Which team would score more? (1 Viewer)

[Pipes]

Hockey plays with 6 players.

My bad my maths off but the premise still stands

 

[Anarchy99]

Another hypothetical question within a hypothetical question. Do both teams play both games? (ie Bruins and Dodgers players in both games)? If so, the game that is second that team has an advantage as they would know how many runs / goals they would need to win.

It might be interesting if the Bruins played the Dodgers in one sport while the Canadians played the Tigers at the same time in the other. If both teams have to play both games, clearly there would have to be a recovery period if hockey was played first.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Baseball players may as well be replaced with cardboard cutouts that swing sticks as that is what they would be reduced to. 

Seriously. 5 guys that can't skate and a goalie that probably couldn't move if he could even stay standing. There is no strategy other than hoping for deflections and the hockey players to screw up.

 

[Pipes]

Also not really a hockey guy but I assume that you have to have 3 guys on the red line at face off no?  The 2 centermen and wings on each side.  If that's the case the NHLs would score before those 3 MLBers would even get back on D.  That wall theory just wouldn't work.

I still think the MLBers would score at least 200 runs but just find it laughable they would have any tactics that would possibly slow down the hockey guys on the ice.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Also not really a hockey guy but I assume that you have to have 3 guys on the red line at face off no?  The 2 centermen and wings on each side.  If that's the case the NHLs would score before those 3 MLBers would even get back on D.  That wall theory just wouldn't work.

I still think the MLBers would score at least 200 runs but just find it laughable they would have any tactics that would possibly slow down the hockey guys on the ice.

No, there is no required place to lineup. Don't even have to have a guy take the faceoff.

Edit: just have to be on your side of the draw and only one guy can be in the circle.

 

[the rover]

No, there is no required place to lineup. Don't even have to have a guy take the faceoff.

Wat?  If there are no rules than I take hockey.  They can just destroy every player that tries to run to first.

 

[DropKick]

A hockey team on defense would never get out of the first inning against a pro baseball team. 

Not sure about that; guys are going to hit ground balls, pop-ups,etc.  An athlete with a baseball glove has a chance.  Its only 27 outs.

Put a bunch of baseball players on skates?  Who is going to play goal?  My money is on the hockey team.

 

[GregR]

In real NHL games, teams do use a penalty killing strategy in games when they are ahead late. So they already do a modification of what I am suggesting. Just have the MLB players where extra padding and protection and have them prepared for a beat down. Even without this strategy the baseball players may end up in an ICU.

Yes, NHL players can hit them, but they can't just go up to them and rough, slash, or cross-check them. Even if the hockey players try to check the MLB players out of the way, it still will waste valuable time. It would likely be a good strategy for the NHL team to not even send out a goalie and play 6 guys on offense.

Along those lines, maybe in the baseball game the hockey pitchers are better off intentionally beaning the baseball players (even if they get ejected). Winning by attrition ould be an option in both games.

Why stop there though?

During the first pitch, the NHL catcher just pulls his helmet off and starts beating the MLB hitter in the face with it. Ejected from the game and takes the MLB lead off hitter out with injury.  2nd batter, new catcher, same exact thing.  Don't even have to do it more than once or twice more in the whole rest of the game after that. MLB hitters would be watching the catcher more than the pitch the rest of the game, flinching every time the catcher twitches or moves a hand towards his helmet. Try going 9 for 10 in that scenario.

Orrrrrrrr... maybe we're just being a bit ridiculous and we should assume the teams actually try to play the games normally.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Wat?  If there are no rules than I take hockey.  They can just destroy every player that tries to run to first.

?

There is no rule in hockey where you have to lineup other than:

just have to be on your side of the draw and only one guy can be in the circle.

 

[the rover]

The DH question is really crucial.  Kershaw is one of the best hitting pitchers in the game and he's a career .156 hitter.  If you have a good chance of getting an out every 9 batters and randomly get lucky on a few other pop flies, the MLB team scores under 200 and the NHL team may be able to beat the clock.

