"I'm Done Making My Kid's Childhood Magical" (1 Viewer)

[Thunderlips]

I have a friend who is increasingly becoming extremely kid-centric.

His kid is 12 (the youngest of three - by a lot. The other two are in their 20's). This kid is extremely infantile and needy. He's rude, unpleasant, fat, pasty... the type of kid who never had to lift a finger to do anything, ever. The mother dotes on him like he's an infant (it's bizarre/disturbing to see their dynamic, actually). Of course, they think their kid is brilliant/gifted (he's not). This kid is never left alone, and it seems he'll be 18 before his parents will ever leave him for even a minute.

Anyway, predictably, this kid has zero neighborhood friends. My friend says it's because all of the other kids are a-holes, but it's clear to me that it's because the kid is a jerk, plain and simple. In fact, he's getting worse - to the point where my wife says "he isn't coming here anymore", and I kind of don't blame her (whenever we get together, my wife gets stuck with my friends wife and the attached kid)

The one and only thing this kid does is play Pokémon. So my friend takes him to a store an hour away to play... and this has been increasing as the kid gets older. They go 3-4 times a week, and all day Sat (and sometimes Sun.) Every family trip they take are to Pokémon events only. They go to DC for a weekend, and it's Pokémon, and nothing else. They never leave the hotel where the event is. My friend and his wife are 100% of that kid's entertainment.

My friend puts on the "I'm being a good parent" face, but when we have a few drinks (which is becoming increasingly rare), it's clear he doesn't like the astounding amount of time spent doing this, and isn't happy. It's also clear that "well, why don't you do xyz" comments aren't really welcome. The kid is getting his pokemon time whenever he wishes, and that's that.

I feel bad, because I'm definitely losing my friend, and also because I know he isn't enjoying his life.

No point to this except to vent. I don't have kids myself, so maybe I just don't "get" it, but it just seems excessive to me.

I, for one applaud that dedication. He'll be getting D-1 and Ivy offers for Pokemon teams in two years. Don't #### this up for them.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

It seems that the pendulum may finally be swinging back in the opposite direction of overbearing, helicopter parenting.

We have lots of parents here. How many of you feel like you have to "entertain" your kids? What do you see with other parents you know? It may just be me, but reading these thoughts put down on paper echo a lot of thoughts I have about today's kids and I really enjoyed reading it.

ETA -- Here's the link

Almost never. Unless by "entertain" you mean me making them get me more beer from the fridge.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

I remember when I started coaching Little League, the parents would drop kids off and ask what time they would be done. That was mid 90s. I remember the last few years I coached, say around 2005, there would be parents in the stands during the first practice and I would have the kids run a lap around the outfield then walk over and say - you've got two free hours, get out of here, take advantage. Worked the first couple times, but by the last year, it was 75% of the parents, and I think the peer pressure was too much. They wouldn't leave. Still amazes me. We talkin bout PRACTICE!

My dad told me that parents didn't even go to the games when he was in LL. Dylan will be 8 this year, I think he can manage practice on his own from now on.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Good news, just learned my neighbor has volunteered to be assistant coach of the basketball team our sons both play for, meaning he'll be driving to every practice (Monday night) and game (Saturday) this winter and all we have to do is drop him off at their house. I'll definitely try to be there for at least a few of the games. Now I've just got to deal with soccer practices Tuesday nights and weekend games, speed skating twice a week and skiing lessons on Sundays.

 

[cstu]

I have a friend who is increasingly becoming extremely kid-centric.

His kid is 12 (the youngest of three - by a lot. The other two are in their 20's). This kid is extremely infantile and needy. He's rude, unpleasant, fat, pasty... the type of kid who never had to lift a finger to do anything, ever. The mother dotes on him like he's an infant (it's bizarre/disturbing to see their dynamic, actually). Of course, they think their kid is brilliant/gifted (he's not). This kid is never left alone, and it seems he'll be 18 before his parents will ever leave him for even a minute.

Anyway, predictably, this kid has zero neighborhood friends. My friend says it's because all of the other kids are a-holes, but it's clear to me that it's because the kid is a jerk, plain and simple. In fact, he's getting worse - to the point where my wife says "he isn't coming here anymore", and I kind of don't blame her (whenever we get together, my wife gets stuck with my friends wife and the attached kid)

The one and only thing this kid does is play Pokémon. So my friend takes him to a store an hour away to play... and this has been increasing as the kid gets older. They go 3-4 times a week, and all day Sat (and sometimes Sun.) Every family trip they take are to Pokémon events only. They go to DC for a weekend, and it's Pokémon, and nothing else. They never leave the hotel where the event is. My friend and his wife are 100% of that kid's entertainment.

