I think Lebron is Better than Jordan (1 Viewer)

[sports_fan]

LeBron's going to blow past him numbers wise. Both regular season and playoffs. LeBron has about 50 more playoff games under his belt than MJ had at the same age. Number of titles is really the only thing in question. But since that's all that matters LeBron still has a lot of work to do.

 

[cstu]

Here's what Lebron did in his title runs with the Heat against teams with 50+ wins:

2010: 10-6 vs. two 50+ win teams (Celtics/Mavs) and one 60+ win team (Bulls) in the last three series - Lost to the Mavs in the Finals

2011: 12-6 vs. two 39+ win teams (Pacers/Celtics) one 47+ win team (Thunder) in the last three series (wins pro-rated for the shortened season)

2012: 4-3 vs. one 50+ win team (Spurs) in the Finals

 

[Popinski]

Doing a lot more wit much less as far as his team in concerned. Jordan was surrounded by crazy talent.

Obviously before the Miami era, but Miami has more talent outside of Lebron than Chicago with MJ...

Pippen and Rodman >>> Wade and Bosh

Pippen averaged 17.7 ppg with CHI, Wade on the other hand 24.3 w/MIA(over 20 w/Bron)Bosh is 10x the scorer that Rodman was.....really apples to oranges.

Real question is, which team would win now!!!

Pippen who I hated when he played, was an 8-time all defensive first team player, has double the amount of career rebounds and steals than Wade does, and almost averaged the same amount of assists. I don't think Wade is in Pippen's tier, and I don't think Bosh is in Rodman's either. Horace Grant and Bosh, now we're talking.

Wade in his prime was clearly better than Pippen. But I'd give Pippen the edge if we are comparing their impacts in these respective 3 year stretches. For one, Wade just doesn't play as much due to injuries, and second, Pippen's game is much better suited to be a superstar's sidekick.

Bosh - Rodman is close, but I'd probably take Rodman for the first of the 3 years and then Bosh for the next two. Rodman's defense dropped off some (partially contributed to by his desire to maintain his rebounding numbers) after the 72 win season, and in particular was a bit of a letdown in the postseason. He wasn't the same player he was in Detroit. In fact, I can't think of any other player that I'd like to see defend LeBron than the Pistons' Rodman.

I don't agree with any of this except Rodman was better in Detroit than he was in Chicago, but it is pretty close. I think Rodman is exponentially better than Bosh, but maybe that's because I just don't think that much of Bosh.

The Bulls' Rodman is exponentially better? Seriously? Do you realize how little Rodman contributed to and how disinterested he was offensively when he was with Chicago?

The Wade argument is weak because had Pippen sat out half the season for his last X amount of years like Wade does, he'd have had better average statistics. Wade is a great player, but he's a sidekick also IMO. He never won without Shaq or LeBron, and never will. :shrug

Which Wade argument? I said Pippen had more impact than the current version of Wade. And I already factored in the Wade's health issues. But Wade in his prime was absolutely better than Pippen. He was a lead superstar who lead his team to a title (2006 Shaq was clearly second fiddle at that point), which Pippen never did. He was absolutely dominant at his best, and is in the discussion for greatest prime for a SG not named Jordan.

 

[TheWalkmen]

Jordan averaged 37+ points in his second full season and followed that up with 35+. Lebron has never sniffed those totals. Jordan won 3 rings, took of 2+ years to play baseball, then comes back and wins 3 more, including winning it all his first year back. Then at age 40 he comes back again and averages 20. The guys does all this against guys who don't wear fake glasses and bow ties. Jordan >>>>> Lebron and it will never be debatable.

 

[TheWalkmen]

Jordan is better than LeBron. You just knew going into every playoff series that Jordan would carry the team to victory. With LJ, that confidence isn't there.

How did that work out in 1987? 1988? 1989? 1990? 1995?

See, this is my problem with some Jordan fans: they act like he prevented the Bulls from ever losing, when that was not true. Yes, they won six titles, but they also lost plenty of playoff games and series, as well.

