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Kyle Rittenhouse Trial: Defense Rests. Resisting the urge to go full HT and just purge this crapshow of a thread. (5 Viewers)

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I didn't see the testimony where he broke down until just now.  The guy is hyperventilating and can't catch his breath.  Anyone out there saying he was faking it or that they were crocodile tears is deluding themselves or has an ulterior motive.  

 
Dunno.  what's your point? 


The point is the prosecutor knew Josh Liminski's role in this and covered it up.  He dropped charges on firing the first shot and has some arson charges against him for the dumpster fire.  Binger has worked hard to separate Liminski from Rosenbaum, because if Rosenbaum was part of a group with Ziminski, he would be armed by extension and the first shot would have been fired by the attackers.   In his opening, Binger just said of Liminski, "only he knows why he fired that shot."  That's it.  The linchpin moment in this whole case and we are not even going to put him on the stand and get his side of the story.  Hell no, because the truth is not good for the prosecution in this case.  

 
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I didn't see the testimony where he broke down until just now.  The guy is hyperventilating and can't catch his breath.  Anyone out there saying he was faking it or that they were crocodile tears is deluding themselves or has an ulterior motive.  


It was some kind of panic attack/seizure.  He supposedly broken down in that state for three weeks after the shooting.  The way mainstream media and other dehumanize him is disgusting.  I hope Kyle wins this case and is able to go after every one of these major outlets for defamation and end up very rich. 

 
Stream I’m watching is absolutely destroying the defense 
Is that the Rekieta Law stream?

If so, that's what I was referring to up earlier in this thread about the provocation issue being allowed.  Defense was totally asleep at the wheel.

 
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Water is wet.

He was slandered by the President.

Clearly
Are we talking about the Biden ad where they played audio from the debate with Trump where the moderator kept asking Trump to repudiate white supremacists, and one of the images was a still photo of Rittenhouse?   I'm not aware of Biden ever actually commenting about Rittenhouse at all.  

Biden's tweet said "There’s no other way to put it: the President of the United States refused to disavow white supremacists on the debate stage last night."  

 
Can someone who understands the issue fill me in on this defense issue on the provocation instruction?   I couldn't watch anything this morning and I see a bunch of stuff on twitter saying the defense blew it or dropped an argument but I can't find anything specific.

 
Are we talking about the Biden ad where they played audio from the debate with Trump where the moderator kept asking Trump to repudiate white supremacists, and one of the images was a still photo of Rittenhouse?   I'm not aware of Biden ever actually commenting about Rittenhouse at all.  

Biden's tweet said "There’s no other way to put it: the President of the United States refused to disavow white supremacists on the debate stage last night."  


It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.  Going after the president will likely be complicated but they appear to be up to the task :  LINK

Moreover, can he also go after the media outlets. It would be rather interesting to see another individual defamed by the media harvest some cash from them.  One has to wonder how long they can reasonably afford the defamation of others for ratings.

 
Are we talking about the Biden ad where they played audio from the debate with Trump where the moderator kept asking Trump to repudiate white supremacists, and one of the images was a still photo of Rittenhouse?   I'm not aware of Biden ever actually commenting about Rittenhouse at all.  

Biden's tweet said "There’s no other way to put it: the President of the United States refused to disavow white supremacists on the debate stage last night."  


Talking about White Supremist and flashing Kyle's face on it is equating him.  What other possible message is there?

 
This was the judge's statement:

“It’s the jury’s case and I think they should make the critical decisions,” Schroeder said. “My decision will be to submit the case to the jury with the provocation instruction and you can argue the strength or lack of strength of the evidence.”

I don't see anything wrong with that, and I've said all along that the issue of provocation will be key because it raises the bar to prove self-defense.  

 
Can someone who understands the issue fill me in on this defense issue on the provocation instruction?   I couldn't watch anything this morning and I see a bunch of stuff on twitter saying the defense blew it or dropped an argument but I can't find anything specific.
non lawyer here, but my take was that the judge is allowing provocation to be considered, ie. Rittenhouse may have provoked his would be attackers and as such, the end result of them being shot would be, to some degree, his fault.  Anyone else is free to correct me.

