FBGs No Longer Partnered With FFTOC (1 Viewer)

[Joe T]

I would just like to add that I am totally on board with FBG. I continue to look forward to the best FF information on the net!

 

[Winston Wolfe]

I'm just interested now in finding out how long am I gonna have to put up with FFTOC spam mail ??I never had anything to do with them till last seasons contest ... and now I'm getting email from them on a very regular basis ... just more spam so no big deal ... but it is the principal of the thing ... they had no right glomming onto Footballguys mail list from last years contest because that was a list provided to them on a business to business transaction and they had no right's to utilize that list without Footballguys permission I would imagine !Bad Karma ... stealing from FBG's !!!

Hi Map,It is their contention that when our FBG Subscribers entered the contest, their email addresses became part of the FFTOC database. We totally disagree. You guys that know me at all know how obsessed I get when it comes to protecting our guys emails. We have NEVER EVER allowed anyone to use our guy's emails for anything. This was no different. Their claim is that by entering the contest powered by FFTOC, that you "opted in" to their system and they can send you what they like. Again, we disagree.I have asked them repeatedly to remove all of the 2005 Footballguys Subscriber Contest emails from their database. To this point, they have not complied. They say they are "their" email addresses now. It's my sincere hope that they reverse that stance and remove your guys emails from their database.J

I thought you and David were 50% owners?

 

[stedman]

I'm just interested now in finding out how long am I gonna have to put up with FFTOC spam mail ??I never had anything to do with them till last seasons contest ... and now I'm getting email from them on a very regular basis ... just more spam so no big deal ... but it is the principal of the thing ... they had no right glomming onto Footballguys mail list from last years contest because that was a list provided to them on a business to business transaction and they had no right's to utilize that list without Footballguys permission I would imagine !Bad Karma ... stealing from FBG's !!!

Hi Map,It is their contention that when our FBG Subscribers entered the contest, their email addresses became part of the FFTOC database. We totally disagree. You guys that know me at all know how obsessed I get when it comes to protecting our guys emails. We have NEVER EVER allowed anyone to use our guy's emails for anything. This was no different. Their claim is that by entering the contest powered by FFTOC, that you "opted in" to their system and they can send you what they like. Again, we disagree.I have asked them repeatedly to remove all of the 2005 Footballguys Subscriber Contest emails from their database. To this point, they have not complied. They say they are "their" email addresses now. It's my sincere hope that they reverse that stance and remove your guys emails from their database.J

Joe if we "opt-out" of their mail list will they honor a request from an individual? How about if 5000 of us write to them and "opt-out"

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm just interested now in finding out how long am I gonna have to put up with FFTOC spam mail ??I never had anything to do with them till last seasons contest ... and now I'm getting email from them on a very regular basis ... just more spam so no big deal ... but it is the principal of the thing ... they had no right glomming onto Footballguys mail list from last years contest because that was a list provided to them on a business to business transaction and they had no right's to utilize that list without Footballguys permission I would imagine !Bad Karma ... stealing from FBG's !!!

Hi Map,It is their contention that when our FBG Subscribers entered the contest, their email addresses became part of the FFTOC database. We totally disagree. You guys that know me at all know how obsessed I get when it comes to protecting our guys emails. We have NEVER EVER allowed anyone to use our guy's emails for anything. This was no different. Their claim is that by entering the contest powered by FFTOC, that you "opted in" to their system and they can send you what they like. Again, we disagree.I have asked them repeatedly to remove all of the 2005 Footballguys Subscriber Contest emails from their database. To this point, they have not complied. They say they are "their" email addresses now. It's my sincere hope that they reverse that stance and remove your guys emails from their database.J

Joe if we "opt-out" of their mail list will they honor a request from an individual? How about if 5000 of us write to them and "opt-out"

Hi Sted,Absolutely. All businesses that send emails (FBG included of course) are required to honor the request of the individual to be removed from the email list or database. There should be instructions on every email you receive for how to be removed from the database if you desire. We actually put two notices on the FBG mails, one at the top notifying you that instructions are at the bottom.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm just interested now in finding out how long am I gonna have to put up with FFTOC spam mail ??I never had anything to do with them till last seasons contest ... and now I'm getting email from them on a very regular basis ... just more spam so no big deal ... but it is the principal of the thing ... they had no right glomming onto Footballguys mail list from last years contest because that was a list provided to them on a business to business transaction and they had no right's to utilize that list without Footballguys permission I would imagine !Bad Karma ... stealing from FBG's !!!

Hi Map,It is their contention that when our FBG Subscribers entered the contest, their email addresses became part of the FFTOC database. We totally disagree. You guys that know me at all know how obsessed I get when it comes to protecting our guys emails. We have NEVER EVER allowed anyone to use our guy's emails for anything. This was no different. Their claim is that by entering the contest powered by FFTOC, that you "opted in" to their system and they can send you what they like. Again, we disagree.I have asked them repeatedly to remove all of the 2005 Footballguys Subscriber Contest emails from their database. To this point, they have not complied. They say they are "their" email addresses now. It's my sincere hope that they reverse that stance and remove your guys emails from their database.J

I thought you and David were 50% owners?