No one is talking about him dominating before 1991. He was a finesse player early in his career (6-6, 195) but was a very different player after he put on 20 lbs. of muscle. Remember that the game back then was physical and teams could get away with things they'd never be able to today.

Of course he lost games but he never lost a playoff series for the Bulls when he was playing the whole season.

1991: 8-1 vs. two 50+ win teams (Pistons/Lakers) in the last two series

1992: 12-7 vs. three 50+ win teams (Knicks/Cavs/Blazers) in the last three series

1993: 12-4 vs. one 50+ win team (Cavs) and two 60+ win teams (Knicks/Suns) in the last three series

1996: 8-2 vs. two 60+ win teams (Magic/Sonics) in the last two series

1997: 12-4 vs. one 50+ win team (Hawks) and two 60+ win teams (Heat/Jazz) in the last three series

1998: 12-4 vs. two 50+ win team (Hornets/Pacers) and one 60+ win team (Jazz) in the last three series

1995 does not belong in a reasonable discussion.

What about Jordans 70+ win season.

MJ helped make BJ freaking Armstrong an all-star. Craig freaking Hodges was a stud with Jordan around. Chris Collins, while his dad was the Bulls coach, could have averaged 20+ as a teammate of Jordan as a 13 yr old.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Jordan averaged 37+ points in his second full season and followed that up with 35+. Lebron has never sniffed those totals. Jordan won 3 rings, took of 2+ years to play baseball, then comes back and wins 3 more, including winning it all his first year back. Then at age 40 he comes back again and averages 20. The guys does all this against guys who don't wear fake glasses and bow ties. Jordan >>>>> Lebron and it will never be debatable.

Thanks for that simplistic analysis.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Jordan averaged 37+ points in his second full season and followed that up with 35+. Lebron has never sniffed those totals. Jordan won 3 rings, took of 2+ years to play baseball, then comes back and wins 3 more, including winning it all his first year back. Then at age 40 he comes back again and averages 20. The guys does all this against guys who don't wear fake glasses and bow ties. Jordan >>>>> Lebron and it will never be debatable.

Thanks for that simplistic analysis.

sometimes simple is best...too much analysis and not enough pure simple truth...Lebron is NO Jordan ...live with it

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Doing a lot more wit much less as far as his team in concerned. Jordan was surrounded by crazy talent. No college to prime in for Lebron. I keep hearing the Kobe comparison. He's better right now than Jordan was. Jordan's best evening on the court is better than Lebron's perhaps, but overall Lebron is better. ####, Wade is about where Jordan was at.

And yes, I grew up watching Jordan. I'm not some new-school punk.

Didn't the Heat win a championship with Wade pre-James era?

The point being the Bulls would have never sniffed a championship with that "crazy" lineup without MICHAEL!

 

[Ghost Rider]

Jordan averaged 37+ points in his second full season and followed that up with 35+. Lebron has never sniffed those totals. Jordan won 3 rings, took of 2+ years to play baseball, then comes back and wins 3 more, including winning it all his first year back. Then at age 40 he comes back again and averages 20. The guys does all this against guys who don't wear fake glasses and bow ties. Jordan >>>>> Lebron and it will never be debatable.

Thanks for that simplistic analysis.

sometimes simple is best...too much analysis and not enough pure simple truth...Lebron is NO Jordan ...live with it

At this point, I agree. But he could be as good as him someday. Too soon to tell. Which is why it is stupid to say it will never be debatable, which says more about the close-minded nature of that person than it does about the actual debate.

 

[Abraham]

Anyone thinking Miami doesn't currently have four hall of famers is deluded.

That said, Scottie pippen is still wildly underrated. He and Jordan together needed very little help to get the job done.

Yeah, put me down as not on board with the notion that Wade in his prime was better than Pippen in his, to put it mildly.

There are actually people that think this?

Pippen was a better overall player than Wade but not by a huge margin. Not the best players to compare to each other. Pippen was a demon on defense but offensively Wade is better.

