Public Schools are getting worse (2 Viewers)

[Ilov80s]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

No they don't think it's their fault. But they would likely agree other parents are doing a bad job and our communities aren't like they used to be and kids are too online too young and our society doesn't promote social interaction enough any more and all those things. It's like polling about Congress. If you poll people about well Congress is doing they will overwhelmingly say it's awful. If you poll people about how their local Congres person is doing, they lean strongly positive and generally choose to re-elect them.

 

[Instinctive]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

No they don't think it's their fault. But they would likely agree other parents are doing a bad job and our communities aren't like they used to be and kids are too online too young and our society doesn't promote social interaction enough any more and all those things. It's like polling about Congress. If you poll people about well Congress is doing they will overwhelmingly say it's awful. If you poll people about how their local Congres person is doing, they lean strongly positive and generally choose to re-elect them.

if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 18 months as a parent, it's that every parent thinks all the other ones are the problem and they do an amazing job.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

You disagree with me? You said here, in fewer words, the same thing I did.

 

[Ilov80s]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

No they don't think it's their fault. But they would likely agree other parents are doing a bad job and our communities aren't like they used to be and kids are too online too young and our society doesn't promote social interaction enough any more and all those things. It's like polling about Congress. If you poll people about well Congress is doing they will overwhelmingly say it's awful. If you poll people about how their local Congres person is doing, they lean strongly positive and generally choose to re-elect them.

if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 18 months as a parent, it's that every parent thinks all the other ones are the problem and they do an amazing job.

Exactly. I've been in meetings with parents of HS students who's behavior is very problematic and causing all these negative outcomes for the kid where staff is bringing up how problematic their phone use is only to hear the parents say things like, "I don't know why kids even have phones in school, they don't need them. They should be here to work and learn not be on their phones." When we then suggest not sending your kid to school with their phone then, it immediately turns into "oh well they would get mad about that, can the principal just take it from them each day or maybe each class have the teacher check it in and then return it when class is over?"

 

[djmich]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

You disagree with me? You said here, in fewer words, the same thing I did.

Ha, I was disagreeing with the part I italicized and put in blue...you were last reply in the chain.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

You disagree with me? You said here, in fewer words, the same thing I did.

Ha, I was disagreeing with the part I italicized and put in blue...you were last reply in the chain.

 

[Psychopav]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

No they don't think it's their fault. But they would likely agree other parents are doing a bad job and our communities aren't like they used to be and kids are too online too young and our society doesn't promote social interaction enough any more and all those things. It's like polling about Congress. If you poll people about well Congress is doing they will overwhelmingly say it's awful. If you poll people about how their local Congres person is doing, they lean strongly positive and generally choose to re-elect them.

if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 18 months as a parent, it's that every parent thinks all the other ones are the problem and they do an amazing job.

You're a crusty veteran, don't let anyone tell you otherwise

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

No they don't think it's their fault. But they would likely agree other parents are doing a bad job and our communities aren't like they used to be and kids are too online too young and our society doesn't promote social interaction enough any more and all those things. It's like polling about Congress. If you poll people about well Congress is doing they will overwhelmingly say it's awful. If you poll people about how their local Congres person is doing, they lean strongly positive and generally choose to re-elect them.

if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 18 months as a parent, it's that every parent thinks all the other ones are the problem and they do an amazing job.

Exactly. I've been in meetings with parents of HS students who's behavior is very problematic and causing all these negative outcomes for the kid where staff is bringing up how problematic their phone use is only to hear the parents say things like, "I don't know why kids even have phones in school, they don't need them. They should be here to work and learn not be on their phones." When we then suggest not sending your kid to school with their phone then, it immediately turns into "oh well they would get mad about that, can the principal just take it from them each day or maybe each class have the teacher check it in and then return it when class is over?"

This is the kind of person I feel like should be allowed to be punched in the throat without consequence. My parents didn't ask me to do things. They told me to do them. I am grateful they took that route.

 

[Psychopav]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

No they don't think it's their fault. But they would likely agree other parents are doing a bad job and our communities aren't like they used to be and kids are too online too young and our society doesn't promote social interaction enough any more and all those things. It's like polling about Congress. If you poll people about well Congress is doing they will overwhelmingly say it's awful. If you poll people about how their local Congres person is doing, they lean strongly positive and generally choose to re-elect them.

if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 18 months as a parent, it's that every parent thinks all the other ones are the problem and they do an amazing job.

Exactly. I've been in meetings with parents of HS students who's behavior is very problematic and causing all these negative outcomes for the kid where staff is bringing up how problematic their phone use is only to hear the parents say things like, "I don't know why kids even have phones in school, they don't need them. They should be here to work and learn not be on their phones." When we then suggest not sending your kid to school with their phone then, it immediately turns into "oh well they would get mad about that, can the principal just take it from them each day or maybe each class have the teacher check it in and then return it when class is over?"

This is the kind of person I feel like should be allowed to be punched in the throat without consequence. My parents didn't ask me to do things. They told me to do them. I am grateful they took that route.

Texas just instituted a law that k-12 public school students are not allowed to use personal communication devices during the school day. Each district is responsible for setting their own policy. Some are buying magnetically sealed and locked pouches in which students have to deposit their phones when entering school in the morning, and then they are unlocked so the kids can retrieve their phones at the end of the day. My kid's district is not requiring that, just making them keep their phones out of sight and off. The first infraction results in the phone being confiscated for the day, with rapidly escalating consequences. I feel bad for the teachers who have to police this stuff.

 

[Ilov80s]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

No they don't think it's their fault. But they would likely agree other parents are doing a bad job and our communities aren't like they used to be and kids are too online too young and our society doesn't promote social interaction enough any more and all those things. It's like polling about Congress. If you poll people about well Congress is doing they will overwhelmingly say it's awful. If you poll people about how their local Congres person is doing, they lean strongly positive and generally choose to re-elect them.

if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 18 months as a parent, it's that every parent thinks all the other ones are the problem and they do an amazing job.