Hi Bass,That was our intention. But unfortunately did not work out that way.J

 

[diesel7982]

Joe,

What is FBG going to do with the MB vs Staff challenge now that you arent hosting FFTOC style games anymore?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Joe, What is FBG going to do with the MB vs Staff challenge now that you arent hosting FFTOC style games anymore?

Hi Diesel, David will figure that one out. We'll have something good I know.J

 

[BassNBrew]

I'm just interested now in finding out how long am I gonna have to put up with FFTOC spam mail ??I never had anything to do with them till last seasons contest ... and now I'm getting email from them on a very regular basis ... just more spam so no big deal ... but it is the principal of the thing ... they had no right glomming onto Footballguys mail list from last years contest because that was a list provided to them on a business to business transaction and they had no right's to utilize that list without Footballguys permission I would imagine !Bad Karma ... stealing from FBG's !!!

Hi Map,It is their contention that when our FBG Subscribers entered the contest, their email addresses became part of the FFTOC database. We totally disagree. You guys that know me at all know how obsessed I get when it comes to protecting our guys emails. We have NEVER EVER allowed anyone to use our guy's emails for anything. This was no different. Their claim is that by entering the contest powered by FFTOC, that you "opted in" to their system and they can send you what they like. Again, we disagree.I have asked them repeatedly to remove all of the 2005 Footballguys Subscriber Contest emails from their database. To this point, they have not complied. They say they are "their" email addresses now. It's my sincere hope that they reverse that stance and remove your guys emails from their database.J

I thought you and David were 50% owners?

Hi Bass,That was our intention. But unfortunately did not work out that way.J

Sorry to hear that Joe...I know you invested a lot of time and marketing (money) into the effort. I seriously considered doing the $250 promotion, but was leary of this new partnership. Really the only fantasy related product I trust is FBG.com.You need to develop your own game of skill for the FBG.com flagship and give those guys/gals at FFTOC and taste of the 800 lb gorilla in the industry. By the way, keep a close watch on Dodds...ref. his revenge thread last year.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm just interested now in finding out how long am I gonna have to put up with FFTOC spam mail ??I never had anything to do with them till last seasons contest ... and now I'm getting email from them on a very regular basis ... just more spam so no big deal ... but it is the principal of the thing ... they had no right glomming onto Footballguys mail list from last years contest because that was a list provided to them on a business to business transaction and they had no right's to utilize that list without Footballguys permission I would imagine !Bad Karma ... stealing from FBG's !!!

Hi Map,It is their contention that when our FBG Subscribers entered the contest, their email addresses became part of the FFTOC database. We totally disagree. You guys that know me at all know how obsessed I get when it comes to protecting our guys emails. We have NEVER EVER allowed anyone to use our guy's emails for anything. This was no different. Their claim is that by entering the contest powered by FFTOC, that you "opted in" to their system and they can send you what they like. Again, we disagree.I have asked them repeatedly to remove all of the 2005 Footballguys Subscriber Contest emails from their database. To this point, they have not complied. They say they are "their" email addresses now. It's my sincere hope that they reverse that stance and remove your guys emails from their database.J

I thought you and David were 50% owners?

Hi Bass,That was our intention. But unfortunately did not work out that way.J

Sorry to hear that Joe...I know you invested a lot of time and marketing (money) into the effort. I seriously considered doing the $250 promotion, but was leary of this new partnership. Really the only fantasy related product I trust is FBG.com.You need to develop your own game of skill for the FBG.com flagship and give those guys/gals at FFTOC and taste of the 800 lb gorilla in the industry. By the way, keep a close watch on Dodds...ref. his revenge thread last year.

Thanks Bass,Much appreciate the good words. And yeah, I pretty much keep Dodds guarded most all the time... J

 

[radballs]

By the way, keep a close watch on Dodds...ref. his revenge thread last year.

Dodds = De Niro as Al Capone during the board meeting in "The Untouchables"

 

[Joe Bryant]

By the way, keep a close watch on Dodds...ref. his revenge thread last year.

Dodds = De Niro as Al Capone during the board meeting in "The Untouchables"

You got it Ollie. J

 

[Cowboys#1]

so the actual product is unchanged, its just an ethical dilemma which caused Joe and David to sever ties with FFTOC.

Good..

 

[roadkill1292]

Sorry to hear that Joe...I know you invested a lot of time and marketing (money) into the effort. I seriously considered doing the $250 promotion, but was leary of this new partnership. Really the only fantasy related product I trust is FBG.com.You need to develop your own game of skill for the FBG.com flagship and give those guys/gals at FFTOC and taste of the 800 lb gorilla in the industry. By the way, keep a close watch on Dodds...ref. his revenge thread last year.

This would be awesome because, FBG's troubles with them notwithstanding, it was a very cool contest.

 

[David Dodds]

Joe, What is FBG going to do with the MB vs Staff challenge now that you arent hosting FFTOC style games anymore?