Compare wades offensive numbers playing next to Lebron with pippens offensive numbers playing next to Jordan. Wade is a better offensive player and a historically great finisher around the rim. But the difference when playing next to another all time great isn't huge.

 

[fantasycurse42]

James is a freakish athlete at 6'8" 260, he's got that on Jordan, and that's all.

Jordan out-worked everyone, had more skills, & if you're going to say you want the ball in anyone's hands except MJ with the game on the line, then you need to remove yourself from all basketball related conversations.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Doing a lot more wit much less as far as his team in concerned. Jordan was surrounded by crazy talent. No college to prime in for Lebron. I keep hearing the Kobe comparison. He's better right now than Jordan was. Jordan's best evening on the court is better than Lebron's perhaps, but overall Lebron is better. ####, Wade is about where Jordan was at.

And yes, I grew up watching Jordan. I'm not some new-school punk.

Didn't the Heat win a championship with Wade pre-James era?

The point being the Bulls would have never sniffed a championship with that "crazy" lineup without MICHAEL!

You've heard of Shaquille O'Neil right? He was a basketball player in the 90s/00s that was pretty good.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Doing a lot more wit much less as far as his team in concerned. Jordan was surrounded by crazy talent. No college to prime in for Lebron. I keep hearing the Kobe comparison. He's better right now than Jordan was. Jordan's best evening on the court is better than Lebron's perhaps, but overall Lebron is better. ####, Wade is about where Jordan was at.

And yes, I grew up watching Jordan. I'm not some new-school punk.

Didn't the Heat win a championship with Wade pre-James era?

The point being the Bulls would have never sniffed a championship with that "crazy" lineup without MICHAEL!

You've heard of Shaquille O'Neil right? He was a basketball player in the 90s/00s that was pretty good.

Wasn't he the center for the Western University Dolphins? Think you got your teams mixed up.

 

[TheWalkmen]

I'm looking at a list of Lebrons 50+ point games, and playoff games are denoted (PO), but none of the games are denoted (PO).

Jordan Averaged 40+ in 5 playoff series.

 

[TheWalkmen]

Oh yeah, Jordan played 11 full years before his 2 years in Washington at age 39-40.

Lebron is in his 11th full year.

 

[fantasycurse42]

<----------- really looking forward to (& hoping) the SWCer chimes in

10 user(s) are reading this topic

9 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

fantasycurse42, TheWalkmen, WhatDoIKnow, xulf, nightmare, sports_fan, SWC, The General, cstu

 

[SWC]

you can not compare across generations the game changes teams change rules change how the refs call it change and so on if you want to talk rings it was russel hands down if you want to talk biggest name and fame and competitive drive it was jordan hands down if you want to talk the perfect basketball speciment it is labron for sure but you know what who cares who is the best out of them getting to see them play is a gift we all get to enjoy and i do not put much stock in saying who is best or not because in the end who even cares what some dummy like me says am i going to get up to heaven and have god say man swcer you sure nailed it in that one jordan versus labron thread here is a huge mansion inside the kingdom nah brahan that probably is not happening so long story short just watch the game enjoy it and take that to the bank

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Jordan averaged 37+ points in his second full season and followed that up with 35+. Lebron has never sniffed those totals. Jordan won 3 rings, took of 2+ years to play baseball, then comes back and wins 3 more, including winning it all his first year back. Then at age 40 he comes back again and averages 20. The guys does all this against guys who don't wear fake glasses and bow ties. Jordan >>>>> Lebron and it will never be debatable.

If you don't think LeBron could average 37+, well, you'd be very wrong.

 

[TheWalkmen]

Jordan averaged 37+ points in his second full season and followed that up with 35+. Lebron has never sniffed those totals. Jordan won 3 rings, took of 2+ years to play baseball, then comes back and wins 3 more, including winning it all his first year back. Then at age 40 he comes back again and averages 20. The guys does all this against guys who don't wear fake glasses and bow ties. Jordan >>>>> Lebron and it will never be debatable.