Exactly. I've been in meetings with parents of HS students who's behavior is very problematic and causing all these negative outcomes for the kid where staff is bringing up how problematic their phone use is only to hear the parents say things like, "I don't know why kids even have phones in school, they don't need them. They should be here to work and learn not be on their phones." When we then suggest not sending your kid to school with their phone then, it immediately turns into "oh well they would get mad about that, can the principal just take it from them each day or maybe each class have the teacher check it in and then return it when class is over?"

This is the kind of person I feel like should be allowed to be punched in the throat without consequence. My parents didn't ask me to do things. They told me to do them. I am grateful they took that route.

Texas just instituted a law that k-12 public school students are not allowed to use personal communication devices during the school day. Each district is responsible for setting their own policy. Some are buying magnetically sealed and locked pouches in which students have to deposit their phones when entering school in the morning, and then they are unlocked so the kids can retrieve their phones at the end of the day. My kid's district is not requiring that, just making them keep their phones out of sight and off. The first infraction results in the phone being confiscated for the day, with rapidly escalating consequences. I feel bad for the teachers who have to police this stuff.

I like the idea of the law because it makes it easier for the teachers and administrators to say "hey we didn't make the rule, we just have to enforce it".

But it does create a certain traffic cop element to it. Are we going to pull over and ticket every driver who is going 2 mph over the limit? And then what are the rapidly escalating consequences? Who is enforcing all those, who is managing all the confiscated phones, etc. It's a headache no matter what approach is taken. I will say a lot of teachers just need to be more consistent about enforcing it though. If you start from day with a policy, a plan and diligently enforce it early the kids usually comply pretty well but it has to start from the first minute the kids enter your class on day 1 and you can never waiver. You got to be like The Terminator because if the kids sense any weakness they well beg, plead, negotiate, crash out and do everything they can to get you to give in.

 

[Psychopav]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

No they don't think it's their fault. But they would likely agree other parents are doing a bad job and our communities aren't like they used to be and kids are too online too young and our society doesn't promote social interaction enough any more and all those things. It's like polling about Congress. If you poll people about well Congress is doing they will overwhelmingly say it's awful. If you poll people about how their local Congres person is doing, they lean strongly positive and generally choose to re-elect them.

if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 18 months as a parent, it's that every parent thinks all the other ones are the problem and they do an amazing job.

Exactly. I've been in meetings with parents of HS students who's behavior is very problematic and causing all these negative outcomes for the kid where staff is bringing up how problematic their phone use is only to hear the parents say things like, "I don't know why kids even have phones in school, they don't need them. They should be here to work and learn not be on their phones." When we then suggest not sending your kid to school with their phone then, it immediately turns into "oh well they would get mad about that, can the principal just take it from them each day or maybe each class have the teacher check it in and then return it when class is over?"

This is the kind of person I feel like should be allowed to be punched in the throat without consequence. My parents didn't ask me to do things. They told me to do them. I am grateful they took that route.

Texas just instituted a law that k-12 public school students are not allowed to use personal communication devices during the school day. Each district is responsible for setting their own policy. Some are buying magnetically sealed and locked pouches in which students have to deposit their phones when entering school in the morning, and then they are unlocked so the kids can retrieve their phones at the end of the day. My kid's district is not requiring that, just making them keep their phones out of sight and off. The first infraction results in the phone being confiscated for the day, with rapidly escalating consequences. I feel bad for the teachers who have to police this stuff.

I like the idea of the law because it makes it easier for the teachers and administrators to say "hey we didn't make the rule, we just have to enforce it".

But it does create a certain traffic cop element to it. Are we going to pull over and ticket every driver who is going 2 mph over the limit? And then what are the rapidly escalating consequences? Who is enforcing all those, who is managing all the confiscated phones, etc. It's a headache no matter what approach is taken. I will say a lot of teachers just need to be more consistent about enforcing it though. If you start from day with a policy, a plan and diligently enforce it early the kids usually comply pretty well but it has to start from the first minute the kids enter your class on day 1 and you can never waiver. You got to be like The Terminator because if the kids sense any weakness they well beg, plead, negotiate, crash out and do everything they can to get you to give in.

I agree but that's an opportunity for the administrators who don't manage their teachers.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

North Carolina education leaders have adopted the ambitious goal of having the best public school system in the nation by 2030.

The State Board of Education approved a five-year strategic plan

Pillars of strategic plan​

The strategic plan is based on three main components. In addition to wanting to make the state's public schools the best in the nation, the other components are high academic achievement and character development.

The plan is built around eight pillars:

• Prepare Each Student for Their Next Phase in Life  - Expanding rigorous pathways, dual enrollment and character development.
• Revere Public School Educators  - Competitive compensation and career advancement opportunities
• Enhance Parent, Caregiver and Community Support – Strengthening family engagement and partnerships
• Ensure Healthy, Safe and Secure Learning Environments - Physical and emotional safety with mental health support
• Optimize Operational Excellence - Modernizing systems and eliminating administrative burdens
• Lead Transformative Change - Research-driven innovation and accountability reform
• Celebrate the Excellence in Public Education - Comprehensive messaging to highlight successes
• Galvanize Champions to Fully Invest in and Support Public Education - Building coalitions for increased investment and pride in our schools

The plan would carry out the pillars with actions such as:

• Start a new program to focus on improving foundational math skills in the early grades.
• Lobby state lawmakers to restore providing extra pay to teachers who have master's degrees.
• Partner with groups to expand school-based health services for students and staff, including telehealth.
• Establish a task force to develop a new school accountability model for assessing school performance.
• Launch a statewide reading campaign to have students read 10 million books annually.

Measuring the success of the plan​

The strategic plan has several key goals for measuring success by 2030:

• Raise the four-year high school graduation rate from 86.9 to 92%.
• Raise the ACT composite score from 18.5 to 20 . The ACT is taken by high school juniors.
• Raise the participation rate on Advancement Placement exams among 10th- through 12th-graders from 21.5% to 30%. Students take AP courses for college credit and to raise their grade point average.
• Raise the participation rate on Career Technical Education (CTE) courses among K-12 students from 36.1% to 41%.
• Raise the percentage of school-aged children enrolled in public schools from 84.5% to 89%. This percentage includes both traditional public schools and charter schools.
• Raise pay so North Carolina leads the Southeast in educator compensation.
• Raise North Carolina's performance on the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) exams given to fourth- and eighth-grade students nationally every two years. The state is scoring below 2019 levels in 8th-grade reading and math and 4th-grade reading.

