the moops
Footballguy
You aren't the only one in this thread friend
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Dining in groups (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Terminalxylem
- Start date
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
OK, sorry for being sensitive. I've been dealing with varying degrees of OCD and other anxiety my entire adult life. I feel like I really had it under control for a long time, but COVID caused some regression that I'm still fighting through. I still don't think it's odd to wash my hands when I get to a restaurant, though. But based on my observations I would say that only about 3% of people do.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Don’t even think twice about it and don’t feel like it’s necessary to explain yourself. Covid was (and still is) a crazy time for everybody. I lost a 58 year old healthy family member to Covid, my coworker lost her father to it. Whether or not it is as serious now, I cannot fathom how some people haven‘t changed their habits at all since it. It’s not just a covid thing, getting sick in general sucks. If I’m sick, I either do my best to stay away from people, or I’ll mask up when I’m sick. I avoid touching door handles that are in high traffic areas, and avoid touching elevator buttons. I have a device on my keychain similar to the one in the link below. It’s great for opening doors without having to touch them, great for hitting elevator buttons, great for hitting the button on traffic lights when you are looking to cross a street. In any case, I find myself washing my hands more and touching my face less since Covid. If that makes me weird, so be it.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Fair enough. I started the thread to stimulate discussion, and maybe my word choice was disproportionate to the degree of actual annoyance. You guys can’t read my mind, and haven’t eaten with me, to gauge how irritated I am. My bad.
They seemed to annoy you enough to start a thread here on the topic. And you also had this to say:
I may be Type A, a little.
Sometimes I have to force a more leisure persona in large groups. But that doesn’t mean I have to like it.
I think most of us are just going off what you have said in this thread. It seems like these things annoy you more than a little.
That said, I don’t think it’s horrific to be annoyed from time to time. Little things like traffic get to most of us, for example. Inefficiency and expecting special treatment bother me.
But I‘m not laying awake at night stewing over non-stacked menus, or getting into conflict with slow-eating friends and family. Without belief in an afterlife, I try to cherish the limited time I have with the people I care about.
Both my parents passed away decades ago, and my family is pretty small, so friends are especially precious. I travel regularly with several groups of them, some annually for 20+ years. However annoyed I may be, I don’t believe it has adversely affected those relationships.
You’re right I shouldn’t let peeves get to me, but I see no harm in expressing them on this forum. Despite my poor communication, rest assured, I understand the value of time spent with those I love.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
It isn't odd to wash your hands in a restaurant (or before you eat). A lot of people don't, but that doesn't make it odd.
Sorry you have to go through the OCD thing. One of our friends went through the "we have to wash everything from the grocery store" thing. Not fun.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
I stand with shuke
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Yeah, these guidelines seem less about rushing people, and more about doing a few simple things to help the restaurant serve you more efficiently. So that ultimately you guys can enjoy each other more.
Also, there are two good times to go to the bathroom. Before every one is seated, or AFTER you've ordered your food (or clearly told someone else your order).
90% of my job is getting people to focus (well, really trying make sure I only spend time with people that are focused).
Actually that's not true. Most of our customers are pretty well trained by this point, and I can manage around the time-wasters.
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I didn't think you were being sensitive at all. The making fun of people washing their hands was a weird flex.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
If you don't want people to argue with the hand washing, just pick your nose first right in front of them.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Tl;dr.
I've got no time for so many words when I need to do things, like eat. And I prefer my food blended so I can just suck it up in one take through a straw and get the whole thing over with as efficiently and quickly as possible.
I reuse floor napkins.
I wash my hands before eating.
I've got no time for so many words when I need to do things, like eat. And I prefer my food blended so I can just suck it up in one take through a straw and get the whole thing over with as efficiently and quickly as possible.
I reuse floor napkins.
I wash my hands before eating.
And I know or assume GM eats normal-like when not in a shuke-challenge video, but seeing him use the word "dine" still made me giggle.
greedygoat
Footballguy
Reading this thread is makes my face itch.
Scoresman
Footballguy
Or some of us actually learned something from the pandemic. Like I said, I've had one illness since 2019 after getting colds and flus annually or more and I absolutely attribute it to just being more conscious about things like this.
