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How many times are Trump supporters going to repeat this line of “You guys are obsessed with politics, go out and enjoy the day!” So tiresome. Unless you live in Southern Cal like I do my friend, you’re not in paradise.
Perhaps....if I'm being honest, I don't know why he chose the term. I don't see how it's damage control though. Any mention of "socialist" seems to be a bad idea. Just look at this thread as an example. Even things that aren't socialist are labeled as such and attacked. Seems much smarter for him to push back on it all together given none of his major policy initiatives fit the definition of socialist or democratic socialist. But he's leaned into the term for whatever reason. If I were labeling him, I'd be going with "populist". His battle is for the individual who's functioning in a system where money talks and not everyone has equal access to the money primarily because of the way laws are written.Damage control and talking out of both sides of his mouth.Fair enough....this is the rub you will continually run into. I can't speak specifically to anyone other than Bernie though, but he's defined the term outside your stricter definitions. I'm good with your definition, but you're going to have huge issues in communication here if you don't also push back on him identifying himself as such if the distinction isn't consistent. I tend to agree with you over all these issues. His proposals around M4A, food stamps, expanding public education etc AREN'T socialist. It's probably best to make that clear in each post as well. My
It isnt like Bernie is so unique that he needs his own newly defined label. I am waiting for people to start branding him as a democratic social independent. Well except on tuesdays when he is just a democrat.
He picked democratic socialist for a reason. He tweets support for pretty much every labor union dispute that is active. I actually stopped following him on twitter because i got sick of seeing the we stand with joe bob's custodial workers and wont poop in any toilets they service until ownership agrees to give them a fair share of the profits! tweets
Not saying that labor union support makes somebody a socialist, but his super passionate pleas about pretty much every union ever and his loathing of the uber wealthy to me show his true colors and make his choice of labeling ring true not the post criticism redefining i am seeing.
I'm going to need a link for this one. I know you don't believe that at all. I'll give you credit for one thing, you sure can sling it up against the wall. Lots of it.
One reason actual socialists (including Democratic Socialists) criticize Social Democrats and proponents of the Nordic model is because they say social democracy only works in countries with powerful labor movements.
Interesting take considering recent events, lol.
By choice, man!
Not at all. It's like Joe Pesci's quote from Goodfellas.... "I settle down with a nice girl every night, then I'm free the next morning.”
OK first of all, Hillary got 65 million votes and won the popular vote. Not saying she didn't screw up a lot of things, but maybe we don't need to go all in on the Costanza "Opposite" strategy just yet. I mean, Hillary also showed up to the debate fully clothed and yet still lost; should this year's Dem nominee walk around pantsless?
One Gallup poll had him up to 49 or 50 recently. It appears to be an outlier.Am I missing some numbers somewhere?
I don't have a vote in my state primaries. I'm registered independent, but I will absolutely be voting in Nov. My vote won't show up in any primary numbers. That's true for many people across the country. I am also hearing, frequently, a somewhat disconcerting message of "I'm not voting in the primary because it doesn't matter, I am voting against Trump regardless". I don't know how pervasive that attitude is, but I hear it around me a lot.
In terms of approval, his highest rankings have been in the 47-48% range at the beginning of his presidency. Been consistently in the low 40s since. It continues to be in the low 40s...maybe "mid 40s" now at 43.X% ?? Is this viewed as a significant achievement to some?
Doesnt matter...pivot to stock market and unemployment...forget about cuts to social programs and exploding deficits.
oh...yeah, i was going by averages. It was Gallup? That's odd....that's something I'd expect from Rasmussen.One Gallup poll had him up to 49 or 50 recently. It appears to be an outlier.Am I missing some numbers somewhere?
I don't have a vote in my state primaries. I'm registered independent, but I will absolutely be voting in Nov. My vote won't show up in any primary numbers. That's true for many people across the country. I am also hearing, frequently, a somewhat disconcerting message of "I'm not voting in the primary because it doesn't matter, I am voting against Trump regardless". I don't know how pervasive that attitude is, but I hear it around me a lot.
In terms of approval, his highest rankings have been in the 47-48% range at the beginning of his presidency. Been consistently in the low 40s since. It continues to be in the low 40s...maybe "mid 40s" now at 43.X% ?? Is this viewed as a significant achievement to some?
I always wondered if he didn't originally, at least somewhat, employ that term for it's shock value - just to get people's attention so he could then explain whatever he was actually talking about. And maybe that worked better 30 years ago in Burlington or VT, but by 2016 he had already used it so much and for so long that dropping it from his shtick would have also cost him his air of authenticity...that "same as he ever was" factor. Of course, that's just my own musings and based on zero actual knowledge.
Well, killing Jews wasn't part of Hitler's original public policy proposals either.VandyMan said:
Real socialism, the kind you're talking about, doesn't make it 10 feet in the US. Too many checks and balances for it to get that far.
I didnt mean him using the word socialist was damage control. I meant him giving a convoluted definition of it was.
Gotcha...thanks for the clarification. I definitely think he's a populist. It seems he believes that things work best if they bubble up rather than trickle down. It really is only for him to answer, but I don't get the sense that he feels like there isn't a place for privately owned business. He talks about helping small businesses often. He talks about the importance of unions etc. I'd think if he were an actual socialist he'd be pushing for things different than he is today.
I'm up for all of that. A good night for attacking everybody and letting everybody see where the Democratic nominees really stand on the issues.
I don't like Bernie and worry about his chances in November, but am not nearly as much of a Cassandra as you are regarding a total wipeout. But as I posted in another thread, I think people are way underestimating the chances that he builds an insurmountable lead on Super Tuesday and then holds off a divided field to at least earn a plurality of delegates, which would almost certainly result in him winning the nomination. You could blame that on a divided "moderate lane", but that's really just another way of saying all those candidates are splitting the vote because they're all flawed and none is strong enough to emerge from the pack.
Sure.
So, in your view, this one demographic is what you're basing the entire theory on? You're ignoring all the other demographics that have changed? Just want to be clear here. I get the talking point in 2016 was that it was just young people that were energized by him, and that was mostly true. He wasn't known to older voters or minorities. Both those have changed since 2016.
My view is that he cannot attract enough voters in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania to put those states back in the blue column.
If you are still willing to bet on politics, I'll put $100 on Bernie head-to-head vs. Trump. Even money.
A hedge? "It really sucks that Trump won, but, hey, I'm $100 richer!" Or..."I just lost $100 but, hey, at least Trump is out of office!"
Nobody loves action more than me, but political bets haven't ended too well on this board.