 
Are we talking about the Biden ad where they played audio from the debate with Trump where the moderator kept asking Trump to repudiate white supremacists, and one of the images was a still photo of Rittenhouse?   I'm not aware of Biden ever actually commenting about Rittenhouse at all.  

Biden's tweet said "There’s no other way to put it: the President of the United States refused to disavow white supremacists on the debate stage last night."  
No, he specifically referred to him as a White supremecist.  I'll see if I can find the footage

 
wow, they are blowing up the defense.  Saying they'd be shocked if Rittenhouse is found not guilty.  
Yea, watching the live trial today, it was readily apparent from their comments that the defense total #### the bed allowing this provocation question in. Their argument is all based on what can be seen in the drone video, which the judge said he couldn't make out anything clearly from the first time viewing it.

 
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It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.  Going after the president will likely be complicated but they appear to be up to the task :  LINK

Moreover, can he also go after the media outlets. It would be rather interesting to see another individual defamed by the media harvest some cash from them.  One has to wonder how long they can reasonably afford the defamation of others for ratings.
How's he going to prove damages?   This is a dead end.

 
No, he specifically referred to him as a White supremecist.  I'll see if I can find the footage
Hadn't seen that.  Article today had quotes from his mom about Biden calling him a white supremacist, but then it said she was referring to that video.

 
Did the owners of the car shop run downtown to protect it?  Or did they hightail out of town once they finished removing their cars and whatever else that they valued per last week's testimony?

So your answer is no, but the question itself proves nothing since the owners did not grab a gun to run and protect it.  Those idiots (based on their testimony) were smart enough to get out of town, despite their rights.
Not sure the point you are making.  I was addressing your comment:

How would you effectively defend your property after two nights of rioting prior to the expected third night?  Grabbing a gun and running into the situation doesn't seem like the most productive way to accomplish this.

The answer to your question is that the defense of your property with a gun is not only a good answer - it worked that night.  It's immaterial whether the person holding the gun was the owner or good guys there to help him.

 
The analogy of defending “my home” “my property” or some people are just willing to defend “their home” or “their property” ect ect has been brought up time and time again so yes it is absolutely being said.  
You do know that Kenosha was Kyle Rittenhouse's second home, right?

 
If this timeline is right Biden should not have done this. TBH even after the bar meetup with these dummies I don't see that being a good role for the Prez to be taking here.
What he did there was reprehensible, not to mention entirely false.  It was in his Presidential campaign ad that I think was presented at the DNC Convention.

 
It was some kind of panic attack/seizure.  He supposedly broken down in that state for three weeks after the shooting.  The way mainstream media and other dehumanize him is disgusting.  I hope Kyle wins this case and is able to go after every one of these major outlets for defamation and end up very rich. 
Huh, he must have recovered by the time these pictures were taken of him because I don't see any signs of emotional distress in any of these pictures where he is flashing white power signs, drinking under age or smiling after the Pillow Guy helped bail him out of jail.  Do you guys see a sad kid in any of these pictures?

White Power

Can I see some ID?

Panic setting in

He met new friends!

 
Huh, he must have recovered by the time these pictures were taken of him because I don't see any signs of emotional distress in any of these pictures where he is flashing white power signs, drinking under age or smiling after the Pillow Guy helped bail him out of jail.  Do you guys see a sad kid in any of these pictures?

White Power

Can I see some ID?

Panic setting in

He met new friends!
1.  He's clearly made bad decisions.  Is this shocking for a 17 year old kid?

2.  None of what you posted has anything to do with or disproves his breakdown on the stand.  It seemed about as real as you could get to me.  

 
Huh, he must have recovered by the time these pictures were taken of him because I don't see any signs of emotional distress in any of these pictures where he is flashing white power signs, drinking under age or smiling after the Pillow Guy helped bail him out of jail.  Do you guys see a sad kid in any of these pictures?