 

[Anarchy99]

Why stop there though?

During the first pitch, the NHL catcher just pulls his helmet off and starts beating the MLB hitter in the face with it. Ejected from the game and takes the MLB lead off hitter out with injury.  2nd batter, new catcher, same exact thing.  Don't even have to do it more than once or twice more in the whole rest of the game after that. MLB hitters would be watching the catcher more than the pitch the rest of the game, flinching every time the catcher twitches or moves a hand towards his helmet. Try going 9 for 10 in that scenario.

Orrrrrrrr... maybe we're just being a bit ridiculous and we should assume the teams actually try to play the games normally.

Which brings up another question. Since it's clear the MLBers arent great skaters, would the refs call penalties for roughing on the NHLers who usually check guys that can take a hit. How many times have we seen WR's draw a flag for hitting a defenseless receiver when they were just hard hits?

 

[the rover]

Why stop there though?

During the first pitch, the NHL catcher just pulls his helmet off and starts beating the MLB hitter in the face with it. Ejected from the game and takes the MLB lead off hitter out with injury.  2nd batter, new catcher, same exact thing.  Don't even have to do it more than once or twice more in the whole rest of the game after that. MLB hitters would be watching the catcher more than the pitch the rest of the game, flinching every time the catcher twitches or moves a hand towards his helmet. Try going 9 for 10 in that scenario.

Orrrrrrrr... maybe we're just being a bit ridiculous and we should assume the teams actually try to play the games normally.

Except fighting is part of the sport in hockey.  Take a couple 5 minute majors--no problem.  Even a man down they'll score, and by the third period there won't be a baseball team.

 

[Anarchy99]

The DH question is really crucial.  Kershaw is one of the best hitting pitchers in the game and he's a career .156 hitter.  If you have a good chance of getting an out every 9 batters and randomly get lucky on a few other pop flies, the MLB team scores under 200 and the NHL team may be able to beat the clock.

If pitchers have to hit, just have them take every pitch. IMO, still a 50%-60% chance of getting a walk. I think people are underestimating how difficult it is to get the ball over the plate with a legit strike zone.

 

[the rover]

Which brings up another question. Since it's clear the MLBers arent great skaters, would the refs call penalties for roughing on the NHLers who usually check guys that can take a hit. How many times have we seen WR's draw a flag for hitting a defenseless receiver when they were just hard hits?

Envisioning the Hansen brothers from Slap Shot, but against Dominicans.

 

[the rover]

If pitchers have to hit, just have them take every pitch. IMO, still a 50%-60% chance of getting a walk. I think people are underestimating how difficult it is to get the ball over the plate with a legit strike zone.

It really isn't as hard as you think.  Again, a lot of hockey players played baseball at least through high school, and they're professional athletes.  I played rec league baseball in my 20's, and we had 4 or 5 guys who could pitch without walking everyone. That's just random guys that wanted to play baseball, not trained athletes.

They may not be throwing filthy stuff, but it isn't all that hard to throw a fastball down the middle.   

 

[Anarchy99]

It really isn't as hard as you think.  Again, a lot of hockey players played baseball at least through high school, and they're professional athletes.  I played rec league baseball in my 20's, and we had 4 or 5 guys who could pitch without walking everyone. That's just random guys that wanted to play baseball, not trained athletes.

They may not be throwing filthy stuff, but it isn't all that hard to throw a fastball down the middle.   

If they throw BP fastballs down the middle they may run out of baseballs. Clearly each case is different. I played baseball for year through high school and pitched some. Ten years later I couldn't find the plate. IMO, Little League is not the same. I have no idea how many hockey players played organized HS baseball (or beyond). I am guessing whatever that percentage is, it will be a far greater percentage than baseball players that played hockey (HS or beyond).

