The Vikings offseason = effing Trainwreck (1 Viewer)

[Bull Dozier]

Regardless, I think the burden of proof remains with you to show why minor injuries, which have cost Moss exactly zero games (the games he missed were due to hammys) in his career, are going to somehow end his career early, or significantly reduce his production faster than a normal decline for a player of his caliber.

Wrong again. The burden of truth does not rest on me to prove my opinion nor on you to disprove my opinion. The burden of proof will be delivered by time, at which point we can retroactively acknowledge who was right and who was wrong in hindsight. But until then, you can either choose to agree or disagree with my opinion. But don't try to discredit my oppinion with your own opinion because our opinions carry the same weight on the message boards.

If we are exchanging opinion (according to you), how am I wrong again?You're challenging me to prove you wrong as far as Moss' injury history, and what it forshadows. I've given you one example of a player that refutes what you've claimed. You've given no examples of what you're predicting.

Obviously the proof will be in the pudding, at the end of this season, next and five years down the line. But if you're trying to make an arguement, and back it up with reason, you haven't done a very good job of it. Obviously we're just throwing opinions around on a message board, and mine means no more than yours, but at least I've tried to back up my claims with some sort of evidence and reason.

 

[BlueOnion]

You gave me one name, Isaac Bruce and referenced one injury 'hamstring'. For which I will give you Herman Moore (same body type as Moss).

 

[NoCheese]

 

[Bull Dozier]

You gave me one name, Isaac Bruce and referenced one injury 'hamstring'.

For which I will give you Herman Moore (same body type as Moss).

Can you expand on Herman Moore's injury history? I know he missed several games early in his career, had a long healthy streak, and ended with injuries at the end. From what I can tell, the injury that effectively ended his career was a torn hip muslce. Non of this appears to be similar to Moss, unless you have more detailed info of his early career injuries.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Blue:

Talked with my scout buddy.  It basically looks like what I thought: they had Williamson and Williams as 1A and 1B.  He described Williams as a great athlete.  The deciding factor was "fit"; as you described before they wanted someone to stretch the field.  Burleson and Robinson sure aren't going to do that.  Also the Vikings never had a problem in the red zone; they don't need another big body to go up and get jump balls.  They need someone who is capable of outrunning Culpepper's arm.  I am beginning to believe more and more that Williamson was the right pick for this team.

Interestingly enough I just looked up Nate Burleson's 40 yard dash time from his combine: 4.59 - almost exactly what Williams was clocked at.  We did not need another possession receiver.  The "fit" certainly wasn't there.....

I suspected as much, given that he probably was for Williamson or was sold on Williamson by the upper-ups of the organization.But those are some valid points; Burleson's 40 time and somebody to outrun Culpeper's arm.

I should also acknowledge that if Burleson can be some sort of a deep threat at 4.59, Mike Williams must have the same capabilities. Though I still question Mike Williams' 40 time.

Edited to add: Thanks for the update Muwahaha

I saw some video of Mike Williams Pro Day; omg was he coached up. Never seen anybody take 3 minutes to set up and spend so much time getting into his obviously overcoached starting position. It is hilarious how long it takes.As for my scout friend being influenced by higher management. You would quickly take that back if you ever met him. He has been in the football business for longer than I have been alive. He is semi-retired and would shove this job in a minute. He tells it like it is. Could not be more of an independent thinker and has voiced many other disagreements with other Vikings moves. If he thinks Williamson is the real deal you can take it to the bank. He had less than a shining view of another famously ex-Vikings player...

Very nice. Here's a point that seems to get overlooked...why do we need Williams when Wiggins proved to be an absolute beast on <10 yard receptions?

 

[John 14:6]

Blue:

Talked with my scout buddy. It basically looks like what I thought: they had Williamson and Williams as 1A and 1B. He described Williams as a great athlete. The deciding factor was "fit"; as you described before they wanted someone to stretch the field. Burleson and Robinson sure aren't going to do that. Also the Vikings never had a problem in the red zone; they don't need another big body to go up and get jump balls. They need someone who is capable of outrunning Culpepper's arm. I am beginning to believe more and more that Williamson was the right pick for this team.

Interestingly enough I just looked up Nate Burleson's 40 yard dash time from his combine: 4.59 - almost exactly what Williams was clocked at. We did not need another possession receiver. The "fit" certainly wasn't there.....

There's a Packer fan on KFAN radio here in MN (Dave Sinakin (sp)). After the draft he was talking about how the Vikings should have taken Michael Williams. His co-host (Trent Tucker) was bringing up the same stuff mentioned here, that Williamson can stretch the field better. Dave replied that the Vikings were saying one of the reasons they traded Moss was because they wanted to go to more of a ball control offense, so why draft a guy that doesn't fit that scheme?