Hi Diesel, David will figure that one out. We'll have something good I know.J

We are going to use MyFantasyLeague software to run the exact contest we stated before (Scored weeks 1-16 and play a person just once).

 

[Defenze]

Another shinning example of why I stay with FBG. Joe and David strive to do the right thing. For that I applaud you. Thanks for watchin my back Joe.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

By the way, keep a close watch on Dodds...ref. his revenge thread last year.

Dodds = De Niro as Al Capone during the board meeting in "The Untouchables"

You got it Ollie. J

dodds in full blown revenge mode makes ghengis khan look like a tele-tubbie...

 

[John Mamula]

Can someone link me to the post where Joe B said that he split ties with FFTOC because they used FBG's email without permission?The only thing I read was that FBG split ties with FFTOC for "undisclosed reasons."I'm failing to see where everyone is getting the info that the unsolicited email use was the cause.TIA(just trying to get to the bottom of this)

my understanding was that the split happened before this occurred.

 

[Dreamer]

By the way, keep a close watch on Dodds...ref. his revenge thread last year.

Dodds = De Niro as Al Capone during the board meeting in "The Untouchables"

You got it Ollie. J

dodds in full blown revenge mode makes ghengis khan look like a tele-tubbie...

You could just tell he had put waaaayyyyy too much thought into some of his "tactics".He made my list of people not to mess with that day.

 

[stedman]

I'm just interested now in finding out how long am I gonna have to put up with FFTOC spam mail ??I never had anything to do with them till last seasons contest ... and now I'm getting email from them on a very regular basis ... just more spam so no big deal ... but it is the principal of the thing ... they had no right glomming onto Footballguys mail list from last years contest because that was a list provided to them on a business to business transaction and they had no right's to utilize that list without Footballguys permission I would imagine !Bad Karma ... stealing from FBG's !!!

Hi Map,It is their contention that when our FBG Subscribers entered the contest, their email addresses became part of the FFTOC database. We totally disagree. You guys that know me at all know how obsessed I get when it comes to protecting our guys emails. We have NEVER EVER allowed anyone to use our guy's emails for anything. This was no different. Their claim is that by entering the contest powered by FFTOC, that you "opted in" to their system and they can send you what they like. Again, we disagree.I have asked them repeatedly to remove all of the 2005 Footballguys Subscriber Contest emails from their database. To this point, they have not complied. They say they are "their" email addresses now. It's my sincere hope that they reverse that stance and remove your guys emails from their database.J

Joe if we "opt-out" of their mail list will they honor a request from an individual? How about if 5000 of us write to them and "opt-out"

Hi Sted,Absolutely. All businesses that send emails (FBG included of course) are required to honor the request of the individual to be removed from the email list or database. There should be instructions on every email you receive for how to be removed from the database if you desire. We actually put two notices on the FBG mails, one at the top notifying you that instructions are at the bottom.J

Thanks Joe. I checked and sure enough there it was. Wish all the folks selling watches and stock tips followed the same rules. To opt out all I had to do is send an email to support@fftoc.com with the word remove in the subject line.

 

[fatness]

Many businesses offer opt-out links, and then ignore when people choose to opt out. Many businesses also re-sell address lists they have access to. So there may be more spam emails headed to previous recipients, either from FFTOC or from other sources. It's scummy, but it happens. Scummy, sleazy, slimy, and some other "s" words.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Joe, What is FBG going to do with the MB vs Staff challenge now that you arent hosting FFTOC style games anymore?

Hi Diesel, David will figure that one out. We'll have something good I know.J

Chicken Fight to the death?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Many businesses offer opt-out links, and then ignore when people choose to opt out. Many businesses also re-sell address lists they have access to. So there may be more spam emails headed to previous recipients, either from FFTOC or from other sources. It's scummy, but it happens. Scummy, sleazy, slimy, and some other "s" words.

Exactly fatness. That's why it's so important to us that they remove your emails from their database.J

 

[Mario Kart]

Many businesses offer opt-out links, and then ignore when people choose to opt out. Many businesses also re-sell address lists they have access to. So there may be more spam emails headed to previous recipients, either from FFTOC or from other sources. It's scummy, but it happens. Scummy, sleazy, slimy, and some other "s" words.

Exactly fatness. That's why it's so important to us that they remove your emails from their database.J

At the same time by removing FBG from FFTOC, Joe and David are saying they are no longer responsible for any more spam that might be received to its members. This is one reason why I think some explanation should be given to the FBG contingent. Dont get me wrong, I am not saying full disclosure is in order but I also dont think all the email recipients read the Shark Pool either. Maybe some explanation was already given in the email sent to everybody, I really do not know, but a little more than saying "we are no longer associated with them" is a little light too.No matter what though spam is spam and I doubt anybodies email gets zero spam anyway. I do not know the extent this will go to now either. Any ideas about the auction draft of MB vs. Staff?

 

[Post Corner]

Thanks Joe. I checked and sure enough there it was. Wish all the folks selling watches and stock tips followed the same rules. To opt out all I had to do is send an email to support@fftoc.com with the word remove in the subject line.