This is great and all, but the NCGA is openly against at least 5 of the 8 pillars. They are more concerned about private school vouchers than actually improving conditions in the public school system.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

No they don't think it's their fault. But they would likely agree other parents are doing a bad job and our communities aren't like they used to be and kids are too online too young and our society doesn't promote social interaction enough any more and all those things. It's like polling about Congress. If you poll people about well Congress is doing they will overwhelmingly say it's awful. If you poll people about how their local Congres person is doing, they lean strongly positive and generally choose to re-elect them.

if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 18 months as a parent, it's that every parent thinks all the other ones are the problem and they do an amazing job.

Exactly. I've been in meetings with parents of HS students who's behavior is very problematic and causing all these negative outcomes for the kid where staff is bringing up how problematic their phone use is only to hear the parents say things like, "I don't know why kids even have phones in school, they don't need them. They should be here to work and learn not be on their phones." When we then suggest not sending your kid to school with their phone then, it immediately turns into "oh well they would get mad about that, can the principal just take it from them each day or maybe each class have the teacher check it in and then return it when class is over?"

This is the kind of person I feel like should be allowed to be punched in the throat without consequence. My parents didn't ask me to do things. They told me to do them. I am grateful they took that route.

Texas just instituted a law that k-12 public school students are not allowed to use personal communication devices during the school day. Each district is responsible for setting their own policy. Some are buying magnetically sealed and locked pouches in which students have to deposit their phones when entering school in the morning, and then they are unlocked so the kids can retrieve their phones at the end of the day. My kid's district is not requiring that, just making them keep their phones out of sight and off. The first infraction results in the phone being confiscated for the day, with rapidly escalating consequences. I feel bad for the teachers who have to police this stuff.

Here's a good example. Very similar thing happening here in FL. My pops? Gave my younger brother two options. Leave the phone in the car or take it into school, but locked down only to access emergency calls during school.

 

[RCon]

But it does create a certain traffic cop element to it. Are we going to pull over and ticket every driver who is going 2 mph over the limit? And then what are the rapidly escalating consequences? Who is enforcing all those, who is managing all the confiscated phones, etc. It's a headache no matter what approach is taken. I will say a lot of teachers just need to be more consistent about enforcing it though. If you start from day with a policy, a plan and diligently enforce it early the kids usually comply pretty well but it has to start from the first minute the kids enter your class on day 1 and you can never waiver. You got to be like The Terminator because if the kids sense any weakness they well beg, plead, negotiate, crash out and do everything they can to get you to give in.

I'm not sure if it's state law/policy or just the local high school policy, but last year they started a no phone policy in class. There's a cell phone "locker" on every door where kids put their phones when they walk in and they collect their phones on the way out. Teachers say it worked great.

 

[Max Power]

North Carolina education leaders have adopted the ambitious goal of having the best public school system in the nation by 2030.

The State Board of Education approved a five-year strategic plan

Pillars of strategic plan​

The strategic plan is based on three main components. In addition to wanting to make the state's public schools the best in the nation, the other components are high academic achievement and character development.

The plan is built around eight pillars:

• Prepare Each Student for Their Next Phase in Life  - Expanding rigorous pathways, dual enrollment and character development.
• Revere Public School Educators  - Competitive compensation and career advancement opportunities
• Enhance Parent, Caregiver and Community Support – Strengthening family engagement and partnerships
• Ensure Healthy, Safe and Secure Learning Environments - Physical and emotional safety with mental health support
• Optimize Operational Excellence - Modernizing systems and eliminating administrative burdens
• Lead Transformative Change - Research-driven innovation and accountability reform
• Celebrate the Excellence in Public Education - Comprehensive messaging to highlight successes
• Galvanize Champions to Fully Invest in and Support Public Education - Building coalitions for increased investment and pride in our schools

The plan would carry out the pillars with actions such as:

• Start a new program to focus on improving foundational math skills in the early grades.
• Lobby state lawmakers to restore providing extra pay to teachers who have master's degrees.
• Partner with groups to expand school-based health services for students and staff, including telehealth.
• Establish a task force to develop a new school accountability model for assessing school performance.
• Launch a statewide reading campaign to have students read 10 million books annually.

Measuring the success of the plan​

The strategic plan has several key goals for measuring success by 2030:

• Raise the four-year high school graduation rate from 86.9 to 92%.
• Raise the ACT composite score from 18.5 to 20 . The ACT is taken by high school juniors.
• Raise the participation rate on Advancement Placement exams among 10th- through 12th-graders from 21.5% to 30%. Students take AP courses for college credit and to raise their grade point average.
• Raise the participation rate on Career Technical Education (CTE) courses among K-12 students from 36.1% to 41%.
• Raise the percentage of school-aged children enrolled in public schools from 84.5% to 89%. This percentage includes both traditional public schools and charter schools.
• Raise pay so North Carolina leads the Southeast in educator compensation.
• Raise North Carolina's performance on the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) exams given to fourth- and eighth-grade students nationally every two years. The state is scoring below 2019 levels in 8th-grade reading and math and 4th-grade reading.

This is great and all, but the NCGA is openly against at least 5 of the 8 pillars. They are more concerned about private school vouchers than actually improving conditions in the public school system.

School vouchers might have been counter productive in my opinion. Its following the same path as student loans. My youngest attends a private Christian school and the rates increased substantially over the last year once government assistance became available.

It could be the school though. It also looks to be morphing into more of prep school vs religious school. They're getting big into recruiting kids for athletics now and that's a whole separate can of worms.

 

[rockaction]

It’s Jonathan Haidt. Parents and educators wanted to get rid of the phone scourge but lacked . . . wherewithal (?) and a good plan. They kept failing. He sort of galvanized the amorphous consensus into a coherently tailored plan and was explicitly arguing its urgency. This might be The Free Press but he pushed the pile over the goal line.

