FBGs No Longer Partnered With FFTOC (1 Viewer)

[stedman]

There is always two sides to a story and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. I appreciate Joe and company taking the high road and not saying anything but we are no longer associated with FFTOC.

Fortunately I did not receive this email; I opted-out as soon as possible.

Each and everyone one of the 8000 of us should flood their email with the word remove in the subject line. It would go a long way in sending a message.

To remove your email address, please respond to this email with the

word remove in the subject line

---

http://www.FFTOC.com

 

[RageRhino]

what a shady business.

 

[John Mamula]

what a shady business.

who?

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

I love the "or we will have no option but to seek judicial remedies against Footballguys."

How about they stop using my email or I will "have no option but to seek judicial remedies against FFTOC"?

 

[dickey moe]

My response to that last FFTOC email:

Dear FFTOC,

Despite your statement herein, I consider this email and any future emails I receive from you as spam. Remove me from your mailing list immediately. You're not making a good name for yourself in this business, you're pissing off a lot of people, and you're probably losing many potential customers.

Yours truly,

[dickey moe]

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Any of the lawyerly types around here know if they have a leg to stand on with the defamation thing? I don't recall any official FBG material or even Joe or David's posts here calling it "spam". A lot of us on the MB called it that, but where did a representative of FBG make that claim?

 

[Rooster]

My response to that last FFTOC emailear FFTOC,Despite your statement herein, I consider this email and any future emails I receive from you as spam. Remove me from your mailing list immediately. You're not making a good name for yourself in this business, you're pissing off a lot of people, and you're probably losing many potential customers.Yours truly,[dickey moe]

don't hold your breath, they didn't honor my request to remove my address from their list after the last email.

 

[dickey moe]

My response to that last FFTOC emailear FFTOC,Despite your statement herein, I consider this email and any future emails I receive from you as spam. Remove me from your mailing list immediately. You're not making a good name for yourself in this business, you're pissing off a lot of people, and you're probably losing many potential customers.Yours truly,[dickey moe]

don't hold your breath, they didn't honor my request to remove my address from their list after the last email.

Oh, I'm sure they'll keep sending them to us. Then we'll be primed for the class action lawsuit.

 

[Gamblor]

 

[Kleck.]

Dear Sir or Ma'am,

Please don't ####### send me any more of this lost love affair bull####. I don't give a flying #### #### who is to blame, who got bent or who didn't give the other a reach around. Just let it go, and leave my email address out of it.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Dear Sir or Ma'am,Please don't ####### send me any more of this lost love affair bull####. I don't give a flying #### #### who is to blame, who got bent or who didn't give the other a reach around. Just let it go, and leave my email address out of it.

a flying... what???

 

[dickey moe]

Dear Sir or Ma'am,Please don't ####### send me any more of this lost love affair bull####. I don't give a flying #### #### who is to blame, who got bent or who didn't give the other a reach around. Just let it go, and leave my email address out of it.

a flying... what???

#### ####

 

[Incogneto]

I am not saying they are guilty, but are the FBG's hands 100% clean on this one? From what I hear, the lack of payment came BEFORE the emails were spammed.

Just playing Devil's advocate...

That said, I have asked to be removed from FFTOC's mailing list.

 

[Rooster]

I am not saying they are guilty, but are the FBG's hands 100% clean on this one? From what I hear, the lack of payment came BEFORE the emails were spammed.

If FBG for whatever reason decided not to go through with the deal, that's their choice and was permitable by the contract. Not knowing the facts, it sounds like FFTOC made out very well as it seems to have received 3 payments and didn't give up any ownership stake because FBG decided not to continue with the 4th. While FFTOC can probably present a pretty good argument that subscribers went into a business relationship with them by using their site for the contest (I can't remember if I had to provide my email or if it was supplied by FBG), it was less than classy on FFTOC's part to turn down a reasonable request by FBG to remove email addresses for those who only participated in the FBG subscriber contest. It was also shady to send out an email to that list saying they "won" a drawing for a free subscription to a competitor site when it is apparent that everyone "won the drawing."Based on the info I have, I can't see where FBG has done wrong here. I can, however, see several cases where FFTOC acted in a manner I consider unprofessional. Of course, I'm not exactly unbiased either.