That stinks. I hope those scums over at FFTOC haven't already sold our emails to tele-spammers. While we can unsubscribe, that only "stops" them from that moment forward... Thanks for standing up for what is right Joe. I don't fault FBG and applaud your stance. What they did stinks and is flat out wrong IMO.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Many businesses offer opt-out links, and then ignore when people choose to opt out. Many businesses also re-sell address lists they have access to. So there may be more spam emails headed to previous recipients, either from FFTOC or from other sources. It's scummy, but it happens. Scummy, sleazy, slimy, and some other "s" words.

Exactly fatness. That's why it's so important to us that they remove your emails from their database.J

At the same time by removing FBG from FFTOC, Joe and David are saying they are no longer responsible for any more spam that might be received to its members. This is one reason why I think some explanation should be given to the FBG contingent. Dont get me wrong, I am not saying full disclosure is in order but I also dont think all the email recipients read the Shark Pool either. Maybe some explanation was already given in the email sent to everybody, I really do not know, but a little more than saying "we are no longer associated with them" is a little light too.No matter what though spam is spam and I doubt anybodies email gets zero spam anyway. I do not know the extent this will go to now either. Any ideas about the auction draft of MB vs. Staff?

I believe our latest request to them will yeild a positive answer on that front. There are simply too many people that do not want to be in that database, or worse, don't even know they're in that database.I feel a very strong responsibility to rectify that for our guys. You trusted me. I have a huge responsibility there to help make this right now.J

 

[compassionate conservatives]

As an educated individual consumer (not FBG's idea) I would like to suggest the option of stopping by the North Carolina attorney general website to report how they do business.

http://www.ncdoj.com/consumerprotection/cp_about.jsp

I know Joe and David don't allow bashing of other sites on the board. If this falls into an uncomfortable area feel free to delete this post, but otherwise I can assure you that AG complaints get people's attention.

 

[Joe Bryant]

As an educated individual consumer (not FBG's idea) I would like to suggest the option of stopping by the North Carolina attorney general website to report how they do business.

http://www.ncdoj.com/consumerprotection/cp_about.jsp

I know Joe and David don't allow bashing of other sites on the board. If this falls into an uncomfortable area feel free to delete this post, but otherwise I can assure you that AG complaints get people's attention.

Hi cc,I think that's exactly the type of thing people are going to start doing if they don't own up and do the right thing. They may not listen to me. But I'm guessing they will listen to the people that they have in their database.

J

 

[lebowski]

Many businesses offer opt-out links, and then ignore when people choose to opt out. Many businesses also re-sell address lists they have access to. So there may be more spam emails headed to previous recipients, either from FFTOC or from other sources. It's scummy, but it happens. Scummy, sleazy, slimy, and some other "s" words.

Exactly fatness. That's why it's so important to us that they remove your emails from their database.J

At the same time by removing FBG from FFTOC, Joe and David are saying they are no longer responsible for any more spam that might be received to its members. This is one reason why I think some explanation should be given to the FBG contingent. Dont get me wrong, I am not saying full disclosure is in order but I also dont think all the email recipients read the Shark Pool either. Maybe some explanation was already given in the email sent to everybody, I really do not know, but a little more than saying "we are no longer associated with them" is a little light too.No matter what though spam is spam and I doubt anybodies email gets zero spam anyway. I do not know the extent this will go to now either. Any ideas about the auction draft of MB vs. Staff?

I believe our latest request to them will yeild a positive answer on that front. There are simply too many people that do not want to be in that database, or worse, don't even know they're in that database.I feel a very strong responsibility to rectify that for our guys. You trusted me. I have a huge responsibility there to help make this right now.J

Thanks Joe. I'm VERY leary of some internet business as it is. I appreciate you fighting on this one.

 

[BigTex]

As an educated individual consumer (not FBG's idea) I would like to suggest the option of stopping by the North Carolina attorney general website to report how they do business.

http://www.ncdoj.com/consumerprotection/cp_about.jsp

I know Joe and David don't allow bashing of other sites on the board. If this falls into an uncomfortable area feel free to delete this post, but otherwise I can assure you that AG complaints get people's attention.

Hi cc,I think that's exactly the type of thing people are going to start doing if they don't own up and do the right thing. They may not listen to me. But I'm guessing they will listen to the people that they have in their database.

J

Hello Joe,I don't hold you responsible. This is more than just spamming (at least in my mind), I have a (CEH) certification and done some consulting for some time and know that if the wrong person has someone's e-mail....................well it could get ugly fairly quickly. I just hope they (FFTOC) listen and take the sound advice that has been given them.

Tex

 

[IRON CHEF]

This is just anither reason why I had no problem buying the 3 year subscription! Keep up the first class ethics Joe, No one compares........Thank You!

Paul

 

[Lightning Fast Whip]

Being as it is a Fantasy Football site and game some who played will be happy to hear from I'm not sure why this is such a bad thing. IF THEY SELL list to others and all kinds of non fantasy football junk starts coming I'd "get it" ..but if more than 1% of folks with email addys don't get junk mail even non fantasy football junk mail I'd be shocked...part of having email ...I get junk mail in US Mail too..part of having a street address.