Not that it means much, I had a houseful of kids that played different and multiple varsity HS sports. They were considered "athletes" and lettered in each sport they played, sometimes were named all-state, and even played in college. But put a basketball player on a soccer field and it got ugly. Give a football player a baseball bat and watch him whiff every time. It's not that easy. And all of our kids played lots of baseball early on, and the ones that stopped in their teens couldn't do much of anything as college age players trying to play baseball.

 

[the rover]

If they throw BP fastballs down the middle they may run out of baseballs. Clearly each case is different. I played baseball for year through high school and pitched some. Ten years later I couldn't find the plate. IMO, Little League is not the same. I have no idea how many hockey players played organized HS baseball (or beyond). I am guessing whatever that percentage is, it will be a far greater percentage than baseball players that played hockey (HS or beyond).

Not that it means much, I had a houseful of kids that played different and multiple varsity HS sports. They were considered "athletes" and lettered in each sport they played, sometimes were named all-state, and even played in college. But put a basketball player on a soccer field and it got ugly. Give a football player a baseball bat and watch him whiff every time. It's not that easy. And all of our kids played lots of baseball early on, and the ones that stopped in their teens couldn't do much of anything as college age players trying to play baseball.

If there's no DH, you get a guy that's probably no better hitter than a high school player every 9 batters.  Throw strikes and he's going to have to put the ball in play.  There's a decent chance he makes an out.  If one position player flies out out of each time you face those 8 and you can get the pitcher out more times than not, the MLB team is down around 200 or less runs.  That's a reachable number for the hockey team.  With a DH, I don't think it's achievable.

 

[DropKick]

If there's no DH, you get a guy that's probably no better hitter than a high school player every 9 batters.  Throw strikes and he's going to have to put the ball in play.  There's a decent chance he makes an out.  If one position player flies out out of each time you face those 8 and you can get the pitcher out more times than not, the MLB team is down around 200 or less runs.  That's a reachable number for the hockey team.  With a DH, I don't think it's achievable.

You may get more than 1 out in 9...  You just need a guy who can throw strikes.  They'd have to relax the major league strike zone though.  I don't see guys trying to milk them for a walk though...  More likely trying to kill the ball.  And the speed (or lack of it) might throw them off too.  How may guys get under a ball in home run derby? 

 

[the rover]

You may get more than 1 out in 9...  You just need a guy who can throw strikes.  They'd have to relax the major league strike zone though.  I don't see guys trying to milk them for a walk though...  More likely trying to kill the ball.  And the speed (or lack of it) might throw them off too.  How may guys get under a ball in home run derby? 

Yeah, I agree.  Pop flies and line drives right at someone happen.  I'm just trying to figure out a realistic number, even if it's on the high side, because the number of hockey goals is limited by the clock.  I think Pipes' estimate of a max in hockey is pretty good.  Somewhere around 200. If the MLB team gets 1 out from every 9 ABs and all runners score, they score 216 runs.  If the pitcher gets out more often than not and 1 of the position players gets out each time around the order, the NHL team has a good shot.

 

[Anarchy99]

You may get more than 1 out in 9...  You just need a guy who can throw strikes.  They'd have to relax the major league strike zone though.  I don't see guys trying to milk them for a walk though...  More likely trying to kill the ball.  And the speed (or lack of it) might throw them off too.  How may guys get under a ball in home run derby? 

My friend also brought up the home run derby. But they don't need runs, just base runners. Some high schoolers against high schoolers hit .600 or .700. Imagine what guys that went on to be pros could hit against pitchers that may not have thrown a pitch in 10 or 15 years. 

IMO, MLB hitters would get an out  probably once through the order. A good trip MAYBE two. Pitchers could hope for a walk but could still get on base. Pitchers actual batting averages in MLB may not be accurate as they won't be facing big league pitchers. 

 

[Anarchy99]

I still think 200 goals is too high. That's a goal every 18 seconds. Between missed shots, collecting the puck, the occasional dumped puck into their own end, getting in position after face offs, etc. that seems like and unsustainable rate. 

