just stay in Seattle under the regime of Carroll/Schneider and find several examples were the RB drafted high was not able to carve out a big role or present a threat to the incumbent.Why does this feel eerily similar to AJ Dillon in 2020. Drafted in 2nd round. Everyone expected him to take over from Jone
Yep. Seattle has always drafted backup RBs high.You could actually just stay in Seattle under the regime of Carroll/Schneider and find several examples were the RB drafted high was not able to carve out a big role or present a threat to the incumbent.Why does this feel eerily similar to AJ Dillon in 2020. Drafted in 2nd round. Everyone expected him to take over from Jone
Christine Michel was the first one.
Penny was the next one. Was not able to beat out Carson.
Walker was the clear second banana to Penny, though that was only a 4 game sample size.
I see it the other way. I see charbonet getting the bulk of the Carrie’s as the season wears on and relegates Walker to the change of pace back breaker at the end of the game when defenses start to get winded. I think Charbs represents more the mauling Marshawn type of back Pete loves and wants to get in the game more than the kind of rb Walker is.Yep. Seattle has always drafted backup RBs high.You could actually just stay in Seattle under the regime of Carroll/Schneider and find several examples were the RB drafted high was not able to carve out a big role or present a threat to the incumbent.Why does this feel eerily similar to AJ Dillon in 2020. Drafted in 2nd round. Everyone expected him to take over from Jone
Christine Michel was the first one.
Penny was the next one. Was not able to beat out Carson.
Walker was the clear second banana to Penny, though that was only a 4 game sample size.
My two cents is that this is still Walker's backfield with Charbonnet, a good downhill runner without anything near Walker's explosiveness, getting like 30% of the carries to spell Walker.
That was a fleeting thought I had as well but in need of RB1, 1.07 is a costly gamble for RBBC risk. I had Charbs RB3 early in process and have to look at more KW3 film to see if he can carve majority share carries… even but EOSI see it the other way. I see charbonet getting the bulk of the Carrie’s as the season wears on and relegates Walker to the change of pace back breaker at the end of the game when defenses start to get winded. I think Charbs represents more the mauling Marshawn type of back Pete loves and wants to get in the game more than the kind of rb Walker is.Yep. Seattle has always drafted backup RBs high.You could actually just stay in Seattle under the regime of Carroll/Schneider and find several examples were the RB drafted high was not able to carve out a big role or present a threat to the incumbent.Why does this feel eerily similar to AJ Dillon in 2020. Drafted in 2nd round. Everyone expected him to take over from Jone
Christine Michel was the first one.
Penny was the next one. Was not able to beat out Carson.
Walker was the clear second banana to Penny, though that was only a 4 game sample size.
My two cents is that this is still Walker's backfield with Charbonnet, a good downhill runner without anything near Walker's explosiveness, getting like 30% of the carries to spell Walker.
I’m not a Seattle fan so I’m no expert on them but just on the outside looking in that’s how I see it. I don’t think I’d draft Charb top 6 like he was probably going to go if he was drafted somewhere else but back of the first round for fantasy someone could get a nice deal unless camp shows us something on how they want to use these two young rbs
Is that Carroll’s plan?merge them together you get a Shaun Alexander.
So you're just a Charbonnet guy. I think you underestimate Walker. Walker may be a top 5 RB in the league right now. So Zach would have to be better than a top 5 RB.I’ll take the over.Mike Clay@MikeClayNFL
2023 Seahawks RB Zach Charbonnet projection: 113 carries, 476 yards, 3 TDs; 27 targets, 21 receptions, 156 yards, 1 TD (14 games)
- Yeah, these numbers are ugly...and they'll likely have to be even lower for Ken Walker III to produce a RB1 fantasy campaign.![]()
Confession time. Zach Charbonnet was my favorite running back prospect of the class. Maybe not the best—that would be Bijan Robinson. But I thought Charbonnet was a better all-around prospect than Jahmyr Gibbs, and he has the skill set to be an every-down back and fantasy force. Had he landed with the Cincinnati Bengals or Philadelphia Eagles, Charbonnet would be the No. 2 rookie running back, someone who would have been relevant for fantasy managers from the get-go.