White Power

Can I see some ID?

Panic setting in

He met new friends!


It is Wisconsin.  They don't have wimpy drinking laws.  An 18 year old can drink if they are with a parent or gardia.  

 
The point is the prosecutor knew Josh Liminski's role in this and covered it up.  He dropped charges on firing the first shot and has some arson charges against him for the dumpster fire.  Binger has worked hard to separate Liminski from Rosenbaum, because if Rosenbaum was part of a group with Ziminski, he would be armed by extension and the first shot would have been fired by the attackers.   In his opening, Binger just said of Liminski, "only he knows why he fired that shot."  That's it.  The linchpin moment in this whole case and we are not even going to put him on the stand and get his side of the story.  Hell no, because the truth is not good for the prosecution in this case.  
The importance of this can't be stated enough.  If anyone is having a hard time understanding how this trial is politically all they have to do is look at this.  The guy who fired the first shot in all of this - which likely played a huge role in all the bloodshed that followed - didn't get convicted of anything related to his firing of the gun.  Can any of the Liberals in here explain that?

 
1.  He's clearly made bad decisions.  Is this shocking for a 17 year old kid?

2.  None of what you posted has anything to do with or disproves his breakdown on the stand.  It seemed about as real as you could get to me.  


I didn't suggest anything about his breakdown on stand.  I was suggesting he must have gotten over his panic attacks/seizures that he suffered for three weeks after murdering 2 people and shooting a 3rd because in these pictures, he looks quite.....happy.  Would you agree? 

 
Yea, watching the live trial today, it was readily apparent from their comments that the defense total #### the bed allowing this provocation question in. Their argument is all based on what can be seen in the drone video, which the judge said he couldn't make out anything clearly from the first time viewing it.
That was kind of funny where they are showing the judge the video on a large monitor (55" ?) and had to show it many times and in slow motion to try and identify KR raising his rifle (pointing it at people?). 

 
I didn't suggest anything about his breakdown on stand.  I was suggesting he must have gotten over his panic attacks/seizures that he suffered for three weeks after murdering 2 people and shooting a 3rd because in these pictures, he looks quite.....happy.  Would you agree? 
Sure, the post regarding his panic attacks was in reference to his apparent breakdown on the stand.  I don't really know about when he had panic attacks, just reiterating that what I saw from him on the stand appeared to be obviously genuine, not rehearsed as has been said in here and elsewhere.

 
Sure, the post regarding his panic attacks was in reference to his apparent breakdown on the stand.  I don't really know about when he had panic attacks, just reiterating that what I saw from him on the stand appeared to be obviously genuine, not rehearsed as has been said in here and elsewhere.


Not anything I posted had anything to do with his breakdown on the stand.  

 
1.  He's clearly made bad decisions.  Is this shocking for a 17 year old kid?

2.  None of what you posted has anything to do with or disproves his breakdown on the stand.  It seemed about as real as you could get to me.  
I am the biggest defender of KR in here.  To be honest, I thought his breakdown was staged.  But it really doesn't matter.  I totally believe his Mother when she was talking last night about how traumatized he was by the events and how it screwed up his life for many months afterward.  When I was Kyle's age (I was 16 not 17) I was the victim of a pretty horrible attack where I was chased in the woods at night and thought I was going to be murdered.  I had PTSD for many years after that.

 
The importance of this can't be stated enough.  If anyone is having a hard time understanding how this trial is politically all they have to do is look at this.  The guy who fired the first shot in all of this - which likely played a huge role in all the bloodshed that followed - didn't get convicted of anything related to his firing of the gun.  Can any of the LiberalRis in here explain that?
it's completely irrelevant to the self-defense case.   The person trying to prove self-defense has to show that he or she reasonably feared imminent death or great bodily harm from his or her assailant.  Rittenhouse had to show that three times:  for Rosenbaum, Huber and Grosskuertz.  Since he didn't shoot Ziminski, there is no issue about how he felt about Ziminski firing his gun (unless he mistakenly thought it was Rosenbaum or something like that, but he testified he knew Rosenbaum didn't have a gun).

