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***Official 2014 World Cup Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter NewlyRetired
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Sebowski
Footballguy
I tried to catch up switching bars earlier, but #### it. Someone let me know if I missed anything in here. Last post I read was the one I quoted and said Brazil came out firing. I'm still with that. I even had friends show up late that tried to wax poetic about German domination today that didn't see the first 2 pals. It was all over by then. Before the 1st brain fart by the defensive diarrhea that is David Luiz, the Brazilians were ready to play. Then, they broke. Credit to Germany for breaking them, but once it was 2-0 it might has well been 7-1. Thiago Silva was a bigger loss than Neymar today.
Go Argentina!
Go Argentina!
Sebowski
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
OK, rewatching the game up through 5-0....
1-0: Lots of blame to go around here. Luiz is the primary culprit, but Marcelo deserves plenty of blame here as well, as does Scolari. Marcelo's caught far too up field after taking a pass from Hulk, and is dispossessed by a combination of Khedira and Schweinsteiger, who rampage down the right side. Marcelo's able to recover and force the corner, but it could've been worse right there.
On the corner, Luiz is marking Mueller, Fernandinho is marking Klose near the goal. Klose drifts in behind Luiz, who isn't sticking closely enough to Mueller, and effectively sets a pick. By the time Luiz reacts, he cant fight past Klose (Fernandinho gets in his way too, they literally run into each other) and by then it is too late.
Cesar can't do much with it, but Marcelo is inexplicably standing inside the goal line. Seems like he could have been deployed much more effectively by Scolari on situations like this.
3 demerits: Luiz
2 demerits: Marcelo
1 demerit: Scolari
1 demerit: Fernandinho
2-0: Right before this goal, Marcelo is again caught too far upfield (22'), and Khedira starts the break through Mueller down the right side, leading to a deep throw-in.
Upon the throw in, Mueller plays a pretty simple pass to Kroos, which Fernandinho gambles on trying to intercept, and doesn't get to in time. At this point Kroos has control, is 25 yards out, and has Fernandinho on his back and the Brazil back four has no cover. He comes forward and Dante comes out to challenge him. Kroos plays a lovely ball through Dante to Mueller, who has cut in from the right (and is only being jogged after by Gustavo, who is busy watching the ball. Thanks RHE), and at the same time, Klose has darted from the 18' towards the middle of the box. Mueller controls and taps to Klose, who is merely being watched by Luiz at this point (he never even tries to hustle) and pursued by an out-of-position Maicon, who can't do much but watch. Cesar might have done a bit better here, but again most of the fault lies on the shoulders of Luiz again.
3 demerits: Luiz
3 demerits: Fernandinho
2 demerits: Gustavo
2 demerits: Dante
1 demerit: Marcelo
1 demerit: Cesar
3-0: Far too easy to penetrate again down the right side. Khedira has room in front of him up until about 25 yards, where Hulk is in front of him. Gustavo is playing way too far off him at this point, jogging in his general vicinity and giving him plenty of time to make a pass. Hulk stops tracking Lahm so he can step up to Khedira, and Marcelo is poorly positioned and too slow slow to recognize and close out on Lahm. He's nowhere near the one time pass that Lahm plays back through the box. Fernandinho is again out of position to stop Mueller who it comes to initially, but he scuffs at it. Maicon is sucked in all the way to the middle of the box, Luiz is standing hopelessly at the six, nowhere near Klose, and Bernard is slowly jogging towards the action, presumably. Kroos takes it one time and beats Cesar with a saveable shot.
2 demerits: Marcelo
2 demerits: Gustavo
2 demerits: Luiz
2 demerits: Cesar
1 demerit: Fernandinho
4-0: This one is all Fernandinho. Dante plays him a simple pass with his back to the Germans, which he handles casually, and Kroos catches him from behind, steals the ball cleanly, and is off to the races. Dante does his best, but a simple 1-2 with Khedira leaves both he and Cesar woefully out of position, leading to a simple finish for Kroos.
It should be noted that as this breakdown is happening, Luiz is slowly jogging to the action and is out of position the whole time, far off to the right. Watch a replay, it is seriously galling.