Instead, from a fantasy perspective, disaster struck. The Seattle Seahawks selected Charbonnet in the second round—you know, the same team that drafted Ken Walker III in the second round last year.
Head coach Pete Carroll talked up Charbonnet in a Monday radio appearance—but acknowledged the carry split between the two is an unknown.
"He's so versatile," Carroll said on Bump and Stacy. "He just will fit in and be a great addition. And really we're going to find out how far he can take it in terms of the receiving part of it. We know he's really good at it, but so is Kenneth, and so those guys will be battling."
Mind you, it's not like Walker was bad as a rookie—he topped 1,000 rushing yards and averaged 4.6 yards per carry. Even if Charbonnet wins the lead role, this has the makings of a committee.
And that's bad news for Charbonnet and Walker.
Grade: D
You've said this twice now and neither time was it true. Even if Walker was a Top 5 back, that would not mean Charbonet has to be better to cut into Walker's snaps.So Zach would have to be better than a top 5 RB.
Out the gate, your projection/assertion is off - I’m certainly not “a Charbonnet guy”, I’m a FF guy. I have no shares of Charbonnet, nor any possibility of drafting him anywhere except redraft. Nor do I roster Walker anywhere, thank goodness.So you're just a Charbonnet guy. I think you underestimate Walker. Walker may be a top 5 RB in the league right now. So Zach would have to be better than a top 5 RB.I’ll take the over.Mike Clay@MikeClayNFL
2023 Seahawks RB Zach Charbonnet projection: 113 carries, 476 yards, 3 TDs; 27 targets, 21 receptions, 156 yards, 1 TD (14 games)
- Yeah, these numbers are ugly...and they'll likely have to be even lower for Ken Walker III to produce a RB1 fantasy campaign.![]()
Maybe he is.
It’s very likely to be a RBBC in Seattle, and I believe it’s a reasonable assumption that ZC is more likely to get those high value touches (receptions/short yardage) than Walker.But in between the explosive plays are the moments when Walker doesn’t take what’s there or dances his way into trouble for a loss or a run of no gain. Walker averages 4.54 yards per carry, which ranks 21st among running backs with at least 50 carries. But using that same carry minimum, Walker ranks 51st out of 52 running backs in success rate and has the second-highest rate of carries for either no gain or negative yardage. According to Next Gen Stats, Walker has the second-lowest rate of runs that exceed expectation.
Exactly. RBBC just eviscerates both their values. And I’m confident Carroll will use them both, a lot.You've repeated this twice now and neither time was it true. Even if Walker was a Top 5 back, that would not mean Charbonet has to be better to cut into Walker's snaps. You do realize the team just drafted Charbonet in Round 2, same round they drafted Walker?So Zach would have to be better than a top 5 RB.
You’re certainly entitled to that belief.I am starting to think Walker will be a great value this year.
This right here. He was explosive but damn he had so many runs where he went nowhere. At least fall forward for a couple. It puts the offense behind the sticks too often.The fact is that Walker struggled in short yardage situations last year, and was woefully inconsistent
This is where I'm at.Personally, I’m avoiding the entire situation and it has zero to do with my personal affinity for one player over the other, as I roster neither.
I sure do if the store is offering close out pricesThis is where I'm at.Personally, I’m avoiding the entire situation and it has zero to do with my personal affinity for one player over the other, as I roster neither.
I wasn't in the position to take Walker, so now that another back is there, I see no reason to invest in that backfield now.
