The disrespect Tim Tebow gets is astonishing (1 Viewer)

[Football Jones]

According to all the GMs in the entire league he is worth about a 4th round pick. Yet there's this thread.....

The GMs had other considerations-- the media circus, team needs, the fragile egos of other quarterbacks on their teams and their ability to be patient with a young QB without risking their own jobs. Most GMs and coaches are on a perpetual hot seat, so patience isn't really in their vocabulary.One thing we can say about Tebow-- he won't wilt in the NY media limelight. That kind of scrutiny follows him everywhere. That's one variable NY teams wouldn't have to worry about with him. So his development will occur or it won't, but it probably won't be hindered by the press.Tebow is a factor right now, inexperienced as he is. Give him a couple years and see if he grows into a decent passer. If that happens he has other tools already in place. I don't see why people are so eager to write off a 24-year-old.

You nailed it. Go look at ALL the film of Tebow (including preseason) & tell me he can't throw the ball. He just needs to become more consistent. Many of the top QBs looked bad early in their careers. Some looked horrendous.I call it the Blind Eye Syndrome. Many FFers thought players like Matt Forte & Darren McFadden didn't have what it took either. Too much credit was given towards their perceived weaknesses without properly diagnosing their strengths as well as not projecting their aptitude to improve (which was essential with McFadden & particularly important in Tebow's case).We all miss on players, but you can eliminate a lot of that by putting the proper value on the proper indicators. I'm not 100% sure Tebow will be a good NFL QB, but his chances are much, MUCH greater than some people would lead you to believe. And then there's his FF value which could be off the charts if he remains a starter. In short, Tebow is one of the best players to acquire in all of FF right now (depending on his price, of course).

 

[PewterFan]

I watched all the film of the Broncos-Patriots playoff game.

 

[fatness]

No, really much of the attention does NOT come for religious/social reasons. That quote could just easily have come from a talking head on ESPN and the points therin would be equally valid.

I disagree. There have been numerous players enter the NFL with impressive college careers and with questions about their skills translating into NFL skills. None of them have generated adoration out of proportion to their NFL accomplishments like Tebow has. Why is that?

Ummm...the answer to that exact question was in the rest of the post you just quoted.

Talking heads on ESPN and other sports outlets did not pick a random guy named Tebow and start pumping him up until he had legions of fans. They could not produce the same rabid fan base for Blaine Gabbert by pumping him up. Or Andy Dalton, who's considerably better than Tebow.

 

[DoubleG]

According to all the GMs in the entire league he is worth about a 4th round pick. Yet there's this thread.....

I really wish people would stop trying to use this logic. Also according to all GMs in the NFL, Priest Holmes wasn't worth a draft pick...and Marques Colston wasn't worth drafting higher than a 6th round at the time...and Randy Moss was traded to the Patriots for (drumroll) a 4th round pick - right before he set the record for most TDs by a WR ever. So are you suggesting that Tebow will break passing records for the Jets? I didn't think so. There are numerous examples of players being drastically over/undervalued by NFL GMs - all of them, all the time. Such valuation does not mean it is correct.

 

[Possum]

completely disagree with this stuff, though - the only thing you listed that can't be taught or doesn't come with experience is arm strength (and Tebow has enough of that), and I think it's a mistake to assume that a second-year player has already reached his potential, especially a player that works as hard as this kid.

tebow is 24. hes had many years with access to high level instruction to correct these things. he works hard. but he hasnt made any real progress. mebbe theres moar to it than just hard work and wanting it and praying for it.

again, like I said, I think people wildly overestimate how much pro-style instruction he's had to this point and how much that can make a difference going forward. Before coming to the NFL, the guy had never taken a snap from under center in his entire career. Urban Meyer says they knew his mechanics were flawed at UF but didn't work with him on it because he was winning so many games. That Woody Paige article I linked at the bottom of the last page has some more interesting stuff about fixing Tebow's mechanics from people who are paid to do this kind of thing. mebbe theres moar to it than "he's already reached his potential at 24".

 

[Polar Dude]

You guys really need to start paying better attention. I already pointed out once in this thread why it was a horrible comparison.

(1). We're talking about completely different eras. When Elway was a rookie, 50% comp. and an even TD/INT ratio meant you were worthy of Pro Bowl consideration. Putting up those numbers today means you are a dog.