If you don't think LeBron could average 37+, well, you'd be very wrong.

Could Lebron win 6 titles in his first 11 full seasons, as Jordan did? Lebron will never accomplish what Jordan did in the same time span.

 

[Jayrod]

you can not compare across generations the game changes teams change rules change how the refs call it change and so on if you want to talk rings it was russel hands down if you want to talk biggest name and fame and competitive drive it was jordan hands down if you want to talk the perfect basketball speciment it is labron for sure but you know what who cares who is the best out of them getting to see them play is a gift we all get to enjoy and i do not put much stock in saying who is best or not because in the end who even cares what some dummy like me says am i going to get up to heaven and have god say man swcer you sure nailed it in that one jordan versus labron thread here is a huge mansion inside the kingdom nah brahan that probably is not happening so long story short just watch the game enjoy it and take that to the bank

nailed it

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Jordan averaged 37+ points in his second full season and followed that up with 35+. Lebron has never sniffed those totals. Jordan won 3 rings, took of 2+ years to play baseball, then comes back and wins 3 more, including winning it all his first year back. Then at age 40 he comes back again and averages 20. The guys does all this against guys who don't wear fake glasses and bow ties. Jordan >>>>> Lebron and it will never be debatable.

If you don't think LeBron could average 37+, well, you'd be very wrong.

I'm not ready to say LeBron is better than Jordan, but I think he could score 35 points a game pretty much whenver he wanted. He averaged 35 points a game in the playoffs when he led that horrible Cleveland team to the finals.

Cleveland won 66 and 61 games in LeBron's last two years there, they won 19 the year after he left. Bulls won 57 the year before Jordan went to play baseball, they won 55 the year after. Yeah they won a championship that year before but Lebron essentially was playing by himself in Cleveland and they were damn good.

 

[timschochet]

LeBron James is the best basketball player I have ever seen, hands down.

BUT- if we were having an all time draft and I had first pick, I would pick Shaquille O' Neil. Due to his skills, position, and size, he was the most impactful NBA player of all time.

 

[Abraham]

LeBron James is the best basketball player I have ever seen, hands down.

BUT- if we were having an all time draft and I had first pick, I would pick Shaquille O' Neil. Due to his skills, position, and size, he was the most impactful NBA player of all time.

Time has made you forget so many things. Lebron is perhaps the most physically gifted athlete of our time, but Michael Jordan Never had an off night or a night where killing his opponent wasn't his focusFor a game of 1-on1 or 3-on-3 of 5 on 5 with your life at stake, Michael Jordan is the easy easy choice.

 

[Tau837]

The following things make me believe Jordan was a greater player than Lebron:

1. More titles

2. More honors (more MVPs, more Finals MVPs, more All NBA selections, more All Defense selections, DPOY)

3. Played tougher competition in his conference and in the playoffs, yet still won and dominated while doing so

4. Better in the clutch (not that Lebron isn't great, just not on Jordan's level IMO)

5. The eye test, having watched all of both of their careers (not every game, but many, including most playoff games)

IMO their supporting casts are close enough to be a wash. IMO Lebron's supporting cast in Miami is better than Jordan's in the first threepeat and similar, perhaps not quite as good, as Jordan's in the second threepeat.

Sure, Lebron will most likely end up with better statistics, mostly due to the fact that he will play many more games. And he will probably catch and surpass Jordan in some of the honors.

But in the total picture, Jordan was greater IMO. And, while Lebron is probably closer to Jordan than any other player in NBA history, there is still a sizable gap there IMO.