I mean sure, there’s a price for every player if it gets cheap enough.I sure do if the store is offering close out prices
Kenneth Walker is currently being drafted in round 13.3, with an ADP of 178
Zach Charbonnet is currently being drafted in round 18.8, with an ADP of 145.4
7th round you don't take walker? LolI mean sure, there’s a price for every player if it gets cheap enough.I sure do if the store is offering close out prices
If I’m in the 8-9 round of redraft after loading up on WR/TE/QB and cobbling together a zero RB backfield, Walker would definitely be a consideration.
But then, so would Charbonnet.
Who would you pick 1st of the two, is the more interesting question I think.
24 RB-9 Ken Walker SEA - - 37 18 25 - - 3.04 2.12
103 RB-35 Zach Charbonnet SEA - - 135 80 109 - - 11.03 9.07
It was a hypothetical. I pulled a round # out of my butt.7th round you don't take walker? LolI mean sure, there’s a price for every player if it gets cheap enough.I sure do if the store is offering close out prices
If I’m in the 8-9 round of redraft after loading up on WR/TE/QB and cobbling together a zero RB backfield, Walker would definitely be a consideration.
But then, so would Charbonnet.
Who would you pick 1st of the two, is the more interesting question I think.
I could certainly be wrong but I don’t think this is hard. Walker is the better back imo.It was a hypothetical. I pulled a round # out of my butt.7th round you don't take walker? LolI mean sure, there’s a price for every player if it gets cheap enough.I sure do if the store is offering close out prices
If I’m in the 8-9 round of redraft after loading up on WR/TE/QB and cobbling together a zero RB backfield, Walker would definitely be a consideration.
But then, so would Charbonnet.
Who would you pick 1st of the two, is the more interesting question I think.
I have no idea what their ADP will be.
Who do you take first in redraft, Waker or Charbonet?
If that’s the case it’s probably rookie drafts being includedKENNETH WALKER AVERAGE DRAFT POSITION
Excerpt:
Kenneth Walker is currently being drafted in round 13.3, with an ADP of 178
ZACH CHARBONNET AVERAGE DRAFT POSITION
Excerpt:
Zach Charbonnet is currently being drafted in round 18.8, with an ADP of 145.4
I think the automated text for the round taken is incorrect. Right now based on the ADP data, it appears that Charbonnet is being selected ahead of Kenneth Walker.
We can agree to disagree on that.I could certainly be wrong but I don’t think this is hard. Walker is the better back imo.
No way in hell would I draft Walker in the early 3rd after the Seahawks took a RB in the 2nd round.Looking at limited FFPC startups in their standard leagues that have started after the NFL draft we got Walker with an ADP of 3.1, based on 11 drafts he's been selected and Charbonnet as 6.6 in the 8 drafts he's been selected.
11 and 8 is not a ton of data but both of those sound about right to me and what I'd expect.
Walked easilyIt was a hypothetical. I pulled a round # out of my butt.7th round you don't take walker? LolI mean sure, there’s a price for every player if it gets cheap enough.I sure do if the store is offering close out prices
If I’m in the 8-9 round of redraft after loading up on WR/TE/QB and cobbling together a zero RB backfield, Walker would definitely be a consideration.
But then, so would Charbonnet.
Who would you pick 1st of the two, is the more interesting question I think.
I have no idea what their ADP will be.
Who do you take first in redraft, Waker or Charbonet?
I did not refresh the page and I was looking at Walker went even higher now that he's been drafted 16 times. ADP of 2.10, lowest he's gone is 4.3No way in hell would I draft Walker in the early 3rd after the Seahawks took a RB in the 2nd round.Looking at limited FFPC startups in their standard leagues that have started after the NFL draft we got Walker with an ADP of 3.1, based on 11 drafts he's been selected and Charbonnet as 6.6 in the 8 drafts he's been selected.
11 and 8 is not a ton of data but both of those sound about right to me and what I'd expect.
I think their respective values are going to end up a lot closer than people expect at present timeWalked easily
Ok.I think their respective values are going to end up a lot closer than people expect at present timeWalked easily