My friend puts on the "I'm being a good parent" face, but when we have a few drinks (which is becoming increasingly rare), it's clear he doesn't like the astounding amount of time spent doing this, and isn't happy. It's also clear that "well, why don't you do xyz" comments aren't really welcome. The kid is getting his pokemon time whenever he wishes, and that's that.

I feel bad, because I'm definitely losing my friend, and also because I know he isn't enjoying his life.

No point to this except to vent. I don't have kids myself, so maybe I just don't "get" it, but it just seems excessive to me.

Your friend is not 'kid-centric', he's a '####ty parent'.

 

[gianmarco]

It seems that the pendulum may finally be swinging back in the opposite direction of overbearing, helicopter parenting.

We have lots of parents here. How many of you feel like you have to "entertain" your kids? What do you see with other parents you know? It may just be me, but reading these thoughts put down on paper echo a lot of thoughts I have about today's kids and I really enjoyed reading it.

ETA -- Here's the link

Almost never. Unless by "entertain" you mean me making them get me more beer from the fridge.

I guess if you turn it into a game.....

 

[BobbyLayne]

Walked in for a one on one today my boss was finishing up a call to his wife:

"I'll shoot Jack (aside - lax coach) a note. He probably got caught up in the game and didn't realize JJ hadn't been in the game yet. Naw, he'll appreciate it, I've made the same mistake. It's simple - we're paying $3K a year to be on the travel team, we have every right to expect PT. We'll be getting D-1 and Ivy offers in two years. In not gonna let him #### this up for us."

The kid is 12.

Your boss needs to be punched.

Or pranked. Wait two years, then cold call him from your Ivy League school of choice scouting his son.

I didn't convey the tone. This was said in such a measured & matter of fact manner. I'll handle this so the message is clear & unambiguous.

Backstory - he was a D1 athlete & thinks his slow footed chubby seventh grader is on the same trajectory.

He's actually a very decent boss, but suffice to say we have a slightly different world view.

 

[Sabertooth]

There is a radio commercial running in the DC area for SunTrust Mortgage with the voice of a dad saying he spent two days building a castle in the backyard for his daughters birthday party and his wife spent 2 days baking a special cake because they "want everything perfect" for their little princess but now that he has a SunTrust Mortgage on his new McMansion his daughter thinks she's living in a castle.

Makes me want to uke: everytime I hear it.

Seriously? What kind of super mom takes two days to bake a ####### cake. I can install a kitchen in two days.

 

[jwb]

I have a friend who is increasingly becoming extremely kid-centric.

His kid is 12 (the youngest of three - by a lot. The other two are in their 20's). This kid is extremely infantile and needy. He's rude, unpleasant, fat, pasty... the type of kid who never had to lift a finger to do anything, ever. The mother dotes on him like he's an infant (it's bizarre/disturbing to see their dynamic, actually). Of course, they think their kid is brilliant/gifted (he's not). This kid is never left alone, and it seems he'll be 18 before his parents will ever leave him for even a minute.

Anyway, predictably, this kid has zero neighborhood friends. My friend says it's because all of the other kids are a-holes, but it's clear to me that it's because the kid is a jerk, plain and simple. In fact, he's getting worse - to the point where my wife says "he isn't coming here anymore", and I kind of don't blame her (whenever we get together, my wife gets stuck with my friends wife and the attached kid)

The one and only thing this kid does is play Pokémon. So my friend takes him to a store an hour away to play... and this has been increasing as the kid gets older. They go 3-4 times a week, and all day Sat (and sometimes Sun.) Every family trip they take are to Pokémon events only. They go to DC for a weekend, and it's Pokémon, and nothing else. They never leave the hotel where the event is. My friend and his wife are 100% of that kid's entertainment.

My friend puts on the "I'm being a good parent" face, but when we have a few drinks (which is becoming increasingly rare), it's clear he doesn't like the astounding amount of time spent doing this, and isn't happy. It's also clear that "well, why don't you do xyz" comments aren't really welcome. The kid is getting his pokemon time whenever he wishes, and that's that.

I feel bad, because I'm definitely losing my friend, and also because I know he isn't enjoying his life.

No point to this except to vent. I don't have kids myself, so maybe I just don't "get" it, but it just seems excessive to me.

I, for one applaud that dedication. He'll be getting D-1 and Ivy offers for Pokemon teams in two years. Don't #### this up for them.

all kidding aside, my friend has also used the "scholarship money" as justification as well.

There is actually Pokémon-sponsored scholarship $$ out there.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Walked in for a one on one today my boss was finishing up a call to his wife:

"I'll shoot Jack (aside - lax coach) a note. He probably got caught up in the game and didn't realize JJ hadn't been in the game yet. Naw, he'll appreciate it, I've made the same mistake. It's simple - we're paying $3K a year to be on the travel team, we have every right to expect PT. We'll be getting D-1 and Ivy offers in two years. In not gonna let him #### this up for us."