I will have to say I started participating on these boards because of Football guys becoming involved in FFTOC...so I suppose I'm a bit biased as I see FFTOC as an addition to my fantasy football fun and generally think of Fantasy Football information on "others" as things I may well be interested in and therefore don't see it as typical spam.

Just disappointed a partnership I thought would help an enjoyable & fair fantasy football format grow has dissolved/disappeared so quickly and the hope of growth to non-draft formats with significant advantages takes another kick to the groin. I expect FFTOC to still grow..but with out FBGuys partnership it seems almost impossible to expect it to grow at same rate it might have had the partnership worked out.

 

[Bri]

Joe, What is FBG going to do with the MB vs Staff challenge now that you arent hosting FFTOC style games anymore?

Hi Diesel, David will figure that one out. We'll have something good I know.J

We are going to use MyFantasyLeague software to run the exact contest we stated before (Scored weeks 1-16 and play a person just once).

sound move IMO

 

[Bri]

Being as it is a Fantasy Football site and game some who played will be happy to hear from I'm not sure why this is such a bad thing. IF THEY SELL list to others and all kinds of non fantasy football junk starts coming I'd "get it" ..but if more than 1% of folks with email addys don't get junk mail even non fantasy football junk mail I'd be shocked...part of having email ...I get junk mail in US Mail too..part of having a street address. I will have to say I started participating on these boards because of Football guys becoming involved in FFTOC...so I suppose I'm a bit biased as I see FFTOC as an addition to my fantasy football fun and generally think of Fantasy Football information on "others" as things I may well be interested in and therefore don't see it as typical spam.Just disappointed a partnership I thought would help an enjoyable & fair fantasy football format grow has dissolved/disappeared so quickly and the hope of growth to non-draft formats with significant advantages takes another kick to the groin. I expect FFTOC to still grow..but with out FBGuys partnership it seems almost impossible to expect it to grow at same rate it might have had the partnership worked out.

:violins playing:They claim to "own" the email address list. IMO if those words are even spoken you're not managing a mailing list effectively. It's all about the desire to read the email. It has nothing to do with how many emails you send. I don't think anyone here can open up their inbox and not have to delete some BS. SALE SALE SALE doesn't do anything. It doesn't annoy me, just gets deleted like all the others. Put news or some "meat" in it, then I'll open it.my .2 cents

 

[GregR_2]

Props to Joe and company for the action they've taken on this. Having trust in Joe, David, and the rest of staff, and in how they choose to run their business is a big part of why FBG's is the place to be.

 

[oldfootbal]

Joe knows that the main reason he is a class guy is that he graduated from Texas A&M. It is the typical behavior of an Aggie.

Mark

Class of '84

 

[GregR_2]

Joe knows that the main reason he is a class guy is that he graduated from Texas A&M. It is the typical behavior of an Aggie.MarkClass of '84

I think the fact he's classy despite being an Aggie is what makes it so impressive.

 

[Defending Champs]

Joe,

You have looked out for the best interest in your customer base, that is why it continues to grow and rightfully so.

Side note:

Does spam even work, I mean really, has anyone really taken one of those and purchased some half baked Rolex because the e-mail was in their junk e-mail folder? Or purchased cheap viagra due to this? I don't understand the whole thing. I guess FFTOC makes a little coin on the deal, hardly seems worth it IMO. It just makes people, more importantly their customers, angry in the long run.

Thanks again

I've been a member since the Cheatsheet days and will continue doing so while you guys continue providing a strong service that is unparalleled.

 

[GregR_2]

Joe,You have looked out for the best interest in your customer base, that is why it continues to grow and rightfully so.Side noteoes spam even work, I mean really, has anyone really taken one of those and purchased some half baked Rolex because the e-mail was in their junk e-mail folder? Or purchased cheap viagra due to this? I don't understand the whole thing. I guess FFTOC makes a little coin on the deal, hardly seems worth it IMO. It just makes people, more importantly their customers, angry in the long run.Thanks againI've been a member since the Cheatsheet days and will continue doing so while you guys continue providing a strong service that is unparalleled.

It works on the same premise as mass snail mail. It only takes like one person out of a thousand biting to pay off those... and email is much less than snail mail.Had a buddy in college who had a moment of stupidity and got taken by one of the snail mail things. I never did understand the details, but he thought he was buying a bottle or two of vitamins and instead was on the hook for a couple hundred dollars worth.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

Good move twofold. One, for standing up for what you believe in and remaining principled. Two, because that was the worst contest I've ever played in.

 

[fatness]

Does spam even work, I mean really, has anyone really taken one of those and purchased some half baked Rolex because the e-mail was in their junk e-mail folder? Or purchased cheap viagra due to this? I don't understand the whole thing. I guess FFTOC makes a little coin on the deal, hardly seems worth it IMO. It just makes people, more importantly their customers, angry in the long run.