 

[Joe T]

weird

I just got spammed by ITS...

 

[Winston Wolfe]

weirdI just got spammed by ITS...

:fu:It must be 2004 related.

 

[smcindoe]

The position of FFTOC is that e-mails sent to a lawfully obtained subscriber list are not spam.

Really?If I opt in to receive offers or other information, then it's not spam. If I didn't opt in, or didn't know that I did, then it's borderline. But when the e-mails they send out are intentionally deceptive, I'm not really sure how you could call it anything but spam.

 

[Fishboy]

LOL @ the FBG "sheep".

Opt out and end of story. Whether it's a smart strategy, I see FFTOC doing nothing illegal. Albeit a stupid decision IMO.

Opt out may take an email or two, but let's get off the "high horse" here.

 

[Winston Wolfe]

Here's to hoping that this is the end of the subscriber email pissing match, but by all means, keep it going on the MB.

He said she said is just going to piss people off.

 

[freshly_shorn]

Here's to hoping that this is the end of the subscriber email pissing match, but by all means, keep it going on the MB.He said she said is just going to piss people off.

It's unfortunate that FFTOC feels the need to air out its dirty-laundry like this. If that's how they're going to run their business, they won't be in it for long- whether what they say is true or not. It is a great concept (not as one to replace traditional FF, but as a paying contest of skill), and it won't die. I fully expect they will be bought out by better businessmen.I'd expect that there will be serious consolidation in the value-added fantasy sports sites. I hope Footballguys will stick to their guns and learn from this- and continue to grow the business. I feel like they're just getting started- I hope they can be made whole again and move ahead.

 

[Tick]

I feel like they're just getting started- I hope they can be made whole again and move ahead.

Maybe FBG just needs to be held.

 

[DrunkinDwarf]

Here's to hoping that this is the end of the subscriber email pissing match, but by all means, keep it going on the MB.He said she said is just going to piss people off.

It's unfortunate that FFTOC feels the need to air out its dirty-laundry like this. If that's how they're going to run their business, they won't be in it for long- whether what they say is true or not. It is a great concept (not as one to replace traditional FF, but as a paying contest of skill), and it won't die. I fully expect they will be bought out by better businessmen.I'd expect that there will be serious consolidation in the value-added fantasy sports sites. I hope Footballguys will stick to their guns and learn from this- and continue to grow the business. I feel like they're just getting started- I hope they can be made whole again and move ahead.

The FFTOC email was in very poor taste in my opinion. The focus was almost entirely on the details of their dispute with FBG. If they felt an explanation was necessary, they should have kept it short and sweet and spent more time trying to retain the established FBG clientele as their own. From FFOTC's perspective, I would consider this a very big missed opportunity.

 

[Fishboy]

I feel like they're just getting started- I hope they can be made whole again and move ahead.

Maybe FBG just needs to be held.

Again the FBG "sheep" being "herd".It's "he said, she said". I see no "fault" on either side. I just tire of the "Joe, go Joe!"

 

[ffball-novice]

The position of FFTOC is that e-mails sent to a lawfully obtained subscriber list are not spam.

Really?If I opt in to receive offers or other information, then it's not spam. If I didn't opt in, or didn't know that I did, then it's borderline. But when the e-mails they send out are intentionally deceptive, I'm not really sure how you could call it anything but spam.

I suspect that if their techniques of acquiring said lawfully obtained list do not meet federal law guidelines, then the FFTOC position doesn't hold water. I think that generally default opt-ins aren't legit anymore. Privacy policies and an email remove bot aren't enough in today's environment. Sayinng nothing of the fraudulent (Ok maybe legally just a fake contest email.

