BlackCrowes
Footballguy
is this where we get claims Star Wars is a western set in space and not sci-fi?
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The 101 Best Science Fiction/Fantasy Movies of All Time: 1. Interstellar (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Scoresman
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Scoresman
Footballguy
This argument makes no sense. If it's in space, that's pretty much the definition of scifi. But it actually has equally as many elements of fantasy.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I know people will argue almost anything - but it would be a real stretch to say Star Wars is not Sci-Fi. Movies can have some overlap in genres.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
George Lucas plagiarized...err "paid homage to" ...a lot of genres.
Scoresman
Footballguy
2 reasons.
1. According to the rules I set, I either rank entire franchises or as individual movies, not picking and choosing what movies within a franchise I lump together. So if I were to lump all of Star Wars together, it would have to include everything.
2. Because of the rankings for all three. I previously said for LOTR I would have ranked them all pretty much together, so it made sense to just group them. Same with HP. With Star Wars, the movies range from all time classics to hot garbage, so I wouldn't even know how to average all that out and have it make sense.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
In addition, the LOTR movies were all filmed together and just chopped up into three movies. It makes sense to treat them as a single, very long film. Kind of like Kill Bill. (Edit: To Chaz's point immediately below, I would not include The Hobbit here.)
Star Wars is obviously not like that.
I can see why people might want to split up the LOTR films, but grouping the SW movies into a single franchise would be a real problem IMO.
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Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
Were The Hobbit movies included in the LOTR ranking?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It was identified as the “Trilogy”.
Scoresman
Footballguy
No. And you bring up a decent point here, but I'm quietly ignoring the Hobbit movies. I think a lot of people do.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I'm just busting your chops. I don't consider The Hobbit to be part of the LOTR franchise either.
TheAristocrat
Footballguy
Does anyone else follow these countdowns and hope American Cheese gets placed at #1 or is that just me?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The Hobbit movies had some problems, chief of which is that they were not any where near as good as LOTR, but the extended editions of the Hobbit, IMO, are significantly better than a movie like The Beastmaster.
Scoresman
Footballguy
2. 2001: A Space Odyssey
1968 - 2h 29 - GDirector: Stanley Kubrick
Metascore: 84
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When a mysterious artifact is uncovered on the Moon, a spacecraft manned by two humans and one supercomputer is sent to Jupiter to find its origins.
While groundbreaking in its visuals and ambitious narrative, this movie is timeless because it is just so damn compelling. Quite literally the "story of everything". It is extremely thought provoking and will make you ask a million questions. Roger Ebert said "This movie is not concerned with thrilling us, but with inspiring our awe." Exactly what you want from a good hard scifi film. I struggled ranking this one and my number one, swapping them a few times over the course of this.
Trivia: At the premiere screening, 241 people walked out of the theater, including Rock Hudson, who said, "Will someone tell me what the hell this is about?" Sir Arthur C. Clarke once said, "If you understand '2001' completely, we failed. We wanted to raise far more questions than we answered." Clarke later expressed some concern that the film was too hard to follow, and explained things more fully in the novelization and subsequent sequels.
Scoresman
Footballguy
6 year old me would disagree.
Scoresman
Footballguy
My number one will be a bit polarizing I think, but then again I thought my placement of Arrival would be too. So who knows.
It's not as chalk as Alien in the horror countdown was though.
The scifi equivalent of American Cheese is probably Battlefield Earth or something similar.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I didn't want to start a firestorm, but the 3 LOTR movies are part of the same universe as the 3 Hobbit movies . . . only they featured different characters in a different timeline. The 70s/80s Star Wars movies were part of the same universe as the later SW movies . . . only they featured different characters in different timelines. Put another way, when the new LOTR movies start coming out in 2026, would this listing then need to be updated to factor those in as different entries?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Is this really something you’re worried about?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
2001 is an incredible technical achievement. As a movie and story, it's just so so.
Only if you're trying to suck the fun out of this exercise.
Scoresman
Footballguy
I dont disagree with what you're saying. I'm just choosing not to be that strict. I felt like the original LOTR trilogy also felt like one movie and I didnt see the value in pushing additional movies off the list. But if you'd rather see them listed individually, then make them 13, 12, and 11, and push Snowpiercer, Weird Science, and The Day the Earth Stood Still off the list.