(2). One of the reasons Elway's stats improved were due to rule changes that limited the effectiveness of defensive backs. Are we all banking that a similar rule change is on the horizon to assist Tebow?

(3). Their pedigrees coming out of college were completely different. Although Tebow's college career was far more prolific, there were plenty of experts who doubted he could be a competitive pro QBs. No such doubts ever existed with Elway. Even when the Colts were over a barrel, the Broncos were still willing to pay top dollar to aquire his rights. Heck the Chargers had three number one picks that year and almost traded all three to draft Elway when they still had Dan Fouts in his prime on the roster.

Same number of games? Same position? Those are just foolish reasons to assume that one outcome is going to lead to a similar outcome thirty years later.

83Looks like only two teams had a worse Completion % than Elway his rookie year. It also looks like 50% wouldn't get you close to being in the pro-bowl.

Just two years prior this, Steve Bartkowski actually MADE the Pro Bowl with a 50% completion percentage.

 

[Touchdown There]

One thing we can say about Tebow-- he won't wilt in the NY media limelight.

I think we are about to witness an epic meltdown from both Tebow and the Jets as a team.

 

[Jake22]

According to all the GMs in the entire league he is worth about a 4th round pick. Yet there's this thread.....

I really wish people would stop trying to use this logic. Also according to all GMs in the NFL, Priest Holmes wasn't worth a draft pick...and Marques Colston wasn't worth drafting higher than a 6th round at the time...and Randy Moss was traded to the Patriots for (drumroll) a 4th round pick - right before he set the record for most TDs by a WR ever. So are you suggesting that Tebow will break passing records for the Jets? I didn't think so. There are numerous examples of players being drastically over/undervalued by NFL GMs - all of them, all the time. Such valuation does not mean it is correct.

You bring up reasons which do not have anything to do with what Tebow is worth right now. P.Holmes and Colston never showed anything to scouts prior to coming into the NFL that proved they were as good as they turned out to be, same with Terrell Davis. It wasn't until they had a chance to show what they can do by actually playing in NFL games that their stock went up. Moss is different, he quit on Oakland and no team wants a player that flat out quits on his team, so at that time he wasn't worth much, I didn't/wouldn't ever want Moss playing for my team after what he did to Oakland, which was total BS if he considers himself a professional.Back to Tebow, and from what he has shown on the field in actual NFL games, which is good running ability and very poor passing skills, he is worth what he was traded for, and I wouldn't have given the extra 6th round pick also, but the Jets can have him for that price.

 

[DoubleG]

Back to Tebow, and from what he has shown on the field in actual NFL games, which is good running ability and very poor passing skills, he is worth what he was traded for, and I wouldn't have given the extra 6th round pick also, but the Jets can have him for that price.

You should check the Sanchez/Tebow thread for a comparison. Hint: Tebow's passing numbers in every facet are better, save for completion %.

Even more interesting when you consider Sanchez has 47 NFL starts to Tebow's 14.

And most QBs don't show great passing skills after one season's worth of starts.

 

[Jake22]

Back to Tebow, and from what he has shown on the field in actual NFL games, which is good running ability and very poor passing skills, he is worth what he was traded for, and I wouldn't have given the extra 6th round pick also, but the Jets can have him for that price.

You should check the Sanchez/Tebow thread for a comparison. Hint: Tebow's passing numbers in every facet are better, save for completion %.

Even more interesting when you consider Sanchez has 47 NFL starts to Tebow's 14.

And most QBs don't show great passing skills after one season's worth of starts.

I'll give you those, but I'm going by what I see when I watch him.I remember seeing J.Elway play his first few games in the NFL, and as raw as he was, I told everyone he's going to play in 4 super Bowls whether he wins them or not, he reminded me of a young Terry Bradshaw, who also struggled early in his career.

Tebow's arm looks nothing like either one of them though, whether the stats show it or not, I'm talking just pure throwing, both Bradshaw and Elway had cannons for an arm and both could run, as Tebow can also, but while Tebow can throw a decent deep ball, he can't hit a wide open WR on a 15 yard out pattern. Maybe more games and more experience gets him better in his mid range, but I'm not seeing that from his arm right now, you could see it in those other guys though.

 

[FavreCo]

Boo'ed at Yankee Stadium. Should be an entertaining 2012 season in NY.

