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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (9 Viewers)

Trump is about to meet with Zelansky and they’re going to hold a press conference. Zelansky can’t dare say anything that might annoy Trump because Trump can make things very difficult for him. So if Trump says something like “I never pressured you right?” Expect the Ukraine guy to say “of course not Mr President.” 

 
timschochet said:
Yeah but she was deliberately vague because she really hasn’t decided this yet. 

I lean towards focusing on Ukraine but it’s a hard decision. Because McGahn’s testimony could be very damaging. A lot will depend on how the public will react to the events of this week. 
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Every violation or criminal act needs to come out, if for no other reason than to make it clear in voters' minds, in case the Senate won't do the right thing,  next November that Trump is unfit for the office.

 
JuniorNB said:
I think showing a huge body of corruption since the day he took office will be most effective. Let's be honest, Pelosi has no illusions of swaying Republican Senators into voting to impeach. But this is going to be all over the news every day. She is playing to independent voters.
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Finally, us Gary Johnson voters get some respect. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Jesus Christ.  You can't just label everything a "whistle blower" and claim they are the same.  This report came through an established statutory process designed to protect IC whistleblowers.  It requires the report to be delivered to the DNI.  For the GC of the DNI to determine whether it is urgent and credible.  And then the statutory language provides that the DNI "shall" (not may) transmit the report to Congress.  It has absolutley no similarity to what Julian Assange or Reality Winner or Edward Snowden or whatever goofy comparison you got off Reddit did.  
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Thanks, but I really don’t give a #### at all whatever statutory jerkoff you think makes them different.  They had information in the public interest, they did what they could to shed daylight on it.  What exactly do you think would have happened if Bradley Manning went to the chain of command and reported the abuses he saw?  Would they have pranced to the NYT and revealed the atrocities that were happening in our name?  Of course not- they would have buried it and destroyed his career.  

The fact is, the punishments whistleblowers have been subjected to are abhorrent, the government overclassifies and conceals information by design, and many of the same people yammering about rule of law for this “IC whistleblower” generally could give a #### less what happened to other whistleblowers.  

 
timschochet said:
Despite the strong efforts  of conservatives over the last couple of years to destroy the credibility of Adam Schiff, I think the public will view him as a capable, serious no nonsense guy with great credibility. 
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Dems really need to set up a murderers' row of capable and focused panel members when this gets to that point. Nobody who can't do anything but political grandstanding; the Republican members will be doing plenty of that and it will give the American voter the chance to see who's serious about governing the country and who's not.

 
ren hoek said:
Thanks, but I really don’t give a #### at all whatever statutory jerkoff you think makes them different.  They had information in the public interest, they did what they could to shed daylight on it.  What exactly do you think would have happened if Bradley Manning went to the chain of command and reported the abuses he saw?  Would they have pranced to the NYT and revealed the atrocities that were happening in our name?  Of course not- they would have buried it and destroyed his career.  

The fact is, the punishments whistleblowers have been subjected to are abhorrent, the government overclassifies and conceals information by design, and many of the same people yammering about rule of law for this “IC whistleblower” generally could give a #### less what happened to other whistleblowers.  
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@squistion this is an example of what I was talking about. Certain adjectives or descriptors that tend to overstate/inflame, rather than discuss. 

 
White House insiders say that Jared Kushner will be heavily involved in the defense here. 

Damn I guess that Middle East peace is just going to have to be on the back burner for a while....

 
roadkill1292 said:
Dems really need to set up a murderers' row of capable and focused panel members when this gets to that point. Nobody who can't do anything but political grandstanding; the Republican members will be doing plenty of that and it will give the American voter the chance to see who's serious about governing the country and who's not.
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They can potentially use some of the committee staff lawyers, which may help remove from accusations of grandstanding.

 
Apparently Giuliani was on TV this morning saying he had the Ukraine phone call transcript read to him.

Anyone care to explain why a member of Trump's reelection campaign had a Presidential phone call transcript disclosed to him before it was disclosed to Congress?

 
JuniorNB said:
Manafort and Cohen are both sitting in jail cells because of things they did for Trump. While Trump remains free as a bird. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Rudy ends up in jail and Trump still feels just fine about himself. People are just pawns to him. 
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Sam Stein @samstein

“Rudy — he did all of this,” one U.S. official said. “This s---show that we’re in — it’s him injecting himself into the process.”

 
WASHINGTON — President Trump urged the president of Ukraine to contact Attorney General William P. Barr about opening a potential corruption investigation connected to former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., according to a transcript of a July phone call at the center of accusations that Mr. Trump pressured a foreign leader to find dirt on a political rival.

The director of national intelligence and the inspector general for the intelligence community each referred a whistle-blower’s concerns about the call for a possible criminal investigation into the president's actions, according to a Justice Department official.

Law enforcement officials reviewed the matters and declined to open an inquiry, the official said.

During the call, Mr. Trump told President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine that he should be in touch with both Mr. Barr and the president’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, according to the transcript released by the White House on Wednesday.

“There is a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution, and a lot of people want to find out about that,” Mr. Trump said to Mr. Zelensky during the call, according to the transcript. “So whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great.”