 

[Daywalker]

I sure hope Lebron bought Ray Allen a new car or something.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

The following things make me believe Jordan was a greater player than Lebron:

1. More titles

2. More honors (more MVPs, more Finals MVPs, more All NBA selections, more All Defense selections, DPOY)

3. Played tougher competition in his conference and in the playoffs, yet still won and dominated while doing so

4. Better in the clutch (not that Lebron isn't great, just not on Jordan's level IMO)

5. The eye test, having watched all of both of their careers (not every game, but many, including most playoff games)

IMO their supporting casts are close enough to be a wash. IMO Lebron's supporting cast in Miami is better than Jordan's in the first threepeat and similar, perhaps not quite as good, as Jordan's in the second threepeat.

Sure, Lebron will most likely end up with better statistics, mostly due to the fact that he will play many more games. And he will probably catch and surpass Jordan in some of the honors.

But in the total picture, Jordan was greater IMO. And, while Lebron is probably closer to Jordan than any other player in NBA history, there is still a sizable gap there IMO.

I can buy a lot of this, especially #3. Good write-up regardless of what side you are on.

 

[Daywalker]

The following things make me believe Jordan was a greater player than Lebron:

1. More titles

2. More honors (more MVPs, more Finals MVPs, more All NBA selections, more All Defense selections, DPOY)

3. Played tougher competition in his conference and in the playoffs, yet still won and dominated while doing so

4. Better in the clutch (not that Lebron isn't great, just not on Jordan's level IMO)

5. The eye test, having watched all of both of their careers (not every game, but many, including most playoff games)

IMO their supporting casts are close enough to be a wash. IMO Lebron's supporting cast in Miami is better than Jordan's in the first threepeat and similar, perhaps not quite as good, as Jordan's in the second threepeat.

Sure, Lebron will most likely end up with better statistics, mostly due to the fact that he will play many more games. And he will probably catch and surpass Jordan in some of the honors.

But in the total picture, Jordan was greater IMO. And, while Lebron is probably closer to Jordan than any other player in NBA history, there is still a sizable gap there IMO.

 

[BassNBrew]

The following things make me believe Jordan was a greater player than Lebron:

1. More titles

2. More honors (more MVPs, more Finals MVPs, more All NBA selections, more All Defense selections, DPOY)

3. Played tougher competition in his conference and in the playoffs, yet still won and dominated while doing so

4. Better in the clutch (not that Lebron isn't great, just not on Jordan's level IMO)

5. The eye test, having watched all of both of their careers (not every game, but many, including most playoff games)

IMO their supporting casts are close enough to be a wash. IMO Lebron's supporting cast in Miami is better than Jordan's in the first threepeat and similar, perhaps not quite as good, as Jordan's in the second threepeat.

Sure, Lebron will most likely end up with better statistics, mostly due to the fact that he will play many more games. And he will probably catch and surpass Jordan in some of the honors.

But in the total picture, Jordan was greater IMO. And, while Lebron is probably closer to Jordan than any other player in NBA history, there is still a sizable gap there IMO.

 

[DrJ]

Jordan is better than LeBron. You just knew going into every playoff series that Jordan would carry the team to victory. With LJ, that confidence isn't there.

How did that work out in 1987? 1988? 1989? 1990? 1995?

See, this is my problem with some Jordan fans: they act like he prevented the Bulls from ever losing, when that was not true. Yes, they won six titles, but they also lost plenty of playoff games and series, as well.

No one is talking about him dominating before 1991. He was a finesse player early in his career (6-6, 195) but was a very different player after he put on 20 lbs. of muscle. Remember that the game back then was physical and teams could get away with things they'd never be able to today.

Of course he lost games but he never lost a playoff series for the Bulls when he was playing the whole season.

1991: 8-1 vs. two 50+ win teams (Pistons/Lakers) in the last two series

1992: 12-7 vs. three 50+ win teams (Knicks/Cavs/Blazers) in the last three series

1993: 12-4 vs. one 50+ win team (Cavs) and two 60+ win teams (Knicks/Suns) in the last three series

1996: 8-2 vs. two 60+ win teams (Magic/Sonics) in the last two series

1997: 12-4 vs. one 50+ win team (Hawks) and two 60+ win teams (Heat/Jazz) in the last three series

1998: 12-4 vs. two 50+ win team (Hornets/Pacers) and one 60+ win team (Jazz) in the last three series

1995 does not belong in a reasonable discussion.