 

[fatness]

Sitting in the third row next to the Los Angeles Angels dugout, Tebow cracked a smile and acknowledged the camera. There was a smattering of cheers, but most of the initial reactions were boos.

Associated Press article in Washington Post

 

[DoubleG]

You guys are funny.

First off, Tebow was sitting next to Dwayne Wade - whose Heat had just beaten the Knicks earlier that day.

Secondly, for those of you that are NY-ignorant, most Yankee fans tend to be Giants fans not Jets fans. If they boo-ed him at a Mets game, that might be news. But I love the press (and some posters here) making up #### out of nothing.

Third, Yankee fans pretty much boo everything - cept Santa - that's Philly fans.

 

[fatness]

You guys are funny.

First off, Tebow was sitting next to Dwayne Wade - whose Heat had just beaten the Knicks earlier that day.

link

Sitting in the third row next to the Los Angeles Angels dugout, Tebow cracked a smile and acknowledged the camera. There was a smattering of cheers, but most of the initial reactions were boos.

Sitting next to Tebow was Miami Heat star Dwyane Wade, also booed when he was shown on the scoreboard earlier in the game. But those boos quickly turned to cheers when Wade held up his Yankees cap.

 

[floods]

Third, Yankee fans pretty much boo everything - cept Santa - that's Philly fans.

Pretty sure it was the Yankees fans who actually booed the sun. ETA: Yep - http://www.aolnews.com/2008/06/10/yankee-fans-boo-the-sun/

 

[Run It Up]

One thing we can say about Tebow-- he won't wilt in the NY media limelight.

I think we are about to witness an epic meltdown from both Tebow and the Jets as a team.

Is it a meltdown if your already rockbottom and are only elevated by zealots?

 

[DoubleG]

Third, Yankee fans pretty much boo everything - cept Santa - that's Philly fans.

Pretty sure it was the Yankees fans who actually booed the sun. ETA: Yep - http://www.aolnews.com/2008/06/10/yankee-fans-boo-the-sun/

 

[fatness]

Third, Yankee fans pretty much boo everything - cept Santa - that's Philly fans.

Pretty sure it was the Yankees fans who actually booed the sun. ETA: Yep - http://www.aolnews.com/2008/06/10/yankee-fans-boo-the-sun/

 

[GregR]

Back to Tebow, and from what he has shown on the field in actual NFL games, which is good running ability and very poor passing skills, he is worth what he was traded for, and I wouldn't have given the extra 6th round pick also, but the Jets can have him for that price.

You should check the Sanchez/Tebow thread for a comparison. Hint: Tebow's passing numbers in every facet are better, save for completion %.

Even more interesting when you consider Sanchez has 47 NFL starts to Tebow's 14.

And most QBs don't show great passing skills after one season's worth of starts.

So you're saying Sanchez also has very poor passing skills?

 

[DoubleG]

Back to Tebow, and from what he has shown on the field in actual NFL games, which is good running ability and very poor passing skills, he is worth what he was traded for, and I wouldn't have given the extra 6th round pick also, but the Jets can have him for that price.

You should check the Sanchez/Tebow thread for a comparison. Hint: Tebow's passing numbers in every facet are better, save for completion %.

Even more interesting when you consider Sanchez has 47 NFL starts to Tebow's 14.

And most QBs don't show great passing skills after one season's worth of starts.

So you're saying Sanchez also has very poor passing skills?

Actually, I believe I was saying Sanchez has even poorer passing skills then Tebow - but that was almost 4 weeks ago so I don't remember what I was saying - but the numbers seem to bear that out so, sure.

 

[tom22406]

How dare those Yankee fans for disrespecting "The Tebow".

There will be hell to pay

 

[VA703]

he doesn't get respect because he is not a good football player. the team he led to the playoffs couldn't wait to get a new QB and all they can get is basically a 4th round pick for him so pretty much all NFL teams agree that he is not a good football player

 

[fatness]

According to Jets guard/team spokesman Matt Slauson, the Jets will essentially create a separate offense for Tebow.

"It's like we're going to be two separate teams, but as far as I know, Mark (Sanchez) is still going to be our guy," Slauson said at a charity event Monday night via ESPNNewYork.com.

edit: to add link

 

[DoubleG]

According to Jets guard/team spokesman Matt Slauson, the Jets will essentially create a separate offense for Tebow.