Buying, selling, and trading lists of e-mail addresses is a part of a multi-million dollar business. Companies will pay for "leads", any leads, even if it's just a list of addresses because that gives them more people to target for sales. If less than 1% of them "bite", they've made money. Spam costs next to nothing to send, goes directly to consumers, and brings income.

 

[BigTex]

Joe knows that the main reason he is a class guy is that he graduated from Texas A&M. It is the typical behavior of an Aggie.MarkClass of '84

I think the fact he's classy despite being an Aggie is what makes it so impressive.

Joe's an Aggie :X ? (TT)

 

[Defending Champs]

Does spam even work, I mean really, has anyone really taken one of those and purchased some half baked Rolex because the e-mail was in their junk e-mail folder? Or purchased cheap viagra due to this? I don't understand the whole thing. I guess FFTOC makes a little coin on the deal, hardly seems worth it IMO. It just makes people, more importantly their customers, angry in the long run.

Buying, selling, and trading lists of e-mail addresses is a part of a multi-million dollar business. Companies will pay for "leads", any leads, even if it's just a list of addresses because that gives them more people to target for sales. If less than 1% of them "bite", they've made money. Spam costs next to nothing to send, goes directly to consumers, and brings income.

I guess my point is, why would FFTOC take the risk of losing customers to this ordeal once the news leaks out? I'd just assume, as a business owner, keep my client base happy and make less money. I think you can make more money keeping your customers happy as opposed to selling to spamers.It appears Joe and the gang have taken this approach, it looks to me like it's working.

 

[BigJim®]

I'm just interested now in finding out how long am I gonna have to put up with FFTOC spam mail ??I never had anything to do with them till last seasons contest ... and now I'm getting email from them on a very regular basis ... just more spam so no big deal ... but it is the principal of the thing ... they had no right glomming onto Footballguys mail list from last years contest because that was a list provided to them on a business to business transaction and they had no right's to utilize that list without Footballguys permission I would imagine !Bad Karma ... stealing from FBG's !!!

Hi Map,It is their contention that when our FBG Subscribers entered the contest, their email addresses became part of the FFTOC database. We totally disagree. You guys that know me at all know how obsessed I get when it comes to protecting our guys emails. We have NEVER EVER allowed anyone to use our guy's emails for anything. This was no different. Their claim is that by entering the contest powered by FFTOC, that you "opted in" to their system and they can send you what they like. Again, we disagree.I have asked them repeatedly to remove all of the 2005 Footballguys Subscriber Contest emails from their database. To this point, they have not complied. They say they are "their" email addresses now. It's my sincere hope that they reverse that stance and remove your guys emails from their database.J

Joe if we "opt-out" of their mail list will they honor a request from an individual? How about if 5000 of us write to them and "opt-out"

Hi Sted,Absolutely. All businesses that send emails (FBG included of course) are required to honor the request of the individual to be removed from the email list or database. There should be instructions on every email you receive for how to be removed from the database if you desire. We actually put two notices on the FBG mails, one at the top notifying you that instructions are at the bottom.J

This is absolutely correct. Under the "[you] CAN-SPAM" regulations they need to provide and honor an opt out even if they have an existing business relationship [EBR]. They can only rely upon the EBR for the initial email. Sorry you are in this situation Joe. I work for a company that has an unbelievably large customer file and we are constantly dealing with partners who have limited list rental rights but try to get an inordinate number of our customers to provide their info through use of free gifts and other gimmicks, creating their own EBR with a far larger portion of our client base than normal response expectations would presume. Anyone providing information after clicking on a "Free" banner is essentially partaking in that sort of business model; even if you don't do everything needed to obtain the free gift you've helped create an email file for that company which may be sold to anyone and everyone. From my experience use of clear contractual prohibitions is the only way to restrict a company from using its EBR, once created.

 

[smcindoe]

Many businesses offer opt-out links, and then ignore when people choose to opt out. Many businesses also re-sell address lists they have access to. So there may be more spam emails headed to previous recipients, either from FFTOC or from other sources. It's scummy, but it happens. Scummy, sleazy, slimy, and some other "s" words.

Not really on topic, but it's worth pointing out that what you're describing actually happens less often than people think. There's this assumption out there that companies that collect your e-mail address for a legitimate purpose are turning around and selling them to every spammer they can find. This just isn't the case (well, not often anyways).There are various levels of e-mail marketing a company will do:

- E-mail you only about your specific product or service (offer an upgrade, support, etc)

- E-mail you about one of their other products or services

- E-mail you about a partner's offer or service that's related to what you own

- Provide your e-mail to a partner, who then e-mails you about their services

In a perfect world, all of this content is relevant to you and is something you've opted in to receiving. You should also be able to unsubscribe easily, and have some expectation as to frequency.

Now, not everyone plays the game by these rules. Marketers can really stretch the whole concept of "related" products. Some sites also still use opt-out instead of opt-in -- i.e. they assume you want the e-mail unless you say otherwise, instead of assuming you don't want it.