We have a group of friends that if you get stuck with figuring out the bill you end up making money because everyone puts in their share plus some to make sure. We also have a different group of friends that barely put in their actual cost and never extra for a tip and you end up always having to make up the difference. The key is knowing which group is which. We typically don't do big outings with the couples that tend to under pay and when that happens we make them figure out the bill.
I wonder how much of the bold is because you are more diligent about certain things and how much is because other people are more diligent about certain things. I bet it's close to a 50-50 split. Even though not everyone stays home when they are sick I have seen a significant drop of sick people at work or out and about. Less carriers around means less to catch coupled with more diligence on your own habits is likely why the significant drop.
For me, I barely got sick before the pandemic and barely sick after. I haven't really changed anything I do. I don't hand sanitize often (maybe once a day (if I think about it) when leaving the office for lunch since there is a sanitizer station at the door exit). Never use sanitizer anywhere else. I don't wash my hands any more or less than I did before. I have never had a flu shot but did get the first COVID vaccine (no boosters since).
On the other hand I have a couple friends that are sick all the time and they wash their hands all the time, get all the vaccines, bath in hand sanitizer, etc. It's just interesting how people are different.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The 2nd group I know and quit. Whoever was there last had to cover the cheap asses that left with no tax or tip. The final time with them I just made sure I was the first to leave.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Except my biggest takeaway is “Stop licking pennies”. I never got that much concrete advice from the covid thread.
Drunken knight
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I had to read this slowly.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I typically bring a portable UV lamp to help sanitize objects like menus and utensils. Best to use disposable latex gloves to handle the objects while sanitizing too.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Had to or wanted to?
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Getting back to eating out.
My SIL is the worst. First of all she asks about every item, how many meatballs do you get with the spaghetti? Never will she order the meal as intended, give me the mushroom burger but instead of mushrooms I want green olives.
Then 80% of the time something is wrong with her meal, 50% of the time she sends it back. And never..I mean never recommend a place to eat to her. I did and she said it was horrible.
I said to my BIL "Why do you even go out to eat?"
My SIL is the worst. First of all she asks about every item, how many meatballs do you get with the spaghetti? Never will she order the meal as intended, give me the mushroom burger but instead of mushrooms I want green olives.
Then 80% of the time something is wrong with her meal, 50% of the time she sends it back. And never..I mean never recommend a place to eat to her. I did and she said it was horrible.
I said to my BIL "Why do you even go out to eat?"
Drunken knight
Footballguy
my mother cannot just order what is on the menu. definitely a "when harry met sally"
my father, despite numerous discussions about it, cannot acknowledge true meat temperatures. wants to order steak mid-rare, actually likes medium or mid-well. nobody can cook a steak!!!
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I have a different issue in eating out in group settings. Say two couples go out. Wife and I each get a moderate entree, a soft drink or water, no apps or desert. The other couple both get a couple of cocktails, an app, the most expensive entrees on the menu, and split a dessert. The bill comes and the couple throws down a credit card and suggests we split the bill. This happens way too frequently and involves my wife’s friends or relatives.
Since I am the one that usually gets the other half of the bill, I am not a huge fan of this situation. I don’t feel like subsidizing an extra $50+ for stuff we didn’t consume. The situation only gets worse when my wife’s solution is for me to pay the ENTIRE bill instead. (There is no quid pro quo where the other couple will pay the next time.)
And she said suggesting separate checks is embarrassing. That was my solution, but short of that I have to just realize I am going to take a loss in going out beforehand.
Since I am the one that usually gets the other half of the bill, I am not a huge fan of this situation. I don’t feel like subsidizing an extra $50+ for stuff we didn’t consume. The situation only gets worse when my wife’s solution is for me to pay the ENTIRE bill instead. (There is no quid pro quo where the other couple will pay the next time.)
And she said suggesting separate checks is embarrassing. That was my solution, but short of that I have to just realize I am going to take a loss in going out beforehand.
ChiefD
Footballguy
You tell the waiter at the beginning that you guys are on one check and they are on a check.
Been doing this for years. Works like a champ.