"It's like we're going to be two separate teams, but as far as I know, Mark (Sanchez) is still going to be our guy," Slauson said at a charity event Monday night via ESPNNewYork.com.

edit: to add link

What happens if the "seperate offense" is more effective than the other offense.

 

[Wadsworth]

According to Jets guard/team spokesman Matt Slauson, the Jets will essentially create a separate offense for Tebow.

"It's like we're going to be two separate teams, but as far as I know, Mark (Sanchez) is still going to be our guy," Slauson said at a charity event Monday night via ESPNNewYork.com.

edit: to add link

What happens if the "seperate offense" is more effective than the other offense.

I am thinking maybe you should switch your handle to DoubleT.

 

[DoubleG]

According to Jets guard/team spokesman Matt Slauson, the Jets will essentially create a separate offense for Tebow.

"It's like we're going to be two separate teams, but as far as I know, Mark (Sanchez) is still going to be our guy," Slauson said at a charity event Monday night via ESPNNewYork.com.

edit: to add link

What happens if the "seperate offense" is more effective than the other offense.

I am thinking maybe you should switch your handle to DoubleT.

Hey now - I just asked the question (and based on Sanchez' passing numbers, it's a legit one) - don't shoot (or hate) the messenger.

 

[Devine Intervention]

he doesn't get respect because he is not a good football player. the team he led to the playoffs couldn't wait to get a new QB and all they can get is basically a 4th round pick for him so pretty much all NFL teams agree that he is not a good football player

He doesn't get respect for how good he is. Everyone goes out of their way to discredit him. First they said he wouldn't be drafted in the first round. He was. Then, he'd never start a game. He did. Then, He'd never win a game. He did.Then, he can't beat a team with passing and scoring points. He beat Minnesota in a game where his defense was terrible. Then, he can't get us to the playoffs. He did.Then, he can't win a playoff game. He did. This is what people mean by disrespecting him. No Tebow fans do not want you to think he is the next Joe Montana or Marino. He obviously is no where near the best passer. But this guy is deserving of respect for what he has done in the NFL so far whether or not you agree with his style. Even if respecting him just means to not doubt or almost route against everything this guy does. People say he can't beat out Sanchez as the starter...what do you think will happen?

 

[floods]

Pretty sure he's already got as many playoff wins as Romo.

 

[az_prof]

According to Jets guard/team spokesman Matt Slauson, the Jets will essentially create a separate offense for Tebow.

"It's like we're going to be two separate teams, but as far as I know, Mark (Sanchez) is still going to be our guy," Slauson said at a charity event Monday night via ESPNNewYork.com.

edit: to add link

That's really an astonishing quote! How can you run two separate offenses, one of which is run heavy, and also claim that the team in general is going to be run heavy, and then claim that Sanchez is "our guy." Clearly they don't have much faith in him, right?

 

[Wadsworth]

Pretty sure he's already got as many playoff wins as Romo.

Barry Switzer has as many Super Bowl wins as Tony Dungy.

 

[floods]

Pretty sure he's already got as many playoff wins as Romo.

Barry Switzer has as many Super Bowl wins as Tony Dungy.

Dilfer > Marino

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Pretty sure he's already got as many playoff wins as Romo.

Barry Switzer has as many Super Bowl wins as Tony Dungy.

Dilfer > Marino

To be fair, Dilfer played with the best defense in the league and possibly one of the top 3 of all-time. Tebow played with the 25th ranked defense of that season (still only 22nd even if you eliminate the Orton games).

 

[DoubleG]

To be fair, Dilfer played with the best defense in the league and possibly one of the top 3 of all-time. Tebow played with the 25th ranked defense of that season (still only 22nd even if you eliminate the Orton games).

Oh, do stop with facts. The haters have moved beyond facts.

 

[fatness]

Oh, do stop with facts. The haters have moved beyond facts.

The team that drafted him in the first round traded him for a 4th round pick and a 6th round pick 2 years later.

 

[fatness]

According to Jets guard/team spokesman Matt Slauson, the Jets will essentially create a separate offense for Tebow.

"It's like we're going to be two separate teams, but as far as I know, Mark (Sanchez) is still going to be our guy," Slauson said at a charity event Monday night via ESPNNewYork.com.

edit: to add link

What happens if the "seperate offense" is more effective than the other offense.

What happens if Tebow can't block? Or catch? I'd imagine we'll hear a choir of people saying that's unfair, he shouldn't have to block, etc.