What about Jordans 70+ win season.

MJ helped make BJ freaking Armstrong an all-star. Craig freaking Hodges was a stud with Jordan around. Chris Collins, while his dad was the Bulls coach, could have averaged 20+ as a teammate of Jordan as a 13 yr old.

By retiring... BJ's AS appearance was during the 55 win Scottie season where he was asked to pick up the slack at G due to Jordan being gone.

 

[BassNBrew]

LeBron James is the best basketball player I have ever seen, hands down.

BUT- if we were having an all time draft and I had first pick, I would pick Shaquille O' Neil. Due to his skills, position, and size, he was the most impactful NBA player of all time.

Well this pretty much seals it that Jordan was the best.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Michael never had a playoff meltdown and presumably never will.

Michael and lebron can't get there

 

[Zigg]

LeBron James is the best basketball player I have ever seen, hands down.

BUT- if we were having an all time draft and I had first pick, I would pick Shaquille O' Neil. Due to his skills, position, and size, he was the most impactful NBA player of all time.

Time has made you forget so many things. Lebron is perhaps the most physically gifted athlete of our time, but Michael Jordan Never had an off night or a night where killing his opponent wasn't his focusFor a game of 1-on1 or 3-on-3 of 5 on 5 with your life at stake, Michael Jordan is the easy easy choice.

Jordan was an incredible player, but people tend to go way overboard nowadays when he is discussed. He had plenty of high volume/low percentage nights the second time around. Obviously he was older, but those teams were stacked, and had moderate success without him. The second 3-peat teams were built brilliantly.

 

[BassNBrew]

Jordan averaged 37+ points in his second full season and followed that up with 35+. Lebron has never sniffed those totals. Jordan won 3 rings, took of 2+ years to play baseball, then comes back and wins 3 more, including winning it all his first year back. Then at age 40 he comes back again and averages 20. The guys does all this against guys who don't wear fake glasses and bow ties. Jordan >>>>> Lebron and it will never be debatable.

If you don't think LeBron could average 37+, well, you'd be very wrong.

I'm not ready to say LeBron is better than Jordan, but I think he could score 35 points a game pretty much whenver he wanted. He averaged 35 points a game in the playoffs when he led that horrible Cleveland team to the finals.

Cleveland won 66 and 61 games in LeBron's last two years there, they won 19 the year after he left. Bulls won 57 the year before Jordan went to play baseball, they won 55 the year after. Yeah they won a championship that year before but Lebron essentially was playing by himself in Cleveland and they were damn good.

Jordan was so good that his work ethic and greatness rubbed off on inferior players allowing them to excel in his absence.

 

[Abraham]

LeBron James is the best basketball player I have ever seen, hands down.

BUT- if we were having an all time draft and I had first pick, I would pick Shaquille O' Neil. Due to his skills, position, and size, he was the most impactful NBA player of all time.

Time has made you forget so many things. Lebron is perhaps the most physically gifted athlete of our time, but Michael Jordan Never had an off night or a night where killing his opponent wasn't his focusFor a game of 1-on1 or 3-on-3 of 5 on 5 with your life at stake, Michael Jordan is the easy easy choice.

Jordan was an incredible player, but people tend to go way overboard nowadays when he is discussed. He had plenty of high volume/low percentage nights the second time around. Obviously he was older, but those teams were stacked, and had moderate success without him. The second 3-peat teams were built brilliantly.

May I ask how old you are?

 

[DrJ]

LeBron James is the best basketball player I have ever seen, hands down.

BUT- if we were having an all time draft and I had first pick, I would pick Shaquille O' Neil. Due to his skills, position, and size, he was the most impactful NBA player of all time.