The kid is 12.

Your boss needs to be punched.

Or pranked. Wait two years, then cold call him from your Ivy League school of choice scouting his son.

I didn't convey the tone. This was said in such a measured & matter of fact manner. I'll handle this so the message is clear & unambiguous.

Backstory - he was a D1 athlete & thinks his slow footed chubby seventh grader is on the same trajectory.

He's actually a very decent boss, but suffice to say we have a slightly different world view.

Sorry - reading that the guy thinks his son is going to be getting scholarship offers as a sophomore while riding the pine on his 12 yr. old traveling team just seemed right out of the "douchey-sports parent" handbook.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Amazing stories in this thread. The thing about practice cracks me up. See this every weekend in non-sport activities: ballet, Mandarin, Jazz Choir. They're in another room, unseen. These are NOT toddlers. You've got 60-90 minutes to chill, run errands, shop, whatever. And I'm the only parent at each class to slap it high and walk out of there, while they sit there staring at their mobile device.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Walked in for a one on one today my boss was finishing up a call to his wife:

"I'll shoot Jack (aside - lax coach) a note. He probably got caught up in the game and didn't realize JJ hadn't been in the game yet. Naw, he'll appreciate it, I've made the same mistake. It's simple - we're paying $3K a year to be on the travel team, we have every right to expect PT. We'll be getting D-1 and Ivy offers in two years. In not gonna let him #### this up for us."

The kid is 12.

Your boss needs to be punched.

Or pranked. Wait two years, then cold call him from your Ivy League school of choice scouting his son.

I didn't convey the tone. This was said in such a measured & matter of fact manner. I'll handle this so the message is clear & unambiguous.Backstory - he was a D1 athlete & thinks his slow footed chubby seventh grader is on the same trajectory.

He's actually a very decent boss, but suffice to say we have a slightly different world view.

Sorry - reading that the guy thinks his son is going to be getting scholarship offers as a sophomore while riding the pine on his 12 yr. old traveling team just seemed right out of the "douchey-sports parent" handbook.

Well no ####. I was just saying he's alright to work for, but if I had to coach his kids? Oh hell no.ETA - oh, and he thinks his kid will be getting offers as a freshman...because that's what his Alma Mater is doing. "Hey, Binky - four years from now, the spot is open if you want it."

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

It seems that the pendulum may finally be swinging back in the opposite direction of overbearing, helicopter parenting.

We have lots of parents here. How many of you feel like you have to "entertain" your kids? What do you see with other parents you know? It may just be me, but reading these thoughts put down on paper echo a lot of thoughts I have about today's kids and I really enjoyed reading it.

ETA -- Here's the link

Almost never. Unless by "entertain" you mean me making them get me more beer from the fridge.

I guess if you turn it into a game.....

When I was a kid, my dad would ask, "Do you want to do something together?" I would of course answer "YES!". And he would say, "Great! You go get me a beer, and I'll drink it!"

 

[AAABatteries]

People are talking about different things in here, probably because the original piece was a bit of a mess.

Baking or buying a ridiculous birthday cake for your one-year-old's birthday party, so you can post it on facebook, seems stupid to me. Playing with your kids doesn't. The parents that make the giant cake aren't necessarily the same parents that play with their kids.

Yeah. It seems that a bunch of not entirely related things are being complained of. Some complaints seem valid with respect to parents who seem to use kids as accessories.

I'm not sure that extends to taking a family vacation.

The sports team stuff is interesting to me considering how much I love soccer. Chances are my kid will be at best an average athlete like I was, so I won't need to worry about it. But if the kid is good, do I have to shuttle him all up down the freakin Eastern Seaboard or worry that I'm screwing him out of a scholarship? I hope not.

The sports thing is one part of it. Family vacation is another (and I agree with you that I don't think it extends). But then there's the other everyday stuff.

My son and his classmates just had their 2 weeks of winter vacation from school. I know that not an insignificant # of kids were out doing daily things with their parents like one day ice skating and another day the science center and another day something else, etc. We see it on Facebook. There are families that plan something for their kids most any time they aren't in school or in some activity. It's not possible to just be home and play, at least not as the norm. We went out for an activity one day last week and the rest he spent home just being a kid and entertaining himself even when I was available and not working. There are parents out there who feel they aren't being a good enough parent if they're home while they're kids are home and not actively spending time with them.

Great thread. I struggle with this at times and worry I go too far in the direction of not entertaining them. We have 4 kids though so they entertain each other most of the time. I could easily see this being really tough if you only have one kid (maybe two).