5 demerits: Fernandinho
2 demerits: Luiz
1 demerit: Dante
5-0: Luiz chips another pass forward to Germany's backline, presumably towards Hulk but its badly played. Hummels chests it down, and easily skips past Fernandinho. Inexplicably, Luiz comes all the way out to challenge him and he and Gustavo almost collide into each other, but not before Hummels slips a pass to Khedira, who breaks in with Maicon and Marcelo trailing out of position, and only poor Dante left to try and stop him. Dante challenges him effectively, but Khedira lays off a pass to Ozil on the left. Dante turns to him, and the ball is back to Khedira, alone, who puts it home. It should also be noted that Marcelo completely lost track of Mueller during this break, but he wasn't even needed.
3 demerits: Luiz
3 demerits: Fernandinho
2 demerits: Marcelo
1 demerit: Maicon
I'm assigning an additional 3 demerits to Scolari for picking such a defensive XI that lacked playmakers/ballhandlers that could've provided relief from Brazil's pressure, and two additional demerits to Cesar for not martialing his back line better. But make no mistake, this doesn't fall on Fred or Scolari, Brazil was undone by Luiz and Fernandinho primarily, with plenty of help from Marcelo. Perhaps Silva would've been able to wake them up after the first couple, but Dante wasn't Brazil's primary issue, nor was Maicon.
To provide some perspective, Fernandinho was widely considered to be the best defensive midfielder in the best domestic league this year, Manchester City won the EPL and he was rightly credited for helping their defense stay so steady. Opinions are more split on Luiz, who wasn't a first-choice CB for Mourinho at Chelsea and was sold to Paris St. Germain for the highest transfer fee ever for a defender. He takes pk's, he's capable of scoring on free kicks, and he advances forward from the CB position, which few CB's ever do. But he also isn't considered great in terms of his positioning/defensive acumen.
Marcelo is the starting LB for Real Madrid, who won the UEFA Champions League this year, and is also considered one of the best LB's in the world.
Final total:
13 demerits: Luiz
13 demerits: Fernandinho
7 demerits: Marcelo
5 demerits: Cesar
4 demerits: Scolari
4 demerits: Gustavo
3 demerits: Dante
1 demerit: Maicon
1 demerit: Bernard
1-0: Lots of blame to go around here. Luiz is the primary culprit, but Marcelo deserves plenty of blame here as well, as does Scolari. Marcelo's caught far too up field after taking a pass from Hulk, and is dispossessed by a combination of Khedira and Schweinsteiger, who rampage down the right side. Marcelo's able to recover and force the corner, but it could've been worse right there.
On the corner, Luiz is marking Mueller, Fernandinho is marking Klose near the goal. Klose drifts in behind Luiz, who isn't sticking closely enough to Mueller, and effectively sets a pick. By the time Luiz reacts, he cant fight past Klose (Fernandinho gets in his way too, they literally run into each other) and by then it is too late.
Cesar can't do much with it, but Marcelo is inexplicably standing inside the goal line. Seems like he could have been deployed much more effectively by Scolari on situations like this.
3 demerits: Luiz
2 demerits: Marcelo
1 demerit: Scolari
1 demerit: Fernandinho
2-0: Right before this goal, Marcelo is again caught too far upfield (22'), and Khedira starts the break through Mueller down the right side, leading to a deep throw-in.
Upon the throw in, Mueller plays a pretty simple pass to Kroos, which Fernandinho gambles on trying to intercept, and doesn't get to in time. At this point Kroos has control, is 25 yards out, and has Fernandinho on his back and the Brazil back four has no cover. He comes forward and Dante comes out to challenge him. Kroos plays a lovely ball through Dante to Mueller, who has cut in from the right (and is only being jogged after by Gustavo, who is busy watching the ball. Thanks RHE), and at the same time, Klose has darted from the 18' towards the middle of the box. Mueller controls and taps to Klose, who is merely being watched by Luiz at this point (he never even tries to hustle) and pursued by an out-of-position Maicon, who can't do much but watch. Cesar might have done a bit better here, but again most of the fault lies on the shoulders of Luiz again.