Time has made you forget so many things. Lebron is perhaps the most physically gifted athlete of our time, but Michael Jordan Never had an off night or a night where killing his opponent wasn't his focusFor a game of 1-on1 or 3-on-3 of 5 on 5 with your life at stake, Michael Jordan is the easy easy choice.

Jordan was an incredible player, but people tend to go way overboard nowadays when he is discussed. He had plenty of high volume/low percentage nights the second time around. Obviously he was older, but those teams were stacked, and had moderate success without him. The second 3-peat teams were built brilliantly.

Those years are really the only thing that keeps Lebron in this conversation. Pre retirement Jordan took his playoff game to heights Lebron hasn't come close to approaching yet. The latter version actually dulls his averages enough to make this comparison seem reasonable.

 

[Abraham]

LeBron James is the best basketball player I have ever seen, hands down.

BUT- if we were having an all time draft and I had first pick, I would pick Shaquille O' Neil. Due to his skills, position, and size, he was the most impactful NBA player of all time.

Time has made you forget so many things. Lebron is perhaps the most physically gifted athlete of our time, but Michael Jordan Never had an off night or a night where killing his opponent wasn't his focusFor a game of 1-on1 or 3-on-3 of 5 on 5 with your life at stake, Michael Jordan is the easy easy choice.

Jordan was an incredible player, but people tend to go way overboard nowadays when he is discussed. He had plenty of high volume/low percentage nights the second time around. Obviously he was older, but those teams were stacked, and had moderate success without him. The second 3-peat teams were built brilliantly.

Those years are really the only thing that keeps Lebron in this conversation. Pre retirement Jordan took his playoff game to heights Lebron hasn't come close to approaching yet. The latter version actually dulls his averages enough to make this comparison seem reasonable.

Yup. And the second three includes a 70 win season and two finals victories over a team with two hall of famers in their primes.

 

[DrJ]

LeBron James is the best basketball player I have ever seen, hands down.

BUT- if we were having an all time draft and I had first pick, I would pick Shaquille O' Neil. Due to his skills, position, and size, he was the most impactful NBA player of all time.

Time has made you forget so many things. Lebron is perhaps the most physically gifted athlete of our time, but Michael Jordan Never had an off night or a night where killing his opponent wasn't his focusFor a game of 1-on1 or 3-on-3 of 5 on 5 with your life at stake, Michael Jordan is the easy easy choice.

Jordan was an incredible player, but people tend to go way overboard nowadays when he is discussed. He had plenty of high volume/low percentage nights the second time around. Obviously he was older, but those teams were stacked, and had moderate success without him. The second 3-peat teams were built brilliantly.

Those years are really the only thing that keeps Lebron in this conversation. Pre retirement Jordan took his playoff game to heights Lebron hasn't come close to approaching yet. The latter version actually dulls his averages enough to make this comparison seem reasonable.

Yup. And the second three includes a 70 win season and two finals victories over a team with two hall of famers in their primes.

Indeed. But he did show signs of being human, and if that's the Jordan you remember then I can see the case being made for Lebron.

Personally, I think that Lebron has the physical ability to win this. Like others have stated, in terms of being a physical specimen he probably wins. He should be able to just take over a game and demoralize his opponents. But I've never actually seen him do it in a way that pre retirement Jordan did as he's trying to play facilitator instead. And he really doesn't get a higher volume of assists as a result, he's at 6.7 a game in the playoffs right now and pre retirement Jordan was at 6.6.

 

[Zigg]

LeBron James is the best basketball player I have ever seen, hands down.

BUT- if we were having an all time draft and I had first pick, I would pick Shaquille O' Neil. Due to his skills, position, and size, he was the most impactful NBA player of all time.

Time has made you forget so many things. Lebron is perhaps the most physically gifted athlete of our time, but Michael Jordan Never had an off night or a night where killing his opponent wasn't his focusFor a game of 1-on1 or 3-on-3 of 5 on 5 with your life at stake, Michael Jordan is the easy easy choice.