How Jonathan Haidt Won the Fight Against Smartphones in Schools

His book has gained bipartisan fans from Barack Obama to Bill Gates to Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Olivia Reingold reports on the Haidt effect.

www.thefp.com

 

[JohnnyU]

It’s Jonathan Haidt. Parents and educators wanted to get rid of the phone scourge but lacked . . . wherewithal (?) and a good plan. They kept failing. He sort of galvanized the amorphous consensus into a coherently tailored plan and was explicitly arguing its urgency. This might be The Free Press but he pushed the pile over the goal line.

How Jonathan Haidt Won the Fight Against Smartphones in Schools

His book has gained bipartisan fans from Barack Obama to Bill Gates to Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Olivia Reingold reports on the Haidt effect.

www.thefp.com

Smartphones in the classroom was dumb from the beginning. I raised my granddaughter and that was an issue for her and attention in high school. It's my fault for allowing her to take the phone to school in the first place. I wish they wouldn't have allowed students to have them in the classroom. That way she could still have it between classes and at lunch, but not in the classroom, where she is supposed to be paying attention.

 

[beer 30]

Lot of educators in this thread, tell me if this is normal. I was kinda shocked when I heard it.

Scenario - routine fire drill. Two children in a class have a condition where fire drills cause heightened anxiety so special ed teacher has to come to room, put noise cancelling headphones on the kids and escort them out.

Y'all ever heard of something that? Is this the new normal?

 

[Joe Schmo]

Lot of educators in this thread, tell me if this is normal. I was kinda shocked when I heard it.

Scenario - routine fire drill. Two children in a class have a condition where fire drills cause heightened anxiety so special ed teacher has to come to room, put noise cancelling headphones on the kids and escort them out.

Y'all ever heard of something that? Is this the new normal?

Sounds like an effective strategy as there are people out there with sensory stimulation issues and if ear phones help these students cope then it's a plus. Also, it may be part of an IEP or other learning plan designed for these particular students.

 

[beer 30]

Lot of educators in this thread, tell me if this is normal. I was kinda shocked when I heard it.

Scenario - routine fire drill. Two children in a class have a condition where fire drills cause heightened anxiety so special ed teacher has to come to room, put noise cancelling headphones on the kids and escort them out.

Y'all ever heard of something that? Is this the new normal?

Sounds like an effective strategy as there are people out there with sensory stimulation issues and if ear phones help these students cope then it's a plus. Also, it may be part of an IEP or other learning plan designed for these particular students.

Yes, it's all of the above, IEP with the sensory stimulation issue.

How does this work in actual emergency?

 

[Joe Schmo]

Lot of educators in this thread, tell me if this is normal. I was kinda shocked when I heard it.

Scenario - routine fire drill. Two children in a class have a condition where fire drills cause heightened anxiety so special ed teacher has to come to room, put noise cancelling headphones on the kids and escort them out.

Y'all ever heard of something that? Is this the new normal?

Sounds like an effective strategy as there are people out there with sensory stimulation issues and if ear phones help these students cope then it's a plus. Also, it may be part of an IEP or other learning plan designed for these particular students.

Yes, it's all of the above, IEP with the sensory stimulation issue.

How does this work in actual emergency?

According to my sister, a paraeducator, it works the same way in real time as it does during a drill. If there is an alarm for any reason and the students need to take emergency action, the in class para or other staff with knowledge of the IEP will go to the students and put the headsets on to keep them calm and keep them moving. It becomes rote which is one benefit of the drills.

 

[Joe Schmo]

I gotta tell you, it's amazing how far we've come in world of primary and secondary education where inclusivity of those with differing abilities is now possible thanks to so many thoughtful strategies that never existed back in my day. I'm an old fart in my late 50's and I remember the short bus and also recall the cruel nicknames I and my fellow classmates referred to those who rode them, we were pretty awful even if we didn't know we were at the time.

 

[beer 30]

Lot of educators in this thread, tell me if this is normal. I was kinda shocked when I heard it.

Scenario - routine fire drill. Two children in a class have a condition where fire drills cause heightened anxiety so special ed teacher has to come to room, put noise cancelling headphones on the kids and escort them out.

Y'all ever heard of something that? Is this the new normal?

Sounds like an effective strategy as there are people out there with sensory stimulation issues and if ear phones help these students cope then it's a plus. Also, it may be part of an IEP or other learning plan designed for these particular students.

Yes, it's all of the above, IEP with the sensory stimulation issue.

How does this work in actual emergency?

According to my sister, a paraeducator, it works the same way in real time as it does during a drill. If there is an alarm for any reason and the students need to take emergency action, the in class para or other staff with knowledge of the IEP will go to the students and put the headsets on to keep them calm and keep them moving. It becomes rote which is one benefit of the drills.

I wonder if they try to put the students in the same room. Imagine if you have a few of these sprinkled throughout the school and only one or two folks who can assist?

 

[Joe Bryant]

It’s Jonathan Haidt. Parents and educators wanted to get rid of the phone scourge but lacked . . . wherewithal (?) and a good plan. They kept failing. He sort of galvanized the amorphous consensus into a coherently tailored plan and was explicitly arguing its urgency. This might be The Free Press but he pushed the pile over the goal line.

How Jonathan Haidt Won the Fight Against Smartphones in Schools

His book has gained bipartisan fans from Barack Obama to Bill Gates to Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Olivia Reingold reports on the Haidt effect.

www.thefp.com

Yes. He's been on this for a good while.

Thought this was interesting.

Jonathan Haidt on Instagram: "Testimonials are coming in from teachers about their newly #phonefreeschools and the amazing things that students are now doing — like taking notes, completing their assignments, and talking to each other. “Was it this

305K likes, 12K comments - jonathanhaidt on August 12, 2025: "Testimonials are coming in from teachers about their newly #phonefreeschools and the amazing things that students are now doing — like taking notes, completing their assignments, and talking to each other. “Was it this easy of a...

www.instagram.com

 

[Joe Schmo]

Lot of educators in this thread, tell me if this is normal. I was kinda shocked when I heard it.