 

[GregR]

I've been going with 1 every 30 seconds for 120 goals, but that admittedly is conservative.  The 82-0 women's Olympic qualifier game was one every 44 seconds. The MLB probably would skate worse than the Bulgarians women while the NHL team would obviously be a lot better than the Slovakian women were.

 

[gianmarco]

I've been going with 1 every 30 seconds for 120 goals, but that admittedly is conservative.  The 82-0 women's Olympic qualifier game was one every 44 seconds. The MLB probably would skate worse than the Bulgarians women while the NHL team would obviously be a lot better than the Slovakian women were.

Yeah , but when the baseball team is in penalty killing mode after each goal, they're going to win 30% of the faceoffs and just chuck the puck down the other end for an icing call which will waste time.

--Anarchy99

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I've been going with 1 every 30 seconds for 120 goals, but that admittedly is conservative.  The 82-0 women's Olympic qualifier game was one every 44 seconds. The MLB probably would skate worse than the Bulgarians women while the NHL team would obviously be a lot better than the Slovakian women were.

The record is 4 seconds which has been done 3 times. 

 

[Anarchy99]

Yeah , but when the baseball team is in penalty killing mode after each goal, they're going to win 30% of the faceoffs and just chuck the puck down the other end for an icing call which will waste time.

--Anarchy99

I said 30 seconds per = 120 goals. 

 

[Thunderlips]

Are you guys nuts? A baseball player has a success rate of 20-30% against a professional pitcher.

Id be shocked if you found 1 NHL player throwing consistent 90mph strikes or 3 NHL players throwing consistent 80 MPH strikes.

The hockey team winds up with their starter throwing inconsistent 70mph strikes. He's giving up on average 10-15 runs in the first 3 innings, lets call it 12. 150 pitches in after 3, how good is the hockey team's number 2 pitcher? Probably 12-15 runs for another 2 innings.

Their 3, 4, & 5 pitchers? Easily 20-40 runs an inning in the 6th to 9th.

Baseball and it isn't close.

Yeah, but professional players aren't always knocking them out of the park when they're getting Batting Practice grooved pitches.  

Say the hockey team is facing an average MLB team.....If I'm the manager of the NHL team and I know the rules of this post (giving up less runs in the MLB game than I am scoring in the NHL game) I might even be intentionally walking a guy or two every inning just to set a force at every base. I'd be intentionally walking the best hitters in the lineup almost at all times.

 

[Thunderlips]

Then just go penalty killing mode all game and not cross center ice. Trying to score would make little sense.

You really think any of those players would be standing after an NHL player buzzed their tower with a 100+ slap shot?

Come on...baseball...you get thrown out for throwing at the head.  NHL....they give you the high five if you buzz the tower.  It's the guys responsiblilty to get out of the way. 

 

[Thunderlips]

IF they're both  at their homefield...the MLB team will only be getting 8 innings of hitting as well....24 outs. 

 

[maxwelledison]

I said 30 seconds per = 120 goals. 

It wouldn't take anywhere near 30 seconds on average. I used 20 seconds as the floor but in reality it would be shorter than that the vast majority of the time.  I don't think you appreciate how much better those guys are than even excellent hockey players - guys that can't skate may as well not even be on the ice. The idea that the MLB guys control the puck at any time in any situation is basically unfathomable.  It would be faceoff, two to four passes, goal.  The entire game. 

 

[maxwelledison]

Also, top NHL forwards play 16-20 minutes per game and top defenseman 22-28 mpg (more in playoffs).  In this scenario the top players would probably not need more than 5-10 minutes of rest and even that is generous. Virtually every NHL team has at least one guy that would be able to snipe on a non-professional goaltender from the top of the circles. And there is literally zero chance an MLB player, let alone all 5, beat him to that spot. Finally, the idea that guys that can't skate would block NHL shots by crowding the net is laughable and obviously proposed by someone who has never played the game. 

 

[TakiToki]

I think time to prepare could be a factor. I don't really have much of a guess overall other than both are going to be really ugly. But I think a few practices would help the hockey guys that have had some baseball experience years in the past more than the baseball guys getting their first hockey experience.