 

[dickey moe]

I feel like they're just getting started- I hope they can be made whole again and move ahead.

Maybe FBG just needs to be held.

Again the FBG "sheep" being "herd".It's "he said, she said". I see no "fault" on either side. I just tire of the "Joe, go Joe!"

True -- but we do have a right to ##### about their unwanted emails cluttering up our inboxes.

 

[FreeDrJack]

I feel like they're just getting started- I hope they can be made whole again and move ahead.

Maybe FBG just needs to be held.

Again the FBG "sheep" being "herd".It's "he said, she said". I see no "fault" on either side. I just tire of the "Joe, go Joe!"

I agree. I just wonder why they didn't make the 4th payment after they hyped FFTOC so much.

 

[Fishboy]

I feel like they're just getting started- I hope they can be made whole again and move ahead.

Maybe FBG just needs to be held.

Again the FBG "sheep" being "herd".It's "he said, she said". I see no "fault" on either side. I just tire of the "Joe, go Joe!"

True -- but we do have a right to ##### about their unwanted emails cluttering up our inboxes.

have you tried to "unsubscribe"?

 

[hakras]

Here is how I responded to their spam:

This whole thing is very unprofessional. I can't believe that this is all over one late payment. Is it really that bad in FFTOC land that you would break off a positive venture? If you think you are saving face by sending this letter, you are sadly mistaken and wasting your time. Footballguys is the only reason I became a subscriber to your site in the first place. I am fairly confident that Football subscribers outnumbered your existing subscribers when you got affiliated with Footballguys. You should be thankful to have had the opportunity to work with Footballguys. I hope that you do not harass me with any more of this garbage.

I didn't even bother mentioning about unsubscribing. They'll never do it. Footballguy subscribers were most likely 75% of their base. IMO They lost on this one.

 

[Faust]

By the way, keep a close watch on Dodds...ref. his revenge thread last year.

Dodds = De Niro as Al Capone during the board meeting in "The Untouchables"

Ohhh - I would like to see that thread. It sounds good.

 

[Sinrman]

Here's to hoping that this is the end of the subscriber email pissing match, but by all means, keep it going on the MB.He said she said is just going to piss people off.

It's unfortunate that FFTOC feels the need to air out its dirty-laundry like this. If that's how they're going to run their business, they won't be in it for long- whether what they say is true or not. It is a great concept (not as one to replace traditional FF, but as a paying contest of skill), and it won't die. I fully expect they will be bought out by better businessmen.I'd expect that there will be serious consolidation in the value-added fantasy sports sites. I hope Footballguys will stick to their guns and learn from this- and continue to grow the business. I feel like they're just getting started- I hope they can be made whole again and move ahead.

The FFTOC email was in very poor taste in my opinion. The focus was almost entirely on the details of their dispute with FBG. If they felt an explanation was necessary, they should have kept it short and sweet and spent more time trying to retain the established FBG clientele as their own. From FFOTC's perspective, I would consider this a very big missed opportunity.

VERY poor taste, and not a smart business decision on their part...

 

[radballs]

By the way, keep a close watch on Dodds...ref. his revenge thread last year.

Dodds = De Niro as Al Capone during the board meeting in "The Untouchables"

Ohhh - I would like to see that thread. It sounds good.

Terrific thread. Not sure if it got pruned.

 

[freshly_shorn]

I feel like they're just getting started- I hope they can be made whole again and move ahead.

Maybe FBG just needs to be held.

Again the FBG "sheep" being "herd".It's "he said, she said". I see no "fault" on either side. I just tire of the "Joe, go Joe!"