Scenario - routine fire drill. Two children in a class have a condition where fire drills cause heightened anxiety so special ed teacher has to come to room, put noise cancelling headphones on the kids and escort them out.

Y'all ever heard of something that? Is this the new normal?

Sounds like an effective strategy as there are people out there with sensory stimulation issues and if ear phones help these students cope then it's a plus. Also, it may be part of an IEP or other learning plan designed for these particular students.

Yes, it's all of the above, IEP with the sensory stimulation issue.

How does this work in actual emergency?

According to my sister, a paraeducator, it works the same way in real time as it does during a drill. If there is an alarm for any reason and the students need to take emergency action, the in class para or other staff with knowledge of the IEP will go to the students and put the headsets on to keep them calm and keep them moving. It becomes rote which is one benefit of the drills.

I wonder if they try to put the students in the same room. Imagine if you have a few of these sprinkled throughout the school and only one or two folks who can assist?

In elementary school students are often kept together throughout the day so each classroom teacher and assistant knows which students need what accommodations. Once in middle and high, every teacher is given notice of students with learning plans and how they are to implement them but the students are also encouraged and pushed to start taking responsibility for themselves. Again, I am second hand familiar with some of this stuff but this is my understanding of how it works.

 

[beer 30]

Lot of educators in this thread, tell me if this is normal. I was kinda shocked when I heard it.

Scenario - routine fire drill. Two children in a class have a condition where fire drills cause heightened anxiety so special ed teacher has to come to room, put noise cancelling headphones on the kids and escort them out.

Y'all ever heard of something that? Is this the new normal?

Sounds like an effective strategy as there are people out there with sensory stimulation issues and if ear phones help these students cope then it's a plus. Also, it may be part of an IEP or other learning plan designed for these particular students.

Yes, it's all of the above, IEP with the sensory stimulation issue.

How does this work in actual emergency?

According to my sister, a paraeducator, it works the same way in real time as it does during a drill. If there is an alarm for any reason and the students need to take emergency action, the in class para or other staff with knowledge of the IEP will go to the students and put the headsets on to keep them calm and keep them moving. It becomes rote which is one benefit of the drills.

I wonder if they try to put the students in the same room. Imagine if you have a few of these sprinkled throughout the school and only one or two folks who can assist?

In elementary school students are often kept together throughout the day so each classroom teacher and assistant knows which students need what accommodations. Once in middle and high, every teacher is given notice of students with learning plans and how they are to implement them but the students are also encouraged and pushed to start taking responsibility for themselves. Again, I am second hand familiar with some of this stuff but this is my understanding of how it works.

Thanks for the feedback, appreciate the info on this

Was genuinely curious how this works during a situation. There are so many kids with IEP's in school now, like almost every one in my daughters class has something going on.

 

[Zow]

Maybe consider prioritizing outcomes over outputs when it comes to teacher performance? This is a "teach to learn" vs "teach to the test" kind of decision.

I think the goals that were trying to be reached by standardizing weren't really met and were a last gasp at saving the socioeconomically disadvantaged. There's a whole lot of policy to talk about w/r/t to the pros and cons of testing/not testing and the "teach to the test" came about because there were communities turning out students that couldn't function and who were passed through the system as if the system's function wasn't to educate but to be a day care or a political instrument.

It's a tough debate. The autonomy of "teach to learn" can be abused. And this made strange bedfellows. It's actually one side of the aisle you wouldn't think that used to push for the SATs and that pushed No Child Left Behind. If you look up its history, it's interesting.

If I keep going, I'll have a nice long vacation from this place. I'll just say this. The bold is one of the things few talk about. If I sit back and think about the things that are wrong with education, it's not that they are being ignored. I think people fully recognize what the problems are. We don't talk about them though and instead we try to come up with solutions that appear to solve the problem, but don't really address the core problem(s) so it makes me happy when I see even small acknowledgements like yours here. "The problems" we have really aren't going to be able to be addressed in the classrooms in a meaningful way. They need to be addressed in community and society as a whole.

Yeah, I don't think that is controversial at all. Schools are a reflection of their community. Schools and teachers play a role but they can only do so much with that they are given. If you are a chef and your kitchen manager keeps giving you low quality cuts of meat, out of season fruits, freezer burned fish, etc. is it really the chef's fault that the food is mediocre? Cooking, running a restaurant, etc. is always hard work and requires a lot of attention to detail, multi-tasking, wearing many hats, etc. However, the end results are going to be much better with locally grown produce, waygu steaks and fresh fish brought in right from the boats. You want to fix the schools, fix the community.

If not controversial and everyone agrees, why do you believe they continue to ignore the underlying problem(s) with their faux attempts at addressing "education"? I'd love to believe that most don't think its controversial, but I see no real evidence to back that up. Most actions seem to point towards the opposite.

I'd disagree and believe many do think its controversial to suggest its anything other than the teachers, the facilities, or the curriculum. You think most parents think its their fault?

No they don't think it's their fault. But they would likely agree other parents are doing a bad job and our communities aren't like they used to be and kids are too online too young and our society doesn't promote social interaction enough any more and all those things. It's like polling about Congress. If you poll people about well Congress is doing they will overwhelmingly say it's awful. If you poll people about how their local Congres person is doing, they lean strongly positive and generally choose to re-elect them.

if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 18 months as a parent, it's that every parent thinks all the other ones are the problem and they do an amazing job.

Like drivers on the road or putters on the golf course.

 

[Joe Bryant]

FWIW, I shared the no phone video with a friend of mine who teaches in Nashville.

She replied,

We’ve been on a no phones kick for three years now, and it’s awesome.

 

[Sand]

Yes. He's been on this for a good while.

Thought this was interesting.

Jonathan Haidt on Instagram: "Testimonials are coming in from teachers about their newly #phonefreeschools and the amazing things that students are now doing — like taking notes, completing their assignments, and talking to each other. “Was it this

305K likes, 12K comments - jonathanhaidt on August 12, 2025: "Testimonials are coming in from teachers about their newly #phonefreeschools and the amazing things that students are now doing — like taking notes, completing their assignments, and talking to each other. “Was it this easy of a...

www.instagram.com

Folks disparage Alabama, but they did good here.