As usual, jon has the law wrong.

 
Yea, watching the live trial today, it was readily apparent from their comments that the defense total #### the bed allowing this provocation question in. Their argument is all based on what can be seen in the drone video, which the judge said he couldn't make out anything clearly from the first time viewing it.
I don't see how they could keep it out.   It's a jury question.

 
So you’re telling me he lived at a car dealership? Did he sleep on a cot in the storage room?
Where did I say the car dealership was his second home?  The point I am making is that - contrary to popular belief - KR had every reason to be in Kenosha that night, and to be an obligation to protect it.  It was his second home.  His Dad lived there at the time, his dad's family grew up there, KR had several relatives and friends there, KR worked there... My parents grew up in the Italian section of Hartford and even though I never lived there I felt a very close affinity for the area.  I would have fought for it and never thought for a minute that I shouldn't.

 
Stream I’m watching is absolutely destroying the defense 


The defense was sub par.  There was a team of top professionals ready to support Kyle.  Body language experts, jury selection experts, experienced self-defense attorneys.  They were all fired two days before the start of the trial.  Either for egos or financial greed, but Kyle was left with a few local attorneys with limited success in trial cases.  It really showed, especially in Richards who was constantly outmanuevered by Binger.  

 
The proceedings I saw today were very interesting.  I agree that Defense was asleep at the wheel.  The Judge kept asking the Defense for them to comment.  It was as if he was looking for them to give him something - anything - to rule against the provocation inclusion.  They were really, really bad.

 
The point is the prosecutor knew Josh Liminski's role in this and covered it up.  He dropped charges on firing the first shot and has some arson charges against him for the dumpster fire.  Binger has worked hard to separate Liminski from Rosenbaum, because if Rosenbaum was part of a group with Ziminski, he would be armed by extension and the first shot would have been fired by the attackers.   In his opening, Binger just said of Liminski, "only he knows why he fired that shot."  That's it.  The linchpin moment in this whole case and we are not even going to put him on the stand and get his side of the story.  Hell no, because the truth is not good for the prosecution in this case.  


I pulled the Ziminiski docket - they've charged Joshua and Kelly with 3 counts - felony arson, a disorderly conduct gun charge (likely shooting it into the air?) and a misdemeanor obstruction charge.  I don't understand the criticism about calling him or not - obviously the defense could have called him if they'd wanted his testimony.

Count no.

1943.03 Arson of Property Other Than Building Felony I

2947.01(1) Disorderly Conduct Misd. B

Modifier:  939.63(1)(a)  Use of a Dangerous Weapon

3946.41(1) Obstructing an Officer  Misd. A


https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2021CF000089&countyNo=30&index=0&mode=details

 
Some right-wing chat group published Binger's home address.   Why anyone who supports Rittenhouse would want to harm the prosecutor is a mystery.  That guy did more to get him acquitted than his defense team.

 
That was kind of funny where they are showing the judge the video on a large monitor (55" ?) and had to show it many times and in slow motion to try and identify KR raising his rifle (pointing it at people?). 
..And the judge still didnt clearly see it...even being 4 feet away from it and them slowing it down. Ridiculous

 
The point is the prosecutor knew Josh Liminski's role in this and covered it up.  He dropped charges on firing the first shot and has some arson charges against him for the dumpster fire.  Binger has worked hard to separate Liminski from Rosenbaum, because if Rosenbaum was part of a group with Ziminski, he would be armed by extension and the first shot would have been fired by the attackers.   In his opening, Binger just said of Liminski, "only he knows why he fired that shot."  That's it.  The linchpin moment in this whole case and we are not even going to put him on the stand and get his side of the story.  Hell no, because the truth is not good for the prosecution in this case.  
Why didn't the defense call him if the truth was so bad for the prosecution?

 
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