 

[Muahahaha]

Blue:

Talked with my scout buddy. It basically looks like what I thought: they had Williamson and Williams as 1A and 1B. He described Williams as a great athlete. The deciding factor was "fit"; as you described before they wanted someone to stretch the field. Burleson and Robinson sure aren't going to do that. Also the Vikings never had a problem in the red zone; they don't need another big body to go up and get jump balls. They need someone who is capable of outrunning Culpepper's arm. I am beginning to believe more and more that Williamson was the right pick for this team.

Interestingly enough I just looked up Nate Burleson's 40 yard dash time from his combine: 4.59 - almost exactly what Williams was clocked at. We did not need another possession receiver. The "fit" certainly wasn't there.....

There's a Packer fan on KFAN radio here in MN (Dave Sinakin (sp)). After the draft he was talking about how the Vikings should have taken Michael Williams. His co-host (Trent Tucker) was bringing up the same stuff mentioned here, that Williamson can stretch the field better. Dave replied that the Vikings were saying one of the reasons they traded Moss was because they wanted to go to more of a ball control offense, so why draft a guy that doesn't fit that scheme?

Hmm. Good point. Doesn't appear to be a logical choice given the stated goal of developing a ball control offense. However I think that in this case "ball control scheme" implies more for what the Vikings intend to do to with their defense than to their offense. Ball control schemes only work if you can stop the other team's passing attack; if they can run down the field and score in 2:00 who cares if you controlled the ball for the previous 7:00. With $9M-$15M of cap space devoted to Moss in the next several years it would have been real tough to develop a strong enough defense to stop anybody in 2:00.

The Moss trade is about winning games 21-14 instead of the 35-31 shootouts of years past. Our defense used to force the Vikings offense to pass. No lead was safe. The team wants to focus more of their cap space on defense. Given Moss' cap numbers trading him was the most logical choice. Then with a better defense they can actually play a field position / ball control game.

 

[John 14:6]

Yesterday they were interviewing Viking DE Lance Johnstone on FSR and asked him some questions about Moss. He said that Moss had kind of a different personality but got along with teammates in the lockerroom "80% of the time." When asked if others would give Moss a hard time about loafing, Johnstone said it was hard to when Randy would "catch a 90 yard TD within 5 minutes." He also said Moss worked his *** off in practice.

 

[BigJim®]

 

[BlueOnion]

You still on this train destined for a wreck? Or did you hop back on?

 

[BigJim®]

Oh yeah, I don't see any way I ever get off the Viking's train. God knows I've had my chances.

 

[BigJim®]

Jim SouhanStar TribuneIn 1990, Vikings General Manager Mike Lynn flew his team to the Pecos River Learning Center in New Mexico, where his previously discordant players endured team-building exercises.During their bye week, the 2005 Vikings tried to recreate the harmony of the Pecos River Gang, assembling on two different bodies of water to hone their cohesiveness.The new team owners met in Chaska, along Lake McKnight, to celebrate their shrewd investment ratio of $600 million per NFL victory.More impressive, many of the players who earned that victory piled onto boats on Lake Minnetonka to engage in rigorous team-building exercises beyond the imagination of even the ingenious Mike Lynn.Yes, new Vikings owner Zygi Wilf has learned that running this particular National Football League team is a bit more complicated than buying a mall.In his first four games at the helm, Wilf watched his well-paid players 1) lose, 2) embarrass themselves, 3) narrowly beat a lousy team; and 4) embarrass themselves.Then came the "bye" week, an opportunity to rest and refocus a failing franchise. The Vikings used their down time thusly:• Head coach Mike Tice hired two retired coaches as "consultants," admitting his staff was dysfunctional.• The owners held their retreat while the franchise became the laughingstock of the NFL.• Prominent players took rented boats onto Lake Minnetonka and allegedly behaved with lewdness shocking to anyone who didn't notice one Viking (Onterrio Smith) getting caught with an Original Whizzinator and another (Kevin Williams) getting arrested for domestic violence.Only our Vikings could make possible the future television series: CSI: Gilligan's Island.There is misbehavior, and then there is Vikings behavior.When Kirby Puckett made alleged advances on a woman in a bar, such conduct was termed a "scandal."When Vikings players turn a rental boat into a floating brothel, such conduct is called a "Thursday."What Zygi must learn about the modern-day NFL is this: You don't want the players who lose games and act offensively. You want the players who win games and fight off felonies.The Ravens won a Super Bowl with a star linebacker, Ray Lewis, who had to defend himself against double-murder charges.The Cowboys won three Super Bowls with receiver Michael Irvin, who was indicted on felony cocaine charges and was found in a motel room with two "self-employed models," drugs, drug paraphernalia, and, we're guessing, a really cool lava lamp.Those Cowboys knew how to conduct themselves like big-time NFL players. Rent a boat? They bought a house -- which would become famously known as "The White House" -- as a home base for their indiscretions.The Vikings can't even acquire first-class miscreants.At this point you would assume that "Zygmunt" is an old Yiddish word meaning "Are you kidding me?"You would be wrong. "Zygmunt" is a German name related to "Sigmund." It was popularized by psychology pioneer and Marvin Gaye lyricist Sigmund Freud. (I know this because I attend the University of Google.)Because Freud made famous the study of the libido, Zygmunt/Sigmund is the perfect name for an owner presiding over the franchise known for the abuses of Arctic Blast and the escapades of Al & Alma's Caligulan Adventures.Last week, we missed only Randy Moss' talent. Today, we miss him as a role model. Oh, for the days when our biggest problems were end zone end-wiggling.Apparently, Vikings players thought the motto of Al & Alma's was "What happens here, stays here." Instead, lurid tales regarding our full-contact freaks will circulate for years, and the worst of them will be those that are true.Today, fresh from their retreat, the Wilfs will question whether they could have spent $600 million on a better Minnesota product, like, oh, say, Spam.Seriously, folks, it's time for the Wilfs to hire consultants other than Jerry Rhome and Foge Fazio. It's time for them to hire Donald Trump to utter the words these sick puppies all deserve to hear:"You're fired."