But very few legitimate companies will straight-up sell your address to spammers. This is one of those internet myths -- People assume that when they get an e-mail from some online drug company, stock scam, body part enlarger, etc., that they got their address from a legit company. This almost never happens. These lists come from e-mail harvesters who get addresses in other ways, including crawling web sites and in many cases just random guesses.

The reason is pretty simple: volume. If you're going to sell no-name viagra over the Internet, you need to send a lot of e-mails to make any money because 99.9% of people delete this crap instantly. If you want to make any money off the tiny percentage, you need to send a lot of e-mail -- sometimes millions of addresses. These spammers are scum of the earth, but they're still in business and it's just not cost-effective to collect those addresses a few thousand at a time by buying lists from legit companies. And it wouldn't make sense for a company to sell its customers out for the fraction of a penny it could make off each name.

So long story short: if you start getting XXX-spam, it almost certainly has nothing to do with FBGs, FFTOC, or any other legitimate site you've given your address to.

 

[BigJim®]

Many businesses offer opt-out links, and then ignore when people choose to opt out. Many businesses also re-sell address lists they have access to. So there may be more spam emails headed to previous recipients, either from FFTOC or from other sources. It's scummy, but it happens. Scummy, sleazy, slimy, and some other "s" words.

Not really on topic, but it's worth pointing out that what you're describing actually happens less often than people think. There's this assumption out there that companies that collect your e-mail address for a legitimate purpose are turning around and selling them to every spammer they can find. This just isn't the case (well, not often anyways).

While I agree with your comment that larger companies are wary of subjecting their customers to spammers, I think you are being quite naive to suggest it happens rarely. Companies can't resist the revenues and often times put their customers in a position to create an EBR with unsavory companies. As one of many examples, next time you open a credit card statement take a look at the enclosed ads... credit protection clubs, free trial ginko baloba, free trial jewelry clubs, free magazines [which turn into actual paid subscriptions], etc. etc. etc. You will never have heard of any of those companies and that tells you all you need to know about how concerned they are about their reputation. They almost always ask for a phone number and email address as mandatory response fields [even though they are not needed to, for example, mail a free product to your physical address] and that data collection most definitely IS part of their business model: to collect all the non-public info they can to build a marketing file that can readily be rented out, to even more obscure companies, with absolutely no involvement/oversight from the initial "trusted" company. You're a proven responder to sleezy ads; that's about as valuable of information as could exist about you as far as sleezy marketers are concerned. But it's totally out of the original company's control at that point, whether or not their customer later requests to be placed on the initial company's own Do Not Solicit file.

 

[smcindoe]

While I agree with your comment that larger companies are wary of subjecting their customers to spammers, I think you are being quite naive to suggest it happens rarely.

The examples you list definitely happen. I'm not trying to argue that they don't.My comment was directed at pure-spam e-mail lists. I work with online marketing for a software company and as part of my job I get to observe and interact with web site users. It's amazing how often you'll see them pause at an e-mail address field on a respected web site and say something like "I don't want to give my address, they'll just sell it and I'll get XXX spam". That's a myth. I'd even go so far as to say that it never happens anymore with reputable companies.

(As you mention, reputable companies are far more sneaky in how they spam their valued customers.)

 

[fatness]

Many businesses offer opt-out links, and then ignore when people choose to opt out. Many businesses also re-sell address lists they have access to. So there may be more spam emails headed to previous recipients, either from FFTOC or from other sources. It's scummy, but it happens. Scummy, sleazy, slimy, and some other "s" words.

Not really on topic, but it's worth pointing out that what you're describing actually happens less often than people think.

Regardless of what people think, it is happening more and more all the time. As of 2 years ago 80% of all U.S. email was spam.I understand you're defending the business practices of companies that care about this (like this site does), and I agree that people and companies like that deserve to be commended. But swapping information is big business, more people do it all the time without regard for any consumer's wishes or privacy, and there's a lot of money in it.

And it's scummy.

 

[dirtyhalos]

We have recently learned that Footballguys has issued several communications criticizing FFTOC. This statement is intended to set the record straight for all concerned.

Footballguys approached FFTOC in January, 2006 to negotiate a business agreement. In April, 2006, the respective owners of Footballguys and FFTOC entered into a written agreement to let Footballguys test new marketing concepts through FFTOC and to become part owners of FFTOC. On July 15th, 2006, after working together for only three months, Footballguys failed to pay FFTOC the fourth installment payment due under their agreement. The agreement provided that if Footballguys failed to pay an installment, the business relationship between Footballguys and FFTOC would end. (On April 13, 2006, Footballguys falsely announced by e-mail and on the Footballguys.com web site that it purchased 50% of FFTOC. The agreement required Footballguys to pay the full agreed purchase price before it owned any interest in FFTOC. See also page 114 of the Footballguys 2006 Strategy Magazine.)

Because Footballguys refused to pay the agreed price in full, FFTOC is now operating free of any contractual obligations toward Footballguys.