Jordan was an incredible player, but people tend to go way overboard nowadays when he is discussed. He had plenty of high volume/low percentage nights the second time around. Obviously he was older, but those teams were stacked, and had moderate success without him. The second 3-peat teams were built brilliantly.

May I ask how old you are?

35, I saw plenty of Jordan.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Jordan is still tops. By a lot. A whole lot.

 

[Abraham]

Nice post. I ducking hated Michael Jordan but I'm not stupid. People remember him as a hyper competitive scorer but he was so much more than that. He could not really guard Patrick Ewing but he could guard spots 1-3 better than anyone in the game and guard a power forward pretty well too. He also passed extremely well. The first title he averaged 31/8.5 assists/6.5 boards. That's nuts.

 

[NREC34]

I think finless should've stuck with Tiger opinions.

 

[DrJ]

Nice post. I ducking hated Michael Jordan but I'm not stupid. People remember him as a hyper competitive scorer but he was so much more than that. He could guard Patrick Ewing but he could guard spots 1-3 better than anyone in the game and guard a power forward pretty well too. He also passed extremely well. The first title he averaged 31/8.5 assists/6.5 boards. That's nuts.

No doubt - every bit as disruptive on the defensive end as Lebron is. So many of the points those Bulls were getting was off of transition due to the Jordan / Pippen doberman D. Both of those guys were so incredible on the defensive end that they just roamed where ever they pleased wreaking absolute havoc on the passing lanes. Which is why he was getting 2.5 steals a game during that time. And then they'd beat you to the other end of the court for an easy 2. He was also a better shot blocker than Lebron, despite Lebron clearly having the superior body type for that role.

 

[DrJ]

Couple of sick passes by Jordan in these doberman clips. Man, those were some great times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs2zJNhngmo

Couple more highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjYszEJslMU

One thing that really stands out though is how unselfish Scottie was - almost always looking to get Jordan the points on these breakaways. Lebron is like a roided up version of Pippen.

 

[Britney Spears]

Couple of sick passes by Jordan in these doberman clips. Man, those were some great times.

Jordan is still better, but boy does it stand out just how slow looking defenses were back then.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Couple of sick passes by Jordan in these doberman clips. Man, those were some great times.

The athletes are better today, the old guys will even tell you this. But I think the team game, the sense of purpose in rivalries because not everyone was buddies off the court, and the coachability of players makes up for the athletic difference.

 

[DrJ]

Couple of sick passes by Jordan in these doberman clips. Man, those were some great times.

Not a whole lot of set defense though - they had this routine completely perfected. It's almost like the Lovie Bears when they'd be blocking downfield off of a turnover - they knew how to take it and make you pay.

 

[DrJ]

Couple of sick passes by Jordan in these doberman clips. Man, those were some great times.

And you could beat the crap out of people.

It also wasn't the business that it is today - Sterling bought the Clippers for 12 million not too far off of this time period. Jordan wasn't even getting paid all that much money in the grand scheme of things for a pretty long time, he was making something like 2 million a year before things got really huge and I think Hulk Hogan was the highest paid athlete at some point during this period. So yeah, a lot more guys are willing to pump themselves full of PED's today for 7 figures.

Here's his early salaries: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-373245.html

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Couple of sick passes by Jordan in these doberman clips. Man, those were some great times.

Not bad for a guy who was told he wasnt very good in high school

 

[TheWalkmen]

Those saying Lebron could average more points - why isn't he? He's just so modest that he wants to have a lower average? And Jordan maxed out his avg points; it wasn't possible for Jordan to avg more? I don't get that argument.

 

[Abraham]

Those saying Lebron could average more points - why isn't he? He's just so modest that he wants to have a lower average? And Jordan maxed out his avg points; it wasn't possible for Jordan to avg more? I don't get that argument.

The standard response is that if Lebron scored more it would reduce the teams ability to win. Aside from the fact that the most efficient scorer in the league shooting more is mathematically more advantageous then dishing it to Mario charmers and Norris cole, it also illustrates that Michael Jordan scored more and also won more. So there is that.