Based on what is happening then Chief's suggestion is really the only equitable solution. Even flip flopping picking up the check isn't "fair" if you are always going cheap on your side. Although I do know people that go cheap when they are paying and go super expensive when they aren't. That's not really a great thing to do either.
the moops
Footballguy
Next time get the two most expensive entrees and get completely hammered over several expensive martinis. Get some food to go too
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I am in Chief's camp, but my wife really is averse to that strategy. Her perspective is that we look cheap even suggesting that, and I should offer up front to pick up the tab for everyone. That's not just for one couple . . . that's for whoever is there. That happened on an outing with 12 of us, and I about blew a gasket. I assume it's because she wants us to appear like we are swimming in money and keeping up appearances. Because of that, I am often leery of going out without first getting a breakdown of who is going and what the financial requirements and expectations are.
It's pretty sad when you go out and once it's been announced as "our treat" BEFORE people order that they go hog wild and even express to each other that they are going to go hog wild since they're not paying for it. I've said to my wife that if we are going to pick up the tab, let people order and have their meals first and then surprise people at the end that we've got the check (so they don't go on a spending spree). I liked that idea much better, but for whatever reason, she wants it out there up front that we will pay for the entire group.
Instinctive
Footballguy
I wonder if there is something generational here too. We do this kind of thing all the time, and sometimes we have no alcohol, sometimes we're the ones with a couple cocktails, sometimes I eat twice as much as everyone else, etc.
It's literally never felt weird for me if the other couple is like "hey let's just split it" or "hey, let's get him to put the checks on each side as ordered". Both things feel totally normal for me to ask or suggest to my friends also.
I've got some couples we go out with so much I assume it'll come out in the wash in the long run, I've got some where I try to be aware because I know I'll eat or drink more consistently (I'm like a foot taller than the couple I have in mind and more active so it's not insane gluttony LOL), and some where I do what Chief says and always just flag to waiter at the start "Hey, us two together and those two together please"
Instinctive
Footballguy
Holy cow. That would have been a deal breaker for me in a relationship.
That said, you've got the right idea, IMO. I might try to have a deeper discussion with her, like why does this matter to her, what about it bothers you, etc, try to get down into the feelings of it all and see if there's a way that doesn't have you upset at her all the time.
ETA: which, as I hit submit, you aren't even asking about. So also just ignore me because the thing I most often get annoyed by is other people giving me unsolicited marital advice.
"coming out in the wash" should be the proper outcome but that is really dependent upon the other couples tendencies compared to yours. For example, my wife generally doesn't drink alcohol. So if we go out with couples that are polishing off $70 bottles of wine to my couple beers and her soda it will never be a wash.
I agree that either flipping tabs or splitting checks is perfectly fine and don't have any issue doing this. If you are good enough friends that are like minded it shouldn't be an issue either way. It comes more into play with acquaintances rather than friends. Bottom line is it only really works with like minded people....what ever that like minded is.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Get new friends.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
In my case, I don't mind as much when it involves people we see pretty frequently. But when it involves my wife's friends from college (who I don't know), or her second cousin, his spouse, and their kids (none of whom I met before), or her friends from work (who I might recognize their names), that's different. I don't really feel like it's our responsibility to pay for these people.
We have tried discussing this some, and her response has been that in the past (potentially years ago) they probably paid for her to go out and now it's our turn to level things out. In some cases, she has some family members that are not that well off, and I don't mind as much paying for them . . . until they start ordering the most expensive things on the menu.
We all have things to work through in relationships and battles to fight. In my case, the outcome that I have chosen to live with that works for me is having her go out more with her friends and family without me. IMO, that's a decent compromise. She doesn't seem to mind, and I'd rather worry about myself for a meal then getting riled up over me paying for people I don't know.
coopersdad
Footballguy
Is your SIL my MIL?
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
If you aren’t in dire straits financially, I wouldn’t stress over it, assuming you enjoy dining with the couple in question.
That said, while people are certainly entitled to order whatever they want, it is pretty thoughtless to repeatedly put you in that position. Any time I’ve had friends with a markedly different tab, they offer to put in extra $.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I’ve joked about adding expensive stuff to the tab when my (cheap) friend offers to pay. But I didn’t really change my order, and find it surprising many other people would take advantage of the situation. Realistically, how often does this happen?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
A lot of times and situations I don't care all that much and mostly adhere to the "things balance out" philosophy. If we go out with people for a burger and a couple of beers, who really cares (although nights like that are getting pricier these days)? Those nights are usually fun, and it's hard to rack up a huge bill (ie, people can't order a $68 steak paired with a $200 bottle of wine).