 

[AAABatteries]

And the sports practice thing is ridiculous. Most coaches don't want you there anyway as it can be a distraction for some kids. I told my wife the other day I'm not sitting around watching every practice - even if I could. I do like watching some of the practices to see how the coaches interact with the kids but my kids haven't reached HS sports age where you probably aren't welcome.

 

[AAABatteries]

Social media has allowed people to frame their lives to their public and craft the image they want to portray. Whether it be the picture of their vacation, new car, food, fabulous experience.. etc... people are all about highlighting the good parts of their life to make sure other people think their life is better than it often times is.

This is a good point and one of the many reasons I'm not on any social media.

 

[comfortably numb]

Social media has allowed people to frame their lives to their public and craft the image they want to portray. Whether it be the picture of their vacation, new car, food, fabulous experience.. etc... people are all about highlighting the good parts of their life to make sure other people think their life is better than it often times is.

This is a good point and one of the many reasons I'm not on any social media.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/2ZJYP/i-unfriend-you/image.png

 

[Garrett]

brohans get your kids outside take them to a nature preserve and wade around in a river with them get them muddy have them chase frogs and catch lightnin bugs and bait a hook and catch a bluegill just do whatever you can to get them out of the basement and away from the atari just take my word for this they will grow up better people and it all it takes is you walking along with them and acting surprised when they find a clam shell in a lake or something hell by the time they are ten they will be laying face down on a pier looking over the edge at fish and you will be one hell of a parent take that to the bank brochachos

Seems like as good a segue / hijack opportunity as any. We let our 9-year old walk down to one of our county's nature centers by himself. It's less than 1/4 of a mile and he doesn't have to cross any streets. They folks at the center know him well and we've both checked in to be sure he's behaving, but for the most part he flies solo and it's basically a chance to learn more about all the local wildlife (which we also see around the house a lot) and get to do some fun stuff in the woods/around the pond.

People act like we've taped a "please kidnap me" sign to his chest and chained him to a tree out front. Are we crazy?

http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/stranger-child-abductions-actually-very-rare-130514.htm

Child abductions are a real threat, but the risk should be kept in perspective to avoid unnecessarily alarming parents and children. In his book Protecting the Gift, child-safety expert Gavin De Becker pointed out that compared to a stranger kidnapping, “ child is vastly more likely to have a heart attack, and child heart attacks are so rare that most parents (correctly) never even consider the risk.”

 

[AAABatteries]

The one and only thing this kid does is play Pokémon. So my friend takes him to a store an hour away to play... and this has been increasing as the kid gets older. They go 3-4 times a week, and all day Sat (and sometimes Sun.) Every family trip they take are to Pokémon events only. They go to DC for a weekend, and it's Pokémon, and nothing else. They never leave the hotel where the event is. My friend and his wife are 100% of that kid's entertainment.

http://i.giphy.com/CBUG8AwHUsLsY.gif

(Totally stole this from Tom in the yoga pants thread)

 

[EYLive]

www.nokids.com

 

[Capella]

How about everybody just raise their kids they way they want to and #### what everybody else thinks.

 

[chauncey]

No kids here, but a good buddy was telling me last week about his trip to Florida with his two kids last summer. He said they went to Disney World, Legoland, some other park, and the beach. After the trip he asked them what their favorite part was and they both said the day at the beach.

 

[Jobber]

No kids here, but a good buddy was telling me last week about his trip to Florida with his two kids last summer. He said they went to Disney World, Legoland, some other park, and the beach. After the trip he asked them what their favorite part was and they both said the day at the beach.

Ha yeah, my kids are the same. We dropped $500 just to get in the gate at Magic Kingdom two years ago. 20 minutes into the park and they were asking if we could go back to the hotel and swim.

 

[Otis]

I think she has a decent point.

 

[mr roboto]

No kids here, but a good buddy was telling me last week about his trip to Florida with his two kids last summer. He said they went to Disney World, Legoland, some other park, and the beach. After the trip he asked them what their favorite part was and they both said the day at the beach.

BUT THE MEMORIEZZZZZ!!!!! MAGIC KINGDOM!!!!!!!!

 

[Jayrod]

The only places I really want to take my kids are Washington DC, NYC, and Yellowstone NP. Roller coaster parks can be cool, but they are everywhere and I have three within 3 hours of here. Have no desire to do any Disney parks.

 

[DropKick]

at the notion that parenting has substantially changed over the course of a generation or two and even more that things have gotten worse. There will always be good parents and there will always be bad parents. There will always be overbearing parents and neglectful parents.

Same as day one.

How old are you? This couldn't be more off base...

 

[shuke]

Great thread.