The Jets reportedly plan to use Tebow as a regular quarterback, Wildcat quarterback, fullback, H-back, tailback, "personal punt protector,"

 

[floods]

Pretty sure he's already got as many playoff wins as Romo.

Barry Switzer has as many Super Bowl wins as Tony Dungy.

Dilfer > Marino

To be fair, Dilfer played with the best defense in the league and possibly one of the top 3 of all-time. Tebow played with the 25th ranked defense of that season (still only 22nd even if you eliminate the Orton games).

Namath > Marino I like Tebow. I wouldn't want Tebow to QB the Cowboys, but he's a good dude, loves the game, and leads well. This has the potential to be the most entertaining NFL season to record.

 

[Two Deep]

How dare those Yankee fans for disrespecting "The Tebow".There will be hell to pay

Tebow got Tebooed.

 

[MDSkinner]

Third, Yankee fans pretty much boo everything - cept Santa - that's Philly fans.

Pretty sure it was the Yankees fans who actually booed the sun. ETA: Yep - http://www.aolnews.com/2008/06/10/yankee-fans-boo-the-sun/

Obviously this thread needs to be bumped again, but since the Yankee fans booed Tebow, I figured it was appropriate to see that the Knicks fans booed Sanchez and Holmes. Link

 

[shader]

I heard a guy on Sirius radio say that Tebow was "blowing it up" in off-season workouts out in LA. I have actually heard that from another place too. No idea if it's true, but it should be fun to watch.

The media acts as if he's a finished product already, and I can guarantee that he will be working his butt off to improve his accuracy.

If anything, it's going to be really fun to watch.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

he doesn't get respect because he is not a good football player.

Dead wrong on this. He may be a lower tier QB but he's a hell of a football player.

 

[Tau837]

The Jets reportedly plan to use Tebow as a regular quarterback, Wildcat quarterback, fullback, H-back, tailback, "personal punt protector,"

This illustrates two things:1. Tebow is a great football player.2. Tebow will not ultimately be a successful NFL QB. "Jack of all trades, master of none" is not a recipe for success at NFL QB.And, seriously, what team would risk a player they see as being a potential starter at QB by playing him as a punt protector?

 

[glock]

Interesting take on Sanchez vs Tebow here. (see the stats there)

...using our NFL simulation engine, we promoted Tebow to starting quarterback of the 2011 New York Jets. To account for a different offensive scheme with Tebow behind center, we adjusted the team's playbook to a 60-40, rush/pass distribution, took some carries away from Shonn Greene and LaDainian Tomlinson, and gave those touches to Tebow. The schedule was simulated 251 times.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. By swapping out Sanchez for Tebow, the Jets finished the 2011 simulation season 7-9, a game worse that their actual record last season. With Rex Ryan forced to use his quarterback as a third running back, the opposition's end zone was a foreign land. The Jets averaged 16.6 points per game, which would have ranked 28th in 2011, while Sanchez's offense scored a touchdown more per game (13th).

With the exception of a slightly higher completion percentage (57.4 percent), Sanchez's stats compared to Sim Tim's stats were what we expected.

Sim Tim's rushing statistics were a tad more difficult to simulate and project. Because of the way the simulation engine is built, projecting Tebow's rushing touchdowns, as a starting quarterback, was difficult. Once the Jets' offense moved inside the red zone, Tebow, in real life, has a much higher chance of running the ball in for the score. In our 251 season simulations, the computer projected 4.5 rushing touchdowns for Tebow. To account for this skewed result, we tacked on a few more scores in line with his 2011 stats

.

 

[GregR]

To be fair, Dilfer played with the best defense in the league and possibly one of the top 3 of all-time. Tebow played with the 25th ranked defense of that season (still only 22nd even if you eliminate the Orton games).

Oh, do stop with facts. The haters have moved beyond facts.

I'm not sure where those stats came from but they are not correct.Denver had the 20th ranked defense in 2011. If you remove the 5 games Orton played in and and prorate based on games Tebow started, Denver would have been the 15th best defense.

 

[fatness]

I'm not sure where those stats came from but they are not correct.Denver had the 20th ranked defense in 2011. If you remove the 5 games Orton played in and and prorate based on games Tebow started, Denver would have been the 15th best defense.

Oh, do stop with facts. The apostles have moved beyond facts.