/endthread.Hurts for his leadership skills alone.
But isn't some of that due to Balt trying to maximize what Jackson is good at? They tailored the offense specifically for Jackson's strengths.I think it is unfair to compare these 2 QB's just due to the surrounding cast. Hurts has a much better receiving core, who is the best WR that Lamar Jackson has worked with, Hollywood Brown?
Would you rather have Hollywood brown or davonta smith, and that isn't even the best receiver that Hurts has to work with.
But isn't some of that due to Balt trying to maximize what Jackson is good at? They tailored the offense specifically for Jackson's strengths.I think it is unfair to compare these 2 QB's just due to the surrounding cast. Hurts has a much better receiving core, who is the best WR that Lamar Jackson has worked with, Hollywood Brown?
Would you rather have Hollywood brown or davonta smith, and that isn't even the best receiver that Hurts has to work with.
Or maybe its the QB throwing them the ball?They might have the most draft capital in WR's over the last few years, they just suck at drafting WR's.
Or maybe its the QB throwing them the ball?They might have the most draft capital in WR's over the last few years, they just suck at drafting WR's.
Might be a "chicken or the egg" thing.
Depending on the season my answer will change.
I'll take the one with the better offensive line, better supporting cast and better defense. ATM that's the Eagles.
May we also assume the same number of games played going forward?Depending on the season my answer will change.
I'll take the one with the better offensive line, better supporting cast and better defense. ATM that's the Eagles.
My question assumed they had the same oline and supporting cast.
Same supporting cast and presumption of health: Lamar all day, every day. Peak Lamar has been better than peak Hurts. Simple as that.May we also assume the same number of games played going forward?Depending on the season my answer will change.
I'll take the one with the better offensive line, better supporting cast and better defense. ATM that's the Eagles.
My question assumed they had the same oline and supporting cast.
Hurts so good.Hurts all day.
Has he in the last couple years? In his top years sure. Do you think he gets back to 2019 form?Jackson is a better runner. Passing wise there is not much between them but look at the supporting casts.
I get people want the leadership but give me Jackson who has been as productive in a worse situation.
might want to get that checked out.Hurts all day.
or developing them. Which is partly on the QB., they just suck at drafting WR's.
He's 26, I'm willing to gamble on that.Has he in the last couple years? In his top years sure. Do you think he gets back to 2019 form?Jackson is a better runner. Passing wise there is not much between them but look at the supporting casts.
I get people want the leadership but give me Jackson who has been as productive in a worse situation.
Obviously you may assume the same number of games played going forward if you'd like, but that wasn't part of the assumptions in his question, only the same supporting cast was. Basically, if you ran Philly or Baltimore, which QB would you choose for the next 3 years? I can see an argument for both, but I can't really get on board with "all day, every day" for either. Sure, peak Lamar was better than peak Hurts, but peak Lamar occurred 4 seasons ago while peak Hurts was just last season (and may not be his career peak).Same supporting cast and presumption of health: Lamar all day, every day. Peak Lamar has been better than peak Hurts. Simple as that.May we also assume the same number of games played going forward?Depending on the season my answer will change.
I'll take the one with the better offensive line, better supporting cast and better defense. ATM that's the Eagles.
My question assumed they had the same oline and supporting cast.
If you think their health is related to supporting cast and not their playing style or genetics.May we also assume the same number of games played going forward?Depending on the season my answer will change.
I'll take the one with the better offensive line, better supporting cast and better defense. ATM that's the Eagles.
My question assumed they had the same oline and supporting cast.
Sure, that's not surprising considering the relatively small sample sizes. The two could have a large discrepancy in performance again this season that would swing things (in either direction), but I agree it's close right now.If you asked this forum this same question last year at this time it would've been overwhelmingly Jackson (not saying that was correct/incorrect, more of an observation of how much a year can change things). I like Hurts, but I think it's closer than most people are making it.
That’s fair, I just haven’t seen the consistency I’d want. Hurts is just getting started so he might not keep it up, but it sure seems like Lamar has lost something. He can still turn it on at times.He's 26, I'm willing to gamble on that.Has he in the last couple years? In his top years sure. Do you think he gets back to 2019 form?Jackson is a better runner. Passing wise there is not much between them but look at the supporting casts.
I get people want the leadership but give me Jackson who has been as productive in a worse situation.
I have no idea how to handicap either guy but I think a lot of people are unfairly critical of Lamar.That’s fair, I just haven’t seen the consistency I’d want. Hurts is just getting started so he might not keep it up, but it sure seems like Lamar has lost something. He can still turn it on at times.He's 26, I'm willing to gamble on that.Has he in the last couple years? In his top years sure. Do you think he gets back to 2019 form?Jackson is a better runner. Passing wise there is not much between them but look at the supporting casts.
I get people want the leadership but give me Jackson who has been as productive in a worse situation.