 

[AAABatteries]

No kids here, but a good buddy was telling me last week about his trip to Florida with his two kids last summer. He said they went to Disney World, Legoland, some other park, and the beach. After the trip he asked them what their favorite part was and they both said the day at the beach.

BUT THE MEMORIEZZZZZ!!!!! MAGIC KINGDOM!!!!!!!!

Just don't think that everyone who goes to Disney feels this - I don't give a damn where you go on vacation.

 

[Zow]

at the notion that parenting has

substantially changed over the course of a generation or two and even more that things have gotten worse. There will always be good parents and there will always be bad

parents. There will always be overbearing parents and neglectful parents.

Same as day one.

How old are you? This couldn't be more off

base...

62Care to explain why it's off-base?

 

[Mr. Pickles]

at the notion that parenting has substantially changed over the course of a generation or two and even more that things have gotten worse. There will always be good parents and there will always be bad parents. There will always be overbearing parents and neglectful parents.

Same as day one.

Woz wore a leash.

 

[Judge Smails]

Very interesting topic.

Like others have said - it was SO different back when I was a kid. I would wake up in the morning, make myself a bowl of cereal, huddle up with kids in the neighborhood, ride our bikes to the park to play baseball (leagues or over the line), basketball, football, board games, swim at the public pool, whatever. If I had a buck in quarters I could get a chili dog and a coke for lunch. Only rule was have my ### home by dark for dinner. No calling in, no checking in, nothing. Just be home by dinner. I don't remember any parents at practices, and the percentage of parents at games compared to now was no more than 40-50%.

I often rode my bike to school for basketball practices at 6:30am in 7th grade because that was the only time our team had the gym. We weren't given rides everywhere like today.

It wasn't necessarily a more innocent time. There were just as many creepers back then as there are now. We just weren't as protected. Right or wrong - that's just the way it is.

I also believe that as much as I love my Mom I think her generation of parenting will go down as one of the worst. They were either selfish, blind or indifferent. Divorce rates skyrocketed and many parents put their wants/desires ahead of their kids. I also think that a good chunk of that generation of parents are living with a ton of regret right now. General statement I know. But I really believe that. Many kids I know were like me - left to fend for themselves. Some good came out of it. Work ethic. I faked a work permit so I could get a job and ride 2 buses to downtown LA for minimum wage at 14. I paid for everything beyond a roof over my head from 16 on. Moved out at 18. Self reliance. Again, some positives.

That being said, I didn't want that for my kids. I got zero guidance. Zero help. So my wife and I have been much more involved in our kids live. At least aware. Many parents of my generation had no freakin' idea what was going on, what we are doing, or frankly didn't care. And we all went to those houses to party. We paid attention. I think they did grow up safer because of that. I coached baseball, we were involved in school fund raisers etc. As far as making their childhood "magical", I think we did that. They are telling us that now. But not in the ways that most think. It wasn't about over the top birthday parties or trying to compete with what money could buy (I'm just an average FBG but surrounded by serious wealth -talking people that can burn Chet-like cash for kindling in their fireplaces). We made our kids childhood magical by being there. By having family meals at the table every day. By allowing them to grow up with occasional stumbles but offering guidance the entire way. The only "magic" I tried to create was with memories with family vacations. Big believer in that, and I do believe it made our family even tighter.

Great topic. I'm actually in the next phase of my life. My kids have the foundation they need. Now I'm trying to ensure that the next chapter for me and Mrs. Smails is magical.

 

[AAABatteries]

Couple of thoughts:

- I don't really know what "magical" really even means. It's not something that I think you can define in this context

- My own opinion is that parents are responsible for some basic things and I wouldn't say making life magical is one of them. The list does include love them, feed them, clothe them, make them feel secure, help them with their education, teach them life lessons about health, money, personal responsibility, work ethic, being content, helping others

The key component in doing most of those things is being with them and spending time with them - that's magical in my book and doesn't require entertaining them.

 

[Sabertooth]

Very interesting topic.

Like others have said - it was SO different back when I was a kid. I would wake up in the morning, make myself a bowl of cereal, huddle up with kids in the neighborhood, ride our bikes to the park to play baseball (leagues or over the line), basketball, football, board games, swim at the public pool, whatever. If I had a buck in quarters I could get a chili dog and a coke for lunch. Only rule was have my ### home by dark for dinner. No calling in, no checking in, nothing. Just be home by dinner. I don't remember any parents at practices, and the percentage of parents at games compared to now was no more than 40-50%.

I often rode my bike to school for basketball practices at 6:30am in 7th grade because that was the only time our team had the gym. We weren't given rides everywhere like today.

It wasn't necessarily a more innocent time. There were just as many creepers back then as there are now. We just weren't as protected. Right or wrong - that's just the way it is.