Interesting opinion. Too bad you missed the point of my post. I agree that it's irrelevant who's right or wrong- both companies need to learn something from this and move on. I don't have the facts to judge who is right or wrong. I was part of Sandbox back when they were going to be taken over by CBS sportsline, then the deal fell through and Sandbox was never the same. Sometimes these things can ruin good fantasy websites. I left Sandbox after that fiasco. I'd just hate to see something like that ruin FBG.Just my two cents.

 

[Sinrman]

I feel like they're just getting started- I hope they can be made whole again and move ahead.

Maybe FBG just needs to be held.

Again the FBG "sheep" being "herd".It's "he said, she said". I see no "fault" on either side. I just tire of the "Joe, go Joe!"

Interesting opinion. Too bad you missed the point of my post. I agree that it's irrelevant who's right or wrong- both companies need to learn something from this and move on. I don't have the facts to judge who is right or wrong. I was part of Sandbox back when they were going to be taken over by CBS sportsline, then the deal fell through and Sandbox was never the same. Sometimes these things can ruin good fantasy websites. I left Sandbox after that fiasco. I'd just hate to see something like that ruin FBG.Just my two cents.

Ahhh, I remember ol' Sandbox. I loved it! Sad it went away... :(

 

[Old Redskin]

Posted in the "Free for All" forum...

I really think that it was poor form for FFTOC to air their dirty laundry in an e-mail! They really came across as a bunch of whiners. I could care less about what transpired between FFTOC and Footballguys! I have come to learn that there are always two sides of every story, and somewhere in the middle lies the truth! At the end of the day, I'm sticking with Joe and the rest of the crew at Footballguys.com. They are the ones who have helped me to finish in the top four every year (and two championships to boot)!!!

If anything, from what I read in the e-mail, it sounds as though FFTOC was looking for a way out of the deal ("The agreement provided that if Footballguys failed to pay an installment, the business relationship between Footballguys and FFTOC would end." and "On April 13, 2006, Footballguys falsely announced by

e-mail and on the Footballguys.com web site that it purchased 50% of FFTOC.") "We just care about our subscribers..." What a load of horse crap! If you really cared about your subscribers, you wouldn't bother me with YOUR issues with FBG.

Thanks, Joe for taking the high road and keeping me out of the loop!!!

 

[John Mamula]

weirdI just got spammed by ITS...

 

[Riffraff]

The truth lies somewhere in between.

Assumption: Missed payment most likely meant the merger was over weeks before the "spam" e-mail came out. If the spam was considered the final straw, it would be a misconception as it was already over and was a face-saving tactic.

Assumption: The 3-year subscription push for a limited time was an attempt to gather the funds needed for the final payment. Didn't pan out, venture lost.

Assumption: No clause was in the binding contract to NOT use the member contact information.

Assumption: Publicly calling out either business without a legal leg to stand on can become grounds for defamation, if lost revenue can be proven by either business.

Assumption: Both sides are more than likely trying to save face after a failed venture. Both are trying to keep their share of a select market without looking like there was false advertising involved. Class action suits could be filed against either side if published and perceived benefits are not available to the consumer.

Always multiple sides to a story.

I'm just full of assumptions, but no facts on my part.

Just hope it doesn't turn into a Terrell Owens versus Donovan McNabb debacle.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I'm just interested now in finding out how long am I gonna have to put up with FFTOC spam mail ??I never had anything to do with them till last seasons contest ... and now I'm getting email from them on a very regular basis ... just more spam so no big deal ... but it is the principal of the thing ... they had no right glomming onto Footballguys mail list from last years contest because that was a list provided to them on a business to business transaction and they had no right's to utilize that list without Footballguys permission I would imagine !Bad Karma ... stealing from FBG's !!!