 

[Mile High]

Also, top NHL forwards play 16-20 minutes per game and top defenseman 22-28 mpg (more in playoffs).  In this scenario the top players would probably not need more than 5-10 minutes of rest and even that is generous. Virtually every NHL team has at least one guy that would be able to snipe on a non-professional goaltender from the top of the circles. And there is literally zero chance an MLB player, let alone all 5, beat him to that spot. Finally, the idea that guys that can't skate would block NHL shots by crowding the net is laughable and obviously proposed by someone who has never played the game. 

They wouldn't need the back line or a goalie on the ice. Top 2 frontlines on the ice almost the whole time.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Also, top NHL forwards play 16-20 minutes per game and top defenseman 22-28 mpg (more in playoffs).  In this scenario the top players would probably not need more than 5-10 minutes of rest and even that is generous. Virtually every NHL team has at least one guy that would be able to snipe on a non-professional goaltender from the top of the circles. And there is literally zero chance an MLB player, let alone all 5, beat him to that spot. Finally, the idea that guys that can't skate would block NHL shots by crowding the net is laughable and obviously proposed by someone who has never played the game. 

Yep. Though I don't think there would be any drop off between the 1st and 4th line.The 4th line / healthy scratches were all-star in pretty much every league they played in till the NHL. Their sniping ability is more than sufficient vs a goalie who could barely stand.

 

[ditka...mike ditka]

The DH question is really crucial.  Kershaw is one of the best hitting pitchers in the game and he's a career .156 hitter.  If you have a good chance of getting an out every 9 batters and randomly get lucky on a few other pop flies, the MLB team scores under 200 and the NHL team may be able to beat the clock.

 A .156 hitter against mlb pitching.  Most MLB pitchers were excellent hitters in high school.  I think they would find a way to hit a 65mph fastball thrown by an untrained pitcher.  

 

[the rover]

 A .156 hitter against mlb pitching.  Most MLB pitchers were excellent hitters in high school.  I think they would find a way to hit a 65mph fastball thrown by an untrained pitcher.  

Huge difference between that and a DH, and Kershaw is one of the best hitting pitchers in the league at .156.  Most are a lot worse.

 

[jhib]

Huge difference between that and a DH, and Kershaw is one of the best hitting pitchers in the league at .156.  Most are a lot worse.

Not a bad point, but if some guy that played baseball ten years ago in high school can get some outs on a major league lineup, I think a designated hitter could probably handle the pitching to the NHL guys.   

 

[Take_The_Shot]

Can't believe the baseball love. As someone who played both, this isn't close. NHL wins. A hockey player can't field a groundball and throw it to 1st? Please.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Can't believe the baseball love. As someone who played both, this isn't close. NHL wins. A hockey player can't field a groundball and throw it to 1st? Please.

Yep, that's what would happen if someone was throwing 70 MPH fastballs to major league hitters - tons of groundouts

 

[Take_The_Shot]

Yep, that's what would happen if someone was throwing 70 MPH fastballs to major league hitters - tons of groundouts

Not saying a ton would happen. But they would happen more than what you guys are saying would. Can't see the them reaching 150 runs. The occasional groundout and occasional fly out is all it would take for the NHL team to win.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Not saying a ton would happen. But they would happen more than what you guys are saying would. Can't see the them reaching 150 runs. The occasional groundout and occasional fly out is all it would take for the NHL team to win.

What's "occasional"? Once an inning? While the rest of the team batted around 28 times?

And "groundout" to who? No one on the left side of the infield has a prayer of throwing out a major league player at first, even if he was lucky enough to catch the ball. 

 

[cockroach]

  Again, a lot of hockey players played baseball at least through high school, and they're professional athletes.  

Isn't about a third of the NHL European? 

 

[the rover]

Isn't about a third of the NHL European? 

We're talking about the ability to find a guy on an NHL team who can throw a fastball 60'.  The Americans and Canadians probably played baseball.  Somewhere back a few pages that was mentioned.