Last year, Footballguys encouraged its subscribers to sign-up on the FFTOC website as a marketing tool. Approximately 8,000 Footballguys subscribers elected to sign-up and to participate in one or more of the FFTOC sponsored events. It was through this process and paid advertising by FFTOC to Footballguys, that Footballguys subscribers elected to become part of the FFTOC subscriber database. At no time did Footballguys place any restrictions upon the use of these e-mail addresses by FFTOC. Since the end of their business relationship, Footballguys has asserted FFTOC had no right to use these e-mail addresses in FFTOC business. Although asked to do so by FFTOC, Footballguys has either refused or been unable to produce any legal agreement restricting the use of these e-mail addresses by FFTOC.

Footballguys has recently attempted to assert that FFTOC is sending spam to its subscribers. The position of FFTOC is that e-mails sent to a lawfully obtained subscriber list are not spam. FFTOC believes these and other actions by Footballguys have resulted in the commercial defamation of FFTOC. We refuse to be threatened, harassed, or intimidated by Footballguys. If this defamation does not stop immediately, FFTOC will have no option but to seek judicial remedies against Footballguys.

Further, the FFTOC has not and never will sell your email address to another party.

Regardless of this dispute with Footballguys, we are more concerned about our relationship with our subscribers. We only want subscribers who enjoy and appreciate our product and free bonus fantasy football offerings to remain as a part of our subscriber database. If you want your e-mail address to be removed from our subscriber database, please respond to this email with the word remove in the subject line.

Best Regards,

The FFTOC Team

http://www.fftoc.com

Home of FFTOC and MyFFTOC

FFTOC - the Fairest way to Crown an Online Champion

---

More Strategy. More Control. More You.

Fantasy Tournaments LLC, NC

7474 Creedmoor Road

#128

Raleigh, NC 27613

---

To remove your email address, please respond to this email with the

word remove in the subject line

---

http://www.FFTOC.com

The Fantasy Football Tournament of Champions

i was spammed again!!!!

 

[John Mamula]

We have recently learned that Footballguys has issued several communications criticizing FFTOC. This statement is intended to set the record straight for all concerned.

Footballguys approached FFTOC in January, 2006 to negotiate a business agreement. In April, 2006, the respective owners of Footballguys and FFTOC entered into a written agreement to let Footballguys test new marketing concepts through FFTOC and to become part owners of FFTOC. On July 15th, 2006, after working together for only three months, Footballguys failed to pay FFTOC the fourth installment payment due under their agreement. The agreement provided that if Footballguys failed to pay an installment, the business relationship between Footballguys and FFTOC would end. (On April 13, 2006, Footballguys falsely announced by e-mail and on the Footballguys.com web site that it purchased 50% of FFTOC. The agreement required Footballguys to pay the full agreed purchase price before it owned any interest in FFTOC. See also page 114 of the Footballguys 2006 Strategy Magazine.)

Because Footballguys refused to pay the agreed price in full, FFTOC is now operating free of any contractual obligations toward Footballguys.

Last year, Footballguys encouraged its subscribers to sign-up on the FFTOC website as a marketing tool. Approximately 8,000 Footballguys subscribers elected to sign-up and to participate in one or more of the FFTOC sponsored events. It was through this process and paid advertising by FFTOC to Footballguys, that Footballguys subscribers elected to become part of the FFTOC subscriber database. At no time did Footballguys place any restrictions upon the use of these e-mail addresses by FFTOC. Since the end of their business relationship, Footballguys has asserted FFTOC had no right to use these e-mail addresses in FFTOC business. Although asked to do so by FFTOC, Footballguys has either refused or been unable to produce any legal agreement restricting the use of these e-mail addresses by FFTOC.

Footballguys has recently attempted to assert that FFTOC is sending spam to its subscribers. The position of FFTOC is that e-mails sent to a lawfully obtained subscriber list are not spam. FFTOC believes these and other actions by Footballguys have resulted in the commercial defamation of FFTOC. We refuse to be threatened, harassed, or intimidated by Footballguys. If this defamation does not stop immediately, FFTOC will have no option but to seek judicial remedies against Footballguys.

Further, the FFTOC has not and never will sell your email address to another party.

Regardless of this dispute with Footballguys, we are more concerned about our relationship with our subscribers. We only want subscribers who enjoy and appreciate our product and free bonus fantasy football offerings to remain as a part of our subscriber database. If you want your e-mail address to be removed from our subscriber database, please respond to this email with the word remove in the subject line.

Best Regards,

The FFTOC Team

http://www.fftoc.com

Home of FFTOC and MyFFTOC

FFTOC - the Fairest way to Crown an Online Champion

---

More Strategy. More Control. More You.

Fantasy Tournaments LLC, NC

7474 Creedmoor Road

#128

Raleigh, NC 27613

---

To remove your email address, please respond to this email with the

word remove in the subject line

---

http://www.FFTOC.com

The Fantasy Football Tournament of Champions

Interesting...

Like I said earlier, this split occurred before the e-mails were sent by FFTOC so everyone who thinks that FBG did this because FFTOC sent the email is obviously mistaken.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Just got the same email from FFTOC Staff. Sucks my email address is getting all this crap.