Also, I already need to update my list with a movie @Andy Dufresne recommended to me over PM. Vast of Night! Watch it. It's seriously great.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Star Wars is far more fantasy than Sci Fi. There is almost zero science in Star Wars. Star Wars has core fantasy elements like wizards (Jedi), swords (light sabers) magic (the force), and quests.
Firefly is far more western than Sci Fi. Whedon added almost zero science in this show.
Scoresman
Footballguy
And in about 2 hours when this is done, I'm sure you're all going to remind of movies I forgot that I will need to add.
Scoresman
Footballguy
Story, maybe, but the technical side counts for a lot in this case, also the way the movie lasts with you making you ask so many questions.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I like this thought process.
I am going to list a few movies when you are complete that I may have considered for a top 100. One of them is partly on my list because of its impact on future films, which I also think is an important attribute.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Does there have to be literal science in a movie for it to be Sci-Fi?
The spaceships, robots and laser weapons are not enough?
Not that it ultimately matters (labels aren’t my thing) but I doubt most people would consider Star Wars as more fantasy than Sci-Fi.
El Floppo
Footballguy
so it will be in your RomCom rankings then...
Scoresman
Footballguy
Leaving that one for someone else to do.
Someone should do comedy. I'm not qualified as there are an embarrassing amount of movies I need to watch, but that would be fun.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Comedy is an odd one - some movies that were hysterically funny at the time, don’t age well for various reasons.
Keith R
The Don
Yeah, the mere presence of spaceships and robots involve science. Since Star Wars wasn't a documentary, it's also fiction. Ergo, sci-fi
Scoresman
Footballguy
That's partially why it would make a great countdown thread.
Spaceballs too?
El Floppo
Footballguy
I'm ok with the argument that a movie like SW is also fantasy... But yeah- robots and technology that doesn't exist yet is to me the very definition of science fiction.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
There's a million documentaries on 2001. This one from a couple months ago is pretty good
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Scoresman
Footballguy
Spaceballs is to sci-fi what Young Frankenstein is to horror.
I think they both tangentially count, but I omitted Spaceballs just to avoid that rabbit hole this go around.
Keith R
The Don
Haha. I am the one who put Young Frankenstein on my horror list. Call me a literalist
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I don't think it is even close myself but I think most people would call it a blend because people are so trained to think "it is in space so it must be sci fi"
But you don't need to take my word for it. George Lucas calls it a space fantasy and not sci fi.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I see your Schwartz is as big as mine.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Let me copy something posted earlier in this thread
==============
The presence of science devices doesn’t make it science fiction. That’s a matter of themes. Science fiction are stories that explore the effect of science and technology on society (iRobot, Frankenstein, Iron Man). Science fiction asks, “What would happen if we had X technology?”
While Star Wars has technology beyond ours, the stories are not concerned with the origins of or the effects of said technology.
Thematically, Star Wars is fantasy all the way. There are other influences brought into it and some of the newer content branches into those influences more directly, but it’s still fantasy at its core.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Wrong.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
2 of 3, but i think you might be choosing the incorrect one from the same director for #1.I have 8 still on my list that I'd guess would land in my top 30-40 or so that I don't see skimming your list (a few top 10). 1 artsy and boring (), 2 from the same director, one from a huge franchise, and 5 random ones that I thought of while staring at my shelf. I am guessing it's 2 of the first 4 I described, but who knows. Great movies taken today - all I would have had high on the list as well.
Scoresman
Footballguy
2 of 3, but i think you might be choosing the incorrect one from the same director for #1.I have 8 still on my list that I'd guess would land in my top 30-40 or so that I don't see skimming your list (a few top 10). 1 artsy and boring (
Maybe, but I have my ted talk on my number one movie transcribed and ready to post and defend it.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'm not sure this is definitive.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
2 of 3, but i think you might be choosing the incorrect one from the same director for #1.I have 8 still on my list that I'd guess would land in my top 30-40 or so that I don't see skimming your list (a few top 10). 1 artsy and boring (
Maybe, but I have my ted talk on my number one movie transcribed and ready to post and defend it.
LFG
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
Pretty sure I know what it is, otherwise there’s a glaring omission
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
Shame on you for not including the best Star Wars movie though. RotS should have been on here
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
If #1 is what I think, and it has to be, my criticism of 2001 goes double for it.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
2001 still looks and sounds so incredible. It’s almost impossible to imagine how they made that movie in 1968. It hasn’t lost a single thing in the last 50+ years. It’s still every bit as impressive and puzzling and for me, intoxicating. It’s just about as important and significant of a movie as has ever been made.
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