But when we go out to a fancy restaurant with people loaded to the gills talking about their 2-month trip to the Orient and their upcoming journey to Australia, I don't feel inclined to have to pay for them (no matter what they order).
Sometimes we have gone out with folks with kids just old enough to drink and they have conspired to keep buying alcohol and having too much to drink. That's a tough one, as they aren't going to offer to chip in, they get obnoxious, and I would be inclined to tell them they get one mixed drink and then have to switch to soft drinks. But the discussion then turns into "oooohhhhhh, we haven't seen these people in a while, what's the big deal?"
I'll give another example. With our kids, they are now all at the age where they are dating people, and when you add in multiple kids with multiple +1's, things add up quickly. Those type of situations get a bit awkward. I would usually pay for our kids (who have high paying jobs), but I'm not really sure I want to pay for the person that they've just started dating or have seen off and on (mostly off) for the past 3 years. Probably a different question, but at what age / stage in life should kids be expected to chip in when going out (or pay for their dates) . . . especially when they have established careers and make good money?
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
You just answered your own question.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I don’t usually factor in the finances of the person I’m dining with, but point taken. Also, I may be fortunate I don’t have friends who drink much/in a sophisticated fashion, or dine often with big families. When that does happen, they automatically pony up money, to offset the obvious bloating of the bill.
Not a fan of enabling people getting liquored up though, no matter their age. It’s pretty wacky for anyone to think you’ll pick up the tab for expensive bottles of wine, etc., except for special occasions imo. Sounds like your wife wants to make every occasion special, and/or is too concerned what others may think of your finances/spending habits.
As for your own kids, if they are gainfully employed adults, they can pay for their own dates. But it’s certainly nice to foot the entire bill once in a while. That shouldn’t be the default, though.
gianmarco
Footballguy
We should meet up sometime for dinner. The whole fam.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
How many people are we talking here?
Things have worked out Ok for me in dinners with 8ish adults, but I can see how it could break down if it gets much larger, or there are a bunch of kids.
Things have worked out Ok for me in dinners with 8ish adults, but I can see how it could break down if it gets much larger, or there are a bunch of kids.
Zow
Footballguy
If it's that disparate, it is pretty ****ty of them to not try to at least leave the tip or whatever.
I say this as somebody, per my post up thread, that strongly prefers to just split to avoid the social awkwardness of people totaling things up, asking later to split the bill, etc.
Zow
Footballguy
If I'm not paying (and assuming I know ahead of time who is) I'll try to strategically wait for that person to order to make sure I don't order anything more expensive than they order.
Zow
Footballguy
Eh, I think this one boils down to who invited whom. I'd like to think I'm not that far away from this stage, and as either the date or the dater, I really appreciated when the parent would pick up the tab if the parent is the one who set up the dinner. I think that's appropriate if the parent invites the kid and approves the bringing of the date.
Up thread I mentioned my dad's awkwardness. The most cringe-worthy time I had with him was when we'd go out with me, my gf (whichever one it was at the time), and my sister. The bill would be so damn awkward when it came because he didn't know what to date. I'd just throw him cash or put a card down and he would, then of course my sister wouldn't.* He kind of alienated some dates that way and it was just so incredibly awkward.
*She's also gainfully employed at this time and she's the reason I wouldn't just pick up the whole tab.
Zow
Footballguy
WTF who are these people that you're having dinner with???
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
That’s reasonable, but would require me to wait in situations where people are slow to decide. I’d rather pay than exercise patience.
Realistically though, it’s mostly an issue with expensive booze + a few big ticket foods I’m unlikely to order. More times than not, me and my wife’s orders are the cheapest* in a group.
*Yes, I know I posted several not cheap meals in the “restaurants are expensive” thread, but those types of places aren’t typically where group meals occur.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
No kidding. @bigbottom had it right upthread.
rockaction
Footballguy
This all makes me really hesitant about group dinners. Those aren't really in my immediate future outside of family, so I guess it's just sympathy for those who are getting taken advantage of by others. That's saddening.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
It's not a problem if you don't have dooshy friends.
And if you invited the guests, you pay. But a lot of these things are just "we are getting together" type things, so no host. We do also always cover anyone who can't really afford to come otherwise. Their company is more important than the money.
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