I definitely don’t think he’s done. I’ve said it before here and I mean it, he’s one of my favorite players to watch.I have no idea how to handicap either guy but I think a lot of people are unfairly critical of Lamar.That’s fair, I just haven’t seen the consistency I’d want. Hurts is just getting started so he might not keep it up, but it sure seems like Lamar has lost something. He can still turn it on at times.He's 26, I'm willing to gamble on that.Has he in the last couple years? In his top years sure. Do you think he gets back to 2019 form?Jackson is a better runner. Passing wise there is not much between them but look at the supporting casts.
I get people want the leadership but give me Jackson who has been as productive in a worse situation.
Particularly understating the year Lamar had in 2020 following his MVP season. He put up 2,700+ passing, 26 pass TDs (6.9%), 1,000+ rushing with 7 TDs. That kind of season is easily on par with what Jalen did last season. The "he hasn't performed in four seasons" refrain rings hollow to me. Lamar's decline in 2021 & 2022 seems to correlate quite well with losing Orlando Brown entirely in 2021 and having Stanley for only 6 games in 2020 and 1 in 2021.
Hurts was unquestionably the better QB last season (particularly comp% & y/a) but even then, when everyone is calling Lamar washed, Hurts only performed marginally better than Lamar on a much better team.
Lamar: 202 pass y/g, 1.5 TD/g, 0.6 INT/g with 69 rush y/g & 0.3 TD/g
Hurts: 247 pass y/g, 1.5 TD/g, 0.4 INT/g with 51 rush y/g & 0.9 TD/g
Hurts's fantasy stats were heavily bolstered by Siriani repeatedly playing rugby with his start QB. That's what people truly remember, even if they don't realize it, what a monster fantasy season he had.
And Lamar's only 26 so I have difficulty saying that he's simply done.
This season I expect Hurts to perform above Lamar. He simply has a much better supporting cast on both sides of the ball, TE is the only supporting position where you can say the Ravens have the better guy.
But the theoretical is "with the same supporting cast" in which case I'll gladly roll the dice on Lamar.
Absent knowing how good these are drives me to Jackson. Knowing of course that if the surrounding cast is so bad that we need the one man show that it won't last very long anyway.My question assumed they had the same oline and supporting cast.
Why do you (and others in you camp) keep doing this? I'm fairly certain NO ONE is calling Lamar washed or saying that he's simply done. Any chance you can drop the straw man? It's pretty much impossible to have an honest discussion when this is your mindset.I have no idea how to handicap either guy but I think a lot of people are unfairly critical of Lamar.That’s fair, I just haven’t seen the consistency I’d want. Hurts is just getting started so he might not keep it up, but it sure seems like Lamar has lost something. He can still turn it on at times.He's 26, I'm willing to gamble on that.Has he in the last couple years? In his top years sure. Do you think he gets back to 2019 form?Jackson is a better runner. Passing wise there is not much between them but look at the supporting casts.
I get people want the leadership but give me Jackson who has been as productive in a worse situation.
Particularly understating the year Lamar had in 2020 following his MVP season. He put up 2,700+ passing, 26 pass TDs (6.9%), 1,000+ rushing with 7 TDs. That kind of season is easily on par with what Jalen did last season. The "he hasn't performed in four seasons" refrain rings hollow to me. Lamar's decline in 2021 & 2022 seems to correlate quite well with losing Orlando Brown entirely in 2021 and having Stanley for only 6 games in 2020 and 1 in 2021.
Hurts was unquestionably the better QB last season (particularly comp% & y/a) but even then, when everyone is calling Lamar washed, Hurts only performed marginally better than Lamar on a much better team.
Lamar: 202 pass y/g, 1.5 TD/g, 0.6 INT/g with 69 rush y/g & 0.3 TD/g
Hurts: 247 pass y/g, 1.5 TD/g, 0.4 INT/g with 51 rush y/g & 0.9 TD/g
Hurts's fantasy stats were heavily bolstered by Siriani repeatedly playing rugby with his start QB. That's what people truly remember, even if they don't realize it, what a monster fantasy season he had.
And Lamar's only 26 so I have difficulty saying that he's simply done.
This season I expect Hurts to perform above Lamar. He simply has a much better supporting cast on both sides of the ball, TE is the only supporting position where you can say the Ravens have the better guy.
But the theoretical is "with the same supporting cast" in which case I'll gladly roll the dice on Lamar.
I removed the triggering language from my post.Why do you (and others in you camp) keep doing this? I'm fairly certain NO ONE is calling Lamar washed or saying that he's simply done. Any chance you can drop the straw man? It's pretty much impossible to have an honest discussion when this is your mindset.I have no idea how to handicap either guy but I think a lot of people are unfairly critical of Lamar.That’s fair, I just haven’t seen the consistency I’d want. Hurts is just getting started so he might not keep it up, but it sure seems like Lamar has lost something. He can still turn it on at times.He's 26, I'm willing to gamble on that.Has he in the last couple years? In his top years sure. Do you think he gets back to 2019 form?Jackson is a better runner. Passing wise there is not much between them but look at the supporting casts.