I also believe that as much as I love my Mom I think her generation of parenting will go down as one of the worst. They were either selfish, blind or indifferent. Divorce rates skyrocketed and many parents put their wants/desires ahead of their kids. I also think that a good chunk of that generation of parents are living with a ton of regret right now. General statement I know. But I really believe that. Many kids I know were like me - left to fend for themselves. Some good came out of it. Work ethic. I faked a work permit so I could get a job and ride 2 buses to downtown LA for minimum wage at 14. I paid for everything beyond a roof over my head from 16 on. Moved out at 18. Self reliance. Again, some positives.

That being said, I didn't want that for my kids. I got zero guidance. Zero help. So my wife and I have been much more involved in our kids live. At least aware. Many parents of my generation had no freakin' idea what was going on, what we are doing, or frankly didn't care. And we all went to those houses to party. We paid attention. I think they did grow up safer because of that. I coached baseball, we were involved in school fund raisers etc. As far as making their childhood "magical", I think we did that. They are telling us that now. But not in the ways that most think. It wasn't about over the top birthday parties or trying to compete with what money could buy (I'm just an average FBG but surrounded by serious wealth -talking people that can burn Chet-like cash for kindling in their fireplaces). We made our kids childhood magical by being there. By having family meals at the table every day. By allowing them to grow up with occasional stumbles but offering guidance the entire way. The only "magic" I tried to create was with memories with family vacations. Big believer in that, and I do believe it made our family even tighter.

Great topic. I'm actually in the next phase of my life. My kids have the foundation they need. Now I'm trying to ensure that the next chapter for me and Mrs. Smails is magical.

Self reliance is not a small thing though. If I remember correctly you are one of my FBG mancrushes. You've posted about having personal, marital, and professional success. Trips to Baja I think and what not. Seems like you are in the upper level of FBG as far as that stuff is concerned. Don't you think self-reliance is a big part of that? You are an entrepreneur as well, no?

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

I remember when I started coaching Little League, the parents would drop kids off and ask what time they would be done. That was mid 90s. I remember the last few years I coached, say around 2005, there would be parents in the stands during the first practice and I would have the kids run a lap around the outfield then walk over and say - you've got two free hours, get out of here, take advantage. Worked the first couple times, but by the last year, it was 75% of the parents, and I think the peer pressure was too much. They wouldn't leave. Still amazes me. We talkin bout PRACTICE!

Yeah I remember my parents always dropping me off at baseball practice. They'd come to most games, but if one of them couldn't, I never felt less loved because of it. I knew they had #### to do. And man, the whole kid's sports culture has changed so much...for the worse imho. Newsflash...your kid will not play professional sports because you push them like a Tiger Woods or a Williams sister. There are a whole lot more Marinovich burnout stories than success stories.

As for entertaining my kids, I don't feel pressure to do that. I know they'll entertain themselves whether I do it or not. Do I play with them, help them with homework, etc? Of course. My wife feels more pressure to entertain them than I do, but she also doesn't go to the bizarre lengths we often see other parents going to. A prime example is the ridiculous birthday parties and how much money people are spending on them. Our bday parties are always simple, smallish, and low budget, but the kids always come away talking about what a blast they've had. Why? B/c birthday, cake. piñatas, running around being stupid kids.... Hello!

 

[bigbottom]

I'm guessing the lavish birthday party deal may be a boy vs. girl thing, because my son's birthday parties are always pretty low-key, as are his friends' parties. Not that they don't involve some expense though. We hosted 12 for paintball at my son's last party, which was a blast, albeit running us several hundred dollars. But the refreshments were bottled water and ice cream sandwiches, and there were no "goodie bags," so virtually no work or prep required. No one that I know is spending two days baking a cake and pulling all nighters to design gift bags and centerpieces for a bunch of rowdy boys.

 

[bigbottom]

Oh, and on the Disney thing, I resisted for years. Had absolutely no interest in going. My wife finally gave up trying to convince me and booked a trip with her mom and our boys. Told me I didn't need to go and shouldn't feel any pressure to go. Ultimately, I decided that I didn't want to miss out on being there for my kids' first time at Disney. Best decision ever. We had a total blast and the memories are something I will treasure for the rest of my life. That's not to say that meaningful memories can't be created in infinite (and much less expensive) ways, a point I made upthread. But I disagree with those who deride parents who choose to take their kids there. If it's worth it to them, then that's all that needs to be said. And as for those who have made the point that the kids may have no memory of their trip to Disney because they are too young, or if they're old enough, the memories will nevertheless fade over time, I'd say that you are discounting the memories of the parents. Because we get those memories too. And while you may not realize it in the moment, those memories can end up meaning everything to you.