3 demerits: Luiz
3 demerits: Fernandinho
2 demerits: Gustavo
2 demerits: Dante
1 demerit: Marcelo
1 demerit: Cesar
3-0: Far too easy to penetrate again down the right side. Khedira has room in front of him up until about 25 yards, where Hulk is in front of him. Gustavo is playing way too far off him at this point, jogging in his general vicinity and giving him plenty of time to make a pass. Hulk stops tracking Lahm so he can step up to Khedira, and Marcelo is poorly positioned and too slow slow to recognize and close out on Lahm. He's nowhere near the one time pass that Lahm plays back through the box. Fernandinho is again out of position to stop Mueller who it comes to initially, but he scuffs at it. Maicon is sucked in all the way to the middle of the box, Luiz is standing hopelessly at the six, nowhere near Klose, and Bernard is slowly jogging towards the action, presumably. Kroos takes it one time and beats Cesar with a saveable shot.
2 demerits: Marcelo
2 demerits: Gustavo
2 demerits: Luiz
2 demerits: Cesar
1 demerit: Fernandinho
4-0: This one is all Fernandinho. Dante plays him a simple pass with his back to the Germans, which he handles casually, and Kroos catches him from behind, steals the ball cleanly, and is off to the races. Dante does his best, but a simple 1-2 with Khedira leaves both he and Cesar woefully out of position, leading to a simple finish for Kroos.
It should be noted that as this breakdown is happening, Luiz is slowly jogging to the action and is out of position the whole time, far off to the right. Watch a replay, it is seriously galling.
5 demerits: Fernandinho
2 demerits: Luiz
1 demerit: Dante
5-0: Luiz chips another pass forward to Germany's backline, presumably towards Hulk but its badly played. Hummels chests it down, and easily skips past Fernandinho. Inexplicably, Luiz comes all the way out to challenge him and he and Gustavo almost collide into each other, but not before Hummels slips a pass to Khedira, who breaks in with Maicon and Marcelo trailing out of position, and only poor Dante left to try and stop him. Dante challenges him effectively, but Khedira lays off a pass to Ozil on the left. Dante turns to him, and the ball is back to Khedira, alone, who puts it home. It should also be noted that Marcelo completely lost track of Mueller during this break, but he wasn't even needed.
3 demerits: Luiz
3 demerits: Fernandinho
2 demerits: Marcelo
1 demerit: Maicon
I'm assigning an additional 3 demerits to Scolari for picking such a defensive XI that lacked playmakers/ballhandlers that could've provided relief from Brazil's pressure, and two additional demerits to Cesar for not martialing his back line better. But make no mistake, this doesn't fall on Fred or Scolari, Brazil was undone by Luiz and Fernandinho primarily, with plenty of help from Marcelo. Perhaps Silva would've been able to wake them up after the first couple, but Dante wasn't Brazil's primary issue, nor was Maicon.
To provide some perspective, Fernandinho was widely considered to be the best defensive midfielder in the best domestic league this year, Manchester City won the EPL and he was rightly credited for helping their defense stay so steady. Opinions are more split on Luiz, who wasn't a first-choice CB for Mourinho at Chelsea and was sold to Paris St. Germain for the highest transfer fee ever for a defender. He takes pk's, he's capable of scoring on free kicks, and he advances forward from the CB position, which few CB's ever do. But he also isn't considered great in terms of his positioning/defensive acumen.
Marcelo is the starting LB for Real Madrid, who won the UEFA Champions League this year, and is also considered one of the best LB's in the world.
Final total:
13 demerits: Luiz
13 demerits: Fernandinho
7 demerits: Marcelo
5 demerits: Cesar
4 demerits: Scolari
4 demerits: Gustavo
3 demerits: Dante
1 demerit: Maicon
1 demerit: Bernard
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
Awesome synopsis GPJ. Pretty galling that those players could preform so poorly. Scolari set a lineup that had no idea how to play together.
Premier
Footballguy
@BrianMFloyd: Oh man, Brazil (via @Newseum) http://t.co/7HQ4WbMNth
@BrianMFloyd: This Brazil front page... (Via @Newseum) http://t.co/CWlcQVQngf
The front pages in Brazil are amazing today.
@BrianMFloyd: This Brazil front page... (Via @Newseum) http://t.co/CWlcQVQngf
The front pages in Brazil are amazing today.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Are Argentina and Brazil hated rivals? Would it be added humiliation for Brazil if Argentina wins it all, or woudl it be solace to them?