 

[MAC_32]

North Carolina education leaders have adopted the ambitious goal of having the best public school system in the nation by 2030.

The State Board of Education approved a five-year strategic plan

Pillars of strategic plan​

The strategic plan is based on three main components. In addition to wanting to make the state's public schools the best in the nation, the other components are high academic achievement and character development.

The plan is built around eight pillars:

• Prepare Each Student for Their Next Phase in Life  - Expanding rigorous pathways, dual enrollment and character development.
• Revere Public School Educators  - Competitive compensation and career advancement opportunities
• Enhance Parent, Caregiver and Community Support – Strengthening family engagement and partnerships
• Ensure Healthy, Safe and Secure Learning Environments - Physical and emotional safety with mental health support
• Optimize Operational Excellence - Modernizing systems and eliminating administrative burdens
• Lead Transformative Change - Research-driven innovation and accountability reform
• Celebrate the Excellence in Public Education - Comprehensive messaging to highlight successes
• Galvanize Champions to Fully Invest in and Support Public Education - Building coalitions for increased investment and pride in our schools

The plan would carry out the pillars with actions such as:

• Start a new program to focus on improving foundational math skills in the early grades.
• Lobby state lawmakers to restore providing extra pay to teachers who have master's degrees.
• Partner with groups to expand school-based health services for students and staff, including telehealth.
• Establish a task force to develop a new school accountability model for assessing school performance.
• Launch a statewide reading campaign to have students read 10 million books annually.

Measuring the success of the plan​

The strategic plan has several key goals for measuring success by 2030:

• Raise the four-year high school graduation rate from 86.9 to 92%.
• Raise the ACT composite score from 18.5 to 20 . The ACT is taken by high school juniors.
• Raise the participation rate on Advancement Placement exams among 10th- through 12th-graders from 21.5% to 30%. Students take AP courses for college credit and to raise their grade point average.
• Raise the participation rate on Career Technical Education (CTE) courses among K-12 students from 36.1% to 41%.
• Raise the percentage of school-aged children enrolled in public schools from 84.5% to 89%. This percentage includes both traditional public schools and charter schools.
• Raise pay so North Carolina leads the Southeast in educator compensation.
• Raise North Carolina's performance on the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) exams given to fourth- and eighth-grade students nationally every two years. The state is scoring below 2019 levels in 8th-grade reading and math and 4th-grade reading.

This is great and all, but the NCGA is openly against at least 5 of the 8 pillars. They are more concerned about private school vouchers than actually improving conditions in the public school system.

School vouchers might have been counter productive in my opinion. Its following the same path as student loans. My youngest attends a private Christian school and the rates increased substantially over the last year once government assistance became available.

It could be the school though. It also looks to be morphing into more of prep school vs religious school. They're getting big into recruiting kids for athletics now and that's a whole separate can of worms.

Our data starts streaming in soon and won't be final until October, but that's generally not been the case with our network. Met with a high school today- their avg out of pocket pre voucher was ~$3500, now it's under $2K. Our K-8 schools are less. Sure the sticker price is up, but 'right size towards your cost to educate while keeping tuition affordable' has been our message and to this point we haven't had any major issues. For reference we have 106 schools in our network and legislation expanded access July 2023.

 

[Ilov80s]

This certainly isn't the right place to put this but I am not starting a new thread for this but also felt like I had to tell the story:

A 14 year old freshman girl in my class started choking today and I performed the heimlich on her in class and I guess saved her life or whatever. It was intense and it felt like minutes that I was performing it, so much I felt like I was almost needing to tag out. Obviously was not nearly that long. I don't think my form was good at all and it probably could have resolved earlier if I had been better at it. But yeah it was wild. Some kids got my attention a student was choking, I turned around and you could tell she was struggling to breathe. I just went behind her and started. Then I was like oh ****, stand up. There was another teacher in the room but he was kind of oblivious to it so I had to yell to him while I was trying to do the heimlich "hey call the office" and i told 2 kids to run to the office/security for help. Security did a good job clearing the room of the kids and the kids were all super good. Thank god she finally swallowed it and started speaking because I was pretty scared. Ultimately it was a jolly rancher and probably wasn't totally blocking her airwave and I am not even sure I did anything effective, but I tried. And so yes she is totally fine. Got checked out by the paramedics and went home with mom. She was smiling about it in the end. She said she will never have a grape jolly rancher again.

Here is the funny part. The teacher started class with a little exercise where he wrote some silly stuff on cards and kids who volunteered had to act it out (ELA lesson about descriptive language and how a walk isn't just a walk , etc). She is a quiet shy kid but she was one of 4 who volunteered to stand up infront of class and act some stuff out. She asked me before for some suggestions on how to do it. She did great and commented to me that she usually doesn't do stuff like that but it just sounded fun and she wants to try new things. After of course I praised her so much for doing a great job and stretching herself. What was the reward the teacher passed out to the 4 kids who volunteered? A jolly rancher.

 

[El Floppo]

I thought for sure that was ending in abuse charges against you.

Good for you, 80s- your quick thinking and action saved that kid.

 

[Navin Johnson]

This certainly isn't the right place to put this but I am not starting a new thread for this but also felt like I had to tell the story:

A 14 year old freshman girl in my class started choking today and I performed the heimlich on her in class and I guess saved her life or whatever. It was intense and it felt like minutes that I was performing it, so much I felt like I was almost needing to tag out. Obviously was not nearly that long. I don't think my form was good at all and it probably could have resolved earlier if I had been better at it. But yeah it was wild. Some kids got my attention a student was choking, I turned around and you could tell she was struggling to breathe. I just went behind her and started. Then I was like oh ****, stand up. There was another teacher in the room but he was kind of oblivious to it so I had to yell to him while I was trying to do the heimlich "hey call the office" and i told 2 kids to run to the office/security for help. Security did a good job clearing the room of the kids and the kids were all super good. Thank god she finally swallowed it and started speaking because I was pretty scared. Ultimately it was a jolly rancher and probably wasn't totally blocking her airwave and I am not even sure I did anything effective, but I tried. And so yes she is totally fine. Got checked out by the paramedics and went home with mom. She was smiling about it in the end. She said she will never have a grape jolly rancher again.