 

[jamny]

Great post Judge Smails. Similar life growing up. When I was like 12 or 13, I was already out all day unless it was a school night. As long as I was home by 5pm for dinner, my parents had no idea where I was. But I was usually around the neighborhood or in the park playing softball or football. Got my first job at 15 washing dishes in the back of a butcher shop. My parents would come see a school play or concert and do the parent teacher night and check my homework but there wasn't a lot of involvement. My father did get involved in Boy Scouts while me and my brother were in it. But overall, there was a lot of independence. Plenty of friends but I was fine with amusing myself when I was alone. We went on plenty of vacations and they were great memories, Disney being one of them. My parent's moved when I was 18 and I stayed and got my first apartment.

My parents weren't my friends, they were my parents. I'm not saying I couldn't have used a little more structure and guidance but the mistakes I've made along the way were my own.

I don't know how you guys raise kids these days with all of the challenges. It's really interesting to watch, especially on Facebook. One friend probably posts about 95% about his son and what he's doing with him. I tend to think he's a great dad but who knows. Maybe it's too much. I blocked him from my newsfeed because I couldn't take reading it anymore. Social media alone would drive me crazy if I had a kid.

 

[NutterButter]

Oh, and on the Disney thing, I resisted for years. Had absolutely no interest in going. My wife finally gave up trying to convince me and booked a trip with her mom and our boys. Told me I didn't need to go and shouldn't feel any pressure to go. Ultimately, I decided that I didn't want to miss out on being there for my kids' first time at Disney. Best decision ever. We had a total blast and the memories are something I will treasure for the rest of my life. That's not to say that meaningful memories can't be created in infinite (and much less expensive) ways, a point I made upthread. But I disagree with those who deride parents who choose to take their kids there. If it's worth it to them, then that's all that needs to be said. And as for those who have made the point that the kids may have no memory of their trip to Disney because they are too young, or if they're old enough, the memories will nevertheless fade over time, I'd say that you are discounting the memories of the parents. Because we get those memories too. And while you may not realize it in the moment, those memories can end up meaning everything to you.

I was one of those parents that could care less if my kids went to disney, but after going a few years ago, there's really no denying that place is awesome.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Oh, and on the Disney thing, I resisted for years. Had absolutely no interest in going. My wife finally gave up trying to convince me and booked a trip with her mom and our boys. Told me I didn't need to go and shouldn't feel any pressure to go. Ultimately, I decided that I didn't want to miss out on being there for my kids' first time at Disney. Best decision ever. We had a total blast and the memories are something I will treasure for the rest of my life. That's not to say that meaningful memories can't be created in infinite (and much less expensive) ways, a point I made upthread. But I disagree with those who deride parents who choose to take their kids there. If it's worth it to them, then that's all that needs to be said. And as for those who have made the point that the kids may have no memory of their trip to Disney because they are too young, or if they're old enough, the memories will nevertheless fade over time, I'd say that you are discounting the memories of the parents. Because we get those memories too. And while you may not realize it in the moment, those memories can end up meaning everything to you.

Lots of people discount these memories because they dont care about them. If you take your kids somewhere and the only thing you are are thinking the whole time is that you would rather be somewhere else, your kids wont feed off of that.

If every time they look at you you are buried in your phone, they might get whiny just to get your attention. If you are participating anything can be fun. If you are participating DIsney can be magical.

 

[Yenrub]

I try to do for my child what my parents did for my brother and I.

Give her everything that she needs and some of what she wants.

On occasion this means that I entertain the child but not too often because there are 8 or 9 kids in her age range that live near us. Plus she is often busy with school, music lessons or a sports team.

 

[El Floppo]

at the notion that parenting has substantially changed over the course of a generation or two and even more that things have gotten worse. There will always be good parents and there will always be bad parents. There will always be overbearing parents and neglectful parents.

Same as day one.

I don't know about "gotten worse" but I disagree that things haven't changed. I have this conversation with my mom somewhat often- she's always astonished at how full kids' days are packed by their parents now versus even when I was growing up (and she was busy being a thoughtful, involved parent). we had sports and extracurricular stuff- and of course sometimes we needed to be driven to these things before we knew how to drive. but we had tons of down-time, busy being a kid doing whatever: toys, playing with friends, reading, whatever.

as a parent of a 3 and 7 yo, I'm astonished by how much #### our peers are doing with, for and making their kids do; every weeknight and weekend is packed. soooo little time, if any, for them to figure out their own little lives and just play. another difference is that dads are fully involved in ways they really weren't (en masse) when I was growing up- so now there are two parents buzzing around and scheduling stuff.

I say this as a dad who loves hanging out with my kids more than just about anything else- but I know it's good for both of them to figure out and do their own thing without our involvement.

at the notion that parenting has

substantially changed over the course of a generation or two and even more that things have gotten worse. There will always be good parents and there will always be bad

parents. There will always be overbearing parents and neglectful parents.