(Pulling for the Dutch btw).
(Pulling for the Dutch btw).
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Good stuff GPJ. Marcelo and Luiz really stuck out in real time, Fernandinho just on #4. I actually thought the line up was odd for the supposed objective of staying defensive. No need for Fred at all, leave Hulk alone up top so you get someone in MF to police the left flank. Similarly, I'd have liked to see Alves in front of Maicon in the right midfield. That's something Brazil has used before.
The Gator
Footballguy
Scolari #### the bed with his putting this team together imo. He left a lot of playmaking talent at home or on the benchHow does Brazil go this long without developing numerous #9 options. They were built on 9s and 10s. They have no 9s. At all. Not even in the immediate pipeline. How does that happen to a Brazil? That is like us not having a goalkeeper, but time a million. Fred.Fred!
Firmino
Neymar Lucas Moura
Willian Oscar
Fernandinho
Marcelo Felipe Luis Silva Alves
Bench-
Coutinho
Bernard
Hulk
Luiz
Maicon
Dante
Gustavo
The Gator
Footballguy
How mental would a third place game between those two be? I want to see Messi win it all, but that 3rd place game would be epic. A game neither team will want to play, but a team neither will want to lose
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Watching Messi lead Argentina to the Cup in Brazil would add injury to injury -- this is already the darkest day in Brazilian soccer history, and will be probably forever, but Argentina winning in the Maracana would be almost as bad.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
[sOCIAL MEDIA WATCH] With 35.6 million tweets, the Brazil-Germany match was the most-discussed single sports game ever on Twitter, smashing the previous record of 24.9 million tweets set during the 2014 Super Bowl.
Sami Khedira's goal in the 29th minute -- a record fourth German goal in six minutes and the fifth goal to cap the fastest five goals ever to start a World Cup match -- set a record for tweets per minute (580,166).
The previous record for most tweets at the 2014 World Cup was set during the Brazil-Chile match that went to a shootout: 16.4 million tweets.
Sami Khedira's goal in the 29th minute -- a record fourth German goal in six minutes and the fifth goal to cap the fastest five goals ever to start a World Cup match -- set a record for tweets per minute (580,166).
The previous record for most tweets at the 2014 World Cup was set during the Brazil-Chile match that went to a shootout: 16.4 million tweets.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Gustavo has to get demerits for goal #2. He's ball watching when Muller makes the telling run.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I would hope/assume a massive game in the World Cup generates more social media twats than our country's football championship.
B Maverick
Footballguy
I didnt see any comments on it and I realize it was already 6-0 but how did luiz escape any punishment for kicking out at Muller? He stopped turned ran at him and swung over the ball. That guy gets away with so much.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Yeah- I watched the game on DVR wiht my kids mostly jumping on me, so I didn't follow as closely as I'd normally like... but Marcelo was the guy that jumped out at me. I kept watching the Germans pour down their right wing and wonder... hmmm- Marcelo's playing in this game, right? I got the point where I just figured he was playing in the MF.
It really seemed a case of desire yesterday- the Germans made all the runs and kept their spacing. The Brazilians- almost to a man- did not. But Luiz and Fernandinho jumped out at me as guys who didn't seem like they could be bothered to make that little burst to get themselves where they needed to be.
and dammit... andy has scarred my brain with that Gonzo picture.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
lack of contact saved him. 3 inches closer and that could have been a straight red card imo.
SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
SeaDogStat
Footballguy
Excellent breakdowns, GPJ!
10 demerits to Thiago Silva for getting a stupid 2nd yellow for stepping in front of the Colombian GK...
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The Gator
Footballguy
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
I shall henceforth refer to the Brazilian national team as "Big Tahiti."
B Maverick
Footballguy
That was my first thought. But it wasnt like we went in for a bad challenge and got lucky and missed. He stopped and turned to go after Muller, with full intent. That act alone should have at least been booked. (I may have missed the booking). Seems with some of the harsh reds out there and all the people upset colombia wasnt red carded for the foul on Neymar, this seemed like an easy call.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I feel like we haven't appropriately mocked Sebowski for his "Brazil played them even for 10 whole minutes!" comments yet.