Here is the funny part. The teacher started class with a little exercise where he wrote some silly stuff on cards and kids who volunteered had to act it out (ELA lesson about descriptive language and how a walk isn't just a walk , etc). She is a quiet shy kid but she was one of 4 who volunteered to stand up infront of class and act some stuff out. She asked me before for some suggestions on how to do it. She did great and commented to me that she usually doesn't do stuff like that but it just sounded fun and she wants to try new things. After of course I praised her so much for doing a great job and stretching herself. What was the reward the teacher passed out to the 4 kids who volunteered? A jolly rancher.

All heroes don't wear capes. Well done GB

 

[Ilov80s]

I thought for sure that was ending in abuse charges against you.

Good for you, 80s- your quick thinking and action saved that kid.

I suppose it’s possible I go into work today and her mom wants to press charges or something but I would be shocked. She’s a nice kid and we have a good rapport. I went to check on her in the office after the paramedics evaluated her. Mom shook my hand and thanked me, the student and I shared a laugh about the irony of the situation and I told her it was still a good thing she did trying something new and she shouldn’t take the choking thing to be some kind of sign. It was just a random accident.

Tying it all back into the thread here, the public school response was good. Security was in the room in less than 20 seconds to help coach me through it, clear the other kids out of the room. Our school emergency medical support team was there in probably a little over a minute. Our fellow public union firefighters arrived in less than 5 minutes to check her out. Immediately after the incident a counselor was in the room to talk with the class about what happened. We debriefed after about what went well, what could be improved on. The other kids in the room were awesome. They attentive, followed directions, assisted without hesitation when asked.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

This certainly isn't the right place to put this but I am not starting a new thread for this but also felt like I had to tell the story:

A 14 year old freshman girl in my class started choking today and I performed the heimlich on her in class and I guess saved her life or whatever. It was intense and it felt like minutes that I was performing it, so much I felt like I was almost needing to tag out. Obviously was not nearly that long. I don't think my form was good at all and it probably could have resolved earlier if I had been better at it. But yeah it was wild. Some kids got my attention a student was choking, I turned around and you could tell she was struggling to breathe. I just went behind her and started. Then I was like oh ****, stand up. There was another teacher in the room but he was kind of oblivious to it so I had to yell to him while I was trying to do the heimlich "hey call the office" and i told 2 kids to run to the office/security for help. Security did a good job clearing the room of the kids and the kids were all super good. Thank god she finally swallowed it and started speaking because I was pretty scared. Ultimately it was a jolly rancher and probably wasn't totally blocking her airwave and I am not even sure I did anything effective, but I tried. And so yes she is totally fine. Got checked out by the paramedics and went home with mom. She was smiling about it in the end. She said she will never have a grape jolly rancher again.

Here is the funny part. The teacher started class with a little exercise where he wrote some silly stuff on cards and kids who volunteered had to act it out (ELA lesson about descriptive language and how a walk isn't just a walk , etc). She is a quiet shy kid but she was one of 4 who volunteered to stand up infront of class and act some stuff out. She asked me before for some suggestions on how to do it. She did great and commented to me that she usually doesn't do stuff like that but it just sounded fun and she wants to try new things. After of course I praised her so much for doing a great job and stretching herself. What was the reward the teacher passed out to the 4 kids who volunteered? A jolly rancher.

Glad you were there and ready @Ilov80s!

I worked at a small private Christian school in the 90’s. Had a kid (9th grader) come up to me at lunch struggling and I realized he was choking. I started the heimlich but my arms were higher on him and I wasn’t getting the proper response. I found out later from a trained EMT that my hands should have been near his belly button and mine were under his rib cage. He said I probably could have broken his ribs.

At first the lunch room thought we were wrestling, fighting or horse playing until I yelled to call 911 because he was turning blue.

Finally, he coughed up a chunk of sandwich. He said he had taken a bite and a kid made him laugh and he sucked it down his throat.

What I did eventually worked but I wasn’t prepared as I should have been.

It still was a surreal feeling - to “save” someone’s life!

The rest of the lunch period was really quiet. Female students were crying and coming up to me telling me I was a hero and hugging me. Male students were high fiving me. The choking kid finished his sandwich and his buddies sandwich as they didn’t want to eat.

 

[Ilov80s]

This certainly isn't the right place to put this but I am not starting a new thread for this but also felt like I had to tell the story:

A 14 year old freshman girl in my class started choking today and I performed the heimlich on her in class and I guess saved her life or whatever. It was intense and it felt like minutes that I was performing it, so much I felt like I was almost needing to tag out. Obviously was not nearly that long. I don't think my form was good at all and it probably could have resolved earlier if I had been better at it. But yeah it was wild. Some kids got my attention a student was choking, I turned around and you could tell she was struggling to breathe. I just went behind her and started. Then I was like oh ****, stand up. There was another teacher in the room but he was kind of oblivious to it so I had to yell to him while I was trying to do the heimlich "hey call the office" and i told 2 kids to run to the office/security for help. Security did a good job clearing the room of the kids and the kids were all super good. Thank god she finally swallowed it and started speaking because I was pretty scared. Ultimately it was a jolly rancher and probably wasn't totally blocking her airwave and I am not even sure I did anything effective, but I tried. And so yes she is totally fine. Got checked out by the paramedics and went home with mom. She was smiling about it in the end. She said she will never have a grape jolly rancher again.

Here is the funny part. The teacher started class with a little exercise where he wrote some silly stuff on cards and kids who volunteered had to act it out (ELA lesson about descriptive language and how a walk isn't just a walk , etc). She is a quiet shy kid but she was one of 4 who volunteered to stand up infront of class and act some stuff out. She asked me before for some suggestions on how to do it. She did great and commented to me that she usually doesn't do stuff like that but it just sounded fun and she wants to try new things. After of course I praised her so much for doing a great job and stretching herself. What was the reward the teacher passed out to the 4 kids who volunteered? A jolly rancher.