Same as day one.

How old are you? This couldn't be more off

base...

62Care to explain why it's off-base?

and add in the internet with social media on top of it (parenting blogs/boards are the absolute worst, btw- and those were before FB) making parents more "aware" of all the crap going on- both good and bad- and you have over-involved and indulgent parents beyond what my parents saw. and of course- that doesn't mean there weren't over-involved and over-indulgent parents at all times... just far more now.

 

[Doug B]

No kids here, but a good buddy was telling me last week about his trip to Florida with his two kids last summer. He said they went to Disney World, Legoland, some other park, and the beach. After the trip he asked them what their favorite part was and they both said the day at the beach.

Dan $nyder must own Legoland ... those tickets and amenities make DisneyWorld look like a McDonald's Playland. Your buddy pretty much dropped a new car on that Florida trip unless he had huge hookups.

 

[Brony]

Very interesting topic.

Great topic. I'm actually in the next phase of my life. My kids have the foundation they need. Now I'm trying to ensure that the next chapter for me and Mrs. Smails is magical.

nice post JS.

I struggle with the idea of setting my kids up for success. You know deep down that you have to let them fail frequently in order to get better, but it's an uncomfortable position as their parent to watch them struggle / learn lessons the hard way. It's something I never really thought about before being a dad. I rely on trusting my gut and 'I'll know when I see it'. If I wasn't such an idiot, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable with this.

 

[Doug B]

at the notion that parenting has substantially changed over the course of a generation or two and even more that things have gotten worse. There will always be good parents and there will always be bad parents. There will always be overbearing parents and neglectful parents.

Same as day one.

How old are you? This couldn't be more off base...

Zow is not generally wrong ... but that's the thing. He's speaking in generalities, whereas the article in the OP was speaking of specifics.

It's not that today's kids are going to turn out functionally incompetent or something. Chances are, they'll be collectively OK in the end. It's just that, being a parent today, you can tell that a lot of kids -- including my own -- are losing out on some of the confidence- and competence-buildings aspects of childhood our generation enjoyed.

And heck -- maybe that line of thought itself HAS been often repeated throughout the ages. My dad, by age 12-13 or so, was riding bikes several miles to the nearest woods with his buddies, all carrying firearms, and went deer hunting (I think it was more "shooting at deer"). My brothers and I never took up hunting or target shooting ... so perhaps when we were doing our own 70s-style kid stuff, my dad was secretly regretting that us kids never went hunting and therefore were losing out on some essential life experience.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

No kids here, but a good buddy was telling me last week about his trip to Florida with his two kids last summer. He said they went to Disney World, Legoland, some other park, and the beach. After the trip he asked them what their favorite part was and they both said the day at the beach.

Yeah, I guess I don't get the intense attraction of Disney. I got hammered in the Disney thread about that. My wife and I went there with family before our kids were born, and it just wasn't all it's cracked up to be in our experience. Our kids watch the occasional Disney movie, but I just don't think they'd like DisneyWorld all that much compared to the other traveling we do. They certainly don't identify so strongly with any Disney character that they are missing out terribly if we don't make the pilgrimage to Orlando. We travel a LOT with our kids ... Taught them both to snowski when they were 4 & go almost every year ... started taking them to Isla Mujeres, Playa del Carmen, etc in Mexico when they were 2 ... go to lots of sporting events, auto races, take road trips around the U.S. to beaches, the mountains, etc. They absolutely love it and grow so much from it. I think they, and we, are getting far more from all of that than we would get from blowing our money on a super-expensive theme park visit.

 

[lumpy19]

I have little kids (4 & 2)

Do todays parents really sit around at practices and wait?

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I have little kids (4 & 2)

Do todays parents really sit around at practices and wait?

Yep. Probably the majority do. I might do it from tome to time, but unless I'm helping coach, I won't be hanging around at every practice.

 

[Brony]

I have little kids (4 & 2)

Do todays parents really sit around at practices and wait?

My kids are 6 & 8 - we've been doing the drop-off for 2+ years and I'm still very appreciative if someone else is going to watch our kids for more than an hour. I'll stay at their practice if I'm going to be helping out the coaches, but no way I'm staying to just watch.

One of my daughter does cheerleading in the fall at youth football games and I can't believe that sometimes I'm there to watch someone watch a football game.

 

[AcerFC]

I have little kids (4 & 2)

Do todays parents really sit around at practices and wait?

I coach a U8 soccer team and 90% of the parents bring a chair and watch

My son plays U6 hockey and the rink is 35 minutes from my house. I wait the hour at the rink because going back and forth would be stupid.