 

[Short Corner]

You may get more than 1 out in 9...  You just need a guy who can throw strikes.  They'd have to relax the major league strike zone though.  I don't see guys trying to milk them for a walk though...  More likely trying to kill the ball.  And the speed (or lack of it) might throw them off too.  How may guys get under a ball in home run derby? 

 They will top spin the gaps as long as they don't get bored.  Even the pitcher who will likely be a much better hitter than he is getting credit for here.

 

[AAABatteries]

After thinking about this more I think it's going to come down to dumb luck of the team you pick.  If the hockey team doesn't have a pitcher who can throw strikes then it doesn't matter if they score every 2 seconds in the hockey game.  That one factor probably decides the whole outcome.  And I'm not buying this some of these guys played high school baseball as a reason that they absolutely will throw strikes.  Did they play pitcher?  There's guys in MLB that couldn't throw strikes if you put them out there.  Just have each hockey team send their best pitcher to spring training and give them and inning to pitch and you should find out what you need to know.

 

[El Floppo]

What's "occasional"? Once an inning? While the rest of the team batted around 28 times?

And "groundout" to who? No one on the left side of the infield has a prayer of throwing out a major league player at first, even if he was lucky enough to catch the ball. 

I see the NHL team getting fly balls and force outs at second and third more than throwing to first. Will still give up a ton of runs.

I see most MLB players falling on the ice before anyone even touched them. Combine that with massive and actual athletes (most of whom were multi sport kids until HS at least) checking them? NHL players will be scoring at will.

I think the ice is more of a determining factor than the time limit. 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

A hockey team on defense would never get out of the first inning against a pro baseball team. 

What?

Even in the home run derby with the best hitters in the game playing against intentionally soft pitchers a punch of random kids in the outfield catch fly balls on swings that don't go out of the park.

And the chances are probably decent that the hockey team has at least one guy that can throw a decent fast ball.  Not good by any stretch but more challenging than the home run derby slow pitch softball stuff.

If a juiced up Mark Mcguire swinging against essentially underhand pitches pops out 3 times for every 10 home runs in the home run derby then lessor hitters against a guy at least throwing in the 70's are going to hit plenty of pop-ups as well.

 

[El Floppo]

What?

Even in the home run derby with the best hitters in the game playing against intentionally soft pitchers a punch of random kids in the outfield catch fly balls on swings that don't go out of the park.

And the chances are probably decent that the hockey team has at least one guy that can throw a decent fast ball.  Not good by any stretch but more challenging than the home run derby slow pitch softball stuff.

If a juiced up Mark Mcguire swinging against essentially underhand pitches pops out 3 times for every 10 home runs in the home run derby then lessor hitters against a guy at least throwing in the 70's are going to hit plenty of pop-ups as well.

I'm on your side here, but Home run derby is guys swinging hard to go yard... not how they would be swinging in a real game. 

 

[TLEF316]

Yeah the home run derby argument is irrelevant.  If the hitters know that the only objective is to not make outs, they'll pop line drives and hard grounders past the infielders until everyone falls asleep.

This is assuming that whichever nhl'er is on the mound can get his 65 mph'er meatball in the strike zone 3 out of 7 times, which I think is unlikely

 

[Short Corner]

Except fighting is part of the sport in hockey.  Take a couple 5 minute majors--no problem.  Even a man down they'll score, and by the third period there won't be a baseball team.

Yeah...and have the first couple of MLB guys buzz the tower and your rec league 65 mph pitcher will be useless, ducking phantom line drives before the ball reaches the plate.

 

[gianmarco]

Yeah...and have the first couple of MLB guys buzz the tower and your rec league 65 mph pitcher will be useless, ducking phantom line drives before the ball reaches the plate.

Not to mention baseball is known for retaliation. Think they forget all those slap shots hurled at them? Stand in the box against an MLB pitcher throwing 90+. And knowing they're going to score at will, doubt they mind a few runs scored from some bean balls.