 

[BigJim®]

Jim Souhan

Star Tribune

In 1990, Vikings General Manager Mike Lynn flew his team to the Pecos River Learning Center in New Mexico, where his previously discordant players endured team-building exercises.

During their bye week, the 2005 Vikings tried to recreate the harmony of the Pecos River Gang, assembling on two different bodies of water to hone their cohesiveness.

The new team owners met in Chaska, along Lake McKnight, to celebrate their shrewd investment ratio of $600 million per NFL victory.

More impressive, many of the players who earned that victory piled onto boats on Lake Minnetonka to engage in rigorous team-building exercises beyond the imagination of even the ingenious Mike Lynn.

Yes, new Vikings owner Zygi Wilf has learned that running this particular National Football League team is a bit more complicated than buying a mall.

In his first four games at the helm, Wilf watched his well-paid players 1) lose, 2) embarrass themselves, 3) narrowly beat a lousy team; and 4) embarrass themselves.

Then came the "bye" week, an opportunity to rest and refocus a failing franchise. The Vikings used their down time thusly:

• Head coach Mike Tice hired two retired coaches as "consultants," admitting his staff was dysfunctional.

• The owners held their retreat while the franchise became the laughingstock of the NFL.

• Prominent players took rented boats onto Lake Minnetonka and allegedly behaved with lewdness shocking to anyone who didn't notice one Viking (Onterrio Smith) getting caught with an Original Whizzinator and another (Kevin Williams) getting arrested for domestic violence.

Only our Vikings could make possible the future television series: CSI: Gilligan's Island.

There is misbehavior, and then there is Vikings behavior.

When Kirby Puckett made alleged advances on a woman in a bar, such conduct was termed a "scandal."

When Vikings players turn a rental boat into a floating brothel, such conduct is called a "Thursday."

What Zygi must learn about the modern-day NFL is this: You don't want the players who lose games and act offensively. You want the players who win games and fight off felonies.

The Ravens won a Super Bowl with a star linebacker, Ray Lewis, who had to defend himself against double-murder charges.

The Cowboys won three Super Bowls with receiver Michael Irvin, who was indicted on felony cocaine charges and was found in a motel room with two "self-employed models," drugs, drug paraphernalia, and, we're guessing, a really cool lava lamp.

Those Cowboys knew how to conduct themselves like big-time NFL players. Rent a boat? They bought a house -- which would become famously known as "The White House" -- as a home base for their indiscretions.

The Vikings can't even acquire first-class miscreants.

At this point you would assume that "Zygmunt" is an old Yiddish word meaning "Are you kidding me?"

You would be wrong. "Zygmunt" is a German name related to "Sigmund." It was popularized by psychology pioneer and Marvin Gaye lyricist Sigmund Freud. (I know this because I attend the University of Google.)

Because Freud made famous the study of the libido, Zygmunt/Sigmund is the perfect name for an owner presiding over the franchise known for the abuses of Arctic Blast and the escapades of Al & Alma's Caligulan Adventures.

Last week, we missed only Randy Moss' talent. Today, we miss him as a role model. Oh, for the days when our biggest problems were end zone end-wiggling.

Apparently, Vikings players thought the motto of Al & Alma's was "What happens here, stays here." Instead, lurid tales regarding our full-contact freaks will circulate for years, and the worst of them will be those that are true.

Today, fresh from their retreat, the Wilfs will question whether they could have spent $600 million on a better Minnesota product, like, oh, say, Spam.