The Justice Department said Wednesday that Mr. Barr was unaware that Mr. Trump had told Mr. Zelensky that he would contact him.

 
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Mr. Trump specifically asked his Ukrainian counterpart to “do us a favor” by looking into an unsubstantiated theory pushed by Mr. Giuliani holding that Ukrainians had some role in the emails stolen from the Democratic National Committee.

“I would like to have the attorney general call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of that,” Mr. Trump said on the call, referencing Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel in the Russia case. “Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it, if that’s possible.”

Mr. Trump’s allies argue that he was not exerting improper pressure on Mr. Zelensky, but mentioned Mr. Barr because the Justice Department was already reviewing the origins of the inquiry into Russia’s 2016 election meddling.

The president’s mentions of Mr. Barr and Mr. Giuliani were the most striking part of a half-hour conversation in which the two men discussed a series of issues. But several times, Mr. Trump steered the conversation back to Mr. Barr, Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Biden.

There was no reference, implicit or explicit, to the $391 million in foreign aid that Mr. Trump had told Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, to put a hold on several days before the call took place.

 
Sinn Fein said:
During the call, Mr. Trump told President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine that he should be in touch with both Mr. Barr and the president’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, according to the transcript released by the White House on Wednesday.
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Now why would the President's personal attorney need to be contacted about foreign affairs? Anyone?

:popcorn:

 
Sinn Fein said:
WASHINGTON — President Trump urged the president of Ukraine to contact Attorney General William P. Barr about opening a potential corruption investigation connected to former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., according to a transcript of a July phone call at the center of accusations that Mr. Trump pressured a foreign leader to find dirt on a political rival.

The director of national intelligence and the inspector general for the intelligence community each referred a whistle-blower’s concerns about the call for a possible criminal investigation into the president's actions, according to a Justice Department official.

Law enforcement officials reviewed the matters and declined to open an inquiry, the official said.

During the call, Mr. Trump told President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine that he should be in touch with both Mr. Barr and the president’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, according to the transcript released by the White House on Wednesday.

“There is a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution, and a lot of people want to find out about that,” Mr. Trump said to Mr. Zelensky during the call, according to the transcript. “So whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great.”

The Justice Department said Wednesday that Mr. Barr was unaware that Mr. Trump had told Mr. Zelensky that he would contact him.
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Sinn Fein said:
Mr. Trump specifically asked his Ukrainian counterpart to “do us a favor” by looking into an unsubstantiated theory pushed by Mr. Giuliani holding that Ukrainians had some role in the emails stolen from the Democratic National Committee.

“I would like to have the attorney general call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of that,” Mr. Trump said on the call, referencing Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel in the Russia case. “Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it, if that’s possible.”

Mr. Trump’s allies argue that he was not exerting improper pressure on Mr. Zelensky, but mentioned Mr. Barr because the Justice Department was already reviewing the origins of the inquiry into Russia’s 2016 election meddling.

The president’s mentions of Mr. Barr and Mr. Giuliani were the most striking part of a half-hour conversation in which the two men discussed a series of issues. But several times, Mr. Trump steered the conversation back to Mr. Barr, Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Biden.

There was no reference, implicit or explicit, to the $391 million in foreign aid that Mr. Trump had told Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, to put a hold on several days before the call took place.
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Cross-posted in other thread.

 
timschochet said:
Transcript released- 30 minute call. President talks repeatedly about the need for an investigation into Biden. Right after the Zelensky asks for money to be released, Trump again demands an investigation into Biden. 

Also- the Justice Department will NOT release Whistleblower report to Congress because Barr has decided this does not rise to that level. 
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Is there a link to it?  I want to read it and make my own determination.  

 
squistion said:
It is as bad as we thought and this is not even a verbatim account of what was said.
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Right I was typing as I heard it and not everything I wrote is accurate. 

But the fact that he kept mentioning Giuliani (not to mention Barr) in regard to Biden- it’s far worse than I anticipated. 

 
sho nuff said:
Tim...like when you tagged me and others to leave people alone in the MAGA thread or no respond to certain people...this is where Id give you the same advice.  You point out how the poster doesn't talk about the topics...so why reply?  Perhaps the others are trolling in that other thread, but its typically about Trump or about politics and not just about posters.  They may not be sincere, but its about the topics usually.  There are several posters that do just what you are saying earlier here...all about posters and not the topic.  Those are the ones that should be ignored as it just takes down all discourse.  They drag you into the mud with them.  (and yes...Im guilty of hopping in that mud pit too).
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You love making the mud pit and stirring it up.

 
So, we know:

1.  Trump asked a foreign government to investigate a political rival

2.  Trump asked a foreign government to assist in debunking Mueller Investigation

3.  Trump brought his personal attorney into the mix - not a representative of the US Government

4.  Trump brought DOJ in - but DOJ says that is the first they heard of it

 
Captain Cranks said:
Based on what I'm hearing on CNBC, this isn't as ironclad a case as what was suggested yesterday.
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This is really f'd up, excuse the language. (I mean the events this am, not your post btw).

Trump essentially sics Barr on Biden to contact Zelensky to investigate Biden and now it's turned out that the IG referred a criminal complaint about this to the DOJ, which the DOJ has declined, and now the DOJ is refusing to release the complaint.

 
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