Glad you were there and ready @Ilov80s!

I worked at a small private Christian school in the 90’s. Had a kid (9th grader) come up to me at lunch struggling and I realized he was choking. I started the heimlich but my arms were higher on him and I wasn’t getting the proper response. I found out later from a trained EMT that my hands should have been near his belly button and mine were under his rib cage. He said I probably could have broken his ribs.

At first the lunch room thought we were wrestling, fighting or horse playing until I yelled to call 911 because he was turning blue.

Finally, he coughed up a chunk of sandwich. He said he had taken a bite and a kid made him laugh and he sucked it down his throat.

What I did eventually worked but I wasn’t prepared as I should have been.

It still was a surreal feeling - to “save” someone’s life!

The rest of the lunch period was really quiet. Female students were crying and coming up to me telling me I was a hero and hugging me. Male students were high fiving me. The choking kid finished his sandwich and his buddies sandwich as they didn’t want to eat.

Yeah I wasn’t totally sure I was doing it right either. I’ve practiced a bunch of times on dummies but a real person in the moment it is different. It all worked out in the end and I’ll probably never have to do it again but now I actually feel prepared if it did happen again. Glad your situation also worked itself out. I found out from the response team after that the person who choked should not eat or drink anything until being evaluated by medical professionals because it is possible to be choking, have it or part of it dislodged but still be in your throat and later in the day it settles back into your throat and you choke again.

 

[Chadstroma]

I thought for sure that was ending in abuse charges against you.

Good for you, 80s- your quick thinking and action saved that kid.

100% was thinking the same

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I thought for sure that was ending in abuse charges against you.

Good for you, 80s- your quick thinking and action saved that kid.

100% was thinking the same

Same. Kinda sad

 

[Chadstroma]

My daughter is at the local HS as a freshman. So far, it seems to be an absolute great fit for her. She just finished up playing volleyball for the season. Watching her, she had more connection and was more engaged with her teammates than I have seen her on any team either club or school before. Her public self seems to have blossomed more- where as before, she wasn't exactly a wallflower but not exactly a social butterfly either. I saw one of her closest friends Moms at a flag football game (watching my niece and her daughter is on the team too) and she asked me "what did you do to her?" and she went on to explain that before she would barely talk to her and now.... I cut her off and said "we can't shut her up." She was the first of her friends to get asked to HOCO and now the boy is her first boyfriend.

She is doing mostly good at school with grades, one C in math which isn't overly surprising but doing well in the one honors class I had her do. Her recommendations for all of her classes were all under honors which I attribute largely to laziness but we can pick the classes. I wanted her to take a couple of honors classes or an AP in social studies (not the name of the class but I can't remember what it was). We talked it through and she was worried about being overwhelmed and I was worried about the learning curve of going from a small Catholic school to a large public school so we decided on the one honors class and then "add" more next year.

She was planning on playing basketball but she is doing club volleyball too and is worried about it being too much. I am really letting her make the decision which she basically needs to make now as tryouts for basketball (which she is slated to tryout for JV) and club vball evaluations are next week.

Negative wise the only minor thing I saw was after a semi-final vball tournament loss she 'crashed out' about the other team having both their A and B teams. She dropped an F bomb and I looked at her with a "wha?" look and she said sorry.... then again. I gave her playful tap on the face like a faux slap. And she did it a third time. Laughing. She would NEVER have done this before and it clearly was the influence of the public school. Other than that.... the kid that thought themselves a dog and had a leash, and water bowl etc graduated and I haven't heard from her about anything weird like that or seen anything from being on campus for sports stuff.

Still unsure of where my boys will go- my older son wants to go to one of the Catholic HS options.... I believe mostly because most of his friends are expecting to go there. He has about a year and a half to figure it out. I am less against the public school option from my daughters experience so far.

 

[Ilov80s]

I thought for sure that was ending in abuse charges against you.

Good for you, 80s- your quick thinking and action saved that kid.

100% was thinking the same

Same. Kinda sad

Luckily that thought never entered my mind. Though it was of course kind of awkward.

 

[msudaisy26]

I thought for sure that was ending in abuse charges against you.

Good for you, 80s- your quick thinking and action saved that kid.

100% was thinking the same

Same. Kinda sad

Luckily that thought never entered my mind. Though it was of course kind of awkward.

Pretty sure you are exempt under the good Samaritan law.

 

[acarey50]

I thought for sure that was ending in abuse charges against you.

Good for you, 80s- your quick thinking and action saved that kid.

100% was thinking the same

Same. Kinda sad

Luckily that thought never entered my mind. Though it was of course kind of awkward.

Pretty sure you are exempt under the good Samaritan law.

This - we are taught this in our CPR/First aid training, otherwise no one would ever perform CPR for fear of being sued for trying to save a life. When done properly, CPR will break ribs, etc.

 

[Ilov80s]

I thought for sure that was ending in abuse charges against you.

Good for you, 80s- your quick thinking and action saved that kid.

100% was thinking the same

Same. Kinda sad

Luckily that thought never entered my mind. Though it was of course kind of awkward.

Pretty sure you are exempt under the good Samaritan law.

They still could try to take action saying was negligent or had intentionally groped her in the process. An accusation like that might not end up with me in jail or having to pay damages but could still destroy my life.

 

[Ilov80s]

But that’s not the case so doesn’t matter. She came to school today but was uncomfortable about being in class so she was working in a quiet spot in the office. I stopped and saw her a few times, we bonded over the event and of course she thanked me. She also said she hadn’t eaten since then because she was scared so I got her some snacks and was able to get her to eat. I have a feeling she will be my little buddy for at least the rest of the year. She did say while at the hospital after they discovered she has a heart defect of some sort. So I guess this might end you being a good thing in the long run. Anyway real sweet kid and glad I was able to help her.

 

[the moops]

Sounds like public schools are getting better because of heroes like our buddy @Ilov80s
Well done!!