I get people want the leadership but give me Jackson who has been as productive in a worse situation.
Particularly understating the year Lamar had in 2020 following his MVP season. He put up 2,700+ passing, 26 pass TDs (6.9%), 1,000+ rushing with 7 TDs. That kind of season is easily on par with what Jalen did last season. The "he hasn't performed in four seasons" refrain rings hollow to me. Lamar's decline in 2021 & 2022 seems to correlate quite well with losing Orlando Brown entirely in 2021 and having Stanley for only 6 games in 2020 and 1 in 2021.
Hurts was unquestionably the better QB last season (particularly comp% & y/a) but even then, when everyone is calling Lamar washed, Hurts only performed marginally better than Lamar on a much better team.
Lamar: 202 pass y/g, 1.5 TD/g, 0.6 INT/g with 69 rush y/g & 0.3 TD/g
Hurts: 247 pass y/g, 1.5 TD/g, 0.4 INT/g with 51 rush y/g & 0.9 TD/g
Hurts's fantasy stats were heavily bolstered by Siriani repeatedly playing rugby with his start QB. That's what people truly remember, even if they don't realize it, what a monster fantasy season he had.
And Lamar's only 26 so I have difficulty saying that he's simply done.
This season I expect Hurts to perform above Lamar. He simply has a much better supporting cast on both sides of the ball, TE is the only supporting position where you can say the Ravens have the better guy.
But the theoretical is "with the same supporting cast" in which case I'll gladly roll the dice on Lamar.
Lamar has regressed the last couple of seasons, that is undeniable. Just like he has performed poorly in the postseason so far and he has missed a lot of time due to injuries the last two years. Should be no controversy there. That doesn't mean that he sucks, or he's never going to stay healthy, or he's never going to play better in the postseason and, of course, no one is saying that.
Nice to see Hurts finally getting the respect he deserves on these boards. That said, Lamar is the better player. Amazing to see so many discount his passing ability. Their situations weren't even remotely comparable last year. Injury risk is the only reason I'd favor Hurts if I were picking between them. And that is zero disrespect to Hurts. The only QB I'd take over Lamar Jackson, if we are removing injury risk (and team situation) from the analysis, is Patty Mahomes.
I agree that I expect Hurts to continue to improve but the take that Jackson has leveled out is surprising. He has by a wide margin the best WR room of his career and an OC that will actually let him throw the ball. He honestly may have never been in a better situation.Nice to see Hurts finally getting the respect he deserves on these boards. That said, Lamar is the better player. Amazing to see so many discount his passing ability. Their situations weren't even remotely comparable last year. Injury risk is the only reason I'd favor Hurts if I were picking between them. And that is zero disrespect to Hurts. The only QB I'd take over Lamar Jackson, if we are removing injury risk (and team situation) from the analysis, is Patty Mahomes.
I don't think Hurts is done getting better. I think Jackson is what he's going to be going forward.
I agree that I expect Hurts to continue to improve but the take that Jackson has leveled out is surprising. He has by a wide margin the best WR room of his career and an OC that will actually let him throw the ball. He honestly may have never been in a better situation.Nice to see Hurts finally getting the respect he deserves on these boards. That said, Lamar is the better player. Amazing to see so many discount his passing ability. Their situations weren't even remotely comparable last year. Injury risk is the only reason I'd favor Hurts if I were picking between them. And that is zero disrespect to Hurts. The only QB I'd take over Lamar Jackson, if we are removing injury risk (and team situation) from the analysis, is Patty Mahomes.
I don't think Hurts is done getting better. I think Jackson is what he's going to be going forward.
Andrews of course is top notch and elevates everyone else around him. I would feel better if they had added help on the offensive line but if Stanley can stay on the field they should be pretty good up front.I agree that I expect Hurts to continue to improve but the take that Jackson has leveled out is surprising. He has by a wide margin the best WR room of his career and an OC that will actually let him throw the ball. He honestly may have never been in a better situation.Nice to see Hurts finally getting the respect he deserves on these boards. That said, Lamar is the better player. Amazing to see so many discount his passing ability. Their situations weren't even remotely comparable last year. Injury risk is the only reason I'd favor Hurts if I were picking between them. And that is zero disrespect to Hurts. The only QB I'd take over Lamar Jackson, if we are removing injury risk (and team situation) from the analysis, is Patty Mahomes.
I don't think Hurts is done getting better. I think Jackson is what he's going to be going forward.
Did anyone else watch Jackson at Louisville? He was running Petrino's offense, which is way more "NFL Normal" than what Roman did. He destroyed teams throwing the ball.