Seriously, folks, it's time for the Wilfs to hire consultants other than Jerry Rhome and Foge Fazio. It's time for them to hire Donald Trump to utter the words these sick puppies all deserve to hear:

"You're fired."

"I find that sort of behavior completely unacceptable."Randy Moss

 

[BigJim®]

Jim Souhan

Star Tribune

In 1990, Vikings General Manager Mike Lynn flew his team to the Pecos River Learning Center in New Mexico, where his previously discordant players endured team-building exercises.

During their bye week, the 2005 Vikings tried to recreate the harmony of the Pecos River Gang, assembling on two different bodies of water to hone their cohesiveness.

The new team owners met in Chaska, along Lake McKnight, to celebrate their shrewd investment ratio of $600 million per NFL victory.

More impressive, many of the players who earned that victory piled onto boats on Lake Minnetonka to engage in rigorous team-building exercises beyond the imagination of even the ingenious Mike Lynn.

Yes, new Vikings owner Zygi Wilf has learned that running this particular National Football League team is a bit more complicated than buying a mall.

In his first four games at the helm, Wilf watched his well-paid players 1) lose, 2) embarrass themselves, 3) narrowly beat a lousy team; and 4) embarrass themselves.

Then came the "bye" week, an opportunity to rest and refocus a failing franchise. The Vikings used their down time thusly:

• Head coach Mike Tice hired two retired coaches as "consultants," admitting his staff was dysfunctional.

• The owners held their retreat while the franchise became the laughingstock of the NFL.

• Prominent players took rented boats onto Lake Minnetonka and allegedly behaved with lewdness shocking to anyone who didn't notice one Viking (Onterrio Smith) getting caught with an Original Whizzinator and another (Kevin Williams) getting arrested for domestic violence.

Only our Vikings could make possible the future television series: CSI: Gilligan's Island.

There is misbehavior, and then there is Vikings behavior.

When Kirby Puckett made alleged advances on a woman in a bar, such conduct was termed a "scandal."

When Vikings players turn a rental boat into a floating brothel, such conduct is called a "Thursday."

What Zygi must learn about the modern-day NFL is this: You don't want the players who lose games and act offensively. You want the players who win games and fight off felonies.

The Ravens won a Super Bowl with a star linebacker, Ray Lewis, who had to defend himself against double-murder charges.

The Cowboys won three Super Bowls with receiver Michael Irvin, who was indicted on felony cocaine charges and was found in a motel room with two "self-employed models," drugs, drug paraphernalia, and, we're guessing, a really cool lava lamp.

Those Cowboys knew how to conduct themselves like big-time NFL players. Rent a boat? They bought a house -- which would become famously known as "The White House" -- as a home base for their indiscretions.

The Vikings can't even acquire first-class miscreants.

At this point you would assume that "Zygmunt" is an old Yiddish word meaning "Are you kidding me?"

You would be wrong. "Zygmunt" is a German name related to "Sigmund." It was popularized by psychology pioneer and Marvin Gaye lyricist Sigmund Freud. (I know this because I attend the University of Google.)

Because Freud made famous the study of the libido, Zygmunt/Sigmund is the perfect name for an owner presiding over the franchise known for the abuses of Arctic Blast and the escapades of Al & Alma's Caligulan Adventures.

Last week, we missed only Randy Moss' talent. Today, we miss him as a role model. Oh, for the days when our biggest problems were end zone end-wiggling.

Apparently, Vikings players thought the motto of Al & Alma's was "What happens here, stays here." Instead, lurid tales regarding our full-contact freaks will circulate for years, and the worst of them will be those that are true.

Today, fresh from their retreat, the Wilfs will question whether they could have spent $600 million on a better Minnesota product, like, oh, say, Spam.

Seriously, folks, it's time for the Wilfs to hire consultants other than Jerry Rhome and Foge Fazio. It's time for them to hire Donald Trump to utter the words these sick puppies all deserve to hear:

"You're fired."

"Ummm, now about that special session to legislate public funding for a new Viking stadium."Zygi Wilf

 

[cstu]

Trainwreck, eh?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Trainwreck, eh?

We're not in the offseason anymore.And I'd submit to you that the Vikings are still a trainwreck. Fortunately for them, the teams they've been playing have been a plane crash.

 

[Steve in Minneapolis]

I have been waiting for this to get bumped...I am thrilled with my teams recent run of success, but I would offer you this stat: 34% vs 74%These are the winning percentages of the teams that the Vikings have beat (34%) versus the win percentage for teams that they have lost to this year (74%). We are doing a good job of beating up on the patsies in our division (including GB and Det twice) but we have certainly not performed against the good teams.I am grateful that my team is having success on the field...but I stand behind what I said back in February.

 

[Andy Dufresne]