Short Corner
Footballguy
IDK how much Luiz could have done on the first goal. Klose sets up on his far shoulder screening him but he has to be concerned with the short side first as Muller steps vertically to the goal. Germany then sends two more screeners, Schweinsteiger under Klose, preventing him from cutting the gap, and Ozil over the top. Luiz needs to avoid 6 bodies to get to the far side and ultimately gets hung up on his own man marking Ozil. He is definitely not without blame, but this seems as it was more a communication/tactical error than an individual one.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I've never seen Firmino play, but I thought he is more of a #10. I remember some people thinking Adriano - CF at Shaktar - should have been included, but I think most of the noise regarding team selection was about Lucas and Coutinho.Scolari #### the bed with his putting this team together imo. He left a lot of playmaking talent at home or on the benchHow does Brazil go this long without developing numerous #9 options. They were built on 9s and 10s. They have no 9s. At all. Not even in the immediate pipeline. How does that happen to a Brazil? That is like us not having a goalkeeper, but time a million. Fred.
Firmino
Neymar Lucas Moura
Willian Oscar
Fernandinho
Marcelo Felipe Luis Silva Alves
Bench-
Coutinho
Bernard
Hulk
Luiz
Maicon
Dante
Gustavo
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Let's all pour a 40 of Cachaca out for poor Pato.I've never seen Firmino play, but I thought he is more of a #10. I remember some people thinking Adriano - CF at Shaktar - should have been included, but I think most of the noise regarding team selection was about Lucas and Coutinho.Scolari #### the bed with his putting this team together imo. He left a lot of playmaking talent at home or on the benchHow does Brazil go this long without developing numerous #9 options. They were built on 9s and 10s. They have no 9s. At all. Not even in the immediate pipeline. How does that happen to a Brazil? That is like us not having a goalkeeper, but time a million. Fred.
Firmino
Neymar Lucas Moura
Willian Oscar
Fernandinho
Marcelo Felipe Luis Silva Alves
Bench-
Coutinho
Bernard
Hulk
Luiz
Maicon
Dante
Gustavo
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
If Chile's shot late in extra time that hit the cross bar, instead goes in, and Brazil is eliminated in the round of 16, is that "better, same or worse" for the players legacy compared to what happened yesterday?
El Floppo
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Of course, you'll never, ever, hear a color guy say, "That's the problem with man marking on corners!"
El Floppo
Footballguy
are Likes on a rotating mystery schedule? I think I've used 1 or 2 this morning, and yet...
An error occurredYou have reached your quota of positive votes for the day
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I know Brazil seemed to not want any older players but I wonder if a Ronaldihno or a Kaka might have helped to have a veteran presence around? Ronaldihno is still in pretty good form at his age, winning the 2013 South American player of the year award.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I agree that it was a well run play by Germany... but teams set these plays up all the time- every corner. It's up to the defenders to react... which Luiz failed to do.
wait... are you saying that Luiz was marking Ozil? Prior to movement, I thought he was right on Mueller... no?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Short Corner
Footballguy
Naw, I was saying he got hung up on whoever was marking Ozil.
Agree he has to anticipate where his mark is going but he also has to respect the size of Muller when he makes his initial step to the short post before drifting wide over the muck.
G
Guest
Guest
Is 1-7 the worst loss in WC semifinal history?
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
One of the more amazing things about this tournament for me is how its lined up perfectly for Khadira to basically play his way back to fitness. The difference between Sami against Ghana and Sami yesterday (where he absolutely destroyed Brazil in the middle of the pitch) is night and day. And yeah, having Schweiny back there has to increase his comfort level.
Of course, it also allows them to play Lahm at the position where's he actually, you know, the best in the world. So there's that.
Of course, it also allows them to play Lahm at the position where's he actually, you know, the best in the world. So there's that.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
Bonzai
Footballguy
The Gator
Footballguy
the FBG day = last 24hr, not the current day , so some late night likes are costing you here. I've found going back and unliking any Sebowski posts help free them up
George Jefferson Airplane
Footballguy
Yeah, that would have been a tough loss but getting embarrassed like they did yesterday is much worse IMO. Unless these guys win the next World Cup, they will always be remembered as the team that embarrassed an entire country.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
To borrow from the clever Arsenal skit, milk turns faster than Dante did yesterday.
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