Hi Map,It is their contention that when our FBG Subscribers entered the contest, their email addresses became part of the FFTOC database. We totally disagree. You guys that know me at all know how obsessed I get when it comes to protecting our guys emails. We have NEVER EVER allowed anyone to use our guy's emails for anything. This was no different. Their claim is that by entering the contest powered by FFTOC, that you "opted in" to their system and they can send you what they like. Again, we disagree.I have asked them repeatedly to remove all of the 2005 Footballguys Subscriber Contest emails from their database. To this point, they have not complied. They say they are "their" email addresses now. It's my sincere hope that they reverse that stance and remove your guys emails from their database.J

Joe, I am with you guys 100%, however, you and David should have made it clear that the email addresses were not theirs in the contract. That was a mistake. I have received a long email from FFTOC explaining their side (I am sure others have as well) and they are correct, even if it seems like they entered into this unethically. It is a shame.Edited to add that it seems like FFTOC was looking for a way out and when you missed the payment they said, "great, we received 3/4 of the money for nothing and we can get out of the deal." It appears that they took a legal route to take money from you. I think you got "lawyer'd"

 

[ravnzfan]

Joe if we "opt-out" of their mail list will they honor a request from an individual? How about if 5000 of us write to them and "opt-out"

I've gotten an email from FFTOC w/their version of the eventsI told them 'thanx, but no thanx' and "opted out"

I suggest the rest of us FBG's do the same

 

[Post Corner]

FFTOC = Faulty Football Telegrams Offered by Cheapscapes

 

[Bri]

I think this thread and dispute emails needs to be put to an end in the interest of both parties, at least for a little while. Too many people involved in "airing dirty laundry" now and....it's just best IMO

 

[pigskinliquors]

Joe knows that the main reason he is a class guy is that he graduated from Texas A&M. It is the typical behavior of an Aggie.MarkClass of '84

I think the fact he's classy despite being an Aggie is what makes it so impressive.

 

[blenderfrog]

Just got the same email from FFTOC Staff. Sucks my email address is getting all this crap.

Did you give FFTOC your e-mail address to participate in a contest on their website?I did, and they send me e-mails. I get e-mails from a lot of FF sites trying to sell their business. If you don't want FFTOC e-mails, opt out.

 

[blenderfrog]

what a thread...

 

[lebowski]

I was part of Sandbox back when they were going to be taken over by CBS sportsline, then the deal fell through and Sandbox was never the same. Sometimes these things can ruin good fantasy websites. I left Sandbox after that fiasco. I'd just hate to see something like that ruin FBG.Just my two cents.

I would hate to see FBG's get hurt by this too. They are the best FF website around.

 

[Bri]

I was part of Sandbox back when they were going to be taken over by CBS sportsline, then the deal fell through and Sandbox was never the same. Sometimes these things can ruin good fantasy websites. I left Sandbox after that fiasco. I'd just hate to see something like that ruin FBG.Just my two cents.

I would hate to see FBG's get hurt by this too. They are the best FF website around.

FBG has no worries or probs. Established stellarroduct, fan base, and staff.Sandbox was different. I can't recall which but they were a few games/sites before they were sandbox. One stock type game comes to mind. It wasn't long til CBS offerred to buy them. One of the owners goal was to make a product and sell it, not to do FF for a long long time. It takes its toll and most FF site owners take time off(like Dodds here) at some point. Anyhow, his plan worked pretty perfectly until the CBS thing fell thru and I'd bet big $ his heart wasn't in it anymore after that.Wallstreetsports? FBG is clearly led by DD and Joe B. They were 3 bosses with different views and mindsets a "divorce" would have always been possible.

 

[blenderfrog]

I was part of Sandbox back when they were going to be taken over by CBS sportsline, then the deal fell through and Sandbox was never the same. Sometimes these things can ruin good fantasy websites. I left Sandbox after that fiasco. I'd just hate to see something like that ruin FBG.Just my two cents.

I would hate to see FBG's get hurt by this too. They are the best FF website around.

Will never happen. FBG probably has the biggest customer base of all of the pay-FF info sites. They just need to make cleaner agreements for future business alliances. Maybe pull Capella on board as their legal counsel.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I was part of Sandbox back when they were going to be taken over by CBS sportsline, then the deal fell through and Sandbox was never the same. Sometimes these things can ruin good fantasy websites. I left Sandbox after that fiasco. I'd just hate to see something like that ruin FBG.Just my two cents.

I would hate to see FBG's get hurt by this too. They are the best FF website around.

Will never happen. FBG probably has the biggest customer base of all of the pay-FF info sites. They just need to make cleaner agreements for future business alliances. Maybe pull Capella on board as their legal counsel.

They already have legal counsel on staff.

 

[datonn]

I'm just interested now in finding out how long am I gonna have to put up with FFTOC spam mail ??I never had anything to do with them till last seasons contest ... and now I'm getting email from them on a very regular basis ... just more spam so no big deal ... but it is the principal of the thing ... they had no right glomming onto Footballguys mail list from last years contest because that was a list provided to them on a business to business transaction and they had no right's to utilize that list without Footballguys permission I would imagine !Bad Karma ... stealing from FBG's !!!

Hi Map,It is their contention that when our FBG Subscribers entered the contest, their email addresses became part of the FFTOC database. We totally disagree. You guys that know me at all know how obsessed I get when it comes to protecting our guys emails. We have NEVER EVER allowed anyone to use our guy's emails for anything. This was no different. Their claim is that by entering the contest powered by FFTOC, that you "opted in" to their system and they can send you what they like. Again, we disagree.I have asked them repeatedly to remove all of the 2005 Footballguys Subscriber Contest emails from their database. To this point, they have not complied. They say they are "their" email addresses now. It's my sincere hope that they reverse that stance and remove your guys emails from their database.J

Joe,I think it all depends upon how you and FFTOC set up your paper-trail for that contest. Actually (at first blush), I would say that if FBGs subscribers opted into a FFTOC contest, then FFTOC has strong legal grounds in which to say that people opted into their service willingly.....ESPECIALLY if there was some type of Terms and Conditions or "I agree" type of disclaimer at the front-end of the contest which described those very terms (that they would be receiving periodic email messages as a "subscriber" or participant in their service).That said, I think it is in VERY poor taste if FFTOC is not providing convenient opt-out features to their messages. If they keep it up, just have Keith do what I do with my own site: bar the IP ranges of their web servers from viewing any footballguys.com content, make sure that their email addresses are blocked from ever even hitting your "blacklist", etc., etc. In reading your message about the dissolving of the relationship, followed by their "rebuttal" (which took a much less professional/polite tone), they may actually have strong legal support for claiming that they are not "spamming" your subscribers though.......however lousy it may be to have folks receiving those emails. (?)Rooting for you guys, obviously! However, just make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you all have to end up in court over this one......

 

[Joe T]

I was part of Sandbox back when they were going to be taken over by CBS sportsline, then the deal fell through and Sandbox was never the same. Sometimes these things can ruin good fantasy websites. I left Sandbox after that fiasco. I'd just hate to see something like that ruin FBG.Just my two cents.

I would hate to see FBG's get hurt by this too. They are the best FF website around.

Will never happen. FBG probably has the biggest customer base of all of the pay-FF info sites. They just need to make cleaner agreements for future business alliances. Maybe pull Capella on board as their legal counsel.

They already have legal counsel on staff.

but not Capella.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I was part of Sandbox back when they were going to be taken over by CBS sportsline, then the deal fell through and Sandbox was never the same. Sometimes these things can ruin good fantasy websites. I left Sandbox after that fiasco. I'd just hate to see something like that ruin FBG.Just my two cents.

I would hate to see FBG's get hurt by this too. They are the best FF website around.

Will never happen. FBG probably has the biggest customer base of all of the pay-FF info sites. They just need to make cleaner agreements for future business alliances. Maybe pull Capella on board as their legal counsel.

They already have legal counsel on staff.

but not Capella.

yeah, but that would be like dropping Johnnie